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The Cryptkeeper

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Agreed- this isn't a workplace/school situation in which you can claim a mental health day.
To be admitted into mental health care in a hospital takes quite a lot for it to happen.
In any situation using the 'mental health is a cop out' is cold.
Well, respectfully I disagree.

And I never claimed Patton has done the same. But he wasn't in a mental health facility before he got caught. It's the ramifications of his actions that are wearing on him, not the actions themselves. Hence, I am dubious as to his motives for seeking treatment

I don't wish the guy harm but I have no sympathy for him.
 

Rhayader

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Well, respectfully I disagree.

And I never claimed Patton has done the same. But he wasn't in a mental health facility before he got caught. It's the ramifications of his actions that are wearing on him, not the actions themselves. Hence, I am dubious as to his motives for seeking treatment

I don't wish the guy harm but I have no sympathy for him.
If he does legitimately need treatment, what do his motives matter? And wouldn't getting 'caught' be a more likely trigger for serious mental health problems than not getting caught?

I'm not sympathetic to his plight either, but it seems pretty reasonable that if you do blow up your own life and career, you may not handle that situation very well, and you should be free to seek help for it separate to and regardless of what you did to others.
 

The Cryptkeeper

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If he does legitimately need treatment, what do his motives matter? And wouldn't getting 'caught' be a more likely trigger for serious mental health problems than not getting caught?

I'm not sympathetic to his plight either, but it seems pretty reasonable that if you do blow up your own life and career, you may not handle that situation very well, and you should be free to seek help for it separate to and regardless of what you did to others.
Of course he's free to seek help. And he should do so.

Beyond that and hoping that he doesn't hurt himself I just don't care what happens to him. There seems to be less f***s given for his victims than there is for Patton and that is what is probably annoying me the most. He's a sex pest, not a shoplifter and the virtue signaling about his wellbeing (by many) is completely over the top in my view.

Cheers for the measured response.
 

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Milkshaker

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Can we please stop using the term 'victim' when describing someone who saw a picture of a dick on the internet?
Interestingly these women involved appear very IT savvy. One I know of has her own nude site. Despite this they obviously have not discovered the block number function. One unsolicited dic pic - block number easy. I block marketing pain in the ass calls nearly every day.
 
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Tuck In

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Is it not simple:

John chases some women over a number of years mostly using his phone and messaging services.
John includes pics of himself undressed and aroused (?) in some of these pics.
Some of the recipients did not ask for, expect or agree to receive said pics.
John did not desist when requested and may have become more insistent in tone and nature of his pics.

All of the above is.morally wrong and breaks some laws. John is the wrongdoer irrespective of the livelihood of the recipients and irrespective if some.post pictures of themselves elsewhere. He should and will be punished by the law and his employer. No-one outside the law, the recipients, the employer and John need to be involved in these outcomes.

John also needs some support and guidance to understand why he thought this was appropriate behavior and to ensure he never does this again irrespective of his punishments.

Others shouting irrelevant, ambiguous and dubious messages from the sidelines need to ask themselves why and consider holding back.

Anyway, football.....
 

mick

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Interestingly these women involved appear very it savvy. One I know of has her own nude site. Despite this they obviously have not discovered the block number function. One unsolicited dic pic - block number easy. I block marketing pain in the ass calls nearly every day.
One of the victims rightly points out that it shouldn't be her obligation to block a caller, it is the callers' responsibility to not send unwanted pictures. It does beg the question of why she continued the conversation for at least a month, especially if she repeatedly told him to stop sending pics, and he continued to do it. Look, it's just speculation on my part, but do not think she asked him to stop sending pics, after all, she did say he ended contact once it became clear she was not going to reciprocate his nude pics for free nude pics of herself. So in that case in particular it looks like he was only sending nude pics so she would send some. * this only applies to one of the victims. There is no accounting for the many other times Patton has sent allegedly Dic Pics, the victims haven't been publicly forthcoming with the details, and they should feel no obligation to be compelled to unless they are telling the Police.

Exposure of the genitals alone does not usually constitute an offence and isn't considered wrong by most people unless accompanied by an indecent act or deliberate intent to offend. That's why the guy flashing at the train station trying to scare a kid or woman alone is a pervert, while a woman breastfeeding is just trying to feed a kid shouldn't be considered offensive. I'm not suggesting Patton is at the scale of a woman breastfeeding, but from the details the most outspoken victim has provided, he isn't a train station flasher either.

I don't think people are overly concerned with Pattons lack of modesty, I think where it touches a nerve is the thought that he is deliberately trying to provoke, shock or offend people. Or maybe his sense of entitlement and disregard for others, that's what bothers me the most.
Is it not simple:

John chases some women over a number of years mostly using his phone and messaging services.
John includes pics of himself undressed and aroused (?) in some of these pics.
Some of the recipients did not ask for, expect or agree to receive said pics.


All of the above is.morally wrong and breaks some laws. John is the wrongdoer irrespective of the livelihood of the recipients and irrespective if some.post pictures of themselves elsewhere. He should and will be punished by the law and his employer. No-one outside the law, the recipients, the employer and John need to be involved in these outcomes.

John also needs some support and guidance to understand why he thought this was appropriate behavior and to ensure he never does this again irrespective of his punishments.

.
It's awesome that you can see the issue so clearly and without any doubt.

On the information I have seen it is not that simple, I see moral ambiguity everywhere.

Nothing wrong with John using his phone and messaging services to court women.
Nothing wrong with sending dressed and nude pictures.(unless it is child exploitation, beastiality, sexual servitude/violence etc) It depends on the circumstances. If someone only complained after the fact and didn't tell John he shouldn't be sending such filth, at the time, then John might have thought it they were consenting. (Yeah, I know, he should know better)

You might think evidence is pretty clear that some of the victims did not ask for, expect or agree to receive said pics. And I don't disagree, that is a fair assumption to make, but would you mind showing me how you arrived at this conclusion? All the newspapers/Media I've read just repeat the claim that he sent the nude pics ( I'm not claiming an encyclopedic knowledge all media on this issue - I might have missed some). Some of the victims say it made them feel "uncomfortable" but it doesn't say they asked him to stop or told him it made them feel uncomfortable.

"John did not desist when requested" Of the complaints I have seen from the victims, only one ( a chat log not media)says she told John to stop, he abused her for it, but he didn't send her another pic according to the chat log I saw. This alone is enough for me to want him punished, he actually abused her for telling him to stop. But from what I saw he did stop.

While its true he may have become more insistent in tone and nature of his pics, what is leading you to this conclusion? From what I have been told, he has been doing this sort of stuff since 2017, there was no mention of escalation. Five years is a long time to be sending unsolicited dick pics and not running into one person who would go public. I'll bet If I sent a dick pic to my ex, it would be on the coles bulletin board with my name and disparaging remarks on it for everyone to laugh at within the week. If not Coles at least one of her scrapbooking forums would get a good giggle out of it.

I could not agree more with "John also needs some support and guidance to understand why he thought this was appropriate behavior and to ensure he never does this again irrespective of his punishments."

The victims need support as well, particularly if they have been emotionally hurt by Pattons actions.
 

Tuck In

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Mick, you are extremely persistent here. I'm not.

Ive drawn my conclusions from what I've read, heard and inferred no doubt you have too.
I'm happy with what I have arrived at and what I have said. I have no further skin in the game and wish for it to be resolved for all parties as best as is possible. No need to reply to me, thanks.
 

mick

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Persistent? - Thank you, Tuck In, that's generous, It'd be fair to say I'm bordering on obsessive. I'm still bothered that opinions, some false ones, continue to be posted as facts when it appears to have stuffed someone's life up. Stupid of me really, it's the internet, hardly a rare occurrence, and me posting walls of text trying to point it out just looks like I'm either defending Patton or victim-blaming and does nothing to limit the spread of harmful, inaccurate information.
You and others have already made your decision on Patton's degree of guilt and the veracity of the information you received on the matter and me pointing out inconsistencies or errors won't change anyone's mind and could be promoting further victim-blaming.
I'm done.
 

TazHawk15

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There is no proof JP is Quilty of anything yet and no one knows either way. As I have posted earlier this trial and hanging by social media is shameful and disgusting. So till investigation is concluded and have the facts one and all should shut the F*** up.
Maybe he is guilty of knitting instead. :D
 

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Milkshaker

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and people wonder why the victims of sexual harassment never speak out (or if they do, it is normally many years after). Your entire life is critiqued to try to find a possible argument that you were ‘asking for it’ or ‘deserved’ it.
The opposite is never questioning a complaint and innocent people getting hung drawn and quartered.

A recent incident down here was a women returning home from a big night out (inebriated). Husband located semen on her dress the next morning. She indicated she must have been assaulted in cab on way home as she could not remember much about the lift home. Police called and they bring the cabby in.
Young, fit cabby produces cab camera footage of consensual oral.

If the cabby had not had that footage I hate to think of the trauma he would have gone through with his dna on her dress in all it's glory.

Hence I will defend Patton to an extent and question the intentions of his accusers (not by way of determining innocence or guilt, that is someone else's job). Wealthy, high profile footballer from a successful club, ripe for the picking in the form of a payout. It's not like it does not happen.
 

Stratton24

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and people wonder why the victims of sexual harassment never speak out (or if they do, it is normally many years after). Your entire life is critiqued to try to find a possible argument that you were ‘asking for it’ or ‘deserved’ it.
they should be going straight to the police to press charges - then once the law deals with it if a high profile case then speak to the media if it helps the person or educates others, but really bad look to sell your story for quick cash / media attention
 

rei154

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The opposite is never questioning a complaint and innocent people getting hung drawn and quartered.

A recent incident down here was a women returning home from a big night out (inebriated). Husband located semen on her dress the next morning. She indicated she must have been assaulted in cab on way home as she could not remember much about the lift home. Police called and they bring the cabby in.
Young, fit cabby produces cab camera footage of consensual oral.

If the cabby had not had that footage I hate to think of the trauma he would have gone through with his dna on her dress in all it's glory.

Hence I will defend Patton to an extent and question the intentions of his accusers (not by way of determining innocence or guilt, that is someone else's job). Wealthy, high profile footballer from a successful club, ripe for the picking in the form of a payout. It's not like it does not happen.
So the aim is to find a balance- something we don't necessarily have in this society.

This board has been so dichotomous throughout this process I'd say it's a pretty accurate representation on society. Hypothetically (not related to the JP situation) if you were raped and you came online to see half the population calling you a liar and saying that in some way your treatment was justified because you work in an industry where you objectify yourself how do you think you'd want to proceed?

I don't doubt that situations like what happened with that cab driver happen all the time (and I'm damned glad he was able to look after himself), but I think currently our system is tilted towards the accuser when it comes to these cases.
 

Milkshaker

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So the aim is to find a balance- something we don't necessarily have in this society.

This board has been so dichotomous throughout this process I'd say it's a pretty accurate representation on society. Hypothetically (not related to the JP situation) if you were raped and you came online to see half the population calling you a liar and saying that in some way your treatment was justified because you work in an industry where you objectify yourself how do you think you'd want to proceed?

I don't doubt that situations like what happened with that cab driver happen all the time (and I'm damned glad he was able to look after himself), but I think currently our system is tilted towards the accuser when it comes to these cases.
I can't speak for the rest of Australia but here (Tassie) all complaints of a sexual nature are taken seriously. Serious sexual complaints are required to be reported by Police to the Department of Public Prosecution within in 48 hours for recording and advice. Victims can give evidence via video link so they do not have to be in court with the accused. There is a well resourced sexual assault support service.

It is often the defence solicitors who bring up behaviour prior to an incident or 'character' to reduce a victims credibility. A process that is absolutely stressful for victims.

However, having worked in a prosecutorial capacity for a few years I can assure you there are a lot of vexatious complaints.

Al I hope for is Patton gets fair go which becomes increasingly difficult these days when the social media beast gets involved. My gut feeling is, he is a dumb patsy but I stand to be corrected if the facts presented say otherwise.
 

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