Welcome to Hawthorn - Tom Mitchell - 2018 Brownlow medalist

[tommyk72]

Sam wasnt always a great decision maker and great kick. It was and still is the hard work he puts in on the track. He always had a great ability to get the ball but his attributes have come through dedication and great work ethic
He was always striving to get better season after season and was probably was his own worst critic. Its what made the great player he is today

This. Some people seem to be comparing Mitchell after 5ish seasons with Mitchell after 8-10. Sammy was not always as good as he is today. If he was, he would have gone number one. It was a slow progression to being one of the best in the game. I'm not game to say M2 will get to the level of M1, but i'm sure as s**t not going to say he definitely won't.

 

[MacMace]

This. Some people seem to be comparing Mitchell after 5ish seasons with Mitchell after 8-10. Sammy was not always as good as he is today. If he was, he would have gone number one. It was a slow progression to being one of the best in the game. I'm not game to say M2 will get to the level of M1, but i'm sure as s**t not going to say he definitely won't.

Completely agree, which is why I asked the question initially.

It does surprise me that so many people completely discount the fact that M2 could, and I don’t understate ‘could’ be at the same level or better than M1.

At the same age and same years played it seems to me that M2 is already pushing hard to challenge M1 when he was 23/24.

 

[bungholes_premiers]

Completely agree, which is why I asked the question initially.

It does surprise me that so many people completely discount the fact that M2 could, and I don’t understate ‘could’ be at the same level or better than M1.

At the same age and same years played it seems to me that M2 is already pushing hard to challenge M1 when he was 23/24.

M1 and M2 ? lol thats so sad.

They've got different first names ya know - and in fact each is only 3 letters long

 

[MacMace]

Just trying to maintain thread continuity, well at least that’s my excuse.

 

[flinchfree]

..................
It does surprise me that so many people completely discount the fact that M2 could, and I don’t understate ‘could’ be at the same level or better than M1.
.....................

'So many people' here think Sam as one of the very greatest Hawks of all time.
Perhaps our best ever on-baller. Hall of Fame. Top of the tops.
Asking the board to accept a guy who has played 9 games for the club, to be on track for eclipsing that - is a touch rich.
Could he do it? Sure. My wife also might give me a free pass for a night with Jennifer Aniston should we happen upon her and Justin at a vineyard in Nappa, and we can get them sufficiently drunk.
Silly discussion at this point.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

'So many people' here think Sam as one of the very greatest of Hawks of all time.
Perhaps our best ever on-baller. Hall of Fame. Top of the tops.
Asking the board to accept a guy who has played 9 games for the club, to be on track for eclipsing that - is a touch rich.
Could he do it? Sure. My wife also might give me a free pass for a night with Jennifer Aniston should be happen upon her and Justin at a vineyard in Nappa, and we can get them sufficiently drunk.
Silly discussion at this point.

The trick with the free pass is to aim a little lower/local.

I had my free pass as one of the local news presenters and my wife and I ran into her at a party. Was quite interesting watching the speed of renegotiation.

 

[MacMace]

'So many people' here think Sam as one of the very greatest of Hawks of all time.
Perhaps our best ever on-baller. Hall of Fame. Top of the tops.
Asking the board to accept a guy who has played 9 games for the club, to be on track for eclipsing that - is a touch rich.
Could he do it? Sure. My wife also might give me a free pass for a night with Jennifer Aniston should be happen upon her and Justin at a vineyard in Nappa, and we can get them sufficiently drunk.
Silly discussion at this point.

1. I have never disputed that Sam is an outstanding player or one of the best Hawks of all time (although that is a huge call).
2. My initial question simply raised the possibility of whether Tom could get to the heights of Sam, pointing out that statistics based on current form compared to a similar age for Sam suggests that he could. My personal opinion is that he will give him a good run for his money based on his current form over the course of his career (not 9 games).
3. Do you have any statistical evidence that backs up your claims against the following:

a) Past instances when you wife has provided you with a free pass.

b) Number of times you have visited vineyards in Nappa.

c) Number of sexual encounters you have had with women the calibre of Jen Aniston.​

Please don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying you wouldn’t be capable of hooking up with Jen, I just like to consider all the facts.​

 

[Brishawk]

The trick with the free pass is to aim a little lower/local.

I had my free pass as one of the local news presenters and my wife and I ran into her at a party. Was quite interesting watching the speed of renegotiation.

ITs moments like this for which smart phones have the ability to record video hahaha

 

[flinchfree]

1. I have never disputed that Sam is an outstanding player or one of the best Hawks of all time (although that is a huge call).
2. My initial question simply raised the possibility of whether Tom could get to the heights of Sam, pointing out that statistics based on current form compared to a similar age for Sam suggests that he could. My personal opinion is that he will give him a good run for his money based on his current form over the course of his career (not 9 games).
3. Do you have any statistical evidence that backs up your claims against the following:

a) Past instances when you wife has provided you with a free pass.

b) Number of times you have visited vineyards in Nappa.

c) Number of sexual encounters you have had with women the calibre of Jen Aniston.​

Please don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying you wouldn’t be capable of hooking up with Jen, I just like to consider all the facts.​

1. Not a huge call at all. Monty top 20, likely top 10, discussion for top 5.
2. Statistics are for people who can't use the eye test and need to validate their argument. Tom is in career best form right now, never been better, and still doesn't put other players in position to succeed in the same very unique way that Sam does. He may develop even more to be sure, but would need to for the discussion to even make sense. Racking up the most possessions ever in the history of the game would not in of itself help his cause all that much, but what results from them is the kicker.
3.
a) I have a standing free pass for Debra Messing but think I could swing the change to Jen. Wife gets Dave Mathews.
b) Been to Nappa twice, we'd retire there if my wife had her way.
c) Never been knocked back by a girl who felt she was too hot for me. That's called knowing your lane. Jen and I are nearly the same age, we both have blue eyes, and we similarly spent our 20's hanging out with Friends talking crap and not getting married.
Justin's just lucky my wife snatched me first.

 

[James Buchanan]

Coaches votes....

COLLINGWOOD V HAWTHORN
10 Pendlebury (Coll), 5 Howe (Coll), 5 Mitchell (Haw), 5 Treloar (Coll), 4 Adams (Coll), 1 Sidebottom (Coll)

Those numbers are very interesting.

Pendlebury got 2x5, Adams got 1x4, Sidebottom got 1x1

Howe, Mitchel and Treloar - 2 got 2+3, 1 got 1+4.

I wonder how it went, based on the comments on the night I wouldn't be surprised if Bucks votes were:

Pendlebury 5
Adams 4
Howe/Treloar 3/2 - cannot tell
Mitchell 1

And Clarko's votes were:

Pendlebury 5
Mitchell 4
Howe/Treloar 3/2 - cannot tell
Sidebottom 1

 

[Mitchell Madness]

I love the metres gained stat, because it can be twisted even more than your basic statistics.

it doesnt indication to what i call "net numbers."
simply, it says, the ball travelled this far from the player. it doesnt tell us if the resulting posession started a chain, if it was part of the chain etc. It also doesnt give indication to where on the ground. If a player took 5 shots at goal from the square, it is at most 50m. hardly a great deal on the stat sheet. you also have players who will go backwards 50m to allow a switch of play. thats a big loss from one disposal, but often results in a score

then you have players who bomb the ball and can "gain" 60-70m, but it doesnt show the turn over that is so common, often resulting in a goal the other way, and a loss of metres

 

[Verhawk]

I love the metres gained stat, because it can be twisted even more than your basic statistics.

it doesnt indication to what i call "net numbers."
simply, it says, the ball travelled this far from the player. it doesnt tell us if the resulting posession started a chain, if it was part of the chain etc. It also doesnt give indication to where on the ground. If a player took 5 shots at goal from the square, it is at most 50m. hardly a great deal on the stat sheet. you also have players who will go backwards 50m to allow a switch of play. thats a big loss from one disposal, but often results in a score

then you have players who bomb the ball and can "gain" 60-70m, but it doesnt show the turn over that is so common, often resulting in a goal the other way, and a loss of metres

G'day I love the fact you don't need to change your avatar name there fantastic.
Like you saw this all coming. Hehehe
Yeah I don't get all these metres gained & other useless stats etc.
To me its see ball, get ball & do the best you possibly can with it.

 

[BloodySwan]

Mitchell will be 24 at the end of the month. He was told that he didn't tackle enough, he worked on that and was one of the Swannies best tacklers. He was then told he wasn't a very good kick, he worked on that and is a pretty decent kick now. Currently he's being told he's not damaging enough - watch this space.

 

[MacMace]

1. Not a huge call at all. Monty top 20, likely top 10, discussion for top 5.
2. Statistics are for people who can't use the eye test and need to validate their argument. Tom is in career best form right now, never been better, and still doesn't put other players in position to succeed in the same very unique way that Sam does. He may develop even more to be sure, but would need to for the discussion to even make sense. Racking up the most possessions ever in the history of the game would not in of itself help his cause all that much, but what results from them is the kicker.
3.
a) I have a standing free pass for Debra Messing but think I could swing the change to Jen. Wife gets Dave Mathews.
b) Been to Nappa twice, we'd retire there if my wife had her way.
c) Never been knocked back by a girl who felt she was too hot for me. That's called knowing your lane. Jen and I are nearly the same age, we both have blue eyes, and we similarly spent our 20's hanging out with Friends talking crap and not getting married.
Justin's just lucky my wife snatched me first.

1. Problem is we have a history of champions; there are currently 35 members of the Hawks Hall of Fame and 7 legends, Kennedy Snr, Matthews, Arthur, Tuck, Parkin, Hudson and Dunstall. So it is a pretty big call, particularly if it is suggested that he is in the top 5 or 10 of all time.

2. Eye tests are good, but they are also very subjective, which is why stats are important to strengthen the argument. These aren’t mutually exclusive, I think you need both.

In 2004 Sam was rated 65 in disposals av 18.6, 74.2% disposal eff, 78.8% time on ground, 11.1 av contested possessions, 7.7 av uncontested possessions, 6 av clearances, 2.8 av centre clearances, 2.3 av marks, 0 av contested marks, 3 av tackles and 0.4 av score assists.

In 2017 Tom is rated 1 for disposals av 35.9, 69% disposal eff, 86.2% time on ground, 15.3 av contested possessions, 21.3 av uncontested possessions, 5.6 av clearances, 2.4 av centre clearances, 5.8 av marks, 0.1 av contested marks, 7.6 av tackles and 0.4 av goal assists.

Disposal efficiency seems to be the main area that he needs to work on. But given the massive numbers he pulls it’s probably no surprise that this is lower.​

3. Given the facts presented (all very strong arguments) I can’t dispute that you may have up to a 1% chance achieving your goal.

I believe Tom stands a much higher statistical chance of giving Sam and other legends of our club a run for their money. For the benefit of our club let’s hope this is true.

 

[Nugett]

Imagine what he could do, if he had somebody to help him from time to time. Come on Roughy join the midfield, give old mate Tom a hand with that big body of yours

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

The trick with the free pass is to aim a little lower/local.

I had my free pass as one of the local news presenters and my wife and I ran into her at a party. Was quite interesting watching the speed of renegotiation.

Always get the wife to list her passes firstly all of which are lofty unobtainable Hollywood hunks, then list your own with the local checkout chick with the rocking body and a cute smile last then wait for the scramble to renegotiate.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Did anyone read the Titus OReilly article today comparing Tom Mitchell to the one Council working digging a hole with a shovel whilst 17 other Hawks players look on? Very droll!

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Another game, another 30+ touches.

Got a giggle in the Luke Parker thread on the $wines board, some flog there said that Mitchell wouldn't make a difference for them and was only a 'handy' player and then bemoans that we didn't pay enough for him. Can't have it both ways there, you campaigner. You flogs told us all year he was only your fifth best midfielder - so a first round pick is technically overs for that kind of player. As it stands I think it was unders and Tom was a bargain for a gun player - but I have the benefit of not being a flog $ydney fan.

 

[MasterSamurai]

Another game, another 30+ touches.

Got a giggle in the Luke Parker thread on the $wines board, some flog there said that Mitchell wouldn't make a difference for them and was only a 'handy' player and then bemoans that we didn't pay enough for him. Can't have it both ways there, you campaigner. You flogs told us all year he was only your fifth best midfielder - so a first round pick is technically overs for that kind of player. As it stands I think it was unders and Tom was a bargain for a gun player - but I have the benefit of not being a flog $ydney fan.

to build a youngish midfield, I would take Tommy Gun over both Parker and Hannerbury

 

[CD Xbow]

My wife also might give me a free pass for a night with Jennifer Aniston should we happen upon her and Justin at a vineyard in Nappa, and we can get them sufficiently drunk.

Your wife would do that? Gee, she's very obliging.

 

[SSSSSS]

Parker and DownHilleberry have gone backwards this year. It was easy going profiting off Mitchell's hardwork. Now that he's gone it's all left to Joey and he's feeling the heat too.

Parker is a deadset B-grader now. He's gone backwards faster than Kieran Jack.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Sydney's 5th best midfielder ? Yeah ok.

 

[SSSSSS]

Mitchell was a steal and helps balance the ledger if the JOM trade doesn't work out (I still have 100% faith it will work out well).

Based on output Mitchell is well worth the amount we paid for JOM and JOM is about the Mitchell level in terms of talent and the risk.

 

[MrPremiership]

Swans midfielders go missing in tough games. That's fact. Nothing more surer in life like tax, death and that.

Tom Mitchell was not their 5th best midfielder.....their 3-7 start isn't due to losing Tom, but part of it. Mostly due to having no depth due to Buddy 9yr deal. Lucky they have academies otherwise even worse depth without Mills and Heeney.

Tom is just a gun. Almost 24, played 80 games and now working with Clarko/Ratts/Hodge/Silk. This kid will only get better too.

All Australian this year.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Comeon now, not even the Sydney fans believed Mitchell was their 5th midfielder, despite how many times that utter flog Healey said it.

No one believes Jack is a superior midfielder to Mitchell. It's a laughable thought.

The others I'd be happy to accept as they are all top quality players. This year though Mitchell is playing better than all of them so far.