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Judd2Sewell

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Would you consider picking a draftee in the fourth round who never plays a game to be a failure?

Don't judge the decisions by your own expectations of them, judge them against something real.
Depends on where they are picked. Draftees aren't getting paid 500k though.

I'd say in all they were both failures, though they weren't particularly harmful ones.
 

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rogiebear93

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Depends on where they are picked. Draftees aren't getting paid 500k though.

I'd say in all they were both failures, though they weren't particularly harmful ones.
Again, we were committed to pay that money and we didn't overreach in doing it. It didn't set us back in any tangible way, so it's not a failure just a non-event.
 

Judd2Sewell

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Again, we were committed to pay that money and we didn't overreach in doing it. It didn't set us back in any tangible way, so it's not a failure just a non-event.
Do you think we traded them in thinking we would have got more out of them both than we did? Regardless of what we paid in salary or picks.

If yes, then you have your answer. Thankfully we didn't give up much so it wasn't particularly damaging.
 

BJK#5

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Sorry but out of Sculley and Patton we got nothing out of Patton and one average to okay year and one terrible year out of Sculley.

I know we didn't pay much for them but one can't really say it was anything other than a failure.
Scully gave us 35 games on a wing when we needed them badly, we had no one else to play at all. He was fine, not great but not anywhere near as bad as some make out.

Patton was a bust but you can't win them all. Some people really gotta move on.
 

Pessimistic

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Do you think we traded them in thinking we would have got more out of them both than we did? Regardless of what we paid in salary or picks.

If yes, then you have your answer. Thankfully we didn't give up much so it wasn't particularly damaging.
It’s more that we seemed to do GWS a huge favour with salary cap, with not much in return
 

rogiebear93

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Do you think we traded them in thinking we would have got more out of them both than we did? Regardless of what we paid in salary or picks.

If yes, then you have your answer. Thankfully we didn't give up much so it wasn't particularly damaging.
You're not weighing it against what we paid in terms of picks. Do you really think we traded in players for our last picks in the draft expecting them to be stars?

Either way, if you judge them against the comparable 4th round picks we definitely got more out of Scully than whatever his drafted replacement was. Patton not really but it doesn't matter.

You're an NBA fan, this is where contracts are going.
 

grumbleguts

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As I said I vaguely remember them putting him in the magoos 2 see how he went against men. He was actually an under 19 player at the time and only 18 years old when he debuted in a final in 1982. So it may well have been less games in the reserves. Perhaps far less. I'm pretty sure he played at least one.
He played in the reserves in 1981 and some in 82.
 

Simon Crawshay

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A draftèe is on minimum wage. We paid these 2 a lot of cash. Scully may have helped us win a game or 2 but Patton was an absolute train wreck.
Exactly.

Nothing more real than cash and we were paying these two $500k+ a year compared to what, $80k a year for a 4th rounder?

Its not all about draft picks it's also about managing your salary cap so you can go after quality (note I said quality) free agents. Paying these two over $2 million a year combined over those two years wouldn't have helped with that.
 

Brishawk

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A draftèe is on minimum wage. We paid these 2 a lot of cash. Scully may have helped us win a game or 2 but Patton was an absolute train wreck.
The cash we paid them helped us meet league minimum so they kind of did us a favour 😂

the return on those dollars otherwise wasn’t great though (not terrible for Scully as you say).
 

rogiebear93

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Exactly.

Nothing more real than cash and we were paying these two $500k+ a year compared to what, $80k a year for a 4th rounder?

Its not all about draft picks it's also about managing your salary cap so you can go after quality (note I said quality) free agents. Paying these two over $2 million a year combined over those two years wouldn't have helped with that.
In those two years, who were we going to pay that additional $840k a season to meet the minimum player payments mandated by the league?

What other free agents were available in that time frame that were a) gettable for us and b) better than Scully and Patton?

There's a lot of non-existent hypotheticals in that argument.
 

Simon Crawshay

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Scully gave us 35 games on a wing when we needed them badly, we had no one else to play at all. He was fine, not great but not anywhere near as bad as some make out.

Patton was a bust but you can't win them all. Some people really gotta move on.
Sculley was okayish in 2019 but he stunk the joint up in 2020.

He was a non entity out on the field every time he played.
 

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Brishawk

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Do you think we traded them in thinking we would have got more out of them both than we did? Regardless of what we paid in salary or picks.

If yes, then you have your answer. Thankfully we didn't give up much so it wasn't particularly damaging.
I don’t think anyone thinks they were an on field success. Scully was good year one and I think nonfootball Factors diminished his onfield contribution in 2020. Patton was a bust. But the damaged caused to our list and cap is negligible. At most we carry their salary on the list into next year but that shouldn’t stop us landing a recruit.
 

LMGjr

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I don't see the point in looking backwards to compare who and what we got last year re: Phillips, compared to "mistakes" from the years beforehand.

Patton, Scully etc are done, so why rehash the hell out it?

Every club makes mistakes; we've proven over 50yrs that we rectify our mistakes quicker then pretty much everyone else.

So far Phillips is a positive.
 

Judd2Sewell

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You're not weighing it against what we paid in terms of picks. Do you really think we traded in players for our last picks in the draft expecting them to be stars?

Either way, if you judge them against the comparable 4th round picks we definitely got more out of Scully than whatever his drafted replacement was. Patton not really but it doesn't matter.

You're an NBA fan, this is where contracts are going.
I did, which is why I said that I think it wasn't damaging.

Look I think we'd do the trades again given the potential upside. But we didn't get to see it in the end, which is why I think it was ultimately a failure.
 

Simon Crawshay

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I don't see the point in looking backwards to compare who and what we got last year re: Phillips, compared to "mistakes" from the years beforehand.

Patton, Scully etc are done, so why rehash the hell out it?

Every club makes mistakes; we've proven over 50yrs that we rectify our mistakes quicker then pretty much everyone else.

So far Phillips is a positive.
Don't get me wrong I am very positive on Phillips, IMOH he could potentially be a 200 game player and Best and Fairest winner for the club he is that good.

My issue is the viewpoint that Patton and Sculley weren't failures purely because they didn't cost much in terms of trades.

Based on their playing output relative to their pay packets I struggle to understand this point of view.

It is also worth remembering that whilst players are on the list they are consuming additional resources at the club other than money such as one on one training from line coaches, specialist medical treatment, etc, etc.
 

LMGjr

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Don't get me wrong I am very positive on Phillips, IMOH he could potentially be a 200 game player and Best and Fairest winner for the club he is that good.

My issue is the viewpoint that Patton and Sculley weren't failures purely because they didn't cost much in terms of trades.

Based on their playing output relative to their pay packets I struggle to understand this point of view.

It is also worth remembering that whilst players are on the list they are consuming additional resources at the club other than money such as one on one training from line coaches, specialist medical treatment, etc, etc.
Mate I hear you, but what's done is done, all that matters now is how move forward.

I'm not against people wanting to talk about or compare past trades, but is there a better thread for that particular discussion?

This is a thread about Phillips, not past trades.
 

Simon Crawshay

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Mate I hear you, but what's done is done, all that matters now is how move forward.

I'm not against people wanting to talk about or compare past trades, but is there a better thread for that particular discussion?

This is a thread about Phillips, not past trades.
Fair point.
 

BJK#5

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Phillips looks to be a good role player which every club needs.
I don't expect he will be a superstar or match winner but will be solid for us.
I would take Issie every day of the week though over him.
Personally think he will be above a role player for us, agree not at superstar level but I see him having the ability to be a really important piece for us for years to come.

If he proves he can add having an impact at some centre bounces that will be massive.

Elite runner that can play wing, on ball and HFF would be massive.
 

lyger

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Personally think he will be above a role player for us, agree not at superstar level but I see him having the ability to be a really important piece for us for years to come.

If he proves he can add having an impact at some centre bounces that will be massive.

Elite runner that can play wing, on ball and HFF would be massive.
Agree. As a pure winger not at Smith’s level, but as a versatile mid that can play inside and on flanks as well, could be a huge addition. We should also get many years of service as well.
 

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