Player Watch #34: Jack Graham

[ReaperX]

You have obviously watched him a lot as a junior to make that call?

Honestly I just think he's got a good chance at it because of his size at his age, if we could get 30-40 games under his belt by the time he's 20, it'll put him in really good stead to be a major contributor for us in the future. By all accounts he's a younger, taller, and better built version of Anthony Miles.

Not many kids have "ready-to-go" bodies at 18 years old, but the ones that do, generally end up playing pretty early on. I'm not sure of his exact size, but at a guess I think he's like 182 or 183, and he looks well over 80kgs from the pics I've seen, which is a mans body, not a kids.

FWIW, Daniel Rioli debuted last year at sub 70kgs.

Obviously there was a reason he slipped to a pick in the 50's, but from what I've read, injuries may have played a significant part in that happening, so I'm not sure. In any case, your draft position means very little once you get to the club, because if you can impress the coaches and show you're ready to go and contribute to the team, his draft position will be irrelevant.

 

[RememberRoyce]

Honestly I just think he's got a good chance at it because of his size at his age, if we could get 30-40 games under his belt by the time he's 20, it'll put him in really good stead to be a major contributor for us in the future. By all accounts he's a younger, taller, and better built version of Anthony Miles.

Not many kids have "ready-to-go" bodies at 18 years old, but the ones that do, generally end up playing pretty early on. I'm not sure of his exact size, but at a guess I think he's like 182 or 183, and he looks well over 80kgs from the pics I've seen, which is a mans body, not a kids.

FWIW, Daniel Rioli debuted last year at sub 70kgs.

Obviously there was a reason he slipped to a pick in the 50's, but from what I've read, injuries may have played a significant part in that happening, so I'm not sure. In any case, your draft position means very little once you get to the club, because if you can impress the coaches and show you're ready to go and contribute to the team, his draft position will be irrelevant.

I agree with all of that. What I find difficult to accept is your assumption that he's going to be a gun is based on these details only. All internet hearsay? U18 highlights package?? Lets wait till we see a few nab cup games before we line him up at the first bounce of the season. Our starting midfield will have our 'elite' tap ruckman Hampson though right?

If he has a first 10 games like Wines, you can come back with a big 'told ya so!'

 

[ReaperX]

I agree with all of that.

Okay cool, off to a good start!

What I find difficult to accept is your assumption that he's going to be a gun is based on these details only. All internet hearsay? U18 highlights package?? Lets wait till we see a few nab cup games before we line him up at the first bounce of the season.

I've never claimed to be a fortune teller mate, I just said I had a gut feel about it, and it's based on the following factors:

1) Our willingness to blood young talent early in the season over the past 2-3 years.
2) His size and strength in comparison to many draftees his age, and draftees that we've blooded previously in early parts of the year, eg. Rioli and Short in 2016.
3) What I've seen of him in his first pre-season with us, and also his junior highlights playing against senior, big-bodied players at state level.

Is there something wrong with forming an early opinion on a bloke based on these factors? Or is it only acceptable when that opinion is cynical and negative?

Our starting midfield will have our 'elite' tap ruckman Hampson though right?

I'm assuming you're referencing my recent post from the "Best 22 for Round 1" thread (otherwise this is just a strange thing to say ), in which I pointed out how I feel like the 3rd man up rule will give a significant advantage to a guy like Hampson, because it will enhance his strengths (his tap work in the ruck) and make those skills more valuable.

Two things;

Firstly, I actually have Hampson starting on the bench in my Best 22, and Nankervis starting on the field. So you're wrong there already, because he's not in my starting side!

Secondly, do you disagree that Hampson's tap work is elite, or at least very close to it? If so that's fine, but even the most ardent of Hampson haters rarely criticizes his ability in the actual ruck position, the hate is largely due to him not following up around the ground, and being a bit s**t in marking contests.

For those who didn't see the post, I said that Hampson still has weaknesses that he needs to work on, but that the rule change for banning 3rd man ups around the ground, will make him much more valuable to us in the ruck position, due to his elite tap work becoming more important around the ground.

I'm not exactly what you'd call a Hampson fan myself mate, but his tap work has always been very very good. Don't think too many would disagree with that sentiment honestly!

If he has a first 10 games like Wines, you can come back with a big 'told ya so!'

Sure, I could... but I wouldn't, because I'm not a flog, and it's not about whether I'm right or wrong, I only care about the RFC having some success, and if that means Graham performs well, I'm all for it, and if it doesn't, well that's fine too! I just happen to think that he could end up being a steal, if he keeps progressing as well as he (apparently) has been so far.

 

[RememberRoyce]

Okay cool, off to a good start!



I've never claimed to be a fortune teller mate, I just said I had a gut feel about it, and it's based on the following factors:

1) Our willingness to blood young talent early in the season over the past 2-3 years.
2) His size and strength in comparison to many draftees his age, and draftees that we've blooded previously in early parts of the year, eg. Rioli and Short in 2016.
3) What I've seen of him in his first pre-season with us, and also his junior highlights playing against senior, big-bodied players at state level.

Is there something wrong with forming an early opinion on a bloke based on these factors? Or is it only acceptable when that opinion is cynical and negative?



I'm assuming you're referencing my recent post from the "Best 22 for Round 1" thread (otherwise this is just a strange thing to say ), in which I pointed out how I feel like the 3rd man up rule will give a significant advantage to a guy like Hampson, because it will enhance his strengths (his tap work in the ruck) and make those skills more valuable.

Two things;

Firstly, I actually have Hampson starting on the bench in my Best 22, and Nankervis starting on the field. So you're wrong there already, because he's not in my starting side!

Secondly, do you disagree that Hampson's tap work is elite, or at least very close to it? If so that's fine, but even the most ardent of Hampson haters rarely criticizes his ability in the actual ruck position, the hate is largely due to him not following up around the ground, and being a bit s**t in marking contests.

For those who didn't see the post, I said that Hampson still has weaknesses that he needs to work on, but that the rule change for banning 3rd man ups around the ground, will make him much more valuable to us in the ruck position, due to his elite tap work becoming more important around the ground.

I'm not exactly what you'd call a Hampson fan myself mate, but his tap work has always been very very good. Don't think too many would disagree with that sentiment honestly!



Sure, I could... but I wouldn't, because I'm not a flog, and it's not about whether I'm right or wrong, I only care about the RFC having some success, and if that means Graham performs well, I'm all for it, and if it doesn't, well that's fine too! I just happen to think that he could end up being a steal, if he keeps progressing as well as he (apparently) has been so far.

Well argued and I hope you are right.
My concern is there are some who have watched him closely and their feedback to me seems to indicate a player with a similar playing style to Townsend. He will definitely play nab cup, so we'll get a good look then.

On Hampson, I'm not sure the 3rd up was used that often, so as you said, he'll need to improve in other areas to be 'useful' imo.

 

[ReaperX]

Well argued and I hope you are right.
My concern is there are some who have watched him closely and their feedback to me seems to indicate a player with a similar playing style to Townsend. He will definitely play nab cup, so we'll get a good look then.

On Hampson, I'm not sure the 3rd up was used that often, so as you said, he'll need to improve in other areas to be 'useful' imo.

NAB Cup will be a good indicator, however I would love to see him get a game against a weaker opponent in a H&A match, because even playing a poor team in H&A gives us a better indication than seeing a NAB cup game imo.

Townsend's playing style isn't all terrible imo, it's really just the skills aspect that lets him down. If he was used as a pure tagger/shutdown type of role, I think he could go alright still! But I do understand that less and less teams are playing genuine taggers these days, so that might not be an option, I don't know.

To your knowledge, what are some of Graham's weaknesses that he needs to work on? Is it the skills that let him down? I was always under the impression that it was more his pace that was considered his biggest weakness, similar to a bloke like Miles.

And my point with Hampson is that, in those ruck duels around the ground, his ability as a pure ruckman was often negated by opposition players able to get 3rd man up against him, or at the very least body him and put him off, but now that they can't do that, I'd back him in to beat most of his peers in pure ruck work. And his ability to cover the ground and get to contests isn't really in question, what's in question is his ability to take marks up forward, kick straight when he gets a shot on goal, and get possessions around the ground like the very best ruckman do, i.e Gawn, Goldstein, etc etc.

The fact is, he probably won't improve on his weaknesses too much, given that he's like 28 now. But if his assets are maximized by this rule change, he could still be of value to us as a #1 pure ruckman.

The ideal situation is for Nankervis to step up and take on the #1 ruck role asap, and hopefully develop into a gun ruck, but if Hammer can make the most of this rule change and keep himself in the side, while Nanny plays 2nd ruck/3rd tall forward, I'm all for that too!

When life gives you Hammers, go buy some nails and build a house!

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Honestly I just think he's got a good chance at it because of his size at his age, if we could get 30-40 games under his belt by the time he's 20, it'll put him in really good stead to be a major contributor for us in the future. By all accounts he's a younger, taller, and better built version of Anthony Miles.

Not many kids have "ready-to-go" bodies at 18 years old, but the ones that do, generally end up playing pretty early on. I'm not sure of his exact size, but at a guess I think he's like 182 or 183, and he looks well over 80kgs from the pics I've seen, which is a mans body, not a kids.

FWIW, Daniel Rioli debuted last year at sub 70kgs.

Obviously there was a reason he slipped to a pick in the 50's, but from what I've read, injuries may have played a significant part in that happening, so I'm not sure. In any case, your draft position means very little once you get to the club, because if you can impress the coaches and show you're ready to go and contribute to the team, his draft position will be irrelevant.

Think he is a wines type which clubs are choosing to avoid due to lack of leg speed. Think he'll be good early in his career may then taper off in years 3-5 .

 

[ReaperX]

Think he is a wines type which clubs are choosing to avoid due to lack of leg speed. Think he'll be good early in his career may then taper off in years 3-5 .

All the more reason to get him playing asap then I guess!

Make hay while the sun's shining, all that jazz!

 

[RememberRoyce]

NAB Cup will be a good indicator, however I would love to see him get a game against a weaker opponent in a H&A match, because even playing a poor team in H&A gives us a better indication than seeing a NAB cup game imo.

Townsend's playing style isn't all terrible imo, it's really just the skills aspect that lets him down. If he was used as a pure tagger/shutdown type of role, I think he could go alright still! But I do understand that less and less teams are playing genuine taggers these days, so that might not be an option, I don't know.

To your knowledge, what are some of Graham's weaknesses that he needs to work on? Is it the skills that let him down? I was always under the impression that it was more his pace that was considered his biggest weakness, similar to a bloke like Miles.

And my point with Hampson is that, in those ruck duels around the ground, his ability as a pure ruckman was often negated by opposition players able to get 3rd man up against him, or at the very least body him and put him off, but now that they can't do that, I'd back him in to beat most of his peers in pure ruck work. And his ability to cover the ground and get to contests isn't really in question, what's in question is his ability to take marks up forward, kick straight when he gets a shot on goal, and get possessions around the ground like the very best ruckman do, i.e Gawn, Goldstein, etc etc.

The fact is, he probably won't improve on his weaknesses too much, given that he's like 28 now. But if his assets are maximized by this rule change, he could still be of value to us as a #1 pure ruckman.

The ideal situation is for Nankervis to step up and take on the #1 ruck role asap, and hopefully develop into a gun ruck, but if Hammer can make the most of this rule change and keep himself in the side, while Nanny plays 2nd ruck/3rd tall forward, I'm all for that too!

When life gives you Hammers, go buy some nails and build a house!

Yes. 'I've read' his skills and decision making, like Townsend, are what let him down. Gets big numbers by attacking the pill, but can blaze it forward. It's a tough thing to correct as this type of player have done it right through their whole junior years. Tucky finally 'improved' by the time he was 27 - 28. But Tuck could take a decent grab. Not sure Graham has that ability.

R1 Carlton is not 'a weak opposition' to be giving a kid a trial run imo. Lets hope though he can tackle and has quick hands, and as a contested beast, he'll be much needed in our current team of 'why bother tacklers'.

 

[HumanMeatball]

Graham and Townsend are nothing alike

 

[TigerImposter]

Graham and Townsend are nothing alike

Convince us please.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Convince us please.

Where did the us come from...?!?

 

[TigerImposter]

Where did the us come from...?!?

Read the posts leading up as there were people raising the issue.
As I know very little of him I would like the so called valued opinion of people who have seen him. Now hurry on along.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Read the posts leading up as there were people raising the issue.
As I know very little of him I would like the so called valued opinion of people who have seen him. Now hurry on along.

Where did your so called posts come from...?!?

 

[TigerImposter]

Where did your so called posts come from...?!?

I'm sorry if you have issues with the English language. You highlighted my post yet you couldn't see I was referring to others . Then you proceed with the immature emojis for the second time making me believe that they are a true representation of you.
Did I say my posts?This is why I said "us "as I was also interested as well as the other posters.
Are you drunk again or just being petty argumentative?stop derailing threads as you're embarrassing yourself.
Now get back in your box if you cannot follow the thread as you're behaving Foolishly.

 

[RememberRoyce]

Where did the us come from...?!?

Me!

 

[bananatigz]

I have a gut feel that Graham will play Round 1 this year.

His pre-season, by all accounts, has been exceptional, and his body is ready to go in terms of size and strength.

Will be a gun imo!

Where have you heard that mate? I haven't heard much about him at all other than that he has been in the rehab group for stages

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

I'm sorry if you have issues with the English language. You highlighted my post yet you couldn't see I was referring to others . Then you proceed with the immature emojis for the second time making me believe that they are a true representation of you.
Did I say my posts?This is why I said "us "as I was also interested as well as the other posters.
Are you drunk again or just being petty argumentative?stop derailing threads as you're embarrassing yourself.
Now get back in your box if you cannot follow the thread as you're behaving Foolishly.

oh I get it now your the one that needs convincing...I'm out...

 

[TigerImposter]

oh I get it now your the one that needs convincing...I'm out...

I'm not sure if we have Tiger Little league BF site , now if we do the audience there maybe more of your level.

 

[telsor]

oh I get it now your the one that needs convincing...I'm out...

This is the BF Richmond board.

Negative comments need no justification, but anything even vaguely positive must be PROVEN. (at which point it will be ignored)

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

I'm not sure if we have Tiger Little league BF site , now if we do the audience there maybe more of your level.

Yup...your the one then...the one that needs convincing...like I said i'm out...your too hard work..

 

[Bobby Sands]

Read the posts leading up as there were people raising the issue.
As I know very little of him I would like the so called valued opinion of people who have seen him. Now hurry on along.

Scumbag manner.

 

[TigerImposter]

Scumbag manner.

Terrible isn't he?

 

[ReaperX]

Can we just discuss Jack Graham and his potential impact on the RFC in 2017 and beyond, like the thread topic suggests?

Or are the dick-swinging contests that some of you are having just that damn important?

 

[TigerImposter]

Can we just discuss Jack Graham and his potential impact on the RFC in 2017 and beyond, like the thread topic suggests?

Or are the dick-swinging contests that some of you are having just that damn important?

Exactly as I was asking for a professional opinion on him.

 

[THE_GUN]

Im expecting a Joel Selwood type influence in his first year, Anything less wont be acceptable