Well done, Carlton, but...

[Mr Ripper]

It worked, so good on yers, but I'm getting increasingly concerned about the use of the dreaded 'F-word' tactic to uglify games and negate the brilliance of so-called 'better' teams. It's just not cricket IMVHO. I think Essendon supporters should brace themselves for a season of low-scoring, scrappy encounters.

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Olmy knows best

 

[Ronny Andrews]

Interesting point and well picked up Mr Ripper, it was the same style of game as the Bulldogs played last year.
Make it a rugby scrum style affair, and take some of the skill and run out of the game.
Carlton worked it well, they are probably one of the strongest teams at the contest with guys like Ratten,Hickmott,McKay etc and even their lesser lights like Hulme,Culpitt,and Freeborn enjoying the pack type contests.
Its the same with the Bulldogs,Libba,Romero,Dimattina and West all like that way as well. Its just a question of Essendon adjusting their game plan and maybe getting some of the match ups right.
Porter is too tall and strong for barnes to ruck against all night and alessio cant jump.David Hille should be in the team for the next game, you just cant expect Barnes to
ruck all night against bigger players at his age.I would also question McVeigh at this level, he may be ok against the crows or port adelaide but putting him on player like Camporeale was a mistake, Camporeale took their kick ins and then ran down the ground and got the ball back without McVeigh being anywhere near him..I would prefer to see Corey McGrath in the team. Well played Carlton, but it aint the GF, its just a home and away game...long way to go yet and the bombers will see ya in the finals.

 

[Shinboners]

I disagree Mr. Ripper. I don't think the Blues used the flooding tactic until the very end when they dropped extra men into defence.

What Carlton did all night was to play 1 on 1 football. Where ever the Essendon players went on the field, their Carlton opponents followed them.

Flooding happens when a team moves two or more of their players into their opposition forward line to fill in any spaces in that area of the ground. When the Doggies used this tactic against Essendon last year, there were sometimes three or four Essendon players standing around the midfield without a Bulldog opponent to keep them company. Last night, every Essendon player had a Carlton player keeping him company.

The other thing about flooding is that the team that does the flooding hopes to get a goal on the fast break by letting the running players break out of defence and avoiding any contests on route to goal (ie, getting receivers to run into open spaces). Last night, a large portion of the goals were due to a series of passes down the field to 1-1 contests, but where the odds were 55-45 in favour of the attack team.

I still think that Essendon are one of the most tactically advanced sides in the competition. However, it's interesting that the tactics have all been brought undone by the simple use of one on one football.

 

[Dan26]

I don't think they flooded so much, as they played the game on their terms. They kept it tight and close, even when the ball was in the midfield. Essendon are at their best when they are out wide and can utilise their skill. Carlton like it bottled up.

Teams tried it last year and it didn't stop Essendon kicking 20 goals a match on average. Essendon can always flood the opposition forward line and leave an open forward line ourselves if need be !

I'm still pissed off that we lost. I woke up this morning and thought it was all a bad dream. Then I realise it really happened. I'm not really sure what happeend, because our effort was there. We just weren't clean and crisp with our skills. We were badly out of form. Carlton didn't let us get an easy kick all night.

I still think it was a match that Essendon lost more than Carlton won. Even with Carlton playing at their very, very best, they should not have been allowed to win with the team they had in. It was a terrible loss from our point of view.

Can't wait to play Carlscum again in Round 18. Bring 'em on I say !!!

 

[Mr Ripper]

Originally posted by Shinboners:
I disagree Mr. Ripper. I don't think the Blues used the flooding tactic until the very end when they dropped extra men into defence.

Fairy nuff. I did only see the last quarter though. And I didn't like what I saw to be honest. From a spectatorial POV anyways.

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Olmy knows best

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Carlton played mostly man on man footy. They were all given a job and did it well. There was a little flooding but the Bomber players followed the Blues into their forward line so they contributed to the congestion.

The Blues at times did also employ 'Pagan's paddock' but this was largely ineffective so didn't last long. This was purely accountable football carried out to perfection. Wayne Brittain deserves a lot of credit for devising a last minute plan in light of the player withdrawals.

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mens sana in corpore sano - a sound mind in a sound body

 

[SpecialBruce]

It's a ridiculous method. I hate it.

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Go Hoppers!!

 

[Grendel]

With Shinners on this MR.R.

It really was an old fashioned one on one game for most of the night. The Bombers were the ones that actually pushed a lot of their players forward (why i dont know) either to go with the Bleus who were trying to go back, or to limit their scoring chances.

Basically when Misiti got hurt, they didnt have anyone to go with Ratten. He won them the game, suberb last quarter. Won every contest he was in and used the ball to advantage. One of the best individual displays ive seen for a long time.

Still, its only one loss, but it did show that they are beatable (always thought they were) but with the media build-up they were getting it was nice to see. Two in a row is a distinct chance, would love to see the Swans (who should have beaten them last season knock em off too!

Now THAT would make for some interesting reading on the boards!!

lol.

 

[Michele]

Originally posted by Dan25:
"........
I'm still pissed off that we lost. I woke up this morning and thought it was all a bad dream. Then I realise it really happened. I'm not really sure what happeend, because our effort was there. We just weren't clean and crisp with our skills. We were badly out of form. Carlton didn't let us get an easy kick all night.

I still think it was a match that Essendon lost more than Carlton won. Even with Carlton playing at their very, very best, they should not have been allowed to win with the team they had in. It was a terrible loss from our point of view.

Can't wait to play Carlscum again in Round 18. Bring 'em on I say !!!

Dan 25

"I still think it was a match that Essendon lost more than Carlton won"!!!!!!???????

That sentence just proves the bad sportsmanship of Essendon supporters.
In one sentence, you have proven that Essendon supporters are smug and very arrogant.

Essendon appearing on an oval, doesn't guarantee a win - that must be earned.

Essendon, at sometime would lose a game, but that they lost to Carlton who were missing 3 of their best players, must make that all the more galling.

Carlton DESERVED to win - the played better footy and were far more determined to win!

Michele

NMFC 1869

 

[Dan26]

Michele,

I kind of expected that response after I said that Essendon lost it more than Carlton won it, but the fact remains, that even though Carlton were outstanding, they should not have been allowed to win with 4 of their best players missing.

I have stated they were very good (how many times do I have to say it?) and I have given them credit for not letting Essendon win an easy kick all night. But if Essendon were playing at their best against that depleted side, then they would have won. And I say that objectively too.

Essendon should not have allowed Carlton to dictate the pace of the match, especially with a lot of no-name players competing for the Blues.

I've got no doubt that it was Essendon's performance that lost the match, rather than Carlton's performance winning it. It HAS to be if you look at the differecne in talent of the respective line-ups.

Bottom line, is if the Bombers play at their best, last night, they win. They didn't, and they lost. Carlton played wonderfully at the same time and got over the line.

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by Dan25:
I have given them credit for not letting Essendon win an easy kick all night. But if Essendon were playing at their best against that depleted side, then they would have won. And I say that objectively too.

In other posts, you've said that Carlton "fluked" their win and that it was a matter that Essendon LOST it, not Carlton WINNING it. But here you've also said that you're giving credit to Carlton for not letting Essendon win an easy kick all night. Surely that simple observation makes a mockery of any idea of a "fluke" or "Essendon losing rather than Carlton winning". In the same way you have your theory that a team cannot "choke", then the same applies in that a team cannot "fluke" a win.

The simple facts of the matter is that Carlton went onto the field with a strategy to beat Essendon, they executed that strategy, and thus WON the game. Sure, there may have been some complacency in the Essendon team, but with Sheedy's comments about wanting revenge for 1999, and the fact that the game was against the club Essendon consider their greatest rivals, there really shouldn't have been any reason for complacency.

Like many others, I tipped an Essendon win (by 10 goals to be exact). After hearing of the loss of Kouta, Silvagni, and Bradley, I was thinking that a 100 point thrashing wasn't out of the question. But you have to give all the credit to Carlton for winning a game against all odds.

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by Grendel:
Two in a row is a distinct chance, would love to see the Swans (who should have beaten them last season knock em off too!

Now THAT would make for some interesting reading on the boards!!

lol.

Nah, the Carlton fans have been very graceful in victory and I can't see Bloodstained Angel going overboard should the Swans beat the Dons.

What would be interesting to read is what would happen should Collingwood beat Essendon.

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by Shinboners:
In other posts, you've said that Carlton "fluked" their win and that it was a matter that Essendon LOST it, not Carlton WINNING it. But here you've also said that you're giving credit to Carlton for not letting Essendon win an easy kick all night. Surely that simple observation makes a mockery of any idea of a "fluke" or "Essendon losing rather than Carlton winning". In the same way you have your theory that a team cannot "choke", then the same applies in that a team cannot "fluke" a win.

The simple facts of the matter is that Carlton went onto the field with a strategy to beat Essendon, they executed that strategy, and thus WON the game. Sure, there may have been some complacency in the Essendon team, but with Sheedy's comments about wanting revenge for 1999, and the fact that the game was against the club Essendon consider their greatest rivals, there really shouldn't have been any reason for complacency.

Like many others, I tipped an Essendon win (by 10 goals to be exact). After hearing of the loss of Kouta, Silvagni, and Bradley, I was thinking that a 100 point thrashing wasn't out of the question. But you have to give all the credit to Carlton for winning a game against all odds.

How many times do I have to give them credit? I've given them credit about 25 times on these boards. Carlton deserved to win GIVEN how Essendon played. The Blues were at their best, Essendon weren't, and the Blues won. But when a team wins without 4 of their best players, the immediate thought is - "Fluke". (i.e "how the hell did they do that?")

You're right, there "shouldn't" have been any reason for complacency, but for some reason there "was" complacency. Perhaps the loss of the three Carlton players before the game, led to some of this complacency.

 

[Carey_is_King]

Dan,
Are you familiar with the expression;
"Humble in victory & gracious in defeat" ?
Perhaps it wouldn't hurt the Bummers to adopt this as their club motto for a year or twenty !!

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Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.