West Coast and Fremantle, why the difference? | BigFooty

West Coast and Fremantle, why the difference?

Discussion in 'AFL - The Australian Football League' started by dean33, Oct 1, 2018.

  1. dean33

    dean33 Norm Smith Medallist

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    This really puzzles me as someone looking on from the other side of the country but why is there a massive difference between the eagles and the dockers?
    Sure west coast entered the comp 8 years earlier however freo have been around for 23 years now and aside from 2013 haven’t looked like winning a flag, while the eagles have averaged a flag every 7.75 years which is very very good.
    I would have thought with the strong historical links freo have with their past that they should be just as strong as the eagles.
    When I compare it to SA, the crows and port are much more even than the eagles and dockers.
    This isn’t meant to be a pot shot at the dockers I’m just curious as to why the eagles are such a strong club on and off the field while the dockers always seem to be doing it hard?
    Would love to hear from some WA people as to why there is such a gulf?
     
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  2. kane249

    kane249 New cup, who dis?

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    Expect a conspiracy theory from Fremantle supporters ranging from the media, umpires, Illuminati, saucer people, reverse vampires etc
     
  3. Coaster2012

    Coaster2012 Premiership Player

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    Just shit decisions. Their drafting has been shocking the past decade, besides Fyfe, and Lyon is slowly driving them into the dirt. They were unlucky to make a GF against the best side in the modern era (Besides Brisbane).
     
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  4. kane249

    kane249 New cup, who dis?

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    But on topic we were the first team in the state so we had the advantage of being the established expansion team which has helped immensely.

    Fremantle to their credit have taken some big off field steps in recent years (the logo and jumper rebrand, stealing Ross Lyon, making a grand final etc) but they are at a position now where another big call needs to be made on Lyon moving forward.
     
  5. kranky al

    kranky al Brownlow Medallist

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    I was hearing the other day that they got rid of the guy who drafted fyfe.

    Is this true?
     
  6. Mr Fonebone

    Mr Fonebone Club Legend

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    The main difference is the circumstances under which they were set up.

    Eagles got gifted a virtual state side - picking the cream of the best young talent in WA. After a couple of years they got going, won a flag and have established a solid club culture since.

    Freo, on the other hand were shafted by the AFL when they were created. They got nothing in comparison. They started on the back foot and have struggled ever since.

    The comparison between the two is not really fair.
     
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  7. 00Stinger

    00Stinger Duel Group 1 winner

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    And had they kicked straight early they would have won that game
     
  8. Coaster2012

    Coaster2012 Premiership Player

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    But you have a massive fan following and you are fine financially. And it's been long enough to recover the bad concession offerings in those early years. WC have turned their list over three times since those early WA player concessions and won 2 flags and been in 4 GF's (Not counting those early 90 flags because concessions helped us for sure, but even those concessions were no where near what GWS were given). So structurally and culturally, you are fine. It's just all about the drafting imo.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
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  9. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Brownlow Medallist

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    I think there was a period from 2010-2015 when the Dockers were right in the mix. It's telling that they just couldn't quite take the next step, and were probably one or two top-liners short during that high ebb.

    I'd also question whether Freo have got their coaching appointments right. WC, whatever else you might say about the club, went Malthouse, Worsfold, Simpson. They were all spot on. We'll just forget about Ken Judge.
     
  10. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Brownlow Medallist

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    Is that really true? People say it but I wonder if it bears scrutiny.
     
  11. Jaeger

    Jaeger Premium Gold

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    West coast has always had better coaches
     

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  12. Coaster2012

    Coaster2012 Premiership Player

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    Considering the best WAFL players were already playing in the VFL, it's actually inaccurate.
     
  13. kane249

    kane249 New cup, who dis?

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    No we really didnt

    Guys like Bewick, Winmar, Harding, Wilson, Buckenarra etc were raided from the WAFL in the 2 years prior to us joining. We got the best of what was left and even then we got given a start up list of 37 compared to the 52 the other teams had. I've heard the excuse that it was because the VFL teams had reserve teams, but it still gave them the advantage of picking a senior team of 20 players from a list of 52 compared to picking 20 from a list of 37. We didn't have the same depth they had.

    We could have a flag a lot sooner had we had access to some of the guys who got poached, then we would have been a proper state side.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
  14. Coaster2012

    Coaster2012 Premiership Player

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    This. Everyone except Judge was en elite coach at the top of their game and had brillant players at their disposal.

    Malthouse had Worsfold, Matera, Mainwaring, Mckenna, Jakovich.

    Worsfold had Cousins, Cox, Kerr, Judd,

    Simpson had Mcgovern, Kennedy, Shuey, Darling.

    Freo haven't had even close to that.
     
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  15. Herne Hill Hammer

    Herne Hill Hammer Premium Platinum

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    Another thing that may have really help the establishment of the Eagles was the fact that State of Origin was still a thing. The rivalry was intense, any chance for WA to have their own side and show that they're better than Victorians wouldn't have hurt.

    I know that Port have won a flag, but I look at them and Freo as the ugly, red headed, step child in their respective states. For whatever reason, I don't get that with either of GWS and GC.

    Maybe it's a traditional football state kind of thing.
     
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  16. Snuffaluphagus

    Snuffaluphagus Club Legend

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    I mean, its the same as the clubs in Melbourne right? Why are Hawthorn so successful and a bunch of clubs not? Management and culture.

    The start of our football life was atrocious given what we were handed and what other start-up clubs received. Took us 10 years to get anywhere. We also had a bunch of absolute muppets in charge

    People will hate him forever but poaching Ross was a turning point and you cant argue with his results in that period of "success" we had.

    Rosich has also turned us into a very very strong off-field team.

    TLDR: Management and culture was atrocious for 10+ years, much better now but still not on Eagles level
     
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  17. Rob

    Rob Brownlow Medallist

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    Drafting mostly. Go and have a look at a list of our first round draft picks over the years.

    A bit of luck would have helped too.
     
  18. Tom_Thumb

    Tom_Thumb Club Legend

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    A second string state side, I've said it before a state side would of had Buckanara, Beasley, Dorotich, Blackwell, Hunter, Hardy, Rioli, Krakoures, Winmar, Baker, Peake and a few others.

    I think the main difference is attitude, they thought it was just going to come to them (success) and when it didn't they all got chips on their shoulders. Expected to be great and went down a path of mistake after mistake, like selecting bad coaches and bad drafting coupled with missing gift horse draftees. I actually felt sorry for them until the supporters got all jaded and bitter from failure then I started to dispise them, now I'm back to feeling sorry.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
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  19. Kwality

    Kwality Brownlow Medallist

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    Fair quickpic of the overall, but the state side bit is a very long bow - the initial squad wasnt anything like a State side, 35 man squad v the VFL teams 53 - the 1990 finals when the Eagles were on the road 4 weeks in a row were the catalyst for evening up the squads & priority picks (priority , some priority, the top 700 players were already listed so our priority was 701, 702 ..) & the Eagles got lucky picking of the Teal Cup winning squad that took them to the 92 & 94 flags. With success came a following by the WA footy loving public.

    As #2 in the game Freo have had to make their own way & have made the blues all the new clubs suffer, the Eagles included.

    I'm a fan of Ross, he'll be back hopefully in 2019.
     
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  20. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Brownlow Medallist

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    It is striking how triggered they get by WC success.
     
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  21. Dazzler10

    Dazzler10 Club Legend

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    Freo fans will all tell you how sick to the back teeth they are of hearing Eagles fans bang on about their 3 premierships.

    They no longer have to worry about that.
     
  22. Fat Nyfe

    Fat Nyfe Premiership Player

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    That explains the Eagles first 2 flags and our mediocre start, but not the past 10-15 years where both clubs have been financially well off and had the same advantages/disadvantages. The Dockers have had some pretty poor management and recruiting in that time. We got it together for a few years following the sacking of Mark Harvey and became a professionally run outfit, strong on and off field without achieving the ultimate - that has slowly disintegrated since then.

    The Eagles on the other hand have been very professionally run, with only a few short down periods before bouncing back into finals. This flag was built off years of finals experience, playing in big games, and lessons learnt from 2015. They have seized the advantages of a home ground in Perth and worked through the disadvantages of travelling.

    I do think in time things will become more even in terms of performance because both clubs have similar resources at their disposal. But right now it's all credit to the Eagles for maximising those resources and taking their chances while Freo unfortunately haven't.
     
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  23. Herne Hill Hammer

    Herne Hill Hammer Premium Platinum

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    Eagles joined the comp in 1987.

    • Buckenara joined Hawthorn in 1982. He was a two time premiership player by the time the Eagles came along.
    • Darren Bewick didn't start at Essendon until 1988, the year after WCE started.
    • Peter Wilson started at Richmond the same year the Eagles started. (who else remembers Richmond, Wilson, giving Karl Langdon the chicken walk at the G?) Wilson is also a dual premiership player with the Eagles.
    • Nicky Winmar started at St Kilda the same year the Eagles started.
    • Paul Harding started at Hawthorn the same year the Eagles started. He eventually went to the Eagles and played in the '92 flag. For someone who was so hyped at the time and went to court, etc etc, he had a very underwhelming career.

    So there you go, of the players that you named as being poached in the 2 years prior the Eagles starting, not a single one of them is correct.

    Ross Glendinning returned from North Melbourne to be the inaugural captain of the Eagles and played in their first 2 seasons.

    Ken Hunter started at Carlton in 1981 and was done by 1989. (probably 1988, only played a few games in his last season)

    Alan Johnson started at Melbourne in 1982 and was done by 1990. (probably 1989, only played a few games in his last season)

    Steve Malaxos played at season at Hawthorn in 1985 (9) games, didn't really set the world on fire. Went home and was an inaugural Eagle.

    Mark Bairstow started at Geelong the same year as the Eagles started.

    So from just a quick look it seems that WCE would have had access to Bairstow, Bewick, Wilson, Winmar and Harding but for whatever reason didn't get them. They eventually got Wilson and Harding.

    Warren Ralph had already been across to Carlton and was back playing with Claremont in 1987 kicking goals, obviously not interested in him.

    Simon Beasley was well entrenced at Footscray, kicking 73 goals in '87 and 82 in '88, his last two full seasons. He obviously didn't think much of the west because he stayed on after his career had finished.

    Brad Hardie was already a Brownlow medallist, did he go home to the Eagles? No, he went to the Brisbane Bears instead. Did WCE even want him? That's a bit of a kick in the guts choosing the Bad News Bears of the Weagles.

    I know he's back over there now and torments you all on radio speaking shit.

    So in summing up, Buckenara, Glendinning, Malaxos, Wilson and Harding all ended up at the Eagles. Harding and Wilson both premiership players. Roscoe the inaugural captain.

    Hunter, Johnson and Simon Beasley already well established at Victorian clubs for a number of years.

    Warren Ralph not wanted.

    Brad Hardie not wanted or reluctant.

    Bairstow, Bewick, Winmar all in the window for the Eagles start up, but for whatever reasons, never went there. Wilson and Harding would take a few years to get there.

    Who else who was any decent was playing in the VFL at the time who was from WA?
     
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  24. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Brownlow Medallist

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    Nah.
     
  25. Tbonefreo

    Tbonefreo Premiership Player

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    Bit harsh on a bloke that passed away
     
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