West Coast and Fremantle, why the difference?

[CakeEater]

They selfishly and foolishly got rid of Mark Harvey just as his side was about to come good.

That's what happened.

Time for me to eat you alive here.

We were going nowhere with him at the helm.

Chris Scott was the brains behind the operation, when he left we went downhill quicker then you guys in the 2012 season.

We started playing really dumb footy and it took Ross to bring us fwd to be a contender.

 

[Call Me Cake]

Time for me to eat you alive here.

We were going nowhere with him at the helm.

Chris Scott was the brains behind the operation, when he left we went downhill quicker then you guys in the 2012 season.

We started playing really dumb footy and it took Ross to bring us fwd to be a contender.

No, time for me to eat you alive here

Mark Harvey would have had a 5 year plan, just as any coach would. When he came to Freo in 2007, it was a nothing club, with a list that had to be overhauled. Every notable player that brought Freo the "success" period they had from 2011 + had grown at the club under Harvey's leadership. The only thing that needed to be done was to build them into a list worth qualifying, which takes time.

Unfortunately, Harvey didn't have the time to see out his plan in 2011 and onwards, after only 4 years, due to the fact that Lyon had come along to captain a ship that he was supposed to steer, only for Lyon to crash it into an iceberg - and what you see now is the actual team Lyon is capable of building when left to his own work - nothing. The same way Lyon had come along at St Kilda and used a list he had no part in constructing to gain a false sense of credibility as a coach.

 

[JackFlash]

West Coast have a personable coach who has managed to extract the best out of his players...they play a more exciting brand of football.

Fremantle are like Brussels sprouts that are quite a bit more bitter than other vegetables, and as bitterness is one of those fundamental tastes that people don't like, almost everyone's first contact with Fremantle is an unpleasant one, just like Brussels sprouts!
Oh and Ross Lyon is the coach...i would rather watch concrete set than any team coached by Ross Lyon!

 

[coldlunch]

No, time for me to eat you alive here

Mark Harvey would have had a 5 year plan, just as any coach would. When he came to Freo in 2007, it was a nothing club, with a list that had to be overhauled. Every notable player that brought Freo the "success" period they had from 2011 + had grown at the club under Harvey's leadership. The only thing that needed to be done was to build them into a list worth qualifying, which takes time.

Unfortunately, Harvey didn't have the time to see out his plan in 2011 and onwards, after only 4 years, due to the fact that Lyon had come along to captain a ship that he was supposed to steer, only for Lyon to crash it into an iceberg - and what you see now is the actual team Lyon is capable of building when left to his own work - nothing. The same way Lyon had come along at St Kilda and used a list he had no part in constructing to gain a false sense of credibility as a coach.

so Mark Harvey just needed a 6th year to show what he could do, but Ross Lyon's rebuild is a failure in year 3?

and for what it's worth, Harvey inherited a team in '07 that had made a prelim the year before.
Chris Connolly took over a wooden spoon side and actually won more games in his five years than Harvey managed.

 

[dave123]

give Freo some credit for lobb and hogan

Good gets

If they can get Walters Fyfe hill brothers all firing they can sneak into 8

They now have tarbener McCarthy hogan and lobb

Peter bells next task is to get rid of Lyon .....

They have actually done ok this off season

 

[Quokka]

Haven't read more than the last couple of pages but also to give some credit and the Eagles have been one of the most successful clubs of the modern era (Since Eagles joined making it more than the VFL) with only Hawthorn ahead of them.

Out of 17 other clubs that's always a tough comparison. The totals over the last decade (excluding finals) is:

Eagles: 124-95-1 (1 Premiership)
Fremantle : 111-108-1 (0 Premierships)

No doubt skewed in the Eagles favour but not by as much as many people would think.

I'm sure its been discussed but there was huge differences in the clubs entering the competitions, Eagles were a powerhouse within a couple of seasons and SOME of that was due to the players they were able to attract. Freo got less assistance than pretty much any of the clubs joining the comp since 1987.

But that's not even close to the whole story, the Eagles have made good decisions time and time again and plenty of Freo's history is self-inflicted. Whatever you think of Lyon he is still the only coach Fremantle have ever had who has been a head coach at another club (before or after Freo) and it should never have taken 18 years to decide to bring in an experienced coach to stabilize the club.

It'll be plenty of years before Fremantle squares the ledger with the Eagles but in the last decade or so they've been pretty middle order comparing them to the league as a whole and I'm optimistic they're going in the right direction at least.

 

[Mitchell54]

Fremantle haven’t grabbed one of those Hawthorn assistant coaches to become coach.

Past 3 years have been ex Clarko assistant and the 3 before that were Clarko himself.

2013: Hawthorn (Al Clarkson)
2014: Hawthorn (Al Clarkson)
2015: Hawthorn (Al Clarkson)
2016: Western Bulldogs (Luke Beveridge)
2017: Richmond (Damian Hardwick)
2018: West Coast (Adam Simpson)

 

[Freomaniac]

Fremantle haven’t grabbed one of those Hawthorn assistant coaches to become coach.

Past 3 years have been ex Clarko assistant and the 3 before that were Clarko himself.

2013: Hawthorn (Al Clarkson)
2014: Hawthorn (Al Clarkson)
2015: Hawthorn (Al Clarkson)
2016: Western Bulldogs (Luke Beveridge)
2017: Richmond (Damian Hardwick)
2018: West Coast (Adam Simpson)

and you expect that to continue in 2019?

 

[dropbear101]

lot of eagles supporter throwing their two cents about on this board

my two cents are now days I don't think their is much difference before yeah their was
im extremely positive about the future if you notice all our injuries this year were to experienced mids which isn't good in the modern game. I mean seriously we lined up in some centre bounces with a midfield comprised of giro, banfield, cerra, brayshaw, Langdon and darcy combine that with our forward line its a wonder we didn't finish bottom.
west coast are in an up period correct me if im wrong but they finished bottom in 2010 once kenedy, shuey, darling, hurn all retire they might fall out of finals
we started this decade in finals than went down I expect us to be back their soon.

watching freo games live this year makes me believe that ross has changed his game plan or got a new one but yet to make it click similar to bucks before 2017 and hardwick 2016
I say this because earlier in the year when we were winning (aka playing football the way we wanted to play) it was quite free flowing football which was sort of weird to watch cause its been so long. That never happened in 2013 teams might have got a high score but it wasn't free flowing. Its also why I think when we lost we lost really badly. afl games today are more forward half territory games without a good forward line and an inexperienced midfield we struggled to get it in their so we were forced to play a defensive game.

it will be interesting next year

 

[Carson Dial]

West Coast have a personable coach who has managed to extract the best out of his players...they play a more exciting brand of football.

Fremantle are like Brussels sprouts that are quite a bit more bitter than other vegetables, and as bitterness is one of those fundamental tastes that people don't like, almost everyone's first contact with Fremantle is an unpleasant one, just like Brussels sprouts!
Oh and Ross Lyon is the coach...i would rather watch concrete set than any team coached by Ross Lyon!

Lol stick to Gardening Australia, sounds much more up your alley.

 

[mightymouse75]

Lol stick to Gardening Australia, sounds much more up your alley.

Is that you peter russel clarke. Brussel sprouts. Omg

 

[Dazzler9]

I remember being happy when we kicked 2 goals in a row. Its been a rocky road. But thats what makes freo supporeters forever grateful. We are great winners and losers. Unlike slime supporters.

Proud, loyal, passionate. Amirite??

 

[Dazzler9]

and you expect that to continue in 2019?

There's a reasonable chance it will.

 

[HAPPY BUDDHA]

Freo problem is their are a one man band always have been always will be.
Peter bell
Clive Waterhouse
Matthew Pavlich
Nat Fyfe
1 focal player that everything revolves around and if that player goes down or has a bad day or hits s**t form they are screwed because no plan b. Ross Lyon makes this more obvious because of his lack of footy smarts and stubborn unwillingness to make changes, or it could be that he’s just a snake oil salesman and led the gullible dorkers up the garden path. They are so starved of success they probably even hire Vossy or Mark Neeld if either of them told them what they wanted to here and made the boneheadidly insane promise of a flag by 2020. They’ll most likely hire Mick Malthouse just so they can be more like us lol

 

[Nolo180]

In regards to OP there is not one definitive reason.

The first bout of west coasts success can be attributed to having access to a very deep talent pool from which to recruit from.
With success come fans, so by the time Freo showed up the eagles already had a very strong side and reputation, plenty of success and huge number of fans.

The first decade for Freo was a struggle, I put this down to a number of things:
- smaller talent pool to recruit from
- more teams in the comp
- incapable coaches
Its always going to be an uphill struggle in a two team town for fans when your rivals are already entrenched in the sporting identity of the place and have had a fair bit of success.

Since 2002ish I'd say both have clubs have been on an equal level of opportunity.
In 2005-07 the eagles were back up there, but it's easy to forget how good Freo were also in 2006.
That period just comes down to recruitment and strategy on field.

From then up til 2015 the two clubs had peaks and troughs, with both making a gf in there.

Since then eagles have been up and the Dockers going through a rebuild.

Essentially all the success to the eagles comparitively to Freo this century has just been down to better running of the football and a few drops of luck.

Prior to that I guess you could attribute the struggles Freo initially had and the success west coast had being a result of how the two clubs were initially set up and the clitmate/time in which they entered the league.

#Kid_a takes a fairly sensible view as have others throughout this thread for a WC fan so its good to see.

The footballing landscape in WA between 1987 to 1994 changed massively due to WC's on field success. The state embraced them wholeheartedly and rightly so. They gave this great state and its football loving fans great pride by beating the Vic's like they had done previously with state games. WC established itself in the corporate world and in the wider community and it had the respect of the rest of the competition due to its on-field success.
Freo wasn't embraced by the community the same way as WC and why should they. Football fans in general had already jumped on WC who had just one their second flag.
In the beginning Freo just held a peculiar fascination for most WC fans and for some it was something they could bully around. The parochialism in the football community that helped drive WC to success against the Vic's became a turf war as they turned their attention to little brother.

Freo's administrative decisions were poor from the get-go thats no secret. And in Freo's haste and with limited resources to compete in the competition and survive financially they made poor decisions appointing coaches, administrators, drafting players and developing the brand's image and clubs culture amongst other things.

One hasty example was appointing Neesham at short notice and thus alienating Souths and Easts due to his unofficial alignment with Claremont meant Freo never fully capitalized on the connection with its namesake which has some of the richest football history in Australia. That was a massive mistake in hindsight.

Early drafting was another example that's been covered many times over and the quality of the WAFL draft pool was a shadow of its former self by '94. Phil Smart the first recruiting manager didn't have the resources or knowledge interstate to bring in the right players from the richer pastures of Vic.

Up until more recently Freo's drafting has been poor particularly the first rounders which would account for the last few seasons being Meh but poor drafting has been commonplace throughout its history. Injury management and the sports science guys have a lot too answer for too in recent years but who knows how much of that is related to the Ross Lyon game style?

WA has a rich footballing history which has produced 2 very different clubs from 2 very different beginnings so comparing them against each other (or say to Port vs Adelaide - according to OP) is like comparing apples to oranges.

The challenges the club has faced in many ways has helped develop a loyal, passionate but mostly resilient supporter group which doesn't take itself too seriously since highlights have been few and far between.

Some WC supporters have been humble since winning the GF this year and its nice to see some supporters are good- natured and can take a more reasoned view regarding Freo instead of taking every opportunity to sledge and take pot shots at the club.

The clubs heading in the right direction with Belly at the helm. I'm not convinced Lyon is the answer but hes better than whats come before and if the club continues to improve its coaching appointments each time then maybe the next one will we the one to get us there and threads like these become a thing of the past....

 

[its free real estate]

The formation story is kind of pointless IMO. Yes, we were badly formed, didn't have as generous concessions as other clubs, etc but 23 years later that should be immaterial.

As a contrast, in 1995 we played our first season, that year Hawthorn finished second last, above only Fitzroy. The next year Hawthorn were broke and a blink away from merging, with Melbourne, who at the time were regarded as the more powerful, richer of the two.

From 1995-2006, Freo was arguably no less successful than Hawthorn in terms of win-loss rate, finals, etc.

However, Hawthorn have won four premierships since Freo has been in the comp. We've had zero.

 

[Magnum27]

The formation story is kind of pointless IMO. Yes, we were badly formed, didn't have as generous concessions as other clubs, etc but 23 years later that should be immaterial.

As a contrast, in 1995 we played our first season, that year Hawthorn finished second last, above only Fitzroy. The next year Hawthorn were broke and a blink away from merging, with Melbourne, who at the time were regarded as the more powerful, richer of the two.

From 1995-2006, Freo was arguably no less successful than Hawthorn in terms of win-loss rate, finals, etc.

However, Hawthorn have won four premierships since Freo has been in the comp. We've had zero.

Correct, they certainly did not get the concessions, the current AFL love childs got, but you guys are now into your 25th year, surely in the 25 years they could have got it correct. Looks like they are on the right track by appointing a good South Freo man to sort them out , and the trade period looks like a good start. Now up to the coach to work with with the tools he has been given and create an attacking winning brand, history says he cannot coach attacking footy, i'll guess we will see this year what he is capable of, but at least with Belly there you seem to have someone who is strong enough to make the tough calls.

 

[Nolo180]

The formation story is kind of pointless IMO. Yes, we were badly formed, didn't have as generous concessions as other clubs, etc but 23 years later that should be immaterial.

As a contrast, in 1995 we played our first season, that year Hawthorn finished second last, above only Fitzroy. The next year Hawthorn were broke and a blink away from merging, with Melbourne, who at the time were regarded as the more powerful, richer of the two.

From 1995-2006, Freo was arguably no less successful than Hawthorn in terms of win-loss rate, finals, etc.

However, Hawthorn have won four premierships since Freo has been in the comp. We've had zero.

It goes back to the OP's original question. Why do WC have a winning culture and not Freo? It started with WC nearly playing finals in their first year. Freo had to wait nearly 10 years to play a final and continued to develop at a snail pace while WC went at light speed.

Freo had the historical links to be a powerhouse but they never harnessed them in the beginning so trying to develop them later after developing a bit of a losing culture was always going to be hard.

But ur right its taken way too long. The majority of BF posters care deeply about the club and don't tolerate complacency but perhaps maybe some sections of the freo supporter base are too comfortable with losing?

 

[Gavin Excell]

It goes back to the OP's original question. Why do WC have a winning culture and not Freo? It started with WC nearly playing finals in their first year. Freo had to wait nearly 10 years to play a final and continued to develop at a snail pace while WC went at light speed.

Freo had the historical links to be a powerhouse but they never harnessed them in the beginning so trying to develop them later after developing a bit of a losing culture was always going to be hard.

But ur right its taken way too long. The majority of BF posters care deeply about the club and don't tolerate complacency but perhaps maybe some sections of the freo supporter base are too comfortable with losing?

While Neesham was polarising as a first coach he did in the early years create a brand for Freo as a fast paced attacking and entertaining team. In fact some of his moves were at the time seen as audacious in their innovation.

But Freo have lost that point of difference over the years. Dreary is a word that comes to mind to describe them now.

 

[its free real estate]

While Neesham was polarising as a first coach he did in the early years create a brand for Freo as a fast paced attacking and entertaining team. In fact some of his moves were at the time seen as audacious in their innovation.

But Freo have lost that point of difference over the years. Dreary is a word that comes to mind to describe them now.

Freo lost that point of difference 20 years ago, when Neesham traded out and delisted the likes of Abraham, Chisholm and Dhurrkay, among others, and Freo fell to second last.

Drum, Connolly and Harvey all fielded teams with a very different outlook to Neesham.

Neesham should have been sacked at the end of 1997 season after missing the finals.

 

[NZ_Tiger]

Awful colour and logo choices. Nothing to attract kids to choose them over a team called the eagles wearing colours close to the state flag. Only reason to be a dockers fan is that your likely to get a membership before you die.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kranky al]

Awful colour and logo choices. Nothing to attract kids to choose them over a team called the eagles wearing colours close to the state flag. Only reason to be a dockers fan is that your likely to get a membership before you die.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Got mates who bought dockers memberships for that reason - so they could at keast go watch footy - have dropped them as their memberships came up

 

[Freofalcon]

Got mates who bought dockers memberships for that reason - so they could at keast go watch footy - have dropped them as their memberships came up

Am I getting this right?

They were Eagles fans but became Dockers fans and now they are Eagles fans again.

 

[Smeg Head]

Am I getting this right?

They were Eagles fans but became Dockers fans and now they are Eagles fans again.
View attachment 579083

Currently on step two there yourself FF?

 

[Freofalcon]

Currently on step two there yourself FF?

Never followed the Eagles, champ.