West Coast Eagles.

[Sandgroper]

I see the West Coast finishing bottom four next season and tenth at the outside. I have been critical of their performance at the trades and feel they are now weaker than last season. I accept that they must rebuild and are doing so, but in the immediate future they will struggle. I see a real difficulty in kicking winning scores. With no player capable of being dominant across half forward they will stuggle. The loss of White will reduce the number and quality of oppurtunites provided for Cummings. Losing Gehrig is a good thing but it will put even more pressure on Cummings. Meaning it is basically a Forward strucure of- Cummings, Matera to rove and bit parts by anyone else.
It will be a question of whether other players can "bob up" often enough to win games.
What do others think?

 

[Richmondfan#1]

Is the only player you know,Cummings??

I hope you realise that the eagles squad isn't just Cummings. Cousins will obviously play a major part in 2001 as will Jakovich. Gardiner and the Matera brothers will have to stand up, Braun,Morrison and Rintoul will be helpful through the midfield, McIntosh is a strong defender and hopefully Wirrpunda will return to his best form.

Although, I feel West Coast have a made a few costly mistakes in the draft. And with Bluey McKenna gone, who knows what the eagles will achieve next year. Maybe not the 8 bu if injury free, they will give some teams a scare.


[This message has been edited by Richmondfan#1 (edited 23 September 2000).]

 

[Dan26]

West Coast will struggle in 2001.

They don't kick big enough scores, and they have lost one of their best forwards. Gehrig might be a maligned player, but he is a great talent and he will be missed (despite those who think to the contrary)

I think they are a wodden spoon "contender" for 2001. Is that a big statement ? Who are the challengers for the wooden spoon then ? I mean someones got to get it, right ? St.Kilda won't, not with Blight and their big pick ups. Freo are improving and have great young talent.

I think it's probably out of Collingwood, Port and West Coast. Port and West Coast will inevitably win a few of their home games, so the Pies appear favourites, but don't write of the Weagles as a "chance" for the wooden spoon.

After all, they finished 13th in 2001, only half a win ahead of 15th placed Collingwood.

So, the Eagles were half a win ahead of 15th after Round 22. Sounds like a wooden spoon "contender" (yes contender only) for 2001.

 

[Sandgroper]

I also believe that Port Collingwood and WQest Coast will fight for the wooden spoon.
To Richmond fan, of course Cummings is not the only player I know. He is not even the most important player in my opinion. I am merely pointing out that the forward line is very weak when Cummings and Matera are the only players who look capable of winning their positions. With the loss of White and Gehrig I believe Cummings will be less effective, further reducing West Coasts chances of kicking winning totals.

 

[jod23]

I think we'll be ok we still have a lot of talent in the team. As for scoring yes we will struggle but if Merenda can get fit and contribute that would be a big plus. I also think that we should play Donnelly at CHF hes a good lead can take a strong overhead mark and can kick goals, i hope Judge goes with him at that position cos i think he'll do very well. As for the spoon nah never West Coast and woodenspoon dont go in the same sentence together its the LAW! hehe Well with any luck i think Collingwooden will take it out.

 

[WCE2000]

You all seem to be forgetting the fact that in the latter half of the season, our squad was depleted with injuries.
After Round 10, we were well place in the middle of the field, on the road to make to our 11th consecutive finals series.
Then disaster struck, we started a 3 or 4 injuries to some of big name players, but within a couple of weeks we had 11 of our best 14 out.
We weren't able to put a team close to our best in the final half of the season. So with all those players back we should be competitive next year, definetaly not going for the wooden spoon.
Dan24: St Kilda are going to struggle to get of the bottom in 2001. They have close to the worst list in the history of VFL/AFL football. Their strong point is their midfield, but with Harvey and Burke ageing it doesn't have the impact it did in 1997. Their forward line and backline are totally crap. I would be suprised if they don't get the wooden spoon again.
They may have gotten some good players. Hamill is their best pickup, Gehrig is, on paper, a good player. 2nd strongest in the competition, one of the fastest in the competition, but just doesn't have the attitude to be a footy player. Steven Lawrence is not half-bad, but is far from a superstar. Craig Callaghan, probably wont play many games. THey do have 3 of the top 4 picks, but how often have top draft picks proved to be disapoting. They were so far behind in 2000, that i think it will take more than 1 good trading season to get back of the bottom.

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For all your footballing needs be sure to visit my AFL web-site at http://www.geocities.com/eastsydney5/index.html

[This message has been edited by WCE2000 (edited 24 September 2000).]

 

[Savatage]

Boy you continue to make some stupid statements WCE-2000.

If you think St.Kilda has the worst list in VFL/AFL history, then you SERIOUSLY need your head checked.

Read the bloody list PRIOR to the big recruiting & priority draft picks & it was a good list that underachieved greatly.

Meanwhile, I too am of the opinion that the Coasters will be bottom 4 material this season without a doubt.

Freo will improve out of site, for sure, as will the Saints & the Eagles have lost too many quality and experienced players to dent an already average list to begin with.

 

[GoEagles]

After 10 years of the Mick Malthouse playing style and with the changes to the club (players retiring, new rookies being added to the list) the Eagles seemed to be missing the middle age 50 game player bracket. Give Ken Judge his credit, he's now trying to rebuild the side for future years to be successful. I'm never going to put down my side and 'predict' they would be bottom 4 again. They did beat 2 teams by over 100 points this season, and with a few players coming back (Cummings, Wirra, Braun, Matera, Rintoul) we have the potential to shake a few teams.

As for the problems at CHF, Unfortunately White and Gherig didnt play too well this year. Not too sure if they just had an off year but the eagles wouldn't be doing themselves any favours keeping them both in the same spots - they had to try something different. If Sirra can rotate with Gardiner for CHF (both can kick goals) and with a fit Merenda coming back to Perth - hopefully It will increase our goal power.

 

[WCE2000]

Can you tell me a worse list then this, excluding Fitzroy 96. The only decent players are Burke, Harvey and Thompson. Leowe is a has-been, Everitt was injured most of the year.
Who else is good for St Kilda, maybe it is you who is making the stupid comments.

BTW, what other comments have i made that have been stupid.

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For all your footballing needs be sure to visit my AFL web-site at http://www.geocities.com/eastsydney5/index.html

[This message has been edited by WCE2000 (edited 24 September 2000).]

 

[Visro]

If you are looking for a very pessimistic post just look for sandgroper. And to the pessimistic on this forum maybe you could give him your name. I sometimes wonder if he actually supports WC the way he goes on about how bad they will be. CHEER UP MATE!!!
We still have a good list u know, a bit young on experience but if you go look at the WC website and look at the players you will notice there are still a lot of players that are good and a lot of youngsters coming through like Hunter and Glass. All I ask is that you stop being so pessimistic, if you cant say something nice, dont say anything at all.

 

[Dan26]

For what it's worth, I think St.Kilda had the most talented wooden spoon team on paper I've ever seen. they groosly underachieved. Only Brisbane of 1998 comes close. Brisbane had a lot of talent in 1998 for a wooden spoon team.

There is a lot of talent at St.Kilda, but "something" went missing in 2000. Remember they finisehd on top in 1997 and 6th in 1998.

 

[James2]

I think WCE will struggle in the coming years.

Whilst the eagles side was depleted by injuries, this only served to highlight the lack of depth in their lineup.

The last half of the year showed that the eagles have very few talented youngsters to replace the aging stars of 92 and 94. There are also very few established players who perform consistently apart from Cousins, Wirrupunda and Morrison. In other words, their list is RS!!

Also, those thinking that Ken Judge will establish a different game plan to MM better think again. If anything it might be worse. Ken Judge is not an attacking coach, his record at Hawthorn proves this. WCE's lack of scoring power is not likely to bring about a change in philosophy.

I would be suprised if they made the eight.

[This message has been edited by James2 (edited 24 September 2000).]

 

[S.Robbo]

West Coast will finish bottom 4 in 2001...no doubt. Losing White and Gehrig will hurt, as will the retirement of Bluey and the ageing/injuries of Peter Matera. Just reckon you can't kick enough goals when your relying on Cummings and Philip Matera to kick your bulk.

Sure West Coast have some quality players, but just think their a little scarce of them where their needed most...up forward!

 

[WCE2000]

St Kilda and talent dont belong in the same sentence, unless your talking about lack of it.
Who is good from St Kilda.
I will agree with the statement: They have one of the best midfields from a wooden spoon team - Everitt, Burke, Harvey and Thompson is a very good midfield for any team, even if Burke and Harvey are ageing.
But they're forward line is crap as is their backline.
Apart from the 4 forementioned players who else is good:
Hayes - talented, hasn't done anything major yet.
Jones - done nothing since 97
Wakelin twin - not bad, but nothing special
Hughdton - done nothing
Hall - just big, apart from that crap
Heatley - as with Hall
Moyle - one of the best 1st year players, but still yet to prove himself
Peckett, Delaney - done nothing in the AFL yet.

Apart from their midfielders, there is no-one else that would be class a top-line footballer.

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For all your footballing needs be sure to visit my AFL web-site at http://www.geocities.com/eastsydney5/index.html

 

[Savatage]

My you're one bitter person WCE-2000!!!

If you are using the injury excuse for your WCE for having a bad year then that entitles EVERY OTHER TEAM in the AFL the same excuse.

How many spaces higher did your world beaters finish from St.Kilda this year again?

How many good players did your team lose this year?

How many good players did St.Kilda manage to pick up ALREADY?

Nothing else needs to be said.

I have nothing against the West Coast Eagles but I suggest you worry about your own back yard before you criticise others.

 

[WCE2000]

OK, lets get this right, set the record straight.
We were going very strongly mid way through the season, then after that our squad had detoriarated from injuries.
How does this entitle every team to that excuse. we lost 11 players for the game against Brisbane. I would like to see St Kilda play with 11 of their best footballers out. I don't think Essendon would beat many clubs with 11 players out.
Yes, in the end we only finished 3 places higher (and 5 wins higher), which was disapoting, but when did i once indicated we were world beaters.
How many good players to we lose??? White, theres 1, McKenna, theres 2, and thats pretty much it. Oh know we lost Metropolis, i mean, how can we even win a game now with out Metro. Gehrig, can be a match-winner, but more often than not doesn't play up to his potential.
There is 4 players we have lost, 2 are good footballers, 1 can be good and the other is average, but nothing special.
How many footballers have you picked up - Hamill, not bad, but you can't base a game around him. Lawrence, talented, good pick-up, but not a great player. Capuano, north reject, won't do much for you guys because of Everitt. Callaghan, nothing special. Gehrig, mr. incosistent.
I'm not all that worried about West Coast in 2001. We still have a good midfield, we will need to stay out of the injuries. But we can still cause some upsets.

on that Metropolis thing, he is not a bad player but hardly a match-winner.
I think our club is still much better place than Saints.

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For all your footballing needs be sure to visit my AFL web-site at http://www.geocities.com/eastsydney5/index.html

 

[Savatage]

You can think what you want to think, that's the beauty of free speech....HOWEVER to make a totally uninformed & RIDICULOUS statement being that St.Kilda has the worst team list in the history of the AFL/VFL is just ludicrous!

I know how incorrect that statement is, regardless of what scenario you try to suggest.

You want to talk injuries I can too, but it's irrelevant!

Make sure you check facts before you make stupid accusations.

 

[WCE2000]

HOW do you know it is a redicolous comment.
Seen as though you know the facts so well, can you please tell me a team with a worst list, i asked that question before and am still waiting for an answer,.
Please exclude Fitzroy 1996, i dont think you can take much pride in being better than a team which barely had enough money to field a team.

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For all your footballing needs be sure to visit my AFL web-site at http://www.geocities.com/eastsydney5/index.html

[This message has been edited by WCE2000 (edited 24 September 2000).]

[This message has been edited by WCE2000 (edited 24 September 2000).]

 

[eagleskickass]

I won't criticise other teams, sure, EAGLES HAD A CRAP YEAR as i said in one of my previous posts but we did have a really bad year with injuries, it aint an excuse, its the truth. Now you all say that we had huge losses of White, Gehrig and McKenna. Right, Gehrig played about 1 good game, the rest he rarely got much of a touch. He may be a good footballer for saints but he just didn't want to do well for Eagles. McKenna didn't play much and before the half way mark when the bad injuries struck we were doing well without him. Prior will fit in great to fill that spot. If and this is a big if Merenda is fit then there is a good forward with cummings and ph.matera. Donnelly can play up forward and is good. Peter Matera may play up forward and has been playing well there, they just tried to play him elsewhere but he is to old for his old positions. Plus we are trying for a key forward in the Draft and Gardiner is working on his kicking. We played the most debut players than we have ever played before but now they will get better with more experience. I don't think we will make the finals but if you really analyse the team they are not really bottom 4 contenders.

 

[Savatage]

I don't have to DAN24 already summed it up beautifully.

However, if i NEED to waste my energy on you then I could list out all the all australian/state representative players that are at the club and it goes a hell of a lot way beyond Harvey, Burke & Thompson as you so eloquently put it.

This team is a high percentage of the 1997 lineup and 1998 lineups that achieved so much.

If you want to argue on the worst COACH in the history of VFL/AFL football then you have a point my friend.

Anything beyond that is pure crap!

 

[WCE2000]

How did Dan tell us who is the worst team in history.
MAYBE, your afraid of the truth.
Can you please tell me, apart from Fitzroy 96, who was worse than St Kilda 2000.

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[Savatage]

Hey I answered the question...

I think YOU'RE in denial pal.

You STATED that my team has the worst playing list in the VFL/AFL history.

I just told you all the facts, that it's very much the same combination was was successful in the 1997/1998 seasons.

Your arguement wasn't about poorly coached sides in which I would agree with you.

Give up what ever you're trying to prove, you're wrong!

 

[Westy Boy]

WCE2000- you are being very harsh

How can u say a that a team which;

* consists of a core of players who were grand finalists (should have been premiership) team,
* have just experienced the best trading coup ever (post salary cap), with probably another big name coming soon in the pre season draft
* have still got the first 2 picks in what seems to be a very strong draft (especially early)
* a genius coach entering,
* and possibly most importantly of all, the whole club/players feeling unbeleivable air of enthusiasm entering into next season (more so than any other club), as opposed to the culture of failure which usually surrounds teams such as the saints and the dogs

has the worst ever VFL/AFL list, and will finish bottom

There is not a snow flakes chance in hell of St Kilda finishing on the bottom as you suggested earlier. I would be suprised to see them not make the 8 actually.

As a doggies supporter, I am actually very envious (could say downright jealous actually) of the position the saints are in.

You criticised the Capuano trade b/c of Everit, but this is actually the main reason they got him. Having a known ruckman releases Everit (at the start of the season- against geelong 9 goals etc etc) to the forward line.

You criticised their forward line- I would be very happy to see ours consisting of players with even half the talent of Gherig/Hamill/Everitt/Lowe/Hall alternating-I know the dogs defence won't be able to cope, and we aren't alone their.

 

[WCE2000]

All your points WestyBoy are saying that they are not going to be bad in 2001.
I still think they will struggle to get of the bottom in 2001, but they will have a stronger list than this year, obviously.
But in 2000, they're list was utterly pathetic. You can not deny that that is why they only won 2 games.

As for a team being made up of Grand Final players. That was 3 years Ago. Hello, Wake Up, 3 years ago.
a week is a long time in football, 3 years is an eternity.

Savatage, how am i wrong. You have not answered anything.
When did you answer my question:
Which team in the AFL/VFL (excluding Fitzroy 96) has had a worse list than St Kilda 2000, and why.
You haven't answered that yet, because there is no answer.
They're list in 2000, was the worst list i can remember. Of course, excluding Fitzroy. as i said, I dont think you can take to much pride in being better than a side which could bearly afford to field a team.
You said it's very much the same combination of teams in 1997/98, it is 2000 now, not 1997!!!!!!!!!!!

In 2001, they won't have as bad a list, but they were so far behind in 2000, it's going to take more than 1 good trading season, to get off the bottom.

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For all your footballing needs be sure to visit my AFL web-site at http://www.geocities.com/eastsydney5/index.html

 

[sainter]

WCE2000,

To think I wasted time going to a website produced by someone who has such a lowly opinion of my club.

Firstly it is damn hard debating with other people on the topic of whether St Kilda grossly underachieved or had the worst squad in history. But you did bring it up so I will swallow my pride and set this straight because you have hit a nerve.

Anyway, I have to agree with every point Savatage has made.

We had a disgraceful year this year. But to say it was the worst squad ever is a amazing. No, stupid would be more like it. Even "rediculous" or however else you type it.

I don't claim to know how strong or weak each of the AFL/VFL sides were throughout the course of the last century. But speaking about St Kilda, I could give you at least twenty five OR thirty squads that were weaker as compared to the other sides than this year. Were you alive during the 1980s? We had some very poor teams then. Were you aware that we won 6 straight wooden spoons from 1897 - 1902? Gee, there must have been a few ordinary squads there. That's life, guys like Trevor Barker made times like that bearable.

But enough of that. I am sure that a lot of people who have supported their teams all their lives and know their clubs history can talk about some very weak squads they had. Just part and parcel about being a football supporter. The point is that it beyond comprehension for you to say that our squad was one of the worst in history. You have no idea!

Anyway, some of your descriptions of saints players are also quite ridiculous.

Capuano won't be any good because of Everitt? What the hell is that supposed to mean? Have you heard of ruck depth? Do you think it is beneficial for a club to have only two big men at the whole club? You seem to think you know everything so I am sure you know our only big men capable of playing ruck are Peter Everitt and Tim Elliott. I don't think Tim will be at the club much longer and therefore we need to boost our big men department. Also it will allow Everitt to drift forward.

Go through the other teams
- Essedon - Barnes and Alessio
- Melbourne - White and Symmonds
- Carlton - Allan and Porter
- Kangaroos - McKernan, Burton and formerly Capuano
- Bulldogs - Darcy and Wynd (not anymore)
Do I need to go anymore?
- WCE - Gardiner and Turnbull?

As for Barry Hall being crap, have you watched any football this year? Hopefully one of Tim Watsons legacys will be the incredible improvement in Hall - both in ability AND temperament.

Max Hudghton was great in defence this year and only struggled when forced to play on the forwards twice his size.

Hayes has enormous potential and was left to shoulder too much responsibility. He will have a lot more assistance next year - Burke in the middle more, a fit Robert Harvey and along with Thompson, Callaghan and kids like Beetham and Moyle.

I have gone on a little bit but it is most annoying when people who seem to think they know everything attack a club who they so obviously shown they know little about.

Sorry to Eaglefan, Jod23 and other eagle fans but for WCE2000's benefit, I hope the eagles struggle big time next year.