Yeah, thanks Sainter!
Look, I honestly don't know how we'll go next year. On paper, it will be tough, but the last season we weren't supposed to contest the finals was '96, where we went out in the finals after being cheated out of a home final
You just never know how things are going to turn out.
We've been over this before, but while injuries can't be used as an excuse for poor form, they certainly do affect a team, both on and off the ground. Some of the players we'll hopefully get back (Wirra etc) can be stars.
Anyway, time will tell. We have good young kids, maybe they'll do a Haselby or Cousins, or maybe not. Either way we're only biding time till Coach Worsfold and his assistants Bluey, Muddy and Pykey come 'home'.
Look, I honestly don't know how we'll go next year. On paper, it will be tough, but the last season we weren't supposed to contest the finals was '96, where we went out in the finals after being cheated out of a home final
We've been over this before, but while injuries can't be used as an excuse for poor form, they certainly do affect a team, both on and off the ground. Some of the players we'll hopefully get back (Wirra etc) can be stars.
Anyway, time will tell. We have good young kids, maybe they'll do a Haselby or Cousins, or maybe not. Either way we're only biding time till Coach Worsfold and his assistants Bluey, Muddy and Pykey come 'home'.
Hey Eaglefan,
Don't think I was bagging the West Coast team in any way with my post.
I actually like the Eagles.
WCE-2000 said some pretty stupid things as I'm sure you can see above & I'm sure you'd react the same way if someone was spinning crap about your team when they have no idea what they're talking about.
Don't think I was bagging the West Coast team in any way with my post.
I actually like the Eagles.
WCE-2000 said some pretty stupid things as I'm sure you can see above & I'm sure you'd react the same way if someone was spinning crap about your team when they have no idea what they're talking about.
Thats all you can say isn't it.
Okay, I will set out my argument for why St Kilda'a team of 2000 was the close to the worst of all-time.
1. Results: They finished with 2 wins for the season, 5 less than any other team. They had the worst attack in the competition, however not by a lot (31 points less than Fremantle). The worst defense in the competition.
2. Playing List was shocking: They had some good players through the midfield such as Everitt, Harvey, Burke and Thompson. However the attack is terrible. Loewe had a terrible 1st half of the season and wasn't much better in the 2nd, Hall and Heatley are very inconsistent at Full-Forward and had no small crumbing players, Sierakowski has limited talent but plays with heart. The defence wasn't much chop either. Wakelin twins and Hudghton rotating through the key position. They're 2 or 3 inches smaller than most key forwards.
3. Coach - Tim Watson. Might have been a great player but should stay away from the coaching, his tactics were terrible and even Saints supporters have admitted him to being the worst coach ever.
4. The Statsitics -
11 times lossed by over 40 Points
3 times lost by less than 20 Points
19 times Conceded over 100 points
6 times scored over 100 Points
3 times conceded 25 goals
6 times failed to score over 10 goals (another 2 times kicked 11 goals)
On average kicked 6 goals a match less than opposition
5. The other contendors
Sydney (1993). 1 win, although they were in a MAJOR rebuilding stage.
Brisbane (1991). 3 wins, very poor list, put in a deadset shocker year.
St Kilda (1986). 2 wins, Barker's last year. Pretty poor team
Melbourne (1981). 1 win, this is one of the big contendors. Were deadset shocking.
North Melbourne (1972). 1 win, had a very ordinary year. Weren't that bad considering they won 11 in 1973.
Fitzroy (1963-1966). Won only 6 games in these 4 years (of which 4 of those were won in 1965). This is probably St Kilda's saving grace.
Hawthorn (1950). failed to win. Hawthorn's struggling years, where they won a lot of Wooden Spoons.
St Kilda (1947-1948). 4 wins in 2 seasons. Very average team. Toss up between this years and the current team for worst SK team ever.
Geelong (1944-1945). Only won 3 games because half their squad pulled out to WWII.
North (1934-1935). 1 win in 2 seasons, right up there.
There we have it. St Kilda would be definetaly in the worst X.
1. North 1934-1935
2. Melbourne 1981
3. Fitzroy 1963-1966
4. Sydney 1993
5. Hawthorn 1950
6. St Kilda 2000
There we have, maybe a litte over the top being the worst, but there's nothing to be proud of from that evidence.
Now can you please give your evidence to why St Kilda's list is not totally crap. By the Way, the Edivence can not be calling me a moron.
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[This message has been edited by WCE2000 (edited 25 September 2000).]
- Apr 2, 2000
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Hey Sainter dont wish bad things on the Eagles just cos one of our supporters is making stupid comments, there WCE2000 comments i like the Saints and i think they'll do well next year, hopefully so will the Eagles.
But if you didnt hate the Eagles before wce2000 comments then dont hate them jus cos of foolish comments.
And WCE2000 you mentioned some teams not winning a game the whole season isnt that worst than winning 2 games so the Saints cant have been that bad. And remember we drew with them early in the season before our injuries so what does that say about our team!
But if you didnt hate the Eagles before wce2000 comments then dont hate them jus cos of foolish comments.
And WCE2000 you mentioned some teams not winning a game the whole season isnt that worst than winning 2 games so the Saints cant have been that bad. And remember we drew with them early in the season before our injuries so what does that say about our team!
Sainter
Take heart, I think you guys are going to finish in front of the Weagles, you have drafted very well, the Weagles haven't, players didn't want to go & play for them & a few good players they had have left, there seems to be problems inside their camp which I think will affect them greatly next year.
Good luck Sainters you deserve it.
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Mantis
Take heart, I think you guys are going to finish in front of the Weagles, you have drafted very well, the Weagles haven't, players didn't want to go & play for them & a few good players they had have left, there seems to be problems inside their camp which I think will affect them greatly next year.
Good luck Sainters you deserve it.
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Mantis
Sainter:
You know you offend me so greatly by saying 'i hope for your sake the eagles do bad in 2001'.
Savatage:
What makes you say i dont know what i'm talking about as well. I've provided evidence, put out a well thought argument, but still you refuse to answer the question.
The fact is that that St Kilda's team in 2000 was very close to the worst team ever, and although their squad will obviously be better in 2001, with priority draft picks and good trading, plus a better coach, however, St Kilda where so far behind in 2000, that it takes more than 1 good trading season to come back from that type of position.
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For all your footballing needs be sure to visit my AFL web-site at http://www.geocities.com/eastsydney5/index.html
[This message has been edited by WCE2000 (edited 25 September 2000).]
You know you offend me so greatly by saying 'i hope for your sake the eagles do bad in 2001'.
Savatage:
What makes you say i dont know what i'm talking about as well. I've provided evidence, put out a well thought argument, but still you refuse to answer the question.
The fact is that that St Kilda's team in 2000 was very close to the worst team ever, and although their squad will obviously be better in 2001, with priority draft picks and good trading, plus a better coach, however, St Kilda where so far behind in 2000, that it takes more than 1 good trading season to come back from that type of position.
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For all your footballing needs be sure to visit my AFL web-site at http://www.geocities.com/eastsydney5/index.html
[This message has been edited by WCE2000 (edited 25 September 2000).]
Could you please tell me the reasons that makes you think St Kilda had a half-decent in squad in 2000.
We'll go over their squad:
Defence: The Wakelins, are reasonably players. However as key defenders they are simply too small. However, the are quite reliable and consistent. Hudghton, he is simply not strong enough and altough he is tall enough, he 'doesn't play tall' to play as at halfback. Carr, Young and Delaney are the small backs in the squad. Carr is alright, but not great, Young had a good 1999 but put in a shocking season this year. Delaney has been around for a while, but just isn't really that high quality. Peckett is nothing special, anyway with half-a-brain can see this guy struggles in the AFL.
Midfield: Very strong, as i've already pointed out. Everitt, Thompson, Burke and Harvey is a very good midfield. Even if Harvey (16 games) and Everitt (15 games) were injured for a large part of the season. With those 2 out, the Saints struggled often using Peckett or Sziller to replace them. Sziller is one of the more underrated players for the Saints, but never going to have the impact of a top-line player.
Attack: Small Forward is a big problem for the Saints, although Sziller is not that bad, they're crumbing up front has a lot to be desired. Leowe at CHF is a has-been, and had a very average 2000, especially the first half. Hall and Heatley rotating through Full Forward is not bad, but not great as well. Both are terribly inconsistent, which is why Everitt was often thrown into attack.
Depth: When the team struggles to win a game with its strongest 22 out on the paddock it is obviously won't have great depth. There are still some quite talented youngsters in the squad, Beetham and in particular Brett Moyle are quite good players. Hayes needs to lift in 2001, one feels it is his crunch season, to decide wether he will become one of the elite players in the AFL in the future.
------------------
For all your footballing needs be sure to visit my AFL web-site at http://www.geocities.com/eastsydney5/index.html
We'll go over their squad:
Defence: The Wakelins, are reasonably players. However as key defenders they are simply too small. However, the are quite reliable and consistent. Hudghton, he is simply not strong enough and altough he is tall enough, he 'doesn't play tall' to play as at halfback. Carr, Young and Delaney are the small backs in the squad. Carr is alright, but not great, Young had a good 1999 but put in a shocking season this year. Delaney has been around for a while, but just isn't really that high quality. Peckett is nothing special, anyway with half-a-brain can see this guy struggles in the AFL.
Midfield: Very strong, as i've already pointed out. Everitt, Thompson, Burke and Harvey is a very good midfield. Even if Harvey (16 games) and Everitt (15 games) were injured for a large part of the season. With those 2 out, the Saints struggled often using Peckett or Sziller to replace them. Sziller is one of the more underrated players for the Saints, but never going to have the impact of a top-line player.
Attack: Small Forward is a big problem for the Saints, although Sziller is not that bad, they're crumbing up front has a lot to be desired. Leowe at CHF is a has-been, and had a very average 2000, especially the first half. Hall and Heatley rotating through Full Forward is not bad, but not great as well. Both are terribly inconsistent, which is why Everitt was often thrown into attack.
Depth: When the team struggles to win a game with its strongest 22 out on the paddock it is obviously won't have great depth. There are still some quite talented youngsters in the squad, Beetham and in particular Brett Moyle are quite good players. Hayes needs to lift in 2001, one feels it is his crunch season, to decide wether he will become one of the elite players in the AFL in the future.
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For all your footballing needs be sure to visit my AFL web-site at http://www.geocities.com/eastsydney5/index.html
I think you will find that the eagles will do really well next year. With a change in guard, ie, Jackovich captain and Braun and Cousins and VCs, you will see a much more focused team effort from the boys.
To all of you who are doubting the Eagles of 2001, you will be surprised.
To all of you who are doubting the Eagles of 2001, you will be surprised.
Eagleheart
Debutant
WCE2000 I think the eagles could use you to give the boys a pep talk pre game about persiverance and determination.
I have to ask the question
Are you Tim Watson
I have to ask the question
Are you Tim Watson
sainter
ENGLISH PREMIER LEAGUE
WCE2000,
I think Savatage summed up the feelings I have towards you as well.
For one thing, we were disagreeing with your belief that the 2000 squad was the worst ever. By arguing that, we were talking about the calibre and ability of the players and NOT the amount of wins/losses we actually had. Your points about how much we lost by are totally irrelevant.
And besides, a lot of your observations are just plain WRONG.
Let's see,
*Carr is not a small defender - he is approx 6"3 and a strong mark
*You claimed Loewe had an average year, particularly the first half. He was leading the competition up until he was suspended for 4 weeks and breaking his hand against Essendon. That was Rd 12
* Sziller is NOT a crumbing forward. He played a few games up forward in 1998, including the 6 goal haul against the swans. However he is a negative, run-with type midfielder
* Hall has had a great past few years and was a shining light up forward. His improvement has been excellent. To say he is crap shows your knowledge.
* Shane Wakelin only played four games this year, out with a knee injury
If you are going to examine our list, why did you conveniently overlook kids like Jason Blake who made is debut against the bulldogs and held his place for the rest of the year. A 19 year old guy who will be a future key defender. Another kid like Steven Baker who is a little tough midfielder and thrashed his former idol in Garry Hocking in only his 5th game. What about Brett Knowles? He had 4 BOG performances in the VFL earlier in the year before earning a promotion. He didn't miss a game after that. James Begley is a young player nominated by Tim Watson as a future captain. A good wrap for a defender who has had his first two years decimated by shoulder injuries. Jason Cripps will be making his long-awaited comeback next year. As saints supporters, we can hardly remember his exciting dashes out of defence. Chad Davis is another youngster who has showed he has a future in the big league. Fred Campbell is only 20 and anyone that he has seen him play knows that when he bulks up a little more, has unlimited potential. Even Sean Charles, who hardly had a pre-season, ended the season in exciting form and showed that he could be a force with a full pre-season. And what about Aussie Jones. No one can deny his talent and if Malcolm Blight can help him to recapture that form, no one can.
To everyone else reading this post, I am VERY sorry to go on this much about our list. It is just that if WCE2000 thinks our squad of 2000 was the worst squad ever, he deserves to know some of the up and coming youngsters that are a part of the squad.
Perhaps he will just ignore me again. I don't mind, as saints fans we are all looking forward to the start of a new era in our clubs history.
[This message has been edited by sainter (edited 25 September 2000).]
I think Savatage summed up the feelings I have towards you as well.
For one thing, we were disagreeing with your belief that the 2000 squad was the worst ever. By arguing that, we were talking about the calibre and ability of the players and NOT the amount of wins/losses we actually had. Your points about how much we lost by are totally irrelevant.
And besides, a lot of your observations are just plain WRONG.
Let's see,
*Carr is not a small defender - he is approx 6"3 and a strong mark
*You claimed Loewe had an average year, particularly the first half. He was leading the competition up until he was suspended for 4 weeks and breaking his hand against Essendon. That was Rd 12
* Sziller is NOT a crumbing forward. He played a few games up forward in 1998, including the 6 goal haul against the swans. However he is a negative, run-with type midfielder
* Hall has had a great past few years and was a shining light up forward. His improvement has been excellent. To say he is crap shows your knowledge.
* Shane Wakelin only played four games this year, out with a knee injury
If you are going to examine our list, why did you conveniently overlook kids like Jason Blake who made is debut against the bulldogs and held his place for the rest of the year. A 19 year old guy who will be a future key defender. Another kid like Steven Baker who is a little tough midfielder and thrashed his former idol in Garry Hocking in only his 5th game. What about Brett Knowles? He had 4 BOG performances in the VFL earlier in the year before earning a promotion. He didn't miss a game after that. James Begley is a young player nominated by Tim Watson as a future captain. A good wrap for a defender who has had his first two years decimated by shoulder injuries. Jason Cripps will be making his long-awaited comeback next year. As saints supporters, we can hardly remember his exciting dashes out of defence. Chad Davis is another youngster who has showed he has a future in the big league. Fred Campbell is only 20 and anyone that he has seen him play knows that when he bulks up a little more, has unlimited potential. Even Sean Charles, who hardly had a pre-season, ended the season in exciting form and showed that he could be a force with a full pre-season. And what about Aussie Jones. No one can deny his talent and if Malcolm Blight can help him to recapture that form, no one can.
To everyone else reading this post, I am VERY sorry to go on this much about our list. It is just that if WCE2000 thinks our squad of 2000 was the worst squad ever, he deserves to know some of the up and coming youngsters that are a part of the squad.
Perhaps he will just ignore me again. I don't mind, as saints fans we are all looking forward to the start of a new era in our clubs history.
[This message has been edited by sainter (edited 25 September 2000).]
Sorta torn on this one. Part of me wants to side with my old mate 'sainter' but much as it pains to say WCE2000 has made some relevant points.
There is no point in saying underachieved or such like, IF that bare facts show that you have 2 wins for the season. In anyones language thats pretty abysmal for a league side.
Sure injury didnt help, nor did Watsons ineptitude as a coach. Yet for all that some of the Saints players did look dreadful. Im talking the likes of some like Brown, the Wakelins,Peckett,Young that DID get them to a GF only a few years back. That this group is now (again sorry sainter) are either no longer at the club (Wakelins traded,Brown Young delisted or i would expect them to be from whats been mentioned in dispatches since Blights appointment) or simply fallen as a player like Peckett has. It shows a club to be very poor in playing stock and depth.
However there can be good to come out of it. The club has been agressive in its off season recruiting. It went for the best available and has pretty much got what it went after. It must now consolidate and MUST achieve sucsess with the structures it now has put in place.
sainter me old mate. Its hard to take (Knights wasnt that long ago for me either)
and none of us like hearing the bad about our sides (except tiger fans who get off on bashing their own).
Look ive seen way worse sides than the saints of this year. The saints of the early eighties were the worst sides ive EVER seen. Party boys only those blokes. The Doggies,Dons (yep even the Dons back in the mid 70's were terrible) and Hawks of only a little while back
were not very flash either.
But WCE get your history right. If your going back in time were are University?
Anyway both sides have a reasonable case for argument. I reckon we should call in Judge Judy and let her handle it, shes smart just ask her. Figjjam F*** im a good judge, just ask me
There is no point in saying underachieved or such like, IF that bare facts show that you have 2 wins for the season. In anyones language thats pretty abysmal for a league side.
Sure injury didnt help, nor did Watsons ineptitude as a coach. Yet for all that some of the Saints players did look dreadful. Im talking the likes of some like Brown, the Wakelins,Peckett,Young that DID get them to a GF only a few years back. That this group is now (again sorry sainter) are either no longer at the club (Wakelins traded,Brown Young delisted or i would expect them to be from whats been mentioned in dispatches since Blights appointment) or simply fallen as a player like Peckett has. It shows a club to be very poor in playing stock and depth.
However there can be good to come out of it. The club has been agressive in its off season recruiting. It went for the best available and has pretty much got what it went after. It must now consolidate and MUST achieve sucsess with the structures it now has put in place.
sainter me old mate. Its hard to take (Knights wasnt that long ago for me either)
Look ive seen way worse sides than the saints of this year. The saints of the early eighties were the worst sides ive EVER seen. Party boys only those blokes. The Doggies,Dons (yep even the Dons back in the mid 70's were terrible) and Hawks of only a little while back
But WCE get your history right. If your going back in time were are University?
Anyway both sides have a reasonable case for argument. I reckon we should call in Judge Judy and let her handle it, shes smart just ask her. Figjjam F*** im a good judge, just ask me
No Grendel I don't think you got it mate.
The point is NOT that the team was clearly the worst team this year (which they were)...the point is that we WERE not, ARE not & WILL NEVER BE the worst list in the history of the VFL/AFL football!
That's the point my friend!
Crap like that doesn't even deserve responding to!
The point is NOT that the team was clearly the worst team this year (which they were)...the point is that we WERE not, ARE not & WILL NEVER BE the worst list in the history of the VFL/AFL football!
That's the point my friend!
Crap like that doesn't even deserve responding to!
The saints were crap this year...no doubt about it but we can't really say if they were the crappest team ever. None of us were alive when football was in its early days and whats to say that one of those teams was the crappest team ever.
About the saints next year, they will improve but not drastically I don't think. Out of the players they drafted TWO are any good. The first two draft picks they get should play straight away next season to help their lack of depth, just like Freo did this year.
About the saints next year, they will improve but not drastically I don't think. Out of the players they drafted TWO are any good. The first two draft picks they get should play straight away next season to help their lack of depth, just like Freo did this year.
- Apr 2, 2000
- 74,862
- 25,052
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Other Teams
- Liverpool, Chicago Bulls.
Ok how about the Saints are the worst team of the Modern Era.
