West Coast/Hawthorn - Who will do better in 2017?

Which Bird of Prey finishes higher next year


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  • Poll closed .

hk89

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 12, 2009
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But you swapped out your picks for them?
We kept ours - and we will use them.

Yes, on spuds compared to T.Mitchell and JOM if history is any guide. This isn't an knock on your recruiters, just a reflection of how hard it is to convert picks into guns outside of the top 2 picks , which rarely completely fail. From pick 3 on has been a raffle. We've got 2 players who are massively above average for players picked from the draft (assuming JOM's knee is good to go), and we gave up a bunch of picks that on probability were not going to amount to two players anywhere near as good.

We drafted two first round picks last year, so we can afford to have a negative youth profile in our incomings next year, and TOM/JOM are not massively over draft age anyway, so in terms of mortgaging the future , this is a line that has been massively overplayed in the media and on bigfooty. I'm sam we lost both Lewis and Mitchell, but they were approaching time anyway, and overall I'm very pleased with our trade period (assuming JOM's knee is fine) , and glad we factored out the risk of the draft by choosing players who will very likely outperform at least half, if not 80% of the top 10 picks chosen this year across their careers.

I think it is pretty clear we are in more of a rebuild mode than WC. Look at the age of the 3 players we recruited. The only reason we got Vickery is because ceglar did his ACL (he provides some short term insurance on both Ceglar AND roughead). S.Mitchell is the biggest clue, when one team lets a contracted 34 year best and fairest winner leave, and the other takes him on, I don't think there can be much doubt which team is topping up, and which is in rebuild mode.
 
Jun 19, 2007
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For pick 88? Plus it was your coach that pushed him out, not as if we were actively seeking him. Nice way to not only disprove your own point but also prove your lack of understanding. He ws always coming over as a coach. Trading away a pick we would never use is of no consequence.



How's your team going for KPPs? Remind me of your draft picks next year again please in a draft that is strong on KPP.
Why are you getting so worked up at the suggestion of a top up? Eagles fans acting really offended here.

It doesn't matter what you pay to bring players in, if you're bringing in young players you're looking well into the future, if you're bringing in older players you're filling a gap for a year or two max.
 
For pick 88? Plus it was your coach that pushed him out, not as if we were actively seeking him. Nice way to not only disprove your own point but also prove your lack of understanding. He ws always coming over as a coach. Trading away a pick we would never use is of no consequence.



How's your team going for KPPs? Remind me of your draft picks next year again please in a draft that is strong on KPP.
You sound a bit pissed that West Coast could be seen to be topping up, but the fact is that Simpson has added readymade players to try and win that elusive flag over the last 24 months(Jetta, Redden, Vardy, Mitchell). There's nothing wrong with that. I don't get why you'd argue against it so hard as its what all clubs are aspiring too.



Every man and his dog has been telling Hawthorn fans that they were going to need to rebuild once the older players were gone and Clarkson has gotten on the front foot and traded two out at least 12 months before they would possibly be retired.

As for KPP's we have 5 developing in behind Premeirship players....but again, I find it a bit odd that people would query Clarkson and Wright on the decisions that they have made list-wise after what we have seen them put together over the last 5 years.

I mean, if there was to be one club in the comp that you wouldn't question their list decisions on, it would have to be the one that has played off in 4 straight Grand Finals up to this year, wouldn't it?
 
May 2, 2006
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Why are you getting so worked up at the suggestion of a top up? Eagles fans acting really offended here.

It doesn't matter what you pay to bring players in, if you're bringing in young players you're looking well into the future, if you're bringing in older players you're filling a gap for a year or two max.
"Eagles Fans being offended". Nothing offensive about you being wrong. Just make a correct statement and nobody will want to challenge it...
 
May 2, 2006
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You sound a bit pissed that West Coast could be seen to be topping up, but the fact is that Simpson has added readymade players to try and win that elusive flag over the last 24 months(Jetta, Redden, Vardy, Mitchell). There's nothing wrong with that. I don't get why you'd argue against it so hard as its what all clubs are aspiring too.

How am I pissed? I merely pointed out that LP was wrong in his assumption. I don't understand why this is a difficult concept to understand? WCE took a stopgap in Vardy to cover NN and Lycett and got given Mitchell for free to ease cap pressure for Hawks. I hardly see how this is "topping up" considering it's highly doubtful we'd have used either of those 2 picks in the draft. Semantics I know but at least post an opinion that actually makes sense before trying to defend it.
 
How am I pissed? I merely pointed out that LP was wrong in his assumption. I don't understand why this is a difficult concept to understand? WCE took a stopgap in Vardy to cover NN and Lycett and got given Mitchell for free to ease cap pressure for Hawks. I hardly see how this is "topping up" considering it's highly doubtful we'd have used either of those 2 picks in the draft. Semantics I know but at least post an opinion that actually makes sense before trying to defend it.
Grab a tissue mate. "Topping up" seems to have a negative connotation on Big Footy recently as it's been used to describe how some teams (notably Richmond) have topped up when they were no where near a flag and just ended up treading water.

West Coast have topped up in the past 2 trade periods and that is absolutely fine and the right thing for them to do. Your lot had one hand on the cup in 2015 and if you hadn't had to come up against such an experienced finals team you likely would have won it.

Hawthorn topped up at times over the past decade and it's paid dividends for them. There's no shame in picking up an older player to come in and be the difference in winning a flag. And Sam Mitchell for effectively pick 88 is great list management even if it really just got put in your lap.

Your team has topped up because they are close to winning a flag. Smile.
 
Jun 28, 2013
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For pick 88? Plus it was your coach that pushed him out, not as if we were actively seeking him. Nice way to not only disprove your own point but also prove your lack of understanding. He ws always coming over as a coach. Trading away a pick we would never use is of no consequence.



How's your team going for KPPs? Remind me of your draft picks next year again please in a draft that is strong on KPP.
s**t - you're right. Hmmm - could always get Joey Kennedy as a FA. He's pretty good
 
How am I pissed? I merely pointed out that LP was wrong in his assumption. I don't understand why this is a difficult concept to understand? WCE took a stopgap in Vardy to cover NN and Lycett and got given Mitchell for free to ease cap pressure for Hawks. I hardly see how this is "topping up" considering it's highly doubtful we'd have used either of those 2 picks in the draft. Semantics I know but at least post an opinion that actually makes sense before trying to defend it.
The bolded part is pretty funny.

It's like West Coast had nothing to do with the trade, and Mitchell just turned up there because Hawthorn needed him to.

Also, you seem to define topping up as what price was paid for the player in question, which seems a bit odd.

Adding players to the list which are seen to be the finishing touches or required roles that need to be filled is what topping up is all about.
 
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Jun 28, 2013
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I don't know what this argument is about. Surely WC posters are stoked to get Sammy as a Senior player/assistant coach. Probably won't get anywhere near the number of years we got with Burgers but Sammy could seriously be the missing piece next year and has the best footy brain going around when he starts coaching.
 
Jan 14, 2016
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I don't know what this argument is about. Surely WC posters are stoked to get Sammy as a Senior player/assistant coach. .

We are, I actually can't wait to see him 2017 playing in West Coast colours with that laser-guided missile kick.

West Coast supporters are just puzzled by those suggesting we went in to the trade period hoping to snag a 34 year old.
You wouldn't think the moderator would be the unenlightened obvious troll - what a poor footy brain.

As I said earlier, it is highly simplistic to label Hawthorn as rebuilding and West Coast as topping up - ignores the obvious truth that West Coast are going into the draft with their picks.
 

old55

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Feb 12, 2011
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Rating Hawthorn veterans in 2016:
  • S. Mitchell (BnF)
  • Burgoyne (BnF 3rd and Best in Finals)
  • Lewis (BnF 2nd)
  • Daylight
  • Gibson (BnF 8th)
  • Daylight
  • Hodge
It's fascinating to see who left Hawthorn. Mitchell although limited in years still has great footy ahead, I think he can only play his midfield role though and I think that because he's so dominant in that role Clarkson couldn't implement a new style of play with him there so bit the bullet and encouraged him to move on - brave but typical of Clarkson's approach. It's pretty clear that it wasn't in the plan for Lewis to depart now but it became unavoidable when he discussed the future with Clarkson. I think Clarkson would like to have had Lewis in the midfield for the transition to the new plan.

I think Gibson and Hodge couldn't be moved on after they re-signed contracts because quite frankly it would not have been easy to find them a home - both looked totally cooked at the end of the year - and it would have been embarrassing to test the market.

It's going to be very interesting in 2017 because T.Mitchell and O'Meara are going to be on the midfield front-line in a new side which is trying to implement a new game plan from day one. Big year again for Shaun Burgoyne if the Hawks are to maintain midfield shape - at least one more year of Lewis would have been very handy. It could accelerate the process but it could all go horribly wrong for a while too.
 
I think a lot of non Hawthorn fans are going to pissed off when we are right in the mix again late next year.

Don't worry, I know how you all feel, I felt like putting on some green clothes and dancing around like a leprechaun after the All Blacks got rolled yesterday.
 
I think a lot of non Hawthorn fans are going to pissed off when we are right in the mix again late next year.

Well you're half right.

Yes, I would be pissed if you were in premiership contention come the end of next year.

I'd suggest you won't be though. You were very unimpressive this year (though I grant you the fact that you were a champion side still enabled you to scrap some wins).

You have weakened your side for this year, AND have killed the mechanism for replenishment through the draft.

You'll struggle to make the eight IMO - and it will only be worse in 2018.
 

Saint

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 1, 2006
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That theory works if you think the draft is the only way to gain players. Looking at the Hawks over the past 10 years or so we know this is patently untrue.
Hawthorn's success was built off the successful drafting of Hodge, Franklin, Roughead, Mitchell, Lewis and Rioli. Trading additions of Burgoyne, Gibson and Lake were astute, but only possible because of the high draft picks they had for a long time while they were finishing bottom so consistently that they won compensation picks back when they were a thing.
 
That theory works if you think the draft is the only way to gain players. Looking at the Hawks over the past 10 years or so we know this is patently untrue.

That's just wrong.

The fundamental core of Hawthorn's premiership sides was built from a nucleus of draftees.
 

Wesley2

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May 22, 2016
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My statement was that the draft is not the only way to gain players. Spin my words all you want, build your strawmen and good luck with it. I'm not biting.
 

Saint

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Hawthorn were lucky to finish as high as they did this year and losing their two best players (as judged by them) means they'll be lucky to scrape into the finals.

Gibson, Hodge and Burgoyne will all be toast too.

Tyrone Vickery will change his name to scapegoat by round 3/4 and the Hawks will end up finishing about 10th. Some of their younger players have been tried and failed. Shopped around during the trade period for no bites. (Some hawks fans were trying to peddle people who were eventually delisted and claiming they were almost best 22). Titch will be good, not as good as Mitchell, and they'll be hoping O'Meara is better than O'Rourke (who's a dud). Box Hill finished out of the finals showing the lack of depth the hawks now have.

West Coast have 6 months to plan for a season without Naitanui. With Mitchell and Priddis at the contests, they'll still win plenty of clearances and with good markers all around the ground, they'll still move the ball pretty well. I think they'll finish about 6th. Hard to see them losing many at home.
 
My statement was that the draft is not the only way to gain players. Spin my words all you want, build your strawmen and good luck with it. I'm not biting.

I'm not trying to spin anything.

When Hawthorn began its habit of 'adding' players through methods other than the draft, it had already built a solid base of talent through the draft.

Today, it has a wafer thin list - lacking that same talent.
 
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