Tackling is as poor on field as it is when analysing what is going wrong on by the off field commentators.
Surely the data is pointing to the problems in our absolute FAILS. One for the likes of David King or Gerard Healy.
West Coast - time for a rebuild?
- Thread starter Rasha
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Tackling is as poor on field as it is when analysing what is going wrong on by the off field commentators.
Surely the data is pointing to the problems in our absolute FAILS. One for the likes of David King or Gerard Healy.
Yeah me either but I am sure your blokes have something in the works.
- Banned
- #403
Yeah, not sure. I expect us to do the basics and not much else.
Draft?
I feel like if you have one more crack left in that list its next year. Not sure what is available to make you better though.
Huge 3 weeks coming up and worrying signs - and despite being a docker supporter I want a West Aussie team to do well.
All of their best players seem to be the older guys (with the exception of Allen and Ryan).
There is the odd team (Geelong) that seem to be able to stay in the mix by topping up but I don't know if the Eagles can.
You actually have to give Worsfold credit a decade ago by playing the kids (Shuey, Gaff ect) but I am not seeing that so much with Simpson.
At some point you need to sacrifice the present to build for the future. This is desperately what the board and coach need to do right now.
All of their best players seem to be the older guys (with the exception of Allen and Ryan).
There is the odd team (Geelong) that seem to be able to stay in the mix by topping up but I don't know if the Eagles can.
You actually have to give Worsfold credit a decade ago by playing the kids (Shuey, Gaff ect) but I am not seeing that so much with Simpson.
At some point you need to sacrifice the present to build for the future. This is desperately what the board and coach need to do right now.
Go back one more year and in 2010 we picked up Gaff. But in 2009, we picked up Sheppard, Gerrick Weedon and Koby Stevens. Weedon was a complete bust, and Stevens was a servicable but fringe player after being traded to the Dogs. IMHO, as good as Sheppard turned out though, it's something of a disappointment that he ended up as a defender because I feel pretty confident that wasn't the intention.
In 2011, we picked up Murray Newman (who as a bust), Fraser McInnes (a tall, and another bust) and promoted... Ashton Hamms.
In 2012 we traded to bring in Wellingham who never lived up to his potential (Collingwood used to pick to draft Brodie Grundy). Our first pick, in the third round, was Brant College (a bust), Adam Carter (another bust) and Mark Hutching.
In 2013 we picked up Dom Sheed, Malcomy Karpany (yep, another bust), Tom Barrass (a tall), Dylan Main (jeez... I don't even remember that guy) and elevated Jamie Bennell
In 2014 we picked up Liam Duggan, Tom Lamb (a bust), Jackson Nelson (servicable), Damien Cavka (who barely even played WAFL), Alec Waterman (who came down with Chronic Fatigue or some such and got delisted a few seasons later). IMHO, Duggan has been a good player but like Sheppard it's probably a disappointment that he hasn't stepped up to a midfield position.
In 2015 we bought in Redden and Jetta via trades, who both turned out alright. But again, trading meant we started the draft late and our first pick was Partington in the second round. He seemed pretty decent, but must have had an attitude problem and got dumped fairly quickly. We also picked up Tom Cole and Kurt Mutimer (a bust). Cole's in the Brad Sheppard / Liam Duggan category of players that go ok, but probably should be doing more. Are we seeing a trend yet?
In 2016 we bought in Dan Venables, who most people know got a horrible concussion and has been on the injury list for 2 years. Then Josh Rotham, Willie Rioli and Jake Waterman. Rotham and Waterman are on the fringe of the Best 22, and Willie.... we all know his story.
In 2017 we picked Brander and Allen who are both talls. Allen has been excellent and Brander is still proving himself, so the jury is probably out. We picked up Liam Ryan, who was obviously a big win... but again, not really a midfielder. Brayden Ainsworth who looked like a bust from day one, Jack Petruccelle who's been fringe and struggled with a few injuries and Hamish Brayshaw (who as a bust).
In 2018 we drafted Xavier O'Neill, Luke Foley, Baily Williams (a tall), Jarrod Cameron... a bit early to make the call on them.
And in 2019 we threw the kitchen sink and Kelly.... I guess because after that history of trash drafting, we figured it was better to burn picks on a mature aged, 2nd-year player than take a risk in the draft.
To be honest, I knew it was a pretty horrible history, but until I started writing it down I didn't realise just how bad. Sheesh.
- Banned
- #407
Yeah, I expect us to hit the draft. I'm not sure about readymades. I haven't heard us linked to anyone and I'm not sure there are even many players available who would help us improve.
I think it'll be a case of pivoting towards youth through the draft and maybe taking care of any low-hanging fruit that presents itself. But nothing more exciting than that.
- Banned
- #408
Yeah, I've considered this list a few times over the years. It's not pretty.
Adding salt to the wound in 2009, we picked Gerrick Weedon and Koby Stevens over Mitch Duncan. I actually think that's our worst blunder in the period discussed. Two bites of the cherry and we still overlooked the hard-running wingman from WA despite being smack-bang in a period of improving the midfield. He had WC written all over him.
All I can say is thanks heavens we managed to extract Yeo.
I still remember how pissed my best mate was at the time. He is a west coast supporter and a huge Mitch Duncan fan and he could not believe West Ciast didn’t pick him up and Geelong ended up with him. He maintained at the time that Duncan was the best player in the draft. He was probably exaggerating in hindsight but still, brings back memories.
8 debutants in 2018, Ryan & Allen have proven up to it, Venables concussion is unfortunate, Willies self inflicted damage, leaving Ainsworth, Brander, Petrucelle & Waterman still in the mix.
Note the draft is the drawing board, 'what ifs' are for the development of what you've got.
12 years ago we missed out on Mitch Duncan.
Which other gun midfielders did we overlook in that period? Sheppard over Fyfe (who everyone overlooked)? Brander over Kelly (who was also overlooked by everyone)?
Frightening to think that we overlooked Yeo for Murray Newman and Fraser McInnes. It's only because we managed to trade him in him fairly cheaply that it gets overlooked.
Ainsworth is a bust. Yeah, he's still young and might come on. But he was drafted the same year as Ryan and Petrucelle, both of who are ahead of him (granted, Ryan was a more mature-age recruit). Generally, if a midfielder isn't at least starting to make an impact by the age of 22, they aren't going to make it.
Petrucelle has shown flashes of brilliance, and had a few solid games... so he probably gets a repreive. But generally, you get a pretty good handle on a player around the 50-70 game mark and he's player about 45 games so far. So he really needs to make his mark next year. And if he only ends up being a small forward, given his attributes, that'd be a real shame.
Brander... how are we playing a 195cm KPP as a midfielder? Just... wtf?
As for Waterman, I'm less inclined to care much because he was a F/S pick in the 70s. The fact that he's getting out on the park and contributed is a bonus. If he turns out to be a solid 3rd tall, even better.
- Banned
- #413
I wouldn't even criticise not picking Fyfe. He would have been a massive reach for us at 7 that year. Equally, no one was taking Kelly with the pick we used on Brander.
Until 80 -120 games few have 'made it'.
Yeah exactly. Lots of doom and gloom about our drafting, but considering the picks we've had and the players available at those picks, it's been pretty good.
You also have to look a the whole picture, and we've been pretty good at trading too, with the Kelly trade the only really contentious one I can think of off the top of my head in terms of what we paid vs what we got.
- Banned
- #416
Yeah, I don't know about that.
Well in a discussion about mids, I could only think of two other than Mitch Duncan we missed out on in recent-ish times (baring in mind Duncan was 12 years ago), Fyfe and Kelly, and you agreed they would have been a reach with the picks we did have so
- Banned
- #418
Are we only allowed to draft kids from WA?Well in a discussion about mids, I could only think of two other than Mitch Duncan we missed out on in recent-ish times (baring in mind Duncan was 12 years ago), Fyfe and Kelly, and you agreed they would have been a reach with the picks we did have so
What is a relief for you guys, and a nightmare for Freo, is that they picked Alex Forster with the next pick after you guys picked McInnes, and then Brisbane picked Yeo. It would have been worse for you guys if you Freo picked Yeo with the next pick after McInnes.
- Banned
- #421
Yeah that would have sucked.
If your only discussing wa players then brad Hill deserves a mention
Of course not.
And in the Simpson era we've drafted as so:
2014: 4 Vics, 1 WA (last pick in the draft, father-son Alec Waterman)
2015: 2 SA, 2 Vic
2016: 1 Vic, 1 SA (Willie was technically recruited from Glenelg) and 2 WA (Rotham and last pick in the draft, father-son Jake Waterman)
2017: 3 Vic, 3 WA (Allen, Ryan and Ainsworth)
2018: 2 Vic, 2 WA (Foley and Cameron)
2019: 2 WA (Jamieson and Jonson)
2020: 1 SA, 1 WA (Winder)
Not a massive WA bias there, only one draft that was WA-dominated (2019, in a draft where we only used two picks) and only one out-and-out bust (Alec Waterman) but that was illness rather than ability, and he's back on an AFL list thanks to Essendon.
Not sure what your comment is referring to. Me only thinking of Fyfe and Kelly off the top of my head as midfielders we missed out on?
I get criticisms of our drafting, but to say "lol look at this spud", without looking at who was taken around him, or the reasons why every other club passed on a certain player too, it doesn't really tell us much.
Especially when the biggest "miss" mentioned was Duncan 12 years ago. Tends to suggest we've done pretty well with the cards we've been dealt over the years I would think? Especially when those cards include a couple of Grand Finals and a Premiership. Having said that, and as per the OP, I think we're close to a rebuild thanks to the cyclical nature of the AFL (bloody Geelong excluded). Will be interesting to see what we do at the end of this season. I'm hoping for a 2017-style clean-out. And you campaigners know what happened next
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I'm hoping for a 2017-style clean-out. And you campaigners know what happened next
Do tell?
