West Coast - time for a rebuild?

How is Eddie Betts remembered?


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Apr 29, 2016
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seems like West Coast's rebuild is almost done if Luke Jackson isn't what they need lol
 
May 3, 2007
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That's a ridiculous take on things.
Just because a side concentrates on defense rather that attack, doesn't mean they have a weak forward line.

Even taking covid shortened quarters into account, it doesn't matter how many points you score if you can keep the opposition below yours.

Richmond had Lynch, Reiwoldt, Shai Bolton, Martin and Lambert.
Hardly a weak forward line.

WC had Kennedy, Darling, Le Cras, Ryan, and Rioli.

Your club could only dream of a forward line half as good.
Richmond didn't have Tom lynch in the 2017 AFL Grand final. Saying that. Richmond averaged 90.5 points in attack and 76.5 points in defence in the regular season.

Crows averaged 111 points a game in attack and 82 points in defence.

So on paper, crows were a 3-5 goal better side vs Richmond in the lead up to the 2017 AFL Grand final.

As for the 2018 grand final sides.

West coast were averaging 91 points a game in attack and 75 points in defence. In the regular season.

Collingwood averaged 93 points a game in attack and 77 points in defence .

Looks and sounds like a typical Ross Lyon low scoring defensive side to me lol

Evenly matched on paper
 

Tugga27

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Richmond didn't have Tom lynch in the 2017 AFL Grand final. Saying that. Richmond averaged 90.5 points in attack and 76.5 points in defence in the regular season.

Crows averaged 111 points a game in attack and 82 points in defence.

So on paper, crows were a 3-5 goal better side vs Richmond in the lead up to the 2017 AFL Grand final.

As for the 2018 grand final sides.

West coast were averaging 91 points a game in attack and 75 points in defence. In the regular season.

Collingwood averaged 93 points a game in attack and 77 points in defence .

Looks and sounds like a typical Ross Lyon low scoring defensive side to me lol

Evenly matched on paper
I think you're missing the point TBH.

The average scores are usually reflected by game styles.
Most coaches want defense first.

It all depends how often it goes in etc.
The quality of a good forward line isn't only represented by average scores.
 

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Oct 3, 2007
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seems like West Coast's rebuild is almost done if Luke Jackson isn't what they need lol

It’s not that we wouldn’t love to have him on our list but the reality is we need midfielders. And the club will certainly not trade out any decent draft picks.
 
May 5, 2006
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Ah yes this old chest nut.

So Weller , Langdon , Hill and Neale all left. They were all traded out from what I heard.

I'm sure Lachie Weller was traded for a future 4th rounder LoL

What you talkin' bout Willis?

I'm not questioning the level of young talent on the Freo list, it's enviable. As is playing finals when half the team is under 25 and most under 30.

But let's not pretend it was all by design. Since Freo last played finals they brought in Bennell, Kersten, McCarthy, Hill, Matera, Hogan, Conca, Colyer, Lobb, Wilson and more recently Aish, Acres and Brodie but they fit the timeline well. Freo were targeting being competitive a lot earlier than 2022. It didn't pan out, and those players listed above wanting out was a blessing given the picks helped net Brayshaw, Serong, Amiss etc.
 
May 5, 2006
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I think you're missing the point TBH.

The average scores are usually reflected by game styles.
Most coaches want defense first.

It all depends how often it goes in etc.
The quality of a good forward line isn't only represented by average scores.

Poor Freomaniac has a lot of trouble understanding that Ross Lyon coached sides don't score IN FINALS. Didn't matter if they had Riewoldt, Pavlich, Milne, Ballantyne or any other AA calibre forward playing.

West Coast averaged 92 a game in 2018 then scored 86, 121, 79 in 3 finals.

Freo 2013: Average 91, 87, 99 and 62 in 3 finals
Freo 2014: Average 91, 69 and 83 in 2 finals
Freo 2015: Average 83, 69 and 67 in 2 finals

Same story at St Kilda. 68, 52, 68 in 3 GFs. Who cares if you average 80 or 90+ during the season if you battle to put 10 goals on the board when it matters.
 
May 5, 2006
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This thread‘s about West Coast‘s rebuild yes? (Is there even a need - surely not, we‘re West Coast). Hilarious that West Coast fans are still obsessing about Freo and Ross Lyon.

Take it up with Freomanic and all the other Freo fans who are suddenly list management gurus.
 
May 3, 2007
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Poor Freomaniac has a lot of trouble understanding that Ross Lyon coached sides don't score IN FINALS. Didn't matter if they had Riewoldt, Pavlich, Milne, Ballantyne or any other AA calibre forward playing.

West Coast averaged 92 a game in 2018 then scored 86, 121, 79 in 3 finals.

Freo 2013: Average 91, 87, 99 and 62 in 3 finals
Freo 2014: Average 91, 69 and 83 in 2 finals
Freo 2015: Average 83, 69 and 67 in 2 finals

Same story at St Kilda. 68, 52, 68 in 3 GFs. Who cares if you average 80 or 90+ during the season if you battle to put 10 goals on the board when it matters.
And that right here is the biggest insult.


The fact that west coast scored 11.13.79 to Collingwood 11.8.74 in a grand final is an insult to Ross Lyon lol.
 
May 3, 2007
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Take it up with Freomanic and all the other Freo fans who are suddenly list management gurus.
What makes you think west coast will turn it all around in 12 to 24 months?

Your team could also stuff up and go through a similar rebuild like Fremantle as well. LoL
 
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May 5, 2006
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What makes you think west coast will turn it all around in 12 to 14 months?

Your team could also stuff up and go through a similar rebuild like Fremantle as well. LoL

Who said we will do that?

If we have a good season next year it will be a dead cat bounce. We don't have enough talent at the right experience level on the list to contend. Just making the finals or just missing doesn't mean any team is on track to contend.

What we have demonstrated over 3 decades is that we don't have seasons like 2022 for years on end. The expectation from the WC fan base is that the club recognises we are s**t, makes requisite changes and then within a reasonable period we aren't so s**t. It is not just blindly accepted that we'll be a botttom 6 team for 5+ years because that's what other clubs do.
 
Oct 3, 2007
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Who said we will do that?

If we have a good season next year it will be a dead cat bounce. We don't have enough talent at the right experience level on the list to contend. Just making the finals or just missing doesn't mean any team is on track to contend.

What we have demonstrated over 3 decades is that we don't have seasons like 2022 for years on end. The expectation from the WC fan base is that the club recognises we are s**t, makes requisite changes and then within a reasonable period we aren't so s**t. It is not just blindly accepted that we'll be a botttom 6 team for 5+ years because that's what other clubs do.

It’s just baffling this needs explanation. History shows we don’t stay down for long. It’s like there are some that were born just last year.
 

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Jirik13

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As Suns are playing Eagles this Sunday I checked this thread. Bloody hell, 90% posts here are not related to the topic. Common.

Personally, looking at Eagles list I don't believe they can 're-build' quickly. Easier said than done. It's so close competition, plenty of teams outside top 8 who are ahead of Eagles.

A lot of 30+ players in best 22, and worst of all most of them struggle to stay healthy and perform. Plenty of holes everywhere, Kelly just average player. Yes, some talented players but every team has them and more.

For me the most disappointing is Nic. What a fantastic talent, but watching video from training he must be one of the most out of shape players. Not really good example for kids. 66% TOG. Not acceptable.
 
Sep 16, 2015
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Take it up with Freomanic and all the other Freo fans who are suddenly list management gurus.
To be fair, I'm not sure how you discuss a 'rebuild' without discussing the list. Supporters from other teams will obviously have an opinion as it's on the main board. Carlton and Fremantle are the two teams who have most recently executed effective rebuilds, so I'm not surprised they are contributing.

The interesting thing for me is how different clubs see the process. As a generalisation, Carlton locked in their spine (McKay, Curnow, Wietering) and then went for a heap of mids. Fremantle fixed their defence first and then went mids. Adelaide look to be going tall with some attention to the forward half, and North have picked mids, mids and more mids.

It's going to be interesting which path Eagles go down. They took 2 talls and 2 wings/flankers last year. Looking at the availability of the very top end of the draft, I'd say they pick a mid at Pick 2, but what then? We will see after they've used their 2 2nd Rounders.
 

matthew_s

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For me the most disappointing is Nic. What a fantastic talent, but watching video from training he must be one of the most out of shape players. Not really good example for kids. 66% TOG. Not acceptable.

Can’t agree more.

Has been overweight for 5 years, when someone his age and injury profile should have slimming down as his career progressed.
 

ghostbat12

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Aug 17, 2009
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There has been teams that have won premierships with weak Forward lines. Swans of 2005 was one.

Eagles in 2006 was another.

Swans in 2012 was another side too.

While we are at it...... Every team that won a flag from 2016 to 2020 won a flag with a weak Forward line.


None of those sides averaged 100 points a game in attack during the regular season. Ironic because that is what Ross Lyon sides at saints and Freo were faced with criticism for that reason.

Lol Ryan, lecras, Rioli, darling, Kennedy is a weak forward line to you.

LOL.
 
May 5, 2006
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To be fair, I'm not sure how you discuss a 'rebuild' without discussing the list. Supporters from other teams will obviously have an opinion as it's on the main board. Carlton and Fremantle are the two teams who have most recently executed effective rebuilds, so I'm not surprised they are contributing.

The interesting thing for me is how different clubs see the process. As a generalisation, Carlton locked in their spine (McKay, Curnow, Wietering) and then went for a heap of mids. Fremantle fixed their defence first and then went mids. Adelaide look to be going tall with some attention to the forward half, and North have picked mids, mids and more mids.

It's going to be interesting which path Eagles go down. They took 2 talls and 2 wings/flankers last year. Looking at the availability of the very top end of the draft, I'd say they pick a mid at Pick 2, but what then? We will see after they've used their 2 2nd Rounders.

I wouldn't call Carlton or Freo successful rebuild models. To date neither team has won anything, though both look promising this year. That aside both teams have been poor for long periods - which is kind of the point of this thread.

Carlton picked up Weitering, Walsh, Curnow in 2015. Fantastic draft haul but that was 7 years ago. Do people think the best path forward for WC is to use pick 2 this year and miss the finals for 8 years to accumulate picks? Good luck selling that to the WC faithful.

And the draft path we'll go down is to pick flankers. We always pick flankers. Then find talls out of nowhere.
 
Apr 29, 2005
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Lol Ryan, lecras, Rioli, darling, Kennedy is a weak forward line to you.

LOL.

It's no Taberner and Lobb

Ha Ha Smile GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon
 
Aug 4, 2003
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Lol Ryan, lecras, Rioli, darling, Kennedy is a weak forward line to you.

LOL.

+ Cripps.

Kicked 38 off a flank in 2018…

Say what you will about that side but I don’t think ‘weak forward line’ is close to the mark.

But hey…it’s from a guy who has made 80 odd posts in this thread with the base of his argument being ‘if you think it will take less than 3 years you are wrong because other teams were shitter for longer and hopefully you are too.’
 
What you talkin' bout Willis?

I'm not questioning the level of young talent on the Freo list, it's enviable. As is playing finals when half the team is under 25 and most under 30.

But let's not pretend it was all by design. Since Freo last played finals they brought in Bennell, Kersten, McCarthy, Hill, Matera, Hogan, Conca, Colyer, Lobb, Wilson and more recently Aish, Acres and Brodie but they fit the timeline well. Freo were targeting being competitive a lot earlier than 2022. It didn't pan out, and those players listed above wanting out was a blessing given the picks helped net Brayshaw, Serong, Amiss etc.

Serong and Acres were a result of trading Hill to Saints.

I think Freo's trading has been excellent over recent times, they have had far more success at targeting cheaper serviceable players, the big ticket players like Lobb, Hogan and McCartney were a waste of time/resources.

Aish was another firesale trade from Collingwood in 2019. Brad Hill only cost them pick 23 in 2016, spent a few years there, got them Serong and Acres.

Bennell was a flop, but he was a talented flop and it didn't cost them that much, cost pick 35 and downgrading 16 to 22.

I think Brodie cost GC more to trade to fremantle than it cost Fremantle, it was a salary dump type of deal, Freo got both Brodie and their pick 19 priority pick for a future 2nd and 4th round pick. We were trying to get that pick 19 for some other reject GC didn't want but that person didn't want to leave QLD. It was a great deal, the fact Brodie isn't useless is a massive bonus.

Matera was a future 3rd round pick. Colyer was a future 4th round pick.

It wasn't all by design, they didn't want to lose players like Neale, Cerra, Weller, etc but they robbed GC blind getting pick 2 for Weller, used it to get Brayshaw, got 6 and 19 for Neale and 30, traded Cerra for pick 6.

Probably their biggest mistake was trading pick 6 and 23 for Hogan, he was a good talent and the punt might have worked out well but thems the breaks, pick 6 got passed around like it was semi-worthless that trade period and it ended up with Gold Coast who took Ben King with it. I'm sure they would prefer to have King in the goal square but I think both WA teams feel indebted to pick up any WA player who wants to return home, both clubs seem to have been screwed over with various players, like West Coast being bent over for Kelly. I think both your clubs need to put your club first when it comes to players wanting to go home. Unless it is a good deal then go home via the draft or PSD.

Freo's drafting has also been very good.

I don't think you can be critical just because everything didn't go their way, you have to look at the bigger picture.

I think a large part of why they have been successful is just the sheer size and power of their midfield, it is a massive issue for a lot of clubs to contend with so many mature bodied players, especially when they play their defensive brand of footy. Their main problem is the main contenders have potent enough midfields to overcome it, accelerating development and pushing the team into the top half of the ladder with mature aged big bodied players is going to restrict access to talent, it will be a bit more hit or miss in the later part of the first round. As long as their drafting continues to be first rate it shouldn't be a hindrance, but for a lot of clubs fast track development has stunted rebuilds.
 
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