West Coast - When will the AFL step in?

[bzparkes]

They need to help themselves first by getting in a competent board and football department first.

As the saying goes, the fish rots from the head. They've made so many poor decisions with recruitment, footy department etc. Unless this gets addressed, you can give them all the draft assistance in the world, but culture and competency are the 2 biggest things that they need to rectify.

Love how people make these dumb comments without realising that we've replaced just about every possible off-field position in the last season and a half.

 

[bzparkes]

Crows never got given any assistance

You got Michalanney under antiquated father son rules that should no longer exist....

- and we lost Noah Anderson when AFL decided to give Gold Coast another draft pick out of nowhere

Good thing you were able to poach Rankine back then, I guess?

Got stiffed on Brad Crouch compo and then the AFL wouldn't let us trade with St Kilda to organise a cap dump to allow them to give him more (which, in itself I am fine with) but then they allowed Geelong to buy pick #7 off Gold Coast after winning the flag in a salary dump!!??!

We were horseshit for a few years but now we've rebuilt without any extra assistance beyond the picks you get for finishing down bottom

They can do the same

Your mob also didn't have your start of 2nd rounder pushed back into the 30s in consecutive drafts whilst teams above you cashed in on father son, academy, FA compo and priority picks.

If WCE were afforded the exact same conditions Adelaide were under during their rebuild, assistance wouldn't even need to be discussed.

 

[ABAB]

Yep, we could've had Jagga Smith sitting on the sidelines recovering from an ACL instead.

Good one.

How do you know he would have done an ACL, was your preseason game on that day?

 

[bzparkes]

How do you know he would have done an ACL, was your preseason game on that day?

Who knows?

Either way, he projects as Masten 2.0. Very happy to have passed.

 

[radiojake]

You got Michalanney under antiquated father son rules that should no longer exist....

Michalanney is the only f/s that has ever played for us

Your mob also didn't have your start of 2nd rounder pushed back into the 30s in consecutive drafts whilst teams above you cashed in on father son, academy, FA compo and priority picks.

If WCE were afforded the exact same conditions Adelaide were under during their rebuild, assistance wouldn't even need to be discussed.

every club has had their 2nd rounders routinely pushed back through rubbish academy picks / FA compo and the like

It looks like you'll get pick#2 for Allen which is, all honesty, a joke but that should be enough of the charity

 

[bzparkes]

Michalanney is the only f/s that has ever played for us

And you also got him because his dad qualified due to playing SANFL games, a special rule that still exists for SA clubs. Considering how long Adelaide have been in the AFL, it should've been scrapped a long time ago, like it was for WCE.

So that's a bit of good fortune that went Adelaide's way.

every club has had their 2nd rounders routinely pushed back through rubbish academy picks / FA compo and the like

Nowhere near as much as WCE have, especially when North got all that compo in 2023.

It looks like you'll get pick#2 for Allen which is, all honesty, a joke but that should be enough of the charity

It's not 'charity' if that's what Brisbane are offering.

 

[Obeanie1]

A few years to go yet surely.

They made their bed, not everyone else's fault they took a big shit in it.

Sold the farm for Tim Kelly when they thought they were reloading for another glory run.
Dropped down the order from pick 3 for Owies and Baker when it was pretty obvious things were dire.

They've got 3 picks in the top 20 this year.

And will probably get like 5 first round draft picks when Harley drops them like they're hot.

Let 'em burn.

Lol. This post reeks of bitter jealousy of a club with a history you would love your club to have.

Reeks of it.

We don't want priority picks.

A couple of extra rookie spots isn't asking too much is it? Add some more mature talent to steady the ship?

Just want the AFL to stop assisting finals teams and the reigning premiers getting free hits every year.

 

[gungho]

The Eagles should be a cautionary tale to all clubs about not moving on older players.

I like Simmo, and think he is an astute coach, but Nic Nat, Shuey, Yeo (very good but injury prone), Sheed, Cripps, Darling ect should have been on 1 year contracts after the age of 30.

My belief is he got too close to the senior playing group, and couldn't make the hard decisions.
Contrast that with someone like Clarko, who traded out his stars (Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis ect) when they hit 30.

 

[bzparkes]

The Eagles should be a cautionary tale to all clubs about not moving on older players.

I like Simmo, and think he is an astute coach, but Nic Nat, Shuey, Yeo (very good but injury prone), Sheed, Cripps, Darling ect should have been on 1 year contracts after the age of 30.

My belief is he got too close to the senior playing group, and couldn't make the hard decisions.
Contrast that with someone like Clarko, who traded out his stars (Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis ect) when they hit 30.

I daresay the issue was less to do with not moving on older players and more to do with having an S&C team that couldn't adapt to modern footy.

Having said that, I do agree with the 1 year contracts, we should not be offering more than that to players over 30. Not sure why this changed in recent years but it's pretty dumb.

 

[gungho]

I daresay the issue was less to do with not moving on older players and more to do with having an S&C team that couldn't adapt to modern footy.

Having said that, I do agree with the 1 year contracts, we should not be offering more than that to players over 30. Not sure why this changed in recent years but it's pretty dumb.

The Dockers do it too with Walters and Fyfe. I understand sentiment should play a part in footy but if you were looking at it as business decisions based on risk/reward, then 1 year contracts should be standard for anyone over 30.

 

[Cleric]

You got Michalanney under antiquated father son rules that should no longer exist....



Good thing you were able to poach Rankine back then, I guess?



Your mob also didn't have your start of 2nd rounder pushed back into the 30s in consecutive drafts whilst teams above you cashed in on father son, academy, FA compo and priority picks.

If WCE were afforded the exact same conditions Adelaide were under during their rebuild, assistance wouldn't even need to be discussed.

What are you talking about?
The Crows got pick one on the Covid draft, where no players form could be assessed.
We traded in players who wanted to come to the club in Rankine and Dawson. We paid pick 5 for Rankine without any dramas, and was his worth at the time.

We got Michaelanny as a FS who was rated as a second rounder by most, and was bidded on early by Sydney. Hes a good player but not an AA like your Waterman who you also got as a father son.

Adelaide were in the same drafts as WC were, with the same academy and FS picks taken that we didn't have access to.

That's some wild stuff you wrote which plays no part in reality. WC have to take responsibility for the position they are in. Adelaide had to do the same thing after our 2017 GF implosion. We tucked our tails and went to work. We changed our culture, got rid of the people who put our club in that position and marched on. We stuck by our coach who didn't get any finals for 5 years, we have attracted players to the club when before we couldn't. We took delisted FAs like Keays and Hinge who turned out good.

It's not only Adelaide who have done this. Brisbane were also a basketcase. They couldn't keep any young players, were shit on field, and in desperate times. They did the same thing. They tucked their tails, changed their culture, got rid of the dead wood, brought in good football people and are now a successful, destination club. They arnt only getting ex Qld people to go there, but are attracting SA and Vic talent to want to be traded there. Lachie Neal should have came home to Adelaide, but went there instead. They got one of the Daniher royalty to leave Essendon and go there.

Now having said that, WC are a strong and wealthy club. If anyone has the ability to do it its them.
They need to understand that you can't rebuild just by drafting one first rounder and one second every year. They are going to have to poach some talented ex WA kids to come home in their prime.

The club was into Dan Curtin, and should have thrown a 4 year million a year contract at him. They didn't. That's what they need to do.

If WA kids who supported the club growing up, have all their family and friends in WA dont want to come back to the Eagles, they need to ask why.

Change that and it will turn around.

 

[bzparkes]

What are you talking about?
The Crows got pick one on the Covid draft, where no players form could be assessed.
We traded in players who wanted to come to the club in Rankine and Dawson. We paid pick 5 for Rankine without any dramas, and was his worth at the time.

Yes. Rankine and especially Dawson fell your way.

We got Michaelanny as a FS who was rated as a second rounder by most, and was bidded on early by Sydney. Hes a good player but not an AA like your Waterman who you also got as a father son.

Waterman was the last pick in his draft and got no bids. At 26 years of age, he's finally had a gun season.

His dad also played 100 games for WCE, not a WAFL side. He's also our first FS to come good.

Adelaide were in the same drafts as WC were, with the same academy and FS picks taken that we didn't have access to.

Adelaide were already well ahead at that stage and but for some terrible umpiring, would've played finals in 2023.

You can't seriously be comparing our position in that draft to Adelaide's?

That's some wild stuff you wrote which plays no part in reality. WC have to take responsibility for the position they are in.
Adelaide had to do the same thing after our 2017 GF implosion. We tucked our tails and went to work. We changed our culture, got rid of the people who put our club in that position and marched on. We stuck by our coach who didn't get any finals for 5 years, we have attracted players to the club when before we couldn't. We took delisted FAs like Keays and Hinge who turned out good.

Every club has to take 'full responsibility' for the position they are in, which is why we sacked our coach, replace most of our recruitment team, moved our CEO on and replace the S&C team.

We've also split our first rounder in 2 out of 3 drafts in an effort to acquire more talent and make our team more competitive.

What more do you want?

Oh, we've also had a number of our players retire early due to concussion during that time.

It's not only Adelaide who have done this. Brisbane were also a basketcase. They couldn't keep any young players, were shit on field, and in desperate times. They did the same thing. They tucked their tails, changed their culture, got rid of the dead wood, brought in good football people and are now a successful, destination club. They arnt only getting ex Qld people to go there, but are attracting SA and Vic talent to want to be traded there. Lachie Neal should have came home to Adelaide, but went there instead. They got one of the Daniher royalty to leave Essendon and go there.

Brisbane also got priority draft assistance. Bad example.

Now having said that, WC are a strong and wealthy club. If anyone has the ability to do it its them.
They need to understand that you can't rebuild just by drafting one first rounder and one second every year. They are going to have to poach some talented ex WA kids to come home in their prime.

being strong and wealthy means nothing in the AFL because of the massive penalties for going outside the cap.

Not sure what you want the club to do when they can't spend their money by design?

It's the worst argument for improving WCE, parroted by Vic media people who don't understand the restrictions in place, solely in an attempt to keep the poverty clubs competitive, which hasn't worked anyway.

The club was into Dan Curtin, and should have thrown a 4 year million a year contract at him. They didn't. That's what they need to do.

How do you know they didn't? They tried to trade up for him in 2023 but GWS opted to skip Curtin for Phoenix Gotherd and give the pick to Adelaide instead.

If WA kids who supported the club growing up, have all their family and friends in WA dont want to come back to the Eagles, they need to ask why.

Why?

Because WA players usually settle interstate very well because they know they most likely have to move when drafted.

Then there's the travel factor.

They'd have to be massively homesick to want to return home and history tells us this rarely happens.

Change that and it will turn around.

Only so many things are in our control, the rest is with the AFL.

 

[radiojake]

And you also got him because his dad qualified due to playing SANFL games, a special rule that still exists for SA clubs. Considering how long Adelaide have been in the AFL, it should've been scrapped a long time ago, like it was for WCE.

We got him under the same rules West Coast has with WAFL players - His old man played his 200 games before 1991 (when Adelaide entered)
It's just unusual that he came from nowhere in the sense that his Dad had children (very) late in life and they only just got to drafting age

The rules that existed for WAFL f/s would still technically exist if any of the old WAFL players had a (very very) late in life child

EDIT: we got Michaleny under the very same rule West Coast drafted Ben Cousins

 

[Cleric]

Yes. Rankine and especially Dawson fell your way.



Waterman was the last pick in his draft and got no bids. At 26 years of age, he's finally had a gun season.

His dad also played 100 games for WCE, not a WAFL side. He's also our first FS to come good.



Adelaide were already well ahead at that stage and but for some terrible umpiring, would've played finals in 2023.

You can't seriously be comparing our position in that draft to Adelaide's?



Every club has to take 'full responsibility' for the position they are in, which is why we sacked our coach, replace most of our recruitment team, moved our CEO on and replace the S&C team.

We've also split our first rounder in 2 out of 3 drafts in an effort to acquire more talent and make our team more competitive.

What more do you want?

Oh, we've also had a number of our players retire early due to concussion during that time.



Brisbane also got priority draft assistance. Bad example.



being strong and wealthy means nothing in the AFL because of the massive penalties for going outside the cap.

Not sure what you want the club to do when they can't spend their money by design?

It's the worst argument for improving WCE, parroted by Vic media people who don't understand the restrictions in place, solely in an attempt to keep the poverty clubs competitive, which hasn't worked anyway.



How do you know they didn't? They tried to trade up for him in 2023 but GWS opted to skip Curtin for Phoenix Gotherd and give the pick to Adelaide instead.



Why?

Because WA players usually settle interstate very well because they know they most likely have to move when drafted.

Then there's the travel factor.

They'd have to be massively homesick to want to return home and history tells us this rarely happens.



Only so many things are in our control, the rest is with the AFL.

So you got a AA quality FS for nothing while ours got bidded on in the first round.
This one is not a win for you.
For a WA kid to qualify for FS at the Eagles, their dad had to play 150 games in the WAFL. For the Crows, their fathers had to play 200 games in the SANFL. Under those rules you got Ben Cousins, Ashley McIntosh, Mitch Morton and Jacob Brennen. The Crows got nobody until Michaelanny. We missed out on Bryce Gibbs because he only played 191 games in the time period required. If we had the same rules as WC he would have been ours for nothing.

Sure Adelaide didn't get as bad as WC have now, but if we had of zigged instead of zagged we may well have been. If we didn't get Rankine and Dawson, we could have been. You are using good decisions the Crows made as an excuse for WC not making those same good moves.

Do you know what help Brisbane got from the AFL? Pick 19. So you are telling me if the AFL give WC pick 19 then the club will be set for their rebound?
Obviously Brisbane needed to change more to get the turn around. Don't be silly.

Ask North supporters if having more money, members and supporters helps them both attract players and bring good people into the club. North would swap places with WC anything. They are selling games to try to make money. WC has a big brand and is one of the premier sporting clubs in Australia. If you dont think that helps then maybe your club has the same issue, and its why you havent progressed.

WC didn't offer Curtin 1 million a year. They should have. Sometimes you have to pay overs to get a player to move. That's what we had to do with Rankine. He was also set at the GC and if we just matched their offer, he wouldn't have come.

Go back 10 years and Adelaide couldn't get SA kids back here either. We were told that they prefer the big lights of Melbourne. There was more opportunities there to make money post AFL.
Same went for Port. Funny how in a decade that has turned around to the point to where we almost expect we will get the good SA kids to come back.
We had Rankine, Dawson and ANB. Port has had JHF and now maybe NWM.
And as I said previously, Brisbane is attracting players from all other states there, and they have to fly alot as well.

Stop making excuses.
Theres a saying, Fish attract fish. Start making the changes, poach a couple of elite WA kids with big money, and then more will come.

 

[DidakDelight]

Surely the AFL should let them sink and eventually fold.

The purple haze are the true WA team not this corporate 80’s American concept team.

Fold them and bring in the next best WAFL side

 

[Erakor]

We have to stop tampering with draft picks and help to clubs.

West coast and Richmond are shit because they had their time in the sun and now rebuilding.

If West Coast get help, Essendon should get 5 top 10 draft picks, seeing as they have not one a final in 434678 days, let alone a premiership only 7 years ago.

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

Crows never got given any assistance - and we lost Noah Anderson when AFL decided to give Gold Coast another draft pick out of nowhere

Got stiffed on Brad Crouch compo and then the AFL wouldn't let us trade with St Kilda to organise a cap dump to allow them to give him more (which, in itself I am fine with) but then they allowed Geelong to buy pick #7 off Gold Coast after winning the flag in a salary dump!!??!

We were horseshit for a few years but now we've rebuilt without any extra assistance beyond the picks you get for finishing down bottom

They can do the same

They'll be bottom for the next 5 to 10 years

 

[Freomaniac]

The Dockers do it too with Walters and Fyfe. I understand sentiment should play a part in footy but if you were looking at it as business decisions based on risk/reward, then 1 year contracts should be standard for anyone over 30.

Walters and Fyfe both deserved to leave the dockers with dignity and respect. They did stick loyal to the dockers when we needed them the most in that 2016 to 2021 rebuild

 

[Scotland]

Why would the AFL step in? What's in it for them? 44k people turned up to the tripe WC dished up vs Richmond. Not many clubs can dream of that many people turning up to watch 18th play 17th after 11 wins in 4 years. But it makes the AFL no money so why would they care if 144k turned up?

The only benefit to the AFL of WC being less shit is people not talking about priority picks etc. and complaining about how unfair it is that team A gets to play WC twice while team B doesn't. But those things aren't going away. Give WC a priority pick or not, the system still exists. At whatever time WC are competitive again someone else won't be.

Here are the 5 spooners before 2022 (we won it in 2023 and while we missed out on going B2B are going to nail 2 in 3).

2021: North 4 wins 70%
2020: Adelaide 3 wins 64%
2019: Gold Coast 3 wins 61%
2018: Carlton 2 wins 59%
2017: Brisbane 5 wins 74%

Let's not pretend that 2024/5 WC aren't in the same ball park as those teams. Does it really matter if WC (or North or whoever) are terrible for years on end or if it changes year on year? There is always going to be someone winning 5 games or fewer and being uncompetitive most of the time, and half a dozen teams are going to play them twice. Brisbane were the best worst team in recent years but were still relative easybeats.

The AFL know what they have to do to make it easier for WC and others to improve. But they don't want to do it. So they can suck it up and deal with negative PR.

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

Why would the AFL step in? What's in it for them? 44k people turned up to the tripe WC dished up vs Richmond. Not many clubs can dream of that many people turning up to watch 18th play 17th after 11 wins in 4 years. But it makes the AFL no money so why would they care if 144k turned up?

The only benefit to the AFL of WC being less shit is people not talking about priority picks etc. and complaining about how unfair it is that team A gets to play WC twice while team B doesn't. But those things aren't going away. Give WC a priority pick or not, the system still exists. At whatever time WC are competitive again someone else won't be.

Here are the 5 spooners before 2022 (we won it in 2023 and while we missed out on going B2B are going to nail 2 in 3).

2021: North 4 wins 70%
2020: Adelaide 3 wins 64%
2019: Gold Coast 3 wins 61%
2018: Carlton 2 wins 59%
2017: Brisbane 5 wins 74%

Let's not pretend that 2024/5 WC aren't in the same ball park as those teams. Does it really matter if WC (or North or whoever) are terrible for years on end or if it changes year on year? There is always going to be someone winning 5 games or fewer and being uncompetitive most of the time, and half a dozen teams are going to play them twice. Brisbane were the best worst team in recent years but were still relative easybeats.

The AFL know what they have to do to make it easier for WC and others to improve. But they don't want to do it. So they can suck it up and deal with negative PR.

Didn't you win 2 games in 2022? Pies and dons. You were equal with wins on North and beat them by 4 percent. Virtually 3 wooden spoons in seasons. Won like 4 games last season. Abysmal.

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

Throw the towell. Throw the God damn towell.

 

[Scotland]

Didn't you win 2 games in 2022? Pies and dons. You were equal with wins on North and beat them by 4 percent. Virtually 3 wooden spoons in seasons. Won like 4 games last season. Abysmal.

Keen observation.

 

[Freomaniac]

Hard to see where the improvment comes from anytime in the next 3-4 years given they have a real lack of talent under 25

Reid the only one who shows star potential and may or may not be on the move outside of that Ginbey/Edwards/Maric/McCathy/Dewar/Shanahan show signs of being solid enough footballers but are being forced to be better then they are

They have some promising young players.

Gibney, Edwards, Maric, McCarthy, Dewar and Shanahan looked ok.

They have a couple of young defenders I like.

Waterman is a solid forward in his prime.

Eagles need to draft at least one or two inside mids in this draft. Harley Reid can't do it alone.

Harley Reid doesn't have enough decent veterans to work with besides a mentally shot Tim Kelly and an injury prone Elliot Yeo . Sad that Dom Sheed retired with injuries.

Those eagles mids drafted in 2008-10 like Gaff, Shuey and Sheppard had senior mids like Kerr and Embley to lead them.

And back in the 1999-2001 drafts, young guys Embley, Kerr, Judd and Sampi had guys like Jakovich and Matera to look up to.

 

[Freomaniac]

Their drafting and recruiting has been terrible for years now. They could easily delist 10 players this season.

Barnett,petrucelle,rawlinson,chesser , Jamieson,brock,owies,bazzo ,hunt,long

Throw in Allen leaving, sheed and McGovern retiring and no core group of players in the 24-28 bracket the worst is still to come. And For a struggling team who has been at the bottom their best youth isn't comparable to the teams around them. So they definitely do need one but they don't deserve one since they played finals not that long ago.

You really want my honest opinion about why the eagles don't have a lot of decent players in that 24 to 28 year old range? Do you really want my honest opinion?

There are 2 reasons. 1 of them is a minor reason and the other is the major reason .

The minor reason is the Tim Kelly trade. Yes they traded in a 2019 late 1st in pick 13, an early 2nd in pick 22 then a 2020 1st which was around pick 12. Those 3 picks would be 23 or 24 years old now.

The major reason why they have not much 23 to 28 year Olds on the list is equalization.

West coast eagles made finals each year from 2015 to 2020. Not one year in those 6 years that they got a top 10 picks.

Also if you wanna add the year before which was 2014, which they finished 9th and year after they miss finals in 2021which they also got 9th, that is 8 years in a row from 2014 to 2021 the eagles didn't grab one top 5 or even a top 10 draft pick.

 

[Freomaniac]

You weren't exactly saying things that we here didn't already know. In 2021 it was obvious to most that we were done, unfortunately the coach and those running footy ops at the time decided that sticking their head in the sand was a better idea than moving on.

To be fair.... The eagles had a good finals run from 2015 to 2020. They got a grand final in 2015 and a flag in 2018.

6 years in a row of no top 10 picks. You make finals you get late picks. It's equalization.

If your side drafted some good picks with late pick, you would be Western Australians equivalent of Geelong