West Coast - where to now?

[Sweet Jesus]

Its all about youth in the middle.

Only Duggan and Sheed under the age of 25 as mids on Saturday night - by comparison, Melbourne had Viney, Oliver, Petracca, Stretch, Harmes, Bugg, ANB, Tyson. Now, I'm not saying they dont still have time - Shuey is still 27 - but they are closer to the end than the beginning.

Need to draft best available mid this year. Probably 2 or 3.

West Coast also lost Rosa, Selwood, Ebert and Stevens. They drafted a kid called Damien Cavka who retired aged 19, and also drafted Alec Waterman, who was delisted after contracting glandular fever. Tom Swift was taken with pick 20 and retired aged 22.

That goes a long way to explaining WC's midfield woes, despite their best efforts over the past 10 years to bolster it. WC will likely use their first pick on another midfielder again this year but there have been a shitload of misses since Judd and Cousins left at the end of 2007.

Shuey is top-drawer and Gaff is pretty good but a bit one-dimensional. Other than that it's been a case of pushing s**t uphill. Wellingham was recruited as a midfielder but now plays in the backline. Same goes for Yeo, although he might actually end up in the middle. And Redden and Jetta were also recruited, but both have been pretty s**t so far, although there may finally be a glimmer of hope for Jetta. Also, Masten was taken with pick 3 and is s**t.

If they can pry someone like Brendon Ah Chee loose and he comes cheap, that looks to me like a step in the right direction. Not that he's a star. But he's the right age and would probably be best 22 at WC.

 

[Cudi_420]

Not convinced they'll play finals. But saying they loaded up is a stretch. They should play finals simply because they're better than most of the teams thereabouts them on the ladder. But I agree they need to start drafting aggressively and look to add midfield depth. They have stars in each area of the ground but like North and Melbourne ten years ago, with the ages of those players, things can go sour very quickly. Need to start planning a rebuild so they don't fully crash down imo. But not quite danger zone yet.

 

[Scotland]

The only players we have that would attract top draft picks in a trade are McGovern, Barrass and Shuey. * that. We could trade Darling or Gaff or whoever but clubs aren't going to be lining up to offer pick 1.

Even if we lost someone to FA, the best we could hope for is a pick after our first, which will likely be 10 or 11. Not worth sacrificing proven players for picks in the 10-20 range. Losing Ebert, Stevens, Rosa, Selwood didn't bring us much picks wise.

Better off turning over the list bit by bit and adding new players with the picks we have (and trading around the fringes for upgrades etc.), then if we suck we'll get early picks. For picks 4, 6 & 11 I'm pretty happy with Gaff, Shee, Yeo and Duggan as a return, but we have a decent chunk of players on our list who came from lateish picks.

 

[Xhoquelin]

In the unenviable position of the LA Clippers, to compare to a basketball franchise. It's not that their star players are too old, but some are injury prone, the club is generally unlucky and simply isn't good enough to make the finals.

I agree with the above poster who said it's time to trade some guys. Butler who seems to have been around forever needs to go, Hill, Schofield, Redden and Mackenzie are trade bait if they can get anything for them. Just try to get some solid 2nd/3rd round picks in. They've got some really solid players, McGovern Barrass Yeo Gaff Naitanui are all very good players and in Sheed, Duggan, Karpany, Willie Rioli they've got some decent youth coming through.

As soon as Darling and Wellingham come out of contract those two are on the trade block though. Simply won't win a grand final with those two in your team. Darling at least fetches a late first rounder, Wellingham probably a second rounder.

While they haven't gone all in for a premiership tilt, they did have a few guys come through the club together from 2007-10 in Gaff Shuey Darling JJK Schofield Nic Nat Priddis, those guys likely won't win a premiership together so it's time to focus on the draft. Would be really disappointed if they made another Wellingham or Lewis Jetta transaction to stay in that 5-8 range for a few more seasons. Get some youth in quickly to complement those young guys you already have and you never know, in five years time some of those above 2007-10 guys might still be contributing at AFL level and you might be able to catch the end of their careers and reward them with a well earned premiership.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I agree they need to start drafting aggressively and look to add midfield depth.

That's what WC have been doing.

How do you "draft aggressively"?

 

[kaiserchief13]

Not convinced they'll play finals. But saying they loaded up is a stretch. They should play finals simply because they're better than most of the teams thereabouts them on the ladder. But I agree they need to start drafting aggressively and look to add midfield depth. They have stars in each area of the ground but like North and Melbourne ten years ago, with the ages of those players, things can go sour very quickly. Need to start planning a rebuild so they don't fully crash down imo. But not quite danger zone yet.

Would rather 1 really poor year to get a top 3 pick to get a gun mid

 

[juss]

That's what WC have been doing.

How do you "draft aggressively"?

Think he means trade aggressively, for draft picks.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

I agree with the above poster who said it's time to trade some guys. Butler who seems to have been around forever needs to go, Hill, Schofield, Redden and Mackenzie are trade bait if they can get anything for them.

We'd get SFA in return for these guys. That can't be the strategy.

Just try to get some solid 2nd/3rd round picks in. They've got some really solid players, McGovern Barrass Yeo Gaff Naitanui are all very good players and in Sheed, Duggan, Karpany, Willie Rioli they've got some decent youth coming through.

As long as it's solid.

As soon as Darling and Wellingham come out of contract those two are on the trade block though. Simply won't win a grand final with those two in your team. Darling at least fetches a late first rounder, Wellingham probably a second rounder.

Apparently Wellingham is out of contract at the end of 2017.

While they haven't gone all in for a premiership tilt, they did have a few guys come through the club together from 2007-10 in Gaff Shuey Darling JJK Schofield Nic Nat Priddis, those guys likely won't win a premiership together so it's time to focus on the draft.

I'd say WC have been more or less focused on the draft.

In 2011, WC's first pick was at #23 and they stuffed it up by drafting Murray Newman – Seb Ross went at #25. WC also got bent over in the trade for Brad Ebert – the pick 28 they got in return was used to draft Fraser McInnes. That hasn't really worked out.

In 2012, WC traded out pick #18 for Wellingham. WC appear to have overpaid but again, the strategy made sense at the time. Collingwood took Brodie Grundy with that pick, so it worked out pretty well for them but I doubt we'd have taken Grundy. On that basis, I'm not sure WC missed out on much by giving up that pick. They'd probably have taken Marco Paparone or Kamdyn McIntosh or something. Grundy aside, there are no standouts in the 18-30 bracket that year, apart from Todd Viney, who was a F/S so doesn't count. We fluffed the later picks, taking Brant Colledge at #45, overlooking Tim Membrey and Dean Kent. We took Mark Hutchings at #60 but he's nothing special. Rory Atkins went at #81 that year, so that would have been handy.

In 2013, WC took Sheed at #11, while also trading for Yeo. WC got Karpany at #31 and Barrass at #43. That could be a good year if Karpany clicks.

In 2014, WC took Duggan at #11, stuffed up with Tom Lamb at #31 (Mitch McGovern went at #43), but then got Jackson Nelson at #51. That year, we also drafted Damien Cavka and Alec Waterman, who were derailed by injury and illness. What might have been.

In 2015, WC traded out pick #18 for Redden. That has backfired but again the strategy made sense at the time and it's not currently clear that we missed out on any guns in that draft as a result. Josh Dunkley looks the pick of the bunch so far out of those who were available. WC subsequently drafted Luke Partington at #28, Tom Cole at #36 and Kurt Mutimer at #57. Fingers crossed on those. The whole conversation gets tipped on its head if these guys turn out to be decent.

In 2016, WC took Daniel Venables at #13, overlooking Sam Powell-Pepper. So yeah, I guess we have to wait on that one but early signs are s**t.

So there are hits and misses there and some young midfielders who can hopefully come on in the next 1-2 years.

But it's not like WC have been trading out early draft picks hand over fist. The two first-rounders that were traded out for Redden and Wellingham might seem like overs in hindsight but both deals were done with a sound objective in mind. And I'm not sure WC really missed out on anyone by trading out of the first round those years. And any loss incurred has probably been compensated by the recruitment of Yeo in return for pick 28. Swings and roundabouts etc.

So to simply say "WC needs to focus on the draft", as though they've stubbornly been doing something else, doesn't really reflect the record. The reality is they just haven't been able to deliver one bumper draft where they pick up a genuine top-liner and 2-3 other contributors. It's been slow and steady, but the clock is ticking and they need some of these recent recruits to develop more quickly.

 

[The Wrecker]

What's happened to Partington? Looked a gun at junior level.

 

[Johnny Karate]

Things are never as good or bad as they seem. Shuey, Gaff, Yeo, McGovern, Naitanui and Darling (recent poor form aside) are all in their prime and would get a game in any other team. I like the youth coming through in Barass, Cole, Karpany, Duggan, Mutimer, Sheed, Rioli and Partington. A big reason it isn't clicking is that without Naitanui's sublime tapwork their guts midfielders get a bit exposed for pace, Kennedy being out and Darling's poor form has also killed their scoring power. Last year they had a bit of a "unexpected Grand Finalist" hangover and just haven't been able to recapture a competitive advantage when the comp has been its most even in over a decade.

 

[Kwality]

I have faith in Venables and Partington

Mutimer has also debuted.

Onya love faith, now blind faith is a tad marginal - take your two, are you expecting both to be regulars in 2018, chalk up 50+ games in 2020 ..... lot of footy to be won & lost before then.

 

[Coaster2012]

WC knocked off Geelong 2 weeks ago, and just lost to the D's after a terrible final 3 minutes. It's hardly crisis time. Every team this year has had their spot in the media spotlight for being s**t. The fact that WC are still only a few games off 2nd is staggering. All it will take is for a team to have a few good weeks of footy to win the flag this year.

 

[Jiggyman]

What's happened to Partington? Looked a gun at junior level.

Still slight, and has been working on being more damaging with disposal and adding defensive aspects to his game. We already have accumulators and need more rounded midfielders.

He had 28 and kicked 4.2 last weekend in a losing team. Been averaging ~25 per game with a goal or two most weeks and is in line for a possible debut this week.

 

[Angus Young]

If they somehow win this week we will be talking about their top 4 chances.

I think we need to calm our farm.

 

[Eaglespur]

If they somehow win this week we will be talking about their top 4 chances.

I think we need to calm our farm.

Winnable game for sure, i am quietly moist with anticipation

 

[Angus Young]

Winnable game for sure, i am quietly moist with anticipation

very winnable for sure but it's West Coast in Melbourne so you might want to keep your panties on for a bit longer.

 

[Scotland]

Things are never as good or bad as they seem. Shuey, Gaff, Yeo, McGovern, Naitanui and Darling (recent poor form aside) are all in their prime and would get a game in any other team. I like the youth coming through in Barass, Cole, Karpany, Duggan, Mutimer, Sheed, Rioli and Partington. A big reason it isn't clicking is that without Naitanui's sublime tapwork their guts midfielders get a bit exposed for pace, Kennedy being out and Darling's poor form has also killed their scoring power. Last year they had a bit of a "unexpected Grand Finalist" hangover and just haven't been able to recapture a competitive advantage when the comp has been its most even in over a decade.

Interesting observations. Always nice when someone contributes something more than 'LOL flat track bullies'.

Darling has become one of the most scrutinised players in the comp (mainly because he's a knob), but his actual output is pretty consistent year to year. Even this year after a couple of down games he's getting 11 touches, 5 marks and just under 2 goals a game. He'll finish the year with about 40 goals, which is a standard Jack Darling season. The big disappointment is that with Kennedy out for a few weeks he hasn't stepped up and kicked a bag. He was good against Geelong, but hardly BOG. Even last week it was Petrie who stood up and he's not in our top 30 with a full list. In fact he's not even on the main list of 40.

I agree we were better in 2015 than 2016, but our hangover dropped us from 16 wins and a draw to 16 wins which on paper is nothing. Our last 3 wins were great, but realistically the first 20 rounds were mediocre and we were just hanging around the top 8 like we are this year. We dropped about 20% after 22 games from 2015 to 2016 even with a stack of easy early games (Brisbane, Richmond at their worst, Collingwood at their worst, St Kilda at their worst etc.) to boost it which is telling. Our finals effort against the Dogs was feeble, too. Our GF performance was equally feeble, but we beat Hawthorn (no one else did that 2013-2015) and North (everyone does that) to get there.

 

[Scotland]

very winnable for sure but it's West Coast in Melbourne so you might want to keep your panties on for a bit longer.

It's at Docklands, we're good at Docklands. Just ask North. And Ess-, *.

Can we play it in Adelaide?

 

[Ok Boomer]

What's happened to Partington? Looked a gun at junior level.

Been very good at WAFL level for the most part. Should debut soon in my opinion, I would even pick him this week. Perhaps had to work on being more damaging with his disposal initially but he has had 3 and 4 goal games recently which is obviously great for a midfielder.

 

[Ok Boomer]

Things are never as good or bad as they seem. Shuey, Gaff, Yeo, McGovern, Naitanui and Darling (recent poor form aside) are all in their prime and would get a game in any other team. I like the youth coming through in Barass, Cole, Karpany, Duggan, Mutimer, Sheed, Rioli and Partington. A big reason it isn't clicking is that without Naitanui's sublime tapwork their guts midfielders get a bit exposed for pace, Kennedy being out and Darling's poor form has also killed their scoring power. Last year they had a bit of a "unexpected Grand Finalist" hangover and just haven't been able to recapture a competitive advantage when the comp has been its most even in over a decade.

Can't really argue with any of this.

 

[nameless]

WC knocked off Geelong 2 weeks ago, and just lost to the D's after a terrible final 3 minutes. It's hardly crisis time. Every team this year has had their spot in the media spotlight for being s**t. The fact that WC are still only a few games off 2nd is staggering. All it will take is for a team to have a few good weeks of footy to win the flag this year.

Geelong have a bit of a history of losing games they shouldn't.

We may have lost 4 games by under 12 points, but even if we won them I reckon they would have just been painting over the cracks.
We played very poorly against Gold Coast.
Richmond we were very poor 2nd half and gave the game away, insipid display at times.
GWS were down a lot of players, had never won at Subi, had never beaten us and we should have won that one.
Last weekend we played pretty well for the most part, but were very inefficient up forward and missed crucial shots at goal, also lost our way at the end and should have held on.

Essendon and Hawks are about as bad as you'll see a team play this year.

I agree that the whole comp goes through the ups and downs, but we've had a lot of downs this year and got lucky (Saints and Port) as well as playing teams at the right time (Sydney and Bulldogs).

Hardly a match this year or last (GWS and Adelaide aside) where you could hang your hat on and say this team is looking like a real contender.

 

[Saintly2]

Middle rank team.

Midfield not good enough to challenge.

 

[Kwality]

Priddis did not travel & the much discussed Luke Partington is on the plane.

https://thewest.com.au/sport/afl/mi...-makes-his-debut-for-west-coast-ng-b88522566z

 

[Jables]

Things are never as good or bad as they seem. Shuey, Gaff, Yeo, McGovern, Naitanui and Darling (recent poor form aside) are all in their prime and would get a game in any other team. I like the youth coming through in Barass, Cole, Karpany, Duggan, Mutimer, Sheed, Rioli and Partington. A big reason it isn't clicking is that without Naitanui's sublime tapwork their guts midfielders get a bit exposed for pace, Kennedy being out and Darling's poor form has also killed their scoring power. Last year they had a bit of a "unexpected Grand Finalist" hangover and just haven't been able to recapture a competitive advantage when the comp has been its most even in over a decade.

On talent Darling would get a game in any team, but IMO he is fools gold. When the pressures on he just has no impact. And a lot of their stars just seem like it's no behemoth task to stop them, I don't know maybe I'm just influenced by our games against them.
They have a lot of pieces to work with though, the list isn't in a bad spot.

 

[Scotland]

OUT: Priddis, Hurn, Hill, Schofield
IN: Masten, Redden, Butler, Wellingham

'West Coast - where to next?'

Lock in 'around in circles' thanks, Ed.

And srsly, WTF is with our dubious injuries to out of form players?