AFLW West Coast Women 2021 - Discussion

How many wins in 2021?


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Jesus did Gibbo seriously have 1 touch and 3 tackles in a whole game of footy?

That's even surpassing the massive expectations I had of her.

Tipping 6 disposals, 2 tackles, 0 score and no impact on the game save for a crunching tackle and some biff.


Plz delist.
 
Imagine how much worse this would've been without McCarthy. One of the few with a full game performance. Love that she's an Eagle this year.
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Going to be a long hard road to travel before we become a competitive side .

And one I’m on onboard for till the bitter end. Will make the top years on so much sweeter
 

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Rowan18

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I'm not really across how the draft and trading work in this league, but it seems like we have some good top end talent with a long tail of players that just aren't up to it. How can the club go about rebuilding? Is it just a case of taking our medicine for a few years while we slowly build and develop (like GWS in AFL)?

The other recent expansion teams seem to be struggling too, with the exception of North.
 
How can the club go about rebuilding
To be fair we are building at the moment, not rebuilding.

Is it just a case of taking our medicine for a few years while we slowly build and develop (like GWS in AFL)?

Because the comp is part time we only really get the top talent avail in WA unless a player is willing to relocate. Top vic draft picks won’t do that

We will receive the top draft pick of the WA pool until Freo fall over - which isn’t looking like anytime soon.
 

Rowan18

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To be fair we are building at the moment, not rebuilding.



Because the comp is part time we only really get the top talent avail in WA unless a player is willing to relocate. Top vic draft picks won’t do that

We will receive the top draft pick of the WA pool until Freo fall over - which isn’t looking like anytime soon.
Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. So it all comes down to development of WA talent then. That is interesting, I guess it is much more of a state vs state battle in terms of where the players come from.
 
Jun 11, 2013
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Imo we have too many passengers when the heat gets turned up.
Gibson either needs to be played as a tagger or left out of the side. If she’s no good as a tagger she gets delisted.
McDonald has been so far off the pace this year it’s not funny, she’s slow, making bad decisions and looking unfit. She can actually play forward if needed, so if Gilmores out, I’d be playing her forward and teaching Grace Kelly to play back on the talls because she’s lost up forward. It’s easier to teach a player to man up an opponent than to read the game if you’ve come from another sport.
Bring Korme back in, play her on the wing, push Collier into the guts for a bit more size to help McCarthy & Swanson and push Bella Lewis forward where she excells at winning the ground ball and kicking goals. She can pinch hit in the middle when needed as can Cameron. Either way we need to change things up a bit as far as I’m concerned.
 

AlphaSheep

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So much negativity. I think some perspective is needed.

That first half was amazing. We're massively undersized, they outmarked us 57 to 27 for the match, 13 to 2 in contested marks, 12 to 1 inside 50. When you can't mark the ball, you don't have any chance to slow the game down, play possession football. You've just got to run run run all the time, and it's exhausting, especially in Brisbane heat.

The one chance you do get to take a break and slow the game down is to kick goals, but of course we missed a bunch of shots, and that gets demoralising, all that work for nothing. Pratt's doing what he can with what he's got, and if we'd actually kicked the chances we had, we'd have had a nice lead at halftime... and probably still would have gotten flogged in the second half, because with Brisbane's run and marking power it's just a matter of time, but it would have been a lot closer.

They generate lots of run from their back and forward line -- players like Svarc, Smith, Bodey, Lutkins, Grider, Koenen, etc. Nearly all of our run comes from our poor bloody midfielders. They get little help from the back or forward lines, which is why they're completely stuffed after halftime.

But when you look at just midfields, we had them 30 clearances to 19 for the match without Dana Hooker or Niamh Kelly. And that's with them beating us at centre clearances 8 to 6 -- we were up 24 to 11 in stoppage clearances. McCarthy was our best, but Bella Lewis was phenomenal for a third gamer.

Everyone's pointing at what happened after halftime -- meh, teams get demoralised, the playing style's exhausting, s**t happens. This season's all about building a foundation for next year, and that first half was super encouraging, it showed at full strength in 2022 we could have one of the best midfields in the comp. We just need strong marking players who can take grabs forward and back, help us slow the game down, control the play. Right now we've got one or two down back, and nothing up forward, which means we'll probably continue to get smashed in second halves in 2021, but for the future it doesn't mean that much because we'll be continually adding better players and cutting worse ones.

Next year we'll get Amy Franklin, who's 180cm and super fast, plus probably Charlotte Thomas who's in the 170s and has some of the best skills I've seen in a junior. The year after that, Ella Roberts, who's 177cm (might still be growing) and looks like she'll be one of the best players ever, was already running rings around AFLW seniors in the WAFLW as a 15 year old. Plus there'll be a bunch more we haven't seen much of yet. If we can add young stars forward and back to this midfield foundation we're building, we'll be fine. It'll just take a few years. Or three.

I'm betting a finals appearance in 2024. I'm patient, I'll wait.
 
So much negativity. I think some perspective is needed.

That first half was amazing. We're massively undersized, they outmarked us 57 to 27 for the match, 13 to 2 in contested marks, 12 to 1 inside 50. When you can't mark the ball, you don't have any chance to slow the game down, play possession football. You've just got to run run run all the time, and it's exhausting, especially in Brisbane heat.

The one chance you do get to take a break and slow the game down is to kick goals, but of course we missed a bunch of shots, and that gets demoralising, all that work for nothing. Pratt's doing what he can with what he's got, and if we'd actually kicked the chances we had, we'd have had a nice lead at halftime... and probably still would have gotten flogged in the second half, because with Brisbane's run and marking power it's just a matter of time, but it would have been a lot closer.

They generate lots of run from their back and forward line -- players like Svarc, Smith, Bodey, Lutkins, Grider, Koenen, etc. Nearly all of our run comes from our poor bloody midfielders. They get little help from the back or forward lines, which is why they're completely stuffed after halftime.

But when you look at just midfields, we had them 30 clearances to 19 for the match without Dana Hooker or Niamh Kelly. And that's with them beating us at centre clearances 8 to 6 -- we were up 24 to 11 in stoppage clearances. McCarthy was our best, but Bella Lewis was phenomenal for a third gamer.

Everyone's pointing at what happened after halftime -- meh, teams get demoralised, the playing style's exhausting, sh*t happens. This season's all about building a foundation for next year, and that first half was super encouraging, it showed at full strength in 2022 we could have one of the best midfields in the comp. We just need strong marking players who can take grabs forward and back, help us slow the game down, control the play. Right now we've got one or two down back, and nothing up forward, which means we'll probably continue to get smashed in second halves in 2021, but for the future it doesn't mean that much because we'll be continually adding better players and cutting worse ones.

Next year we'll get Amy Franklin, who's 180cm and super fast, plus probably Charlotte Thomas who's in the 170s and has some of the best skills I've seen in a junior. The year after that, Ella Roberts, who's 177cm (might still be growing) and looks like she'll be one of the best players ever, was already running rings around AFLW seniors in the WAFLW as a 15 year old. Plus there'll be a bunch more we haven't seen much of yet. If we can add young stars forward and back to this midfield foundation we're building, we'll be fine. It'll just take a few years. Or three.

I'm betting a finals appearance in 2024. I'm patient, I'll wait.
Great post. I've seen very valid points on both sides, but for sure today's showing buoyed me more than otherwise.
 

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jatz14

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I'm not really across how the draft and trading work in this league, but it seems like we have some good top end talent with a long tail of players that just aren't up to it. How can the club go about rebuilding? Is it just a case of taking our medicine for a few years while we slowly build and develop (like GWS in AFL)?

The other recent expansion teams seem to be struggling too, with the exception of North.
The problem we face can be best illustrated by comparing to the situations in the mens. Lewis was our first pick, and is currently already having a big load placed on her, after 1 covid interrupted pre season of a few months, and 1 practice game. Compare to Schuey, how long was it before he got his first game, and then he steps in to a settled side with an established midfield. The situation is similar for the WAWFL and SANFL players we picked up. The South Australians didn't even get a full pre season.

The reality is, they cannot build a big enough tank, or really lock in a system in 1 pre season, but have to step into major onfield roles anyway. And that puts them up against players like Bowers and Kearney and Blackmore, who have been doing it for years.

Our other issue is, there are only 2 clubs taking from WA, so despite Freo being a powerhouse, they will get the second pick later this year. If Freo mens team are way below us on the ladder, they could conceivably end up with a couple of picks well before our first, but our womens team gets the 1st and 3rd pick, and Freo get 2nd and 4th (most likely), even if they win the lot.

It will take multiple drafts and several pre seasons.
 

jatz14

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Jesus did Gibbo seriously have 1 touch and 3 tackles in a whole game of footy?

That's even surpassing the massive expectations I had of her.




Plz delist.
She got a free kick in the first 30 sec. So it was 0 touches and 3 tackles in 95% of a game of footy.
 
Nov 13, 2014
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McDonald has been so far off the pace this year it’s not funny, she’s slow, making bad decisions and looking unfit. She can actually play forward if needed, so if Gilmores out, I’d be playing her forward and teaching Grace Kelly to play back on the talls because she’s lost up forward. It’s easier to teach a player to man up an opponent than to read the game if you’ve come from another sport.
I really like this idea. Grace has the tools to make a decent defender I reckon.

Although I wholeheartedly agree about McDonald (how many goals came about directly from her failing to impact a contest) she actually had a pretty decent Q2 I reckon.
 
Amy Franklin, who's 180cm and super fast, plus probably Charlotte Thomas who's in the 170s and has some of the best skills I've seen in a junior. The year after that, Ella Roberts
All 3 are jets.

Will be wonderful assets to our team.

There are more coming through as well, it’s just gonna take time.

WAFLW starts this weekend - U18 as well.

Can’t wait to see what talent is unearthed this season
 
She got a free kick in the first 30 sec. So it was 0 touches and 3 tackles in 95% of a game of footy.

And the ball LIVED in our F50 most of that 1st qtr.
 

jatz14

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And the ball LIVED in our F50 most of that 1st qtr.
At the moment she is doing no more than Davidson, but Davidson has upside, and looked involved and good in patches on the weekend. Its now at the stage where we can say Gibson doesn't have upside, what you see is what you get.
 

jatz14

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A positive to hang onto. We have won 4 quarters of football. Same as St Kilda, and more than GWS, who have both won a game, and more than Richmond, Geelong, GCS. Only 2 less than Bulldogs and Melbourne.

Given how hard the start of our draw has been, thats something.

Our problem is, we dont score enough when we win quarters, and we get scored against when we lose them.
 

jatz14

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Imo we have too many passengers when the heat gets turned up.
Gibson either needs to be played as a tagger or left out of the side. If she’s no good as a tagger she gets delisted.
McDonald has been so far off the pace this year it’s not funny, she’s slow, making bad decisions and looking unfit. She can actually play forward if needed, so if Gilmores out, I’d be playing her forward and teaching Grace Kelly to play back on the talls because she’s lost up forward. It’s easier to teach a player to man up an opponent than to read the game if you’ve come from another sport.
Bring Korme back in, play her on the wing, push Collier into the guts for a bit more size to help McCarthy & Swanson and push Bella Lewis forward where she excells at winning the ground ball and kicking goals. She can pinch hit in the middle when needed as can Cameron. Either way we need to change things up a bit as far as I’m concerned.
Watched it again. McDonald made some dumb blunders, and at the time I thought she was terrible, but on replay, her blunders stood out more, but she did some good things to. She wasn't quite as bad as I at first thought. I dont think Kelly would have been able to handle Wardlaw or Davidson.
 

AlphaSheep

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Watched it again. McDonald made some dumb blunders, and at the time I thought she was terrible, but on replay, her blunders stood out more, but she did some good things to. She wasn't quite as bad as I at first thought. I dont think Kelly would have been able to handle Wardlaw or Davidson.
She's only been playing the sport a short time, she was full time hockey a few years ago. She's been tossed as a key defender into one of the worst teams in the comp, playing on the best tall forwards in the comp. In another team the ball a) wouldn't be down there as often, b) wouldn't be down there as accurately due to the lack of pressure upfield when we get swamped in the second half and c) she'd have lots of other senior defenders to help her out.

Here she's got none of that. I'm prepared to cut her a lot of slack, she's been given a tough job for a veteran, let alone a newbie.
 

AlphaSheep

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All 3 are jets.

Will be wonderful assets to our team.

There are more coming through as well, it’s just gonna take time.

WAFLW starts this weekend - U18 as well.

Can’t wait to see what talent is unearthed this season
I was just reading an interview with the Claremont coach, he was saying they have a big crop of kids starting about Roberts' age that they're excited for. It seems like that's about the starting point for the really big junior talent wave in WA -- the draft at the end of 2022 leading to season 2023. Everything after that will get bonkers compared to today.

WA has 2.5 million people, so our talent pool is 1.25 mil per AFLW club. The Vics have a bit over 6 mil, so with 8 teams that's about 800,000 per club, 600,000 if they expand to ten teams. If WA's participation rate is the same, we should be able to get %50 more talent per team than the Vics, provided our participation rate is the same. That's one advantage of the isolated talent pools in the AFLW, for WA at least -- we've just been a little slower to get started. And it gives the Vics massive incentive to take the AFLW fully professional, so they can bludge off the rest of the nation's talent like they do in the AFL, and then complain about how terrible all these expansion teams are (couldn't resist).

Of course by the same metric, if Queensland and NSW can get their participation rates to match the rest of the country in women's footy, they'll be killing everyone. Given rugby's never likely to be as big among girls as it is among boys, it could even happen, at least to some degree.
 
I was just reading an interview with the Claremont coach, he was saying they have a big crop of kids starting about Roberts' age that they're excited for

Awesome - where is this interview?

WP's U18 team knocked the Tigers off by 2 points in a corker of a RND 7 match. The talent coming through is most certainly going to hit our AFLW clubs in WA come to draft 2022. Courtney Rowley from Peel will be another you can add - absolute BALL magnet at 17 in the Peel seniors side 2020.
 

AlphaSheep

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Awesome - where is this interview?

WP's U18 team knocked the Tigers off by 2 points in a corker of a RND 7 match. The talent coming through is most certainly going to hit our AFLW clubs in WA come to draft 2022. Courtney Rowley from Peel will be another you can add - absolute BALL magnet at 17 in the Peel seniors side 2020.
Yep, but I think she's definitely going to Freo. She's already a train-on with the Dockers, and midfield depth is about the only area of mild concern for them, so if we take Franklin at 1, they'll take Rowley for sure at pick 2.

The interview is here;

 
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