Fudge Nuggets
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It’s hard to believe, but the Poms actually got worse after the Ashes.
West Indies v England (5 T20s, 3 Tests- Jan 2022 to Mar 2022)
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- Apr 27, 2003
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England fan here, so I'll put my two penneth in.
Our problems can all be traced back to four sources in my view - the sidelining of the County Championship, the quality of pitches prepared in the County Championship, the MCC Coaching Book going out of the window, and the death of the game in the state school system.
The pushing of the County Championship to the edges of the summer has had a terrible effect on our Test Cricket, it has diminished the value of the Championship as many top players are in the IPL when the season starts, at a time when they could and should be playing for their counties. This means that younger players don't get exposed to these top players either on the field or in the dressing room and the opportunity to learn from them has diminished. By the time they get back from IPL it's straight into the International Cricket and the Blast or the Hundred. Speaking of which, how much more white-ball Cricket can the ECB fit in? The height of the summer is taken up by the Blast & the Hundred, you've also got the Royal London One-Day Cup going as well, but that's also been diminished with County sides being full of Second XI or Academy players because of the Hundred. They have to make a choice between the Blast or the Hundred, you can't have both. If you want Franchise Cricket, bite the bullet get rid of the Hundred and make the Franchises the new teams in the Blast.
The pushing of the season to the fringes of the summer also means the quality of pitches is poor. When it's cold and wet, you're going to have way too many green tops where the ball nibbles around, and 70-80mph medium pace swing bowlers can dominate - the Woakes' (and as a Warwickshire fan, I still love him) and Robinson's of this world. This means that batters can't get in and bat for a long innings when the ball is swinging around - also exacerbated by the Dukes ball. It also means that genuine pace bowlers or spinners also don't get a chance to develop because the pitches don't suit them. You can't be a top-class Test side without genuine pace and a top spinner. Now, we do have genuine pace - Archer, Wood, Stone have definitely got it - they're just always bloody injured. Leach bowls on probably the best turning deck in England at Taunton, but it's tough for anyone else, even Parkinson, who I think has done well to put himself in contention given Old Trafford doesn't favour a spinner as Taunton does for Leach.
Too many of our batters have been allowed to develop techniques that are not out of the MCC Coaching Manual. There are too many coaches encouraging funky and bespoke nonsense because of the continual push in all things in English society to do away with orthodoxy. How Rory Burns made it to County Cricket, let alone Tests, batting like he does is ridiculous. It's no coincidence that our best bat is Joe Root because he appears straight out of the MCC Coaching Manual. Guys like Zak Crawley and James Vince have got to Test level without being able to leave a ball outside off stump - how can that be? Now, of course, the pitches these guys are being developed on don't help, but these things should be being ironed out at the schoolboy level.
Speaking of which - given the England team is nearly all drawn from Independent Schools, surely all those fees or scholarships could at least pay for decent coaching? The wider problem is, how can the team improve when increasingly it is drawn from such a narrow segment of the population? Cricket is dying in the state school system and in the cities. How can kids get involved in a game when they have no facilities to play or can't afford the equipment? The game is on life-support in the Caribbean community who have largely abandoned it for Football and the Asian communities who love the game are still pushed to the fringes and haven't been encouraged to feel part of English Cricket. The white working class by and large can't afford to play or find a place to play. So many of the greats of English Cricket have come from this background and have often been the backbone and heart and soul of the team. A team drawn from Upper Middle Class independent schoolboys won't be successful, it's that simple.
With so many structural problems, I don't expect us to repeat the aberrations that were 2005 and 2009-2011 any time soon.
Our problems can all be traced back to four sources in my view - the sidelining of the County Championship, the quality of pitches prepared in the County Championship, the MCC Coaching Book going out of the window, and the death of the game in the state school system.
The pushing of the County Championship to the edges of the summer has had a terrible effect on our Test Cricket, it has diminished the value of the Championship as many top players are in the IPL when the season starts, at a time when they could and should be playing for their counties. This means that younger players don't get exposed to these top players either on the field or in the dressing room and the opportunity to learn from them has diminished. By the time they get back from IPL it's straight into the International Cricket and the Blast or the Hundred. Speaking of which, how much more white-ball Cricket can the ECB fit in? The height of the summer is taken up by the Blast & the Hundred, you've also got the Royal London One-Day Cup going as well, but that's also been diminished with County sides being full of Second XI or Academy players because of the Hundred. They have to make a choice between the Blast or the Hundred, you can't have both. If you want Franchise Cricket, bite the bullet get rid of the Hundred and make the Franchises the new teams in the Blast.
The pushing of the season to the fringes of the summer also means the quality of pitches is poor. When it's cold and wet, you're going to have way too many green tops where the ball nibbles around, and 70-80mph medium pace swing bowlers can dominate - the Woakes' (and as a Warwickshire fan, I still love him) and Robinson's of this world. This means that batters can't get in and bat for a long innings when the ball is swinging around - also exacerbated by the Dukes ball. It also means that genuine pace bowlers or spinners also don't get a chance to develop because the pitches don't suit them. You can't be a top-class Test side without genuine pace and a top spinner. Now, we do have genuine pace - Archer, Wood, Stone have definitely got it - they're just always bloody injured. Leach bowls on probably the best turning deck in England at Taunton, but it's tough for anyone else, even Parkinson, who I think has done well to put himself in contention given Old Trafford doesn't favour a spinner as Taunton does for Leach.
Too many of our batters have been allowed to develop techniques that are not out of the MCC Coaching Manual. There are too many coaches encouraging funky and bespoke nonsense because of the continual push in all things in English society to do away with orthodoxy. How Rory Burns made it to County Cricket, let alone Tests, batting like he does is ridiculous. It's no coincidence that our best bat is Joe Root because he appears straight out of the MCC Coaching Manual. Guys like Zak Crawley and James Vince have got to Test level without being able to leave a ball outside off stump - how can that be? Now, of course, the pitches these guys are being developed on don't help, but these things should be being ironed out at the schoolboy level.
Speaking of which - given the England team is nearly all drawn from Independent Schools, surely all those fees or scholarships could at least pay for decent coaching? The wider problem is, how can the team improve when increasingly it is drawn from such a narrow segment of the population? Cricket is dying in the state school system and in the cities. How can kids get involved in a game when they have no facilities to play or can't afford the equipment? The game is on life-support in the Caribbean community who have largely abandoned it for Football and the Asian communities who love the game are still pushed to the fringes and haven't been encouraged to feel part of English Cricket. The white working class by and large can't afford to play or find a place to play. So many of the greats of English Cricket have come from this background and have often been the backbone and heart and soul of the team. A team drawn from Upper Middle Class independent schoolboys won't be successful, it's that simple.
With so many structural problems, I don't expect us to repeat the aberrations that were 2005 and 2009-2011 any time soon.
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
He's a brilliant bowler with the Duke ball at home and that's the issue. Goes home averages about 10 with the ball...but away from home he's utterly hopeless.
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
I have been interested in Michael Vaughn's thoughts and his ideal of moving 2-3 County games away from home overseas to Dubai or whatever on flat wickets where they bring spinners into play and forces batsmen to bat long periods rather than be happy with a quick 30 odd. As a County fan would you be okay with moving a couple of games for the benefit of your long form game? Think there is some merit in not playing those early games in England as the pitches are too green. You shouldn't have 70mph blokes being unplayable.
- Apr 27, 2003
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It's a good idea, but the chances of any County membership allowing that to happen are zero. As a Warwickshire fan, we're pretty lucky as Edgbaston is one of the best surfaces in the country, so I wouldn't want to see us playing home games overseas. I'm hoping to see Stone in full flight in the couple of mid-summer games we have because he should have a pitch he can work with. That said, playing a couple of away games in the UAE or Oman early season might not be the worst thing. My answer probably also demonstrates that conundrum with English Cricket - none of us want to sacrifice anything that we love about County Cricket - even if it may be detrimental to the England team.
Well explained what a lot of problems are in their cricket and will not change whilst the same people running it are in charge. Needs a total overhaul from top to bottom of whole system.T20 cricket needs to be last priority, not first.
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
What about adding a couple of rounds overseas that way you aren't losing any home games? Yeah that's what Vaughn said the Counties would hate him for it. Just think when you have 50-70 mile an hour rubbish getting 6 for 10 or whatever that isn't helping anyone. Either there has to be a joint effort to say, listen we have to make the pitches flatter OR lets increase the season move two games overseas. Most of the counties have training camps in Dubai and what not anyway.
- Apr 27, 2003
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The other issue I missed now that I think of it - free to air television. Cricket has been behind the Sky paywall since 2005. You've now had a generation of kids that have not had the experience of watching a summer of Test Cricket and falling in love with the game. Yes, Sky money has done a lot for the game, yes their coverage is excellent, but you're locking out working-class people from the game who cannot afford a Sky subscription on top of the TV Licence. The one good thing about The Hundred is that it is on the BBC, so you are getting eyeballs on Cricket that haven't seen it for over 15 years.
- Apr 27, 2003
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I love the idea of more rounds of the Championship, the problem is fitting it all in. There is too much Cricket in the schedule (hence why the ECB need to choose between the Blast and the Hundred in my view), it could only work if you started the season at the beginning of March and I don't think there is any appetite to start that early.
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
The other thing is County cricket really hasn't prioritised test match batting, too often it's the "get 30 as quick as possible". That might be somewhat okay in England but it's not overseas. Overseas you need big hundreds and ideally someone other than Root doing so. The fact that Bairstow is your second best bat is a worry.
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
Fair enough, just thought it was interesting that Vaughn and Atherton were talking about it. I think Nasser was the other one but it might have been Rob Key. Was mainly Vaughn talking about it. Can see he is passionate about English cricket and he knows it's rotten to the core in terms of long form cricket.
- Apr 27, 2003
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County Cricket is a results business - members will not tolerate a team that doesn't win. Given the pitches and the weather on the fringes of summer, quick runs are necessary to give enough time to set up the chance of a win. It certainly doesn't lend itself to development. Sheffield Shield Cricket doesn't have that problem so much as the weather and pitches are reliable.
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
Yep which is why it's going to take an effort from everyone to change this. Not everyone is Root who can change from getting a quick 30 to getting big hundreds overseas. Most need practice playing these type of innings, and this in turn brings spin into play. Parkinson needs to be playing every game and so does Leech and whoever other ones you have.
- Jun 20, 2018
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Not sure of your knowledge of Australian cricket. But our cricket bosses did something similar a decade ago by savaging our red ball Shield comp with the commencement of T20 BBL. Instead of being able to play and watch all 10 Shield rounds consecutively we were being asked to to be happy with only five rounds before Christmas and then the final five rounds well into the New Year, breaking whatever momentum a team may have had, and no doubt breaking public interest too. There was an outcry that this iconic red ball competition was to be dissected to make way for a 20 over white ball comp. But our cricket bosses ignored the complaints then and now as BBL has proven by its popularity with families to be a major revenue earner.. its 'cash cow' as the media call it. So no way will they consider changing it from its present time frame which falls smack bang in our kids school hols.
Thankfully there is a still a robust cricket program in Australian secondary schools across most age groups. In addition each state and territory takes part in a national program for both boys and girls.
As for pitches. After enduring second rate decks, mostly drop ins which reduced the cricket to batting fests, there has been a concerted effort past two seasons to add some spice to make a fairer contest between bat and ball. And not before time. The rationale behind this may have been the dumping of an English Dukes ball used in the final five rounds of the season. This ball, altered for Aussie conditions, and introduced as a tool to use for upcoming Ashes tours was a godsend for the poor overworked swing bowlers in this country. But it was seen as too much in favor of pace, all but negating spin too. So the paceman went back to being a work horse after it was dumped and again the batting took over.
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Sheffield Shield still has problems
Like County cricket it has T20 cricket * up quite a few things about it.
It does not help development of youngsters when some of the elite players are off playing IPL or even international T20 cricket games thrown in that all add up to less Shield games by those guys which robs youngsters to both play with and against such players to learn and develop from the standards being raised. I suspect guys like Jack Edwards and a few others have stalled in development due to some of these impacts.
- Mar 25, 2003
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CA have treated the Sheffield Shield competition pretty shabbily but nothing on the scale of what the ECB has done to county cricket.
From mid July to mid September is basically the best time of the year to play and they get one solitary round of county games in. Compared to 1991 the same time period had approximately 8 games during that period. Games start early April now whereas 1991 season was an April 27 start.
At least in Australia we have a longer summer to play with so the pitch quality isn't an issue.
The shield competition has definitely been sidelined, but that's going to be the reality whilst T20 pulls in the money it does. For any Ashes summer or Indian tour of Australia, CA needs to at least commit to a schedule like 2017/18 where the test players are available for 3 lead-in shield games and have shield games running to at least the third test of those series. And furthermore commit to 2 lead-in shield games every other summer as much as feasible (fairly vague, but probably the best you could get out of them).
From mid July to mid September is basically the best time of the year to play and they get one solitary round of county games in. Compared to 1991 the same time period had approximately 8 games during that period. Games start early April now whereas 1991 season was an April 27 start.
At least in Australia we have a longer summer to play with so the pitch quality isn't an issue.
The shield competition has definitely been sidelined, but that's going to be the reality whilst T20 pulls in the money it does. For any Ashes summer or Indian tour of Australia, CA needs to at least commit to a schedule like 2017/18 where the test players are available for 3 lead-in shield games and have shield games running to at least the third test of those series. And furthermore commit to 2 lead-in shield games every other summer as much as feasible (fairly vague, but probably the best you could get out of them).
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I know serious cricket nuts will appreciate what Kraigg Brathwaite has been able to do over his career thus far in terms of how crucial he has been to the Windies being even remotely competitive, but I really that hope by the time his career is over (He will rack up at least 125 well deserved tests I think) he can push his average from 34 up to 38-39 or more. That and add at least another 10 tons to his current 10 so that when casuals check out his cricinfo profile, they will have some idea of how decent an opener he has been.
- Apr 11, 2015
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Langer looks to be at the centre of England's future coaching plans.
He has been in and around the set up since he was basically 17 so he had a period at the start where he wasn’t ready and the 18-24 months before last Caribbean summer was very poor but outside of that he’s generally been among the best 4-5 openers in the world at any given time. His restricted scoring ability is the only thing stopping him from a 40+ average, he’s out there longer than almost all the current openers. Considering how regularly he finds himself a man down when his partner departs early he’s done a great job.
MOst importantly he bleeds for the cap and I love him
For it
Also KB’ captaincy for such a naturally defensive player I actually think is quite proactive.
He didn’t go to Mayers as a last resort; In fact in both innings he held Joseph back until well into the innings almost as though he thought ‘well Joseph is my fastest bowler so he will get something out of this pitch whenever he bowls, but Mayers if I’m going to use him will be most effective when there’s a hard seam on the ball’ and rotated them accordingly.
He also showed a clear plan on how he was going to clean up the tail in the second innings, showing he had learned from the Leach Mahmood stand on day one.
He didn’t go to Mayers as a last resort; In fact in both innings he held Joseph back until well into the innings almost as though he thought ‘well Joseph is my fastest bowler so he will get something out of this pitch whenever he bowls, but Mayers if I’m going to use him will be most effective when there’s a hard seam on the ball’ and rotated them accordingly.
He also showed a clear plan on how he was going to clean up the tail in the second innings, showing he had learned from the Leach Mahmood stand on day one.
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Yeah, I was confused and a bit dirty when Jase got the lemon as skipper, but KB has done just as good a job. Holder had been in the job since he was a greenhorn and maybe it's the best thing for him considering he's so crucial with ball, bat and in the field. He still bleeds for the team and is a natural bloody leader for them, and KB as you said is tactically astute.
100 per cent.
Holder had a quiet series but still contributed - he was instrumental in drawing the first test, he ALWAYS gives control with the ball at the very least and he is a great catcher and invariably the most vocal man in the field and seeing his celebrations after they one - this is a guy that is absolutely the heart and soul of the team and lives for it. I love the vibe the team have created at the moment. We sure as hell aren’t the best or most talented but there is no doubting the commitment to the cause
You make some very good points, Ray, and this is certainly a crucial one.Cricket is just not in the public eye any more. We don't even get a highlights programme on Channel Five any more.
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