Unsolved West Memphis 3

[Strapping Young Lad]

From what I have read it seems fairly likely that they did it but the initial investigation, trial and conviction was deeply, deeply flawed and they never should have been convicted on the basis of the evidence.

One of the more serious failures of the legal system I've seen.

Don't you mean, that they shouldn't have been convicted on the basis of there being NO evidence.

Apart from the well lead 'confession' of a teenager who was functioning at the capacity of a 5yr old(and who confessed to killing the boys at the completely wrong time of day - which should've rendered his confession inadmissible), the evidence proving motive or even capability to commit the murders was completely missing.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

My take is if they did do it the police would have got more evidence from Jessie Misskelley (like a body,blood etc) I cant remember but the police tried to use Misskelley to flip on the other 2.I guess if they did do it jessie would have got a deal to give evidence against the other 2boys.

There were bodies, there was also blood.
All three children were bound, and naked when found. They'd also received some bites and marks from the local critters in the creek bed were they lay.....that the prosecution put forward as hunting knife marks, and signs of satanic rituals at play.

None of the DNA at the crime scene matched any of the 3 convicted teenagers. Hair from Stevie Branch's step father however, was found in one of the ligatures that was used to hog tie the boys.

 

[Caesar]

Like I said, they shouldn't have been convicted.

Paradise Lost and The Devil's Knot present a pretty one-sided picture of the case insofar as they go past presenting the egregious problems with police procedure and the process of the trial to the point of implying that this makes them innocent.

After reading most of the stuff I still think they probably did it. Probably's not good enough though. At the end of the day it was a terrible conviction that was rightly overturned.

 

[Lockyer24]

I'm on the WM3s side but agree Paradise Lost wasn't an overly unbiased POV.
They had Byers all but strung up at one point.
There's a lot of things you read that doesn't add up for the WM3. Problem is there's so much crap and lies throughout it all its hard to reconcile. There's no doubt a reasonable jury wouldn't have found them guilty though.

 

[CrippsonBlue]

I've sought a lot of info of this over the years, barely any of which I recall being delivered impartially so it is hard to form any objective opinions with this case.

My inclination was one of the victim's father/step-father did it (can't recall exactly who now) and pretty sure there was even new evidence (blood?) within the last year or so which seemed to support this possibility.

The worst thing about this case is that the death of the three boys' has been overshadowed by the 'WM3'

 

[Magpira]

I've sought a lot of info of this over the years, barely any of which I recall being delivered impartially so it is hard to form any objective opinions with this case.

My inclination was one of the victim's father/step-father did it (can't recall exactly who now) and pretty sure there was even new evidence (blood?) within the last year or so which seemed to support this possibility.

The worst thing about this case is that the death of the three boys' has been overshadowed by the 'WM3'

Same here for me. I am obsessed over this case and have been for a while now. I have read every book and online documentation on both sides, and own the Paradise Lost series and am still extremely confused as to whether or not Damien, Jason and Jessie are infact guilty.

John Mark Byers (Christopher's father inlaw) is also indeed a very interesting character. He has a history of abuse and apparently did abuse Christopher, also suspicion about his involvement in the death of Melissa Byers too. John Mark Byers is clearly a total nutcase but I am not convinced he is actually guilty. But as horrible (and sorry if I offend) as it sounds, I think Christopher was saved from a lifetime of growing up with this freakshow.

BUT the other stepfather (I think you mean) is Terry Hobbs (Stevie's father inlaw), he seems to have motive, if you listen to Pam Hobbs of late and as far as I'm concerned he actually could have very well been capable of this crime.

I also agree that the media circus surrounding the WM3 has indeed overshadowed the REAL issue here which is to bring justice for Christopher, Michael and Stevie but it saddens to think that their killers will never be apprehended, but they unfortunately are just one of many thousands of unsolved murders.

FYI the latest documentary on WM3 'West Of Memphis' is due for Australian release on Feb 14, 2013.

 

[BACCS]

Just had a read of the wiki, wow. Has any of police, judges etc involved in the case ever had a case to answer themselves, or at least been stood down from their jobs? Sound like complete nimrods.

 

[Caesar]

They were hired by SACA to become groundskeepers at Adelaide Oval.

 

[vast]

The opening of Paradise Lost is something I wish I never saw.

 

[Jaeger]

Just finished watching Paradise Lost 3. I've seen the other two.

It's hard to believe how backward they are in Arkansas.

I was sure Mark Byers was the murderer after Paradise Lost 1 & 2, now I'm convinced it's Terry Hobbs. Even when they show a clip of all the parents finding out about their kids, his reaction is very suspicious. But he's clearly a violent person, his wife was cheating on him at the time, his whereabouts on the night of the murders is unclear (his only eye witness denies seeing him) and people claim to have seen him with the boys that night, which he denied.

I assume they can't investigate further or charge him because the WM3 had to plead guilty to be released and to stop Damien Echols being executed. There isn't a word to describe how ridiculous it all is.

It's an incredible story, but it's one you'd think happened over 100 years ago and not so recently.

I'm sure all of the WM3 have moved far away from West Memphis now.

 

[JDC!]

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I think I want my 11 minutes back.

Ask yourself this, if the concocted stories in this youtube clip are factual, why would 2 of the parents of the murdered children believe the WM3 to be innocent, after earlier wanting their heads on a platter?

You don't watch your children get buried, wish death to the killers and then just flip your thoughts about who did it with nothing to back it up, or in this case, ignoring all the evidence you've supposedly sat through, or has been told to you by prosecutors and policeman who are set on putting the murderers behind bars.

This clip makes little sense in that context. If what it's claiming is even half true, how have two parents still come to the conclusion that Echols, Baldwin and Misskelly were convicted with little evidence.

One of the crazier things I've found in my time of following this case, is god fearing people who still buy the whole "Satan worshippers" theory, and who pass judgement on Echol's schoolyard trouble as proof that he was evil incarnate, and this video touches on that also.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Just finished watching Paradise Lost 3. I've seen the other two.

It's hard to believe how backward they are in Arkansas.

I was sure Mark Byers was the murderer after Paradise Lost 1 & 2, now I'm convinced it's Terry Hobbs. Even when they show a clip of all the parents finding out about their kids, his reaction is very suspicious. But he's clearly a violent person, his wife was cheating on him at the time, his whereabouts on the night of the murders is unclear (his only eye witness denies seeing him) and people claim to have seen him with the boys that night, which he denied.

I assume they can't investigate further or charge him because the WM3 had to plead guilty to be released and to stop Damien Echols being executed. There isn't a word to describe how ridiculous it all is.

It's an incredible story, but it's one you'd think happened over 100 years ago and not so recently.

I'm sure all of the WM3 have moved far away from West Memphis now.

Baldwin is studying Law in Seattle. Echols lives with his wife in another state(cannot remember off the top of my head), and has not set foot back into Arkansas since he was let free.
Misskelly is supposedly not dealing with outside life at all well, according to a recent interview with Echols, who's explained that he doesn't leave his house(trailer) for fear of being picked up again and convicted of another crime. The outside world is not his friend.

You've got to remember Jessie is working within a limited capacity mentally, and even though he's now a fully grown adult, his state of mind during the years of sitting in a jail cell have no doubt messed him up even further now that he's out.

 

[JDC!]

Echols So are the "facts" in that video I posted simply untrue? I genuinely don't know enough about the case to determine whether they are or not.

Is there still any reasonably minded person out there that believes that Misskelly, Baldwin and Echols are guilty?

 

[Magpira]

I've said previously, I am somewhat undecided but leaning more to the innocent corner. I've gone over it and over it by reading up on both points of view and I can't figure how the WM3 could've had such smooth sailing with the murders of these boys?

According to part of Jessie's coerced confession, he said that they were hanging out in Robin Hood Hills that day and the three boys happened to turn up, and when they were spotted, Damien was apparently the one who said 'let's get them' or whatever transpired there...

So what I am trying to grasp is, if the WM3 are guilty... Firstly, it was an opportune crime for them clearly, and as there is no history that the WM3 had ever previously been involved in any type of killing of anything, it seems odd that they all of sudden conjured up these brutal slayings and carried them out like professionals, leaving no trace of evidence of themselves? I think that the first time you did a murder, (especially one as vile and brutal as this one) you'd be pretty spun out, especially if you didn't have a cruel and sadistic history (only Damien is said to have been involved in ritualistic slaughters of animals due to his interest in the occult - which by the way is purely heresay and unreliable witness testimony). Yes, if you are that way inclined and evil as hell then you might develop a taste for it, but surely the first time would leave you a tad tripped out? Yet they seemed to just pick up and continue with their lives as though not having a care in the world, I mean Jason went back to school the next day ffs.

The crime scene was basically clean, there was hardly any evidence for police to go on except a negroid hair found on Christopher Byers and a hair matched to Terry Hobbs on the shoelaces Stevie Branch was hog-tied with. Well the negroid hair is the most interesting, insofar as Terry Hobbs had an African American friend who was with him on that particular day and later that night, the manager of Bojangles Diner (which is near the murder site), placed a call to police stating that an African American man covered in mud and blood just stumbled into their diner around 9pm and used the bathroom. When police finally did check it out, they were able to take some blood samples from the bathroom but somehow these samples seemed to have been misplaced and are still to this day, no where to be found, so unfortunately couldn't be DNA tested and submitted into evidence for the trial, how convenient for the prosecution.

As for Terry Hobbs, well you could argue that of course his hair might be somewhere on Stevie Branch as he was Stevie's stepfather and lived in the same house. But just as people are quick to cite Damien's psychological history and jessie's history of school yard type scuffles, then both John Byers and Terry Hobbs have tainted histories riddled with violence, prison time and drugs, doesn't that make them just as qualified? There is also talk of Terry Hobb's family members in California (where Terry and friend fled a little while after) stating that both Terry and said African American man had spoken of the crime they committed, yet no further investigation by the West Memphis Police was made into these allegations?

There is also talk, due to lack of blood surrounding the crime scene that the murders had happened elsewhere and the bodies were later dumped at the site. If that was the case, neither Damien, Jason or Jessie drove or owned a car, so how would they transport the bodies and bikes? And if they did do it at the site then how can three novice's, who happened upon an opportune crime, do such a marvelous job at concealing any evidence? The crime scene uncovered not a single, solitary shred of evidence including blood, fibres, hair, semen or saliva from any of the accused boys. Even the bite marks on Stevie's face were inconclusive as to whether they were animal or human, which befuddles me, but there you go. All they had to go on was heresay regarding Damien's occult interests and depression problems and Jessie's coerced confession.

So to me that is completely incomprehensible as I myself, own books on the occult and satanism, I listen to various metal music and I own a shitload of of black clothes and rock t-shirts, seriously three quarters of my wardrobe is friggen black! So if this is all they need then they may as well put me on trial, along with a million others.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Echols So are the "facts" in that video I posted simply untrue? I genuinely don't know enough about the case to determine whether they are or not.

Is there still any reasonably minded person out there that believes that Misskelly, Baldwin and Echols are guilty?

I think magpira has covered it beautifully.

As for all the points in that clip, I'm not sure how truthful they are, but I'm very untrusting of "facts" presented in a home made clip that's been uploaded to Youtube.

 

[Lockyer24]

Damien lives in Oregon I think?
He's on twitter and is fairly active.

For those who haven't seen it google 'the manhole theory' for someone's take on what might have happened.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Damien lives in Oregon I think?
He's on twitter and is fairly active.

For those who haven't seen it google 'the manhole theory' for someone's take on what might have happened.

That's the one.

Yeah, I'm currently reading his book, which is a pretty fascinating if not slightly confronting. Good read though.

 

[Magpira]

This is an interesting POV on Terry Hobbs

 

[Caesar]

Is there still any reasonably minded person out there that believes that Misskelly, Baldwin and Echols are guilty?

It is my understanding that a lot of people still regard them as the most likely suspects. Certainly, from my readings on the matter I would put my money on them.

However there is not, and probably never will be, enough evidence to know for sure who did it.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Police don't fabricate evidence.

This is a patent lie.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It is my understanding that a lot of people still regard them as the most likely suspects. Certainly, from my readings on the matter I would put my money on them.

However there is not, and probably never will be, enough evidence to know for sure who did it.

Where do you read this stuff Ceasar?

 

[Caesar]

Do you disagree that many people associated with the case still believe they are guilty?

All I am saying is that there is a lot of stuff about the WM3 that is a bit whiffy and was glossed over by the popular accounts. Echols' degree of knowledge about the bodies has never really been comprehensively explained, neither has why he offered a false alibi at the trial, or why he bragged about the murders.

That the kids should never have been convicted is not something I dispute. There really is not much evidence pointing to anybody, them included. But if you put together a betting market of all the alleged suspects, all things considered I'd still have my money on the three.

Someone cynical might say that the reason they pled guilty a few months before they would have received a retrial at which they were certain to be acquitted is that Paradise Lost had painted a far clearer picture of their innocence in the minds of the public than a trial would have.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

You would make a prick of a judge.

 

[Caesar]

Maybe so, but how does that follow from what I've posted here? I've emphasised multiple times that the evidence did not come anywhere near what's required to merit a conviction.

My personal opinion is that there are a fair few things about their story that stinks, which tarnishes the halo the media have given somewhat and in my view still makes them the most likely suspects. My personal opinion is lightyears from BRD, as I've stated repeatedly.