Western Bulldogs and their partnership with Ballarat a success

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TiAn_

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Playing home and away games at Ballarat will attract next to no growth in our membership. Never will in its current format. It is work done by the club in the community that will grow support in a region. Melton is a larger and growing region than Ballarat. Playing at Ballarat will not attract new Melton supporters, getting involved in Melton and Wyndham will as you get the kids, you can get the parents. It is easier for Melton based supporters ie families to get to Marvel than it is to get to Ballarat.

It is why the stated aim of playing games in Ballarat is a nonsense. It will not grow our base. It is however a good cash grab, but the question I would ask is it the best cash grab we can get? MD says China, me I am not to fussed.

Saying it is close to our home as apposed to say Cairns as if this is some sort of benefit to the vast majority of current members and supporters is also a nonsense when accessibility's average just to get there and once there cannot even accommodate even 20% of our membership base. That means by the way you are disenfranchising 80% of your members.

We only have 2 assets to grow our base. They are our home games and our players. They are both finite resources so make sure there is a clear goal and ojective with measurable KPI's before you implement them. Provide these and most members will go on the journey. This has not happend for Ballarat.

Btw the best way to grow the base is to win, so maybe trying to negotiate a game or 2 more at the MCG instead of Ballarat may actually help that one
Playing home and away games in Ballarat will attract next to no growth in our membership? Says you. Got anything to back that statement up?..

And playing games near Melton won’t help attract supporters in Melton? Haha ridiculous.

The club has had a specific school program for Melton and Wyndham for most of this decade. Conveniently ignoring that?

Giving 20% of our fans the ability to attend Ballarat games (your random figure) is no better than 1% that can attend a random game in Cairns? lol you can’t be serious. That’s just plainly illogical.

Expecting the club to release its internal KPIs to the public because you can’t get your head around the litany of reasons why the strategy makes more sense than the alternatives?... just brilliant. Maybe the club should let all members sit on coaching appointment panels too. Or release our on-field strategies to the public after losses. All equally sensible.

No, it’s the games in Ballarat that’s “nonsense”... lol
 

lachy

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Playing home and away games in Ballarat will attract next to no growth in our membership? Says you. Got anything to back that statement up?..

So explain how playing home games in Ballarat will grow membership? What is the base of supporters playing there will attract that cannot be attracted by other means, and how will it generated more growth than allocating those same resources in a much larger base. How will playing games in Ballarat grow the base more than playing all games in Melbourne? What are the demographics in Ballarat around football that CAN generate more members by playing there.

And playing games near Melton won’t help attract supporters in Melton? Haha ridiculous.

What you mean Melton, the same place that is easier to get to Marvel stadium than it is to Ballarat. Ha Ha yeah thats ridiculous

The club has had a specific school program for Melton and Wyndham for most of this decade. Conveniently ignoring that?

Has it? How has it compared to North, Geelong, Collingwood and Essendon in the same region? How much stronger could it be if those times spent in Ballarat were spent in those regions. Players can't be everywhere, there is only so many of them so where is the best allocation to attract supporters. How many kids have you had in these area's at school and how many times did our players attend. BTW I am not saying the intent of the club is bad, actually the intent is very good, but the resources are not there to spread to thin.

Giving 20% of our fans the ability to attend Ballarat games (your random figure) is no better than 1% that can attend a random game in Cairns? lol you can’t be serious. That’s just plainly illogical.

Obviously you are a mathematical genius, quite clearly. The stadium can hold at max 8,000 of our supporters. we have well over 40,000 members. Not sure how that is a random figure its a statistical fact, and in fact is generous. Another statistical fact is the same amount of members can attend the Cairns game that can attend Ballarat. As on your figures you are saying that no more than 400 odd supporters can attend Cairns. Yep that is logical and also incorrect

Expecting the club to release its internal KPIs to the public because you can’t get your head around the litany of reasons why the strategy makes more sense than the alternatives?... just brilliant. Maybe the club should let all members sit on coaching appointment panels too. Or release our on-field strategies to the public after losses. All equally sensible.

No, if you want your constituents, which in the case of a football club, its members, to come along and support your initiatives at least show them respect and provide some substantive reasons for putting the majority of your support base in a significantly worse position if they wish to go to every home game to get value for their support than some marketing wishy washy spin believed only by the gullible and Naive. If its purely cash that's ok, but every move we have made selling our home games have been to 'grow our base'. Selling home games has never been for anything else other than money and it is always detrimental to team performance, making it a little more difficult than it is for our opponents

No, it’s the games in Ballarat that’s “nonsense”... lol
If it is for anything other than the money we are being paid for playing there, yes it is. We have looked at Geelong and seen what they have made from their government funded home ground. There is one massive different Geelong are actually the team from Geelong
 

Mattdougie

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It so obvious who has had any experience running any sort of business and those that haven’t.

Some of the arguments in here are laughable. They would send a company broke in short time.

In the 3 games we have averaged less than 8000 people to games. Now let’s pretend we are the only fans going that is approx. Thats around 18.5% of members that have chosen to go BUT it is also 81.5% of members that have said no thanks.

I’d love to see the numbers of actual Ballarat full members. I sure we have lost more members due to this dud idea than we have picked up from Ballarat.

But I guess some are prepared to argue against what they know is true simply so they don’t have to defer to others.
 

VogonProsthetnic

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Tell me how the stadium the AFL own outright won’t be around?

What business plan would exist for them to rip it down?

Point Cook, Tarneit, Truganina, Werribee, Wyndhamvale are all growing at monumental rates.

Please explain how targeting any other area than that makes sense? I guess Collingwood are deep into the area because they see no future and should head to Bendigo perhaps?

Mate- check out where the metro growth boundaries are in 2018. Almost closer to Geelong and Ballarat than the CBD. Where do you think they will be in 2048?

MArvel will go the same way as Waverley Park in the 1990s.

Too big for the games played there, on super valuable real estate and too hard to maintain.

I'm guessing the AFL will go for smaller boutique stadiums that they can sell out and charge big $$$ to attend.
 

lachy

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Mate- check out where the metro growth boundaries are in 2018. Almost closer to Geelong and Ballarat than the CBD. Where do you think they will be in 2048?

MArvel will go the same way as Waverley Park in the 1990s.

Too big for the games played there, on super valuable real estate and too hard to maintain.

I'm guessing the AFL will go for smaller boutique stadiums that they can sell out and charge big $$$ to attend.
Where the urban growth boundries are in 2048 is open to conjecture but at the moment well over 200,000 and well over 130,000 are already within 30 minutes of the Western Oval and are significantly more accessible to Marvel than to Ballarat. Ballarat still operates a single rail line for most of the journey there.

You may be right with your conjecture about Marvel, However with over $300 million to be spent on the ground it is impossible to see the AFL moving out of there for at least a generation. The AFL already has land near North Melbourne junction for a boutique stadium and there is a push to upgrade Optus Oval.

Al stadiums at the moment are being expanded for greater capacity not less so for your guess to be correct there would need to be a significant turnaround from the AFL's current modus operandi but it is possible. After the next redevelopment the Whitten oval will have as big if not bigger capacity than Ballarat. A point of interest though is the state government tying up the funds for the Whitten re development to our club continuing to agree with the Ballarat experiment for another 4 years
 

Mattdougie

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Mate- check out where the metro growth boundaries are in 2018. Almost closer to Geelong and Ballarat than the CBD. Where do you think they will be in 2048?

MArvel will go the same way as Waverley Park in the 1990s.

Too big for the games played there, on super valuable real estate and too hard to maintain.

I'm guessing the AFL will go for smaller boutique stadiums that they can sell out and charge big $$$ to attend.

I have and Point Cook, Hoppers, Sunbury, Caro Springs and Wyndhamvale are in the top 20 growth areas in Victoria.

That’s 1/4 of the fastest growing suburbs in the state and they are all closer to Marvel than Ballarat and easier to get to.

What the hell had geelong got to do with anything? They have their own team but I guarantee if they paid us a million a year we would be playing there.

So we are planning for 2048 now? What’s wrong with trying to get new members in growth areas in 2019?

So you think with a growing population, increased membership the AFL will build smaller stadiums to fit less peole in??? Ummmmmm ok
 

VogonProsthetnic

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I have and Point Cook, Hoppers, Sunbury, Caro Springs and Wyndhamvale are in the top 20 growth areas in Victoria.

That’s 1/4 of the fastest growing suburbs in the state and they are all closer to Marvel than Ballarat and easier to get to.

What the hell had geelong got to do with anything? They have their own team but I guarantee if they paid us a million a year we would be playing there.

So we are planning for 2048 now? What’s wrong with trying to get new members in growth areas in 2019?

So you think with a growing population, increased membership the AFL will build smaller stadiums to fit less peole in??? Ummmmmm ok

This is the AFL you are talking, do you think they will care about maximising attendances when they sell out smaller stadia and make everyone who wants to go sign up for memberships? Look what happened to Waverley Park which was still popular with the fans and held 70k. Being big didn't save it.

With the airport rail link from regional areas through Sunshine being upgraded and the new Metro tunnel I don't think accessibility from the west will be the issue.

My main concern would be for the people living in the east who support us, hopefully some accomodation could be made for them for the AFL, AFLW and Footscray games at Ballarat.
 

Mattdougie

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This is the AFL you are talking, do you think they will care about maximising attendances when they sell out smaller stadia and make everyone who wants to go sign up for memberships? Look what happened to Waverley Park which was still popular with the fans and held 70k. Being big didn't save it.

With the airport rail link from regional areas through Sunshine being upgraded and the new Metro tunnel I don't think accessibility from the west will be the issue.

My main concern would be for the people living in the east who support us, hopefully some accomodation could be made for them for the AFL, AFLW and Footscray games at Ballarat.
Of course they care about attendance figures

They manipulate the draw every year to maximise them I can’t see how anyone would think they will go the other way mate.

I’d imagine they would want to build a couple of 40-60k stadiums in outer suburban areas to maximise their coverage before they build boutique stadia.
 

TiAn_

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How will playing games in Ballarat grow the base more than playing all games in Melbourne? What are the demographics in Ballarat around football that CAN generate more members by playing there.
Jesus H Christ. We HAVE to sell games at the moment to fund the development of WO. The choice isn't between playing games in Ballarat and playing games in Melbourne. I can't believe I keep seeing this argument being made.

This is nearly as dumb as trying to argue that the alternative to playing H&A games in Ballarat is to have even more school visits in Point Cook. Or playing in China is better for the club than playing in Victoria. lol, pls...

Remember, you're the one saying that playing in Ballarat will do nothing for membership. I asked you what you're basing that on and you came back with nothing.

Has it? How has it compared to North, Geelong, Collingwood and Essendon in the same region? How much stronger could it be if those times spent in Ballarat were spent in those regions. Players can't be everywhere, there is only so many of them so where is the best allocation to attract supporters. How many kids have you had in these area's at school and how many times did our players attend. BTW I am not saying the intent of the club is bad, actually the intent is very good, but the resources are not there to spread to thin.
How do you know the resources are spread thin by playing in Ballarat? What are you basing this on? Absolutely nothing, again?

Obviously you are a mathematical genius, quite clearly. The stadium can hold at max 8,000 of our supporters. we have well over 40,000 members. Not sure how that is a random figure its a statistical fact, and in fact is generous. Another statistical fact is the same amount of members can attend the Cairns game that can attend Ballarat. As on your figures you are saying that no more than 400 odd supporters can attend Cairns. Yep that is logical and also incorrect

Mars Stadium can hold 10,000. Genius.

Surely you have to realise that arguing that the same number of members can attend both Ballarat and CAIRNS based just on ground capacity and not where our members are actually located is seriously stupid?

No, if you want your constituents, which in the case of a football club, its members, to come along and support your initiatives at least show them respect and provide some substantive reasons for putting the majority of your support base in a significantly worse position if they wish to go to every home game to get value for their support than some marketing wishy washy spin believed only by the gullible and Naive. If its purely cash that's ok, but every move we have made selling our home games have been to 'grow our base'. Selling home games has never been for anything else other than money and it is always detrimental to team performance, making it a little more difficult than it is for our opponents


Sigh. How is this some mystery to you? I mean, honestly... What are you even complaining about at this point? That the club hasn't said "nah Ballarat sucks but just we like the money and stuff". I mean, what world are you living in? Our own CEO has already made it as clear as day:

“The many benefits to the Club as a result of the Ballarat deal include a significant uplift in our annual revenues and the strength of our balance sheet rising by millions of dollars as a result of an overall strategy in which Ballarat played a key role."

But nah, stuff the revenue, lets scrap the games in Ballarat and throw some extra Sherrins at kids in Tarneit while we pay to host the Suns at Marvel. lol. Brilliant.
 

TiAn_

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I have and Point Cook, Hoppers, Sunbury, Caro Springs and Wyndhamvale are in the top 20 growth areas in Victoria.

That’s 1/4 of the fastest growing suburbs in the state and they are all closer to Marvel than Ballarat and easier to get to.

So you think with a growing population, increased membership the AFL will build smaller stadiums to fit less peole in??? Ummmmmm ok
Someone get Ameet on the line, Matthew has cracked the code! We can just sell our games to "Point Cook, Hoppers, Sunbury, Caro Springs and Wyndhamvale" rather than Ballarat. Wow!
 

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lachy

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Jesus H Christ. We HAVE to sell games at the moment to fund the development of WO. The choice isn't between playing games in Ballarat and playing games in Melbourne. I can't believe I keep seeing this argument being made.

This is nearly as dumb as trying to argue that the alternative to playing H&A games in Ballarat is to have even more school visits in Point Cook. Or playing in China is better for the club than playing in Victoria. lol, pls...

Remember, you're the one saying that playing in Ballarat will do nothing for membership. I asked you what you're basing that on and you came back with nothing.



How do you know the resources are spread thin by playing in Ballarat? What are you basing this on? Absolutely nothing, again?



Mars Stadium can hold 10,000. Genius.

Surely you have to realise that arguing that the same number of members can attend both Ballarat and CAIRNS based just on ground capacity and not where our members are actually located is seriously stupid?



Sigh. How is this some mystery to you? I mean, honestly... What are you even complaining about at this point? That the club hasn't said "nah Ballarat sucks but just we like the money and stuff". I mean, what world are you living in? Our own CEO has already made it as clear as day:

“The many benefits to the Club as a result of the Ballarat deal include a significant uplift in our annual revenues and the strength of our balance sheet rising by millions of dollars as a result of an overall strategy in which Ballarat played a key role."

But nah, stuff the revenue, lets scrap the games in Ballarat and throw some extra Sherrins at kids in Tarneit while we pay to host the Suns at Marvel. lol. Brilliant.
Cricky never new someone could say absolutely nothing to support their view and then mock whilst still saying nothing
Well done TiAn guess you must be the mouthpiece of this great strategy, kudos to you. It is great and you are brilliant well done
 

lachy

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Someone get Ameet on the line, Matthew has cracked the code! We can just sell our games to "Point Cook, Hoppers, Sunbury, Caro Springs and Wyndhamvale" rather than Ballarat. Wow!
Shite MD bow to the great oracle Tian. Clearly he has run many a business, coached many a club and knows way more than you.

Anyone against the great Ballarat adventure should be hung drawn amd quartered as it is a forgone conclusion that it is better than any othet alternative, TiAn says so.

See you at the footy MD for a beer
 

DelRe

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This is from the annual report which provides some insight into what the club is doing in the West.

Marketing and Fan Engagement

The Club remains committed to driving total supporter growth and engagement in both heartland and expansion markets. A key pillar of the marketing and fan engagement strategy is to broaden the appeal of the Bulldogs brand throughout the west of Melbourne and the Club delivered several new activations in 2018 at events including the Seddon Festival, Begonia Festival, Yarraville Festival, Victoria University Open Days, Chillout Festival, Werribee Mansion Fun Run, Mother’s Day Classic Fun Run, Million Paws Walk Ballarat, Fitness Show Melbourne and Festival of Lights Ceremony.
The Bulldogs likewise continued its push to influence generational change across the supporter base by seeking to connect with young families and kids through schools, participation and event-led environments. New partnerships with Highpoint Shopping Centre and the Royal Melbourne Show enabled the Club to engage with kids across school holiday themed events, driving significant growth in the Pack Kids Club to well over 9000 contacts. Other key fan engagement initiatives included:
- The continuation of the Bulldogs Friendly Schools program into 12 schools across the west. A review of current schools program has been undertaken with plans to roll out a new curriculum aligned program for 2019.
- 24 Victoria University students facilitated the Bulldogs Friendly Schools Program.
- 72 Roadshows delivered throughout the western corridor.
- 25 SEDA students volunteered at several Western Bulldogs events and match days.
- Grassroots football support with a Western Region Football League sponsorship. Western Bulldogs
branded Sporting Schools Program for Terms 2 and 3 with saw an increase in participation
compared with 2017.
- Western Bulldogs junior member clinics ran at Victoria University Whitten Oval for over 1200 junior
members.
 

DelRe

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This is the commentary on Ballarat in the annual report, which provides some insight into the strategy and also the membership numbers. Interestingly, the strategy is said to have added many millions in revenue (possibly including development grants to make that statement) and that Ballarat memberships increased relative to an overall membership decrease.

Ballarat

The Club’s commitment to and endeavours in Ballarat are continuing. The Ballarat initiative provides a cohesive and integrated approach to build our hold on the region to the west of Melbourne, our long-term strategy to build supporter base size and membership and our ability to contribute to the western region as a whole.
The Ballarat commitment has added many millions to our revenues since it began and it is a cornerstone to the productive and mutually beneficial relationship we enjoy with Daniel Andrews’ Victorian Government, both as to Ballarat and to the Whitten Oval.
That said, we acknowledge that Mars Stadium needs development to cope with the days of inclement weather which will inevitably occur in the Ballarat winter.
We apologise to our members that arrangements were substandard for game days in 2018 and we thank the Andrews Government for its recent $12,000,000 commitment to improving amenities for future match days.


Membership and Ticketing

The Western Bulldogs finished the year with 43,238 members (a 10% decrease from 2017). The majority of this decrease was due to the Club ceasing to issue around 5,000 complimentary memberships. We thank our loyal members for their continued support of the Club.
Over the year there was growth in some specific membership categories including a 42% increase in AFLW memberships and 14% increase in Ballarat memberships, which resulted in overall membership revenue of $7.59 million.
 

TiAn_

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Cricky never new someone could say absolutely nothing to support their view and then mock whilst still saying nothing
Well done TiAn guess you must be the mouthpiece of this great strategy, kudos to you. It is great and you are brilliant well done
Shite MD bow to the great oracle Tian. Clearly he has run many a business, coached many a club and knows way more than you.

Anyone against the great Ballarat adventure should be hung drawn amd quartered as it is a forgone conclusion that it is better than any othet alternative, TiAn says so.

See you at the footy MD for a beer
The Oracle says touting your ‘business credentials’ doesn’t make your argument any less stupid.
 

lachy

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The Oracle says touting your ‘business credentials’ doesn’t make your argument any less stupid.
Have to agree that the one whose debating has the substance of three word slogan Tony Abbot and the humour of John Blackman should be running the club and clearly has run many successful a business. Of course the way to show all those with a counter argument is their argument is just stupid and add a lol and hahaha.
Well done
 

dogwatch

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It's an interesting debate which had great potential were it not for the mockery and baiting on both sides by just a few. It shuts down wider participation pretty quickly.

Thanks DelRe for providing some statements from the club and for stating the source. They might not resolve the discussion but they shed some much needed light on it.

Both the potential and the limits of BF have been shown here in the last day or two. Easy to see why so many don't bother engaging.
 

Mattdougie

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Shite MD bow to the great oracle Tian. Clearly he has run many a business, coached many a club and knows way more than you.

Anyone against the great Ballarat adventure should be hung drawn amd quartered as it is a forgone conclusion that it is better than any othet alternative, TiAn says so.

See you at the footy MD for a beer
No idea who you are on about mate I most likely have her on ignore.

I assume I’m not missing much though, just superfluous argument due to inability to accept error. I wonder if they admit when they forget to fill the whole order at the drive thru.

Anyway I’m off to send people to clean toilets apparently so enjoy this lovely day mate.
 

King Harold

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No idea who you are on about mate I most likely have her on ignore.

I assume I’m not missing much though, just superfluous argument due to inability to accept error. I wonder if they admit when they forget to fill the whole order at the drive thru.

Anyway I’m off to send people to clean toilets apparently so enjoy this lovely day mate.
Might be wrong , but I don't think we have seen anything that resembles a business plan or even what the end goal would look like other than trying to grow membership out of Ballarat.
I'm with MD , not convinced this is a solid decision .
My guess is we have been asked to " kick it off " and let's see where it takes us.
Talking as far out as 2048 in this debate leaves me speechless .
 
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