Western Bulldogs want in on possible future Good Friday AFL game

[Shagzz]

In any case it's not about the children's hospital.

It kinda is. The reason for it not being played sooner is because they don't want it to take away from the good Friday appeal which is raising money for a children's hospital.

 

[Freshwater]

I know the 'good Friday appeal' raises money for the kids hospital for the last 60 years. But Good Friday is not reveared because of that appeal, it's reveared because it's the most significant day on the Christian calendar. And if we want to play the footy on this sacred day we must pay it due respect. Let's not confuse the significance of the day with the hospital appeal. We don't stop the footy because of the appeal.

 

[Shagzz]

And how would we pay it respect?
Not serve meat pies? I can't see them holding some form of religious service before the game.

 

[Doggy Dan]

I know the 'good Friday appeal' raises money for the kids hospital for the last 60 years. But Good Friday is not reveared because of that appeal, it's reveared because it's the most significant day on the Christian calendar. And if we want to play the footy on this sacred day we must pay it due respect. Let's not confuse the significance of the day with the hospital appeal. We don't stop the footy because of the appeal.

Maybe Melbourne should get the game as long as they promise to play Christian Salem and Christian Petracca?

 

[Shagzz]

Maybe Melbourne should get the game as long as they promise to play Christian Salem and Christian Petracca?

I'd love to see the demons on good Friday TV promo

 

[Freshwater]

And how would we pay it respect?
Not serve meat pies? I can't see them holding some form of religious service before the game.

And how would we pay it respect?
Not serve meat pies? I can't see them holding some form of religious service before the game.

The AFL for over 100 years have felt the day was too significant to even play a game! Now they're thinking about it, and might play one, but they can't go from not playing, to playing, and not mention why they didn't play in the first place.
A lot of people don't believe in war but we still honour the ANZACs. Many don't believe in Christ (and I couldn't care less whether they do) but it's still part of our tradition and is the reason why we haven't been playing. Nothing to do with the hospital appeal. In fact a game could make more money for the hospital. I hope we get the game , make money for the hospital, remember the traditions our culture was built on and thrash whoever dares to play against us.

 

[Shagzz]

How do you not believe in war?

 

[Shagzz]

You didn't answer my question. What do you think they should do?

 

[mambavino]

Sports should be secular, religious considerations shouldn't play any part in any decisions the AFL make. Up until this point the AFL appears to have disagreed.

But just because the AFL has been wrong for the last 100+ years, doesn't mean they should continue to make the same error.

 

[immortalmike]

How do you not believe in war?

I'm sure he means people who are anti war.

Sports should be secular, religious considerations shouldn't play any part in any decisions the AFL make. Up until this point the AFL appears to have disagreed.

But just because the AFL has been wrong for the last 100+ years, doesn't mean they should continue to make the same error.

Agree. We are a secular country, lets keep it that way.

 

[Freshwater]

Everything is part of something. There is no line that says religion is over here and the rest of life is over there. Footy is religious. They impart and infuse on each and always have. Christianity gave us science! Go figure? The ANZAC myth is just like the Christian myth it's part of what made us,you can't bury history because that's not the flavour of the month in this age. Good Friday is Good Friday because of some huge historic significance. Bury it if you wish, we will be poorer because of that.
A minutes silence would do and maybe low key build up would be appropriate.

 

[timtamWB]

Everything is part of something. There is no line that says religion is over here and the rest of life is over there. Footy is religious. They impart and infuse on each and always have. Christianity gave us science! Go figure? The ANZAC myth is just like the Christian myth it's part of what made us,you can't bury history because that's not the flavour of the month in this age. Good Friday is Good Friday because of some huge historic significance. Bury it if you wish, we will be poorer because of that.
A minutes silence would do and maybe low key build up would be appropriate.

Did you just say the ANZAC myth?

I've never been one to really celebrate Anzac day, or the fallen soldiers, but it's not a myth. Everyone knows at least the basics of what happened there, with many having relatives that died on that day.

ANZAC is completely different to good Friday. One is not part of everyone's culture while the other is intrinsically linked to our nation.

Don't compare it to good Friday. Don't even try. Because the instant you do, you lose all credibility.

 

[Shagzz]

Everything is part of something. There is no line that says religion is over here and the rest of life is over there. Footy is religious. They impart and infuse on each and always have. Christianity gave us science! Go figure? The ANZAC myth is just like the Christian myth it's part of what made us,you can't bury history because that's not the flavour of the month in this age. Good Friday is Good Friday because of some huge historic significance. Bury it if you wish, we will be poorer because of that.
A minutes silence would do and maybe low key build up would be appropriate.

Wtf is an Anzac myth?

 

[immortalmike]

Everything is part of something. There is no line that says religion is over here and the rest of life is over there. Footy is religious. They impart and infuse on each and always have. Christianity gave us science! Go figure? The ANZAC myth is just like the Christian myth it's part of what made us,you can't bury history because that's not the flavour of the month in this age. Good Friday is Good Friday because of some huge historic significance. Bury it if you wish, we will be poorer because of that.
A minutes silence would do and maybe low key build up would be appropriate.

I don't want to offend you or anyone else who is Christian on this board. Mostly because I like most people here but also because I like to think I've grown out of being the anti-theist type atheist.
But to compare the ANZACs with all the mythology surrounding them to Christianity which is basically only mythology is a little much.
The big difference is the ANZACs definitely existed, some are still alive and most have living family. They are real. As are soldiers. I am as anti-war a person as you are likely to meet but at the end of the day these people fought and died and while I don't always respect their reasons I respect their sacrifice.

Jesus' existence is debatable to be generous, his deeds are historically spurious and there are no real contemporary biographers of his life. He was a great idea and many moral lessons can be gleaned from his teachings. But do we really need to advocate a moment's silence for a man that many don't even agree existed?

Where does it end? Should we not serve hotdogs out of respect for Ramadan? Not allow lights during the sabbath?

These are cultural traditions and the fact that many in society can and do identify with them is fantastic. Love the diversity. And if you want to go to the footy on Easter Sunday and eat chocolate eggs or on Good Friday and hold your own moments silence have at it. Just don't impinge on the freedom of others to not have to give a *.

Now if the AFL want to do something to honour the day, while I disagree and will probably argue against it I'll be respectful and abide by it. But for now it should be religion neutral like Easter Sunday games or games that fall on Passover etc.

As an aside to claim Christianity gave rise to science is standing on some shaky ground. Sure much of modern science was informed by Christian thinkers but science was the domain of the ancient greeks long before Jesus was a gleam in Gabriel's eye.

 

[Freshwater]

Of course ANZAC is both real and a myth. A myth that I buy into too. All nations need mythological beginnings, ours (as Aussies) begins with Galipoli. But don't think that saved us or any of that rot. Kakodo, a generation later DID save us,but not Galipoli. But our ancient roots, that are the still the basis of our laws and customs go right back. And I couldn't be more secular, but come from ideals much more deeper and important than ANZAC day! The diggers we bloody fighting for 'God King and Country!' And Good Friday is as deep,and important a day as any, and thats why we haven't had footy still to this day on that day. But if you are only interested in what you can remember?

 

[Freshwater]

t

I don't want to offend you or anyone else who is Christian on this board. Mostly because I like most people here but also because I like to think I've grown out of being the anti-theist type atheist.
But to compare the ANZACs with all the mythology surrounding them to Christianity which is basically only mythology is a little much.
The big difference is the ANZACs definitely existed, some are still alive and most have living family. They are real. As are soldiers. I am as anti-war a person as you are likely to meet but at the end of the day these people fought and died and while I don't always respect their reasons I respect their sacrifice.

Jesus' existence is debatable to be generous, his deeds are historically spurious and there are no real contemporary biographers of his life. He was a great idea and many moral lessons can be gleaned from his teachings. But do we really need to advocate a moment's silence for a man that many don't even agree existed?

Where does it end? Should we not serve hotdogs out of respect for Ramadan? Not allow lights during the sabbath?

These are cultural traditions and the fact that many in society can and do identify with them is fantastic. Love the diversity. And if you want to go to the footy on Easter Sunday and eat chocolate eggs or on Good Friday and hold your own moments silence have at it. Just don't impinge on the freedom of others to not have to give a ****.

Now if the AFL want to do something to honour the day, while I disagree and will probably argue against it I'll be respectful and abide by it. But for now it should be religion neutral like Easter Sunday games or games that fall on Passover etc.

As an aside to claim Christianity gave rise to science is standing on some shaky ground. Sure much of modern science was informed by Christian thinkers but science was the domain of the ancient greeks long before Jesus was a gleam in Gabriel's eye.

Christianity fully informed modern science. It was well and truly dead after the Greeks in the dark ages.

 

[immortalmike]

Of course ANZAC is both real and a myth. A myth that I buy into too. All nations need mythological beginnings, ours (as Aussies) begins with Galipoli. But don't think that saved us or any of that rot. Kakodo, a generation later DID save us,but not Galipoli. But our ancient roots, that are the still the basis of our laws and customs go right back. And I couldn't be more secular, but come from ideals much more deeper and important than ANZAC day! The diggers we bloody fighting for 'God King and Country!' And Good Friday is as deep,and important a day as any, and thats why we haven't had footy still to this day on that day. But if you are only interested in what you can remember?

Good Friday is deep and important to some people. There's a whole lot of people who think it's some old bullshit.
That's why neutrality is the best path.

t
Christianity fully informed modern science. It was well and truly dead after the Greeks in the dark ages.

Christian thinkers may have but Christianity did not. Hitler was Catholic, but his catholicism had nothing to do with his deeds.

 

[Freshwater]

I am happy to be neutral. But bloody ANZAC round and dream time round is not neutral. People are rewriting history their own way with these rounds.

 

[immortalmike]

I am happy to be neutral. But bloody ANZAC round and dream time round is not neutral. People are rewriting history their own way with these rounds.

To be honest I'm not a fan of either myself but honouring people who served our country and promoting the diversity of AFL football is very different than being seen to prefer one religious tradition over any other.
Unless you want a muslim, buddhist, Jewish, pastafarian, etc round?

 

[dogwatch]

I'm an atheist too but I have some sympathy for Freshwater's argument. I'm not suggesting we give a benediction before the match or throw holy water on the Sherrin but to avoid playing on Good Friday for over a century and then suddenly start playing footy without even touching the hat to the cultural aspects of Good Friday seems a bit perverse. It might be enough simply to have a late start to allow all those in the community who DO celebrate Good Friday in various ways to get that over with before they traipse off to their second-favourite religion at the G.
Good discussion anyway.

As for the ANZAC myth, well yes there IS a certain amount of myth-making going on there, even though we have a fair idea what happened. The sacrifice of those who fought (and especially those who didn't return, or returned damaged) should never be forgotten, but there are some sections of the community that continue to use the ANZAC story for their own political or commercial purposes. I have no respect for those people.

And the relationship between Christianity and science? Not a strong one compared to the contribution of the Arab (Muslim) world that kept alight the flame of scientific and intellectual enquiry and education during the Dark Ages. I also seem to recall that some of the leading scientists fell out so badly with the church that they were tried for heresy for saying things like "errr guys, I think the earth may not be flat, and may not be the centre of the universe after all". Galileo certainly had a rough time of it.

 

[Freshwater]

To be honest I'm not a fan of either myself but honouring people who served our country and promoting the diversity of AFL football is very different than being seen to prefer one religious tradition over any other.
Unless you want a muslim, buddhist, Jewish, pastafarian, etc round?

It's not actually preferring one Religion over the other. It's just honouring our culture and history. If all these new cultures want to come to Australia I'm all for it, but we don't water down our past. We celebrate Christmas Day and don't play cricket on that day because it is our culture. The Hindus and Jews etc who come here get that better than some of us. This great nation of ours didn't happen by chance, there is a HISTORY behind all things. All are welcome, but we must never forget.

 

[immortalmike]

I'm an atheist too but I have some sympathy for Freshwater's argument. I'm not suggesting we give a benediction before the match or throw holy water on the Sherrin but to avoid playing on Good Friday for over a century and then suddenly start playing footy without even touching the hat to the cultural aspects of Good Friday seems a bit perverse. It might be enough simply to have a late start to allow all those in the community who DO celebrate Good Friday in various ways to get that over with before they traipse off to their second-favourite religion at the G.
Good discussion anyway.

As for the ANZAC myth, well yes there IS a certain amount of myth-making going on there, even though we have a fair idea what happened. The sacrifice of those who fought (and especially those who didn't return, or returned damaged) should never be forgotten, but there are some sections of the community that continue to use the ANZAC story for their own political or commercial purposes. I have no respect for those people.

And the relationship between Christianity and science? Not a strong one compared to the contribution of the Arab (Muslim) world that kept alight the flame of scientific and intellectual enquiry and education during the Dark Ages. I also seem to recall that some of the leading scientists fell out so badly with the church that they were tried for heresy for saying things like "errr guys, I think the earth may not be flat, and may not be the centre of the universe after all". Galileo certainly had a rough time of it.

Yeah, sensitivity is fine. Would absolutely be on board for a late start.

Agree on the politicising of the Anzacs and how much of a disgrace it is.

I don't really think that there's a direct link between religion and science, insofar as there's far more a link between natural human curiosity and scientific inquiry. Wherever there are humans there will be a person saying "hey guys I wonder how that works ".
On Galileo, he was right but he also was being a fair dick about it.

 

[immortalmike]

It's not actually preferring one Religion over the other. It's just honouring our culture and history. If all these new cultures want to come to Australia I'm all for it, but we don't water down our past. We celebrate Christmas Day and don't play cricket on that day because it is our culture. The Hindus and Jews etc who come here get that better than some of us. This great nation of ours didn't happen by chance, there is a HISTORY behind all things. All are welcome, but we must never forget.

You may think of it that way, others may not. Personally I don't buy the history or cultural argument in favour of a religious tradition. Belief is at the centre of Good Friday, there is very little cultural tradition to it apart from not eating meat and everything being closed. This is just as much a freedom of religion issue in as much as we have a right to freedom from religion also.

In saying that, you've made a good case and I definitely can see where you're coming from. We probably will never convince each other but don't let that make you think I don't respect your opinion.

 

[fargy]

For me if footy was played on Good Friday it would be about the RCH appeal. Understand that for others there would be different meanings but the RCH appeal holds dear to me and I would love for Good Friday footy to help boost the amount of money they receive on the day.

 

[dogwatch]

For me if footy was played on Good Friday it would be about the RCH appeal. Understand that for others there would be different meanings but the RCH appeal holds dear to me and I would love for Good Friday footy to help boost the amount of money they receive on the day.

Having lived many years in Melbourne I understand your perspective but you have to remember that the RCH Appeal means almost nothing to those outside the Vic state borders. AFL is now a national game so in framing a fixture we have to think from the national perspective as well as the local.

SO ... If the RCH Appeal is so sacrosanct, perhaps the Good Friday match should always be played in Sydney or Adelaide or Perth?


...naah, I didn't think so either!