Western Force axed, time for WA3

[Garlic muncher]

Perhaps the ARU are hoping everyone forgets about this, if we don't say anything it didn't happen.

The clubs sue the ARU if they are cut, SANZAR get very angry if nothing happens, perhaps they seek some sort of recompense.

Lose/lose

 

[SgtSchulz]

North Perth Kangaroos

 

[Freomaniac]

Perhaps the ARU are hoping everyone forgets about this, if we don't say anything it didn't happen.

The clubs sue the ARU if they are cut, SANZAR get very angry if nothing happens, perhaps they seek some sort of recompense.

Lose/lose

I have said it before and I will say it again. Those 5 Rugby Union clubs should break away and form their own league. The ARU rights are actually worth more then the A-league /Socceroos rights. Whats holding the ARU back to break away and form a 6 or 8 team Australian Rugby Union comp?

 

[Garlic muncher]

I have said it before and I will say it again. Those 5 Rugby Union clubs should break away and form their own league. The ARU rights are actually worth more then the A-league /Socceroos rights. Whats holding the ARU back to break away and form a 6 or 8 team Australian Rugby Union comp?

Lack of interest, plenty of people who follow it, follow it because they are exPat kiwis, saffas etc.

There is an established club comp in Sydney and Brisbane that probably has more popular clubs than either the rebels or force if then are not playing O/S teams

 

[madmug]

I have said it before and I will say it again. Those 5 Rugby Union clubs should break away and form their own league. The ARU rights are actually worth more then the A-league /Socceroos rights. Whats holding the ARU back to break away and form a 6 or 8 team Australian Rugby Union comp?

Perth, Melbourne, ACT, North Sydney, South Sydney, Brisbane.

 

[Freomaniac]

Perth, Melbourne, ACT, North Sydney, South Sydney, Brisbane.

Actually.... Take out North Sydney and South Sydney and bring in a Western Sydney and Gold coast side instead.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Actually.... Take out North Sydney and South Sydney and bring in a Western Sydney and Gold coast side instead.

RU is about dead in the Western Suburbs of Sydney.

GC is not that far behind

 

[robbieando]

I have said it before and I will say it again. Those 5 Rugby Union clubs should break away and form their own league. The ARU rights are actually worth more then the A-league /Socceroos rights. Whats holding the ARU back to break away and form a 6 or 8 team Australian Rugby Union comp?

Money (ARU has none) and that it would cause a massive player exodus to Japan and Europe.

The Super Rugby Salary Cap is currently $5,000,000 per year with top ups from the ARU for players playing for the Wallabies providing another $5,000,000 split unequally between the 5 clubs (just on $30,000,000 a year). 3 extra teams going it alone means the cap shrinks and players move abroad (which is already happening)

The French Top 14 has a Salary Cap of $14 million and the English Premiership has a Salary Cap of $11.5 million. Super Rugby can't dream of matching them and Australian going it alone would be easy pickings.

Keep in mind most of the latest TV Rights deal increase for Super Rugby was from a bidding war from Sky and BT in the UK and BeIN and Canal in France rather than an increase coming SANZAAR markets. Every indication is that an Australian only competition would hold little interest to the European networks (weak competition and poor timeslot) and as well as Australian networks not interested in paying more for an weaker product meaning what cap there current is would be decreased further if Australia did go it alone. They just don't have the money or the player pool to do it

 

[BringBackTorps]

Money (ARU has none) and that it would cause a massive player exodus to Japan and Europe.

The Super Rugby Salary Cap is currently $5,000,000 per year with top ups from the ARU for players playing for the Wallabies providing another $5,000,000 split unequally between the 5 clubs (just on $30,000,000 a year). 3 extra teams going it alone means the cap shrinks and players move abroad (which is already happening)

The French Top 14 has a Salary Cap of $14 million and the English Premiership has a Salary Cap of $11.5 million. Super Rugby can't dream of matching them and Australian going it alone would be easy pickings.

Keep in mind most of the latest TV Rights deal increase for Super Rugby was from a bidding war from Sky and BT in the UK and BeIN and Canal in France rather than an increase coming SANZAAR markets. Every indication is that an Australian only competition would hold little interest to the European networks (weak competition and poor timeslot) and as well as Australian networks not interested in paying more for an weaker product meaning what cap there current is would be decreased further if Australia did go it alone. They just don't have the money or the player pool to do it

Prescient summary.
...but Super Rugby crowds are plummeting in Aust., SA, & NZ -so the comp. is facing huge financial problems just from loss of crowd revenues. And the payTV operators will likely negotiate DOWN in 2017 the CURRENT rights (ie before they expire in 2020) due to ratings also significantly declining.

Thus the Super Rugby $ reduction may make this comp. unviable - & therefore greatly improve chances & financial viability of an alternative, replacement elite Aust. domestic comp.

Perhaps, after 10-15 years of an elite domestic 6 team Aust. RU comp. (much easier & cheaper to run, ALL games prime time, including a West Syd. team, more tribal), its crowds & ratings would rise -so RU players could be well paid (they would prefer to live in Aust.)
One would assume some wealthy RU benefactors would provide financial backing for a well run elite domestic comp (like SA Currie Cup, NZ Provincial Champ.)

Assuming you are from Sydney, what is your view on the reason for the long term decline in regd. contact nos.(jnr. & adult male) in RU in Syd.?
Ditto, regd. contact RL nos. in Syd.?

Decline irreversible?

 

[Freomaniac]

Prescient summary.
...but Super Rugby crowds are plummeting in Aust., SA, & NZ -so the comp. is facing huge financial problems just from loss of crowd revenues. And the payTV operators will likely negotiate DOWN in 2017 the CURRENT rights (ie before they expire in 2020) due to ratings also significantly declining.

Thus the Super Rugby $ reduction may make this comp. unviable - & therefore greatly improve chances & financial viability of an alternative, replacement elite Aust. domestic comp.

Perhaps, after 10-15 years of an elite domestic 6 team Aust. RU comp. (much easier & cheaper to run, ALL games prime time, including a West Syd. team, more tribal), its crowds & ratings would rise -so RU players could be well paid (they would prefer to live in Aust.)
One would assume some wealthy RU benefactors would provide financial backing for a well run elite domestic comp (like SA Currie Cup, NZ Provincial Champ.)

Assuming you are from Sydney, what is your view on the reason for the long term decline in regd. contact nos.(jnr. & adult male) in RU in Syd.?
Ditto, regd. contact RL nos. in Syd.?

Decline irreversible?

The decline isn't irreversible. ARU claims they are bigger than Australian Soccer. The Problem is, ARU make the FFA look like a well run Sporting organisation.

For all the complaints the Fourfourtwo inhabitants bitch and moan about, At least the FFA has got some form of stability with their domestic league being a 10 team comp. ARU are too scared to break away and Form a new Australian rugby union comp because they are afraid to lose their overseas money.

My opinion in the decline in Registered numbers is the ARU barely spend any money on Grass roots rugby. They only care about Boosting the Salary cap for their Aussie teams rather than using some of that money for Grass roots and Advertising to grow the game.

I have said many times.... ARU needs to negotiate getting a super rugby game on FTA like 7,9 or 10. They finally did but its in the morning on a sunday.

 

[robbieando]

Prescient summary.
...but Super Rugby crowds are plummeting in Aust., SA, & NZ -so the comp. is facing huge financial problems just from loss of crowd revenues. And the payTV operators will likely negotiate DOWN in 2017 the CURRENT rights (ie before they expire in 2020) due to ratings also significantly declining.

Crowds are down this year because of the contraction talk in Australia and South Africa. The ARU are cutting a club to still provide the support they currently do to the remaining 4 Super Rugby clubs but also increase their grassroots investments (thats what they say at least, I doubt grassroots will see any extra money). As for your suggestion of a likely negotiation down of the current rights deal before it expires in 2020 SANZAAR have already ruled that out and before cutting teams got the support of the Rights holders to do so.

Thus the Super Rugby $ reduction may make this comp. unviable - & therefore greatly improve chances & financial viability of an alternative, replacement elite Aust. domestic comp.

Perhaps, after 10-15 years of an elite domestic 6 team Aust. RU comp. (much easier & cheaper to run, ALL games prime time, including a West Syd. team, more tribal), its crowds & ratings would rise -so RU players could be well paid (they would prefer to live in Aust.)
One would assume some wealthy RU benefactors would provide financial backing for a well run elite domestic comp (like SA Currie Cup, NZ Provincial Champ.)

Australia already has an 8 team domestic competition that is nationwide based upon the NPC and the Currie Cup to as a bridge between Club Rugby and Super Rugby. Breaking away from Super Rugby would be pointless as the Europeans would follow South Africa (due to their timezone) and New Zealand (due to their success and quality) so the money SANZAAR gets for Super Rugby would disappear far greater if Australia went it alone than people think.

As for players well you would think they would prefer to live in Australia but sadly there are over 140 Australian players in the Top 14 in France and the England Premiership combined as it stands (South Africa has over 400) and that doesn't even cover player in lower divisions and places like Japan. As I pointed out already the salary caps available at the moment are playing a big role in that and an Australian competition would make it even worse as the current Super Rugby Cap would have to be cut to make it viable to begin with (more teams less money from the ARU for salary and the ARU will get less money going it alone), so you'll lose the players of profile (ie. Wallabies) right off the bat to build the competition.

The problem for Super Rugby has not been the competition expanding and spreading the talent pool too thin but by players moving to Europe and Japan and thus hollowing out the depth available. Started off slow but its got worse since 2013 once Wallabies level players started going over which meant less and less marketable players available but also need to match what was on offer from Europe, which was met by part time deals where some players were allowed to take a year off and play in Japan and then come back to Super Rugby in time for Wallabies commitments. Just not sustainable short or long term.

By having a small pool of funds available to pay your players, while at the same time there is a bigger pool of funds available elsewhere it will hollow out any competition be it Super Rugby or an ARU run League. Heck eventually the NRL will become a factor and players will start heading there like they did before Union went professional.

Assuming you are from Sydney, what is your view on the reason for the long term decline in regd. contact nos.(jnr. & adult male) in RU in Syd.?
Ditto, regd. contact RL nos. in Syd.?

Decline irreversible?

Not from NSW, so I don't act like I pretend to know

 

[Garlic muncher]

Apparently the fixtures for next year need to be finalised by the 10 May, so i imagine we will know shortly what will happen.

Everyone has agree to the cutting of 3 teams.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Actually reading between the lines i don't think anyone will be chopped ATM.

It will just revert to normal transmission.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Well, what happening ?

Yawn.

I am betting on a status quo now.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Well, what happening ?

Yawn.

I am betting on a status quo now.

That would require sanzar agreement

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Well, what happening ?

Yawn.

I am betting on a status quo now.

Actually update http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...s/news-story/e0f04d0263a0dd3a00876e6bcd0686ef

Players forcing a special gm to bring this to a head

 

[Fitzcray]

WA 3, Sydney 3 and NZ is what the AFL should be striving for in the next 10 years.

20 team competition would be perfect with the New Zealand international flavour.

We need to build on the great progress being made in Sydney and New Zealand.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

WA 3, Sydney 3 and NZ is what the AFL should be striving for in the next 10 years.

20 team competition would be perfect with the New Zealand international flavour.

We need to build on the great progress being made in Sydney and New Zealand.

Nz cant sustain 1 game a year, and the timezone sucks for perth tv

 

[Garlic muncher]

Nz cant sustain 1 game a year, and the timezone sucks for perth tv

NZ can sustain one game a year in Auckland like China can, expats, Aussie tourist footy fans and the locals interested.

China is more business but NZ would be more about exporting the game.

Has been talk about a new or upgraded ground in Auckland but I don't know much about it.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

NZ can sustain one game a year in Auckland like China can, expats, Aussie tourist footy fans and the locals interested.

China is more business but NZ would be more about exporting the game.

Has been talk about a new or upgraded ground in Auckland but I don't know much about it.

Wellington was shut diwn because there were not enough tourists visiting for the game

 

[Garlic muncher]

Wellington was shut diwn because there were not enough tourists visiting for the game

From memory the first year was a success, the second wasn't, the teams and dates they picked were wrong.

At any rate Wellington gets bad crowds for everything apparently, so in the scheme of things the AFL crowd wasn't that bad.

 

[Kwality]

Prescient summary.
...but Super Rugby crowds are plummeting in Aust., SA, & NZ -so the comp. is facing huge financial problems just from loss of crowd revenues. And the payTV operators will likely negotiate DOWN in 2017 the CURRENT rights (ie before they expire in 2020) due to ratings also significantly declining.

Thus the Super Rugby $ reduction may make this comp. unviable - & therefore greatly improve chances & financial viability of an alternative, replacement elite Aust. domestic comp.

Perhaps, after 10-15 years of an elite domestic 6 team Aust. RU comp. (much easier & cheaper to run, ALL games prime time, including a West Syd. team, more tribal), its crowds & ratings would rise -so RU players could be well paid (they would prefer to live in Aust.)
One would assume some wealthy RU benefactors would provide financial backing for a well run elite domestic comp (like SA Currie Cup, NZ Provincial Champ.)

Assuming you are from Sydney, what is your view on the reason for the long term decline in regd. contact nos.(jnr. & adult male) in RU in Syd.?
Ditto, regd. contact RL nos. in Syd.?

Decline irreversible?

Bill Pulver is a handbrake on progress.

 

[Kwality]

From memory the first year was a success, the second wasn't, the teams and dates they picked were wrong.

At any rate Wellington gets bad crowds for everything apparently, so in the scheme of things the AFL crowd wasn't that bad.

the money dried up aka nil interest & it wasn't just Wellington that declined.

 

[Kwality]

I have said it before and I will say it again. Those 5 Rugby Union clubs should break away and form their own league. The ARU rights are actually worth more then the A-league /Socceroos rights. Whats holding the ARU back to break away and form a 6 or 8 team Australian Rugby Union comp?

& on it goes:
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...ut-on-player-uncertainty-20170521-gw9kai.html

Fairfax Media rugby reporter Tom Decent spoke to a player from one of the clubs affected by the saga – either the Western Force or Melbourne Rebels – on the condition of anonymity, who has labelled the ARU "selfish" and believes they are "playing with our livelihoods".
"Everyone is fed up. It's so erratic and selfish from the ARU. It is a disgrace and gravely irresponsible. They're inept.
"No one from the ARU has addressed players.

Any cricketer, AFL , NRL footballer aware of whats going on here would be very pro union - Buddy talking to his brother in law.

 

[The_Wookie]

take it to the Rugby Union board please. Im sure there is adequate discussion on this there.