Western Magpies

Discussion in 'Queensland Footy' started by brizrider, Apr 8, 2017.

  1. brizrider

    brizrider Club Legend

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    Was wondering how this club is travelling? On paper results they seem to be ok with a QAFL finals finish last year. The junior club doesn't seem to be doing so great though with Wests Juniors probably becoming the successful club in the western suburbs of Brisbane the last few years in terms of div 1 teams and multiple junior teams in each age group. Other junior clubs in the area don't really view the Magpies as a representative club to feed their players to for various reasons. The demographics of the area are changing rapidly and I know the field and surface have been problematic and costly in recent years. Any real trouble in store for this club and if so, what's the future of QAFL footy in the western suburbs?
     

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  2. Thommo 42

    Thommo 42 Norm Smith Medallist

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    Finished Top 3 in QAFL last 3 years.

    Won multiple youth Div 1 premierships including undefeated u/17 Div 1 flag only 18 months ago.

    Best bit is that the QAFL squad is about 70% genuine Sherwood (or immediately local) Juniors, not many other clubs could say the same.

    300+ registered juniors/youth players last few years.

    Future of QAFL in the west is strong, especially for kids from the West as they won't just throw $ at blokes from afar to get them into the QAFL side building a team of mercenaries

    Not really sure what you're getting at?
     
  3. Doddsy75

    Doddsy75 Team Captain

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    what does this mean and what are the reasons?

    We have the same attitude problem in the east, with people saying that good juniors shouldn't 'just go to Morningside' because they are the local QAFL club.

    Blocker has made similar arguments in the past, that clubs should try and hold onto the best kids and I don't understand it.

    If you're a Kenmore/Moorooka/Wests/Jindalee/Yeronga etc etc I would have thought the best players you have naturally move to the Magpies to further their footy, or they bypass them straight to the NEAFL.

    Just as I would have thought the same thing happens in and around any other QAFL club. Are we really looking after the best interests of young players if they aren't making that natural progression?
     
  4. nugget_12

    nugget_12 Club Legend

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    Coming from Vic it's a strange concept to me to just hand your young guns over to another side.
    Purely because we have an actual talent program with the TAC cup competition.
    With the TAC Cup you still have a home team that you play for when not selected or a bye in the comp is on and that's what creates strong country/metro competitions.

    Up here it just seems that the best way is to hand them to a qafl club instead of trying to re-configure the Colts comp and allow the clubs to hang onto them and build their club up.

    It seems as though AFLQ has no interest in building strong local comps and if your not a Qafl or Neafl club it's not worth putting the money into.

    From an outsider looking in it's why it seems that there is clubs each year folding and merging or re-naming or something else.

    The amount of times I've heard such and such club used to be this club and played out of that place is crazy.
     
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  5. Doddsy75

    Doddsy75 Team Captain

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    It's different up here because the TAC Cup is an underage competition, whereas short of the 2 academies - our talent pathways involve playing senior footy, often from as young as 16 (much like in SA or WA for example)

    Slightly confusing the matter even further is that we have 2 levels of elite competition with the NEAFL and the QAFL, and the NEAFL hasn't really got a true identity as yet. It's a clear talent pathway for youth, but also a roadblock to development of the game and sustainability of clubs.

    So ignoring what happens in Victoria with the underage TAC Cup, look at SA and WA and how they operate. If a kid is a gun 15 year old playing for a 'non SANFL or WAFL club' - then their natural progression to the draft and to their best chance to develop into the best player they can be is to go to a Tier 1 SANFL club, instead of playing in the lower leagues.

    eg. guys like Bryce Gibbs, Jesse Hogan, James Aish, Nic Nat, Jaeger O'Meara etc etc all played senior footy from a young age at their respective WAFL/SANFL clubs. In most cases, they weren't the same clubs they played U/12 and U/14's with, they moved to the Tier 1 clubs as they developed as players.

    The same thing should be happening in QLD. A kid living in Brackenridge for example should play juniors at somewhere like Redcliffe as an example, then if they show some ability - perhaps graduate to Sandgate to play some QAFL footy, and then off to Aspley in the NEAFL if their ability warrants it, before getting drafted. The more likely pathway is straight to the Lions academy to play NEAFL, but both paths shouldn't be ignored.

    Morningside and Western Magpies for example have 10+ kids between them at the Lions NEAFL side, and those clubs encourage them to go to better their footy and improve their chances of moving to higher honours. Yet the next level down, the same isn't happening. The QAFL clubs lose quality kids to NEAFL, but aren't replenished by the QFA clubs the way they probably should be.
     
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  6. nugget_12

    nugget_12 Club Legend

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    Great points you make Doddsy just to touch on a couple though, the WAFL actually have a designated Colts Program that similar to the TAC cup. The only difference is that they are aligned to the senior competition so you often see gun kids playing Seniors but are actually through the WAFL Colts program.
    They still have local U/18 comps around the state that the kids who miss out on selection go back too just like the TAC.

    In the TAC each club has a VFL zone so some kids play around 3 VFL games during their draft year.

    The SANFL talent pathway is similar to Queensland but they can afford to have that comp ran based around Adelaide because geographically it works and I've got a few mate who actually have played in this comp. most of the U/18's actually play reserves and the guns you mentioned obviously push up into the Seniors.

    AFLQ has enough of U/18 base from what I've seen to follow a path the same as TAC or WAFL Colts where you could have your Zones for players and they are assigned to a certain club all along the QLD coast up to Cairns and then still reconfigure the Colts comp to have a u/18 so they have clubs to go back too when the games aren't on.

    The current academy set up to me seems like it's only interested in a few certain areas and the guys coming from all the way up north at their own expense makes it hard to compete against guys locally who can attend sessions in direct contact with the academy coaches.

    I was up in CQ before coming to coach down here so it's abit of an interest for me to see the set up.
     
  7. Doddsy75

    Doddsy75 Team Captain

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    There is a clear directive from AFLQ to say that QAFL Colts is on a par to QFA Colts. Which I completely agree with, and it stops certain QAFL clubs recruiting colts to play at their clubs based on being in a 'QAFL System'.

    However, despite this directive - most QFA Clubs would play all their best colts in the Colts apart from the handful good enough for seniors. Whereas the QAFL clubs are more likely to scatter their most talented Colts between Reserves and Colts (again with the exception of the ones good enough for Seniors)

    I watched the Siders play Western Magpies on the weekend and the Colts match was a draw, the Reserves was a hiding and the score flattered the Magpies in the Seniors. Both clubs looked like they had plenty of Colts in all 3 matches, in fact the Magpies Reserves appeared to just be another Colts team with only a handful of older heads.

    I guess the difference with QLD compared to SA and WA is also that the standard of our top tier is so much lower, that the best kids are up to senior footy earlier than in the other states because you don't need to be a potential 1st/2nd round pick to be playing senior footy in QLD like you do in SA/WA.

    As a result, the Colts competition in QLD as a talent pathway is almost irrelevant as the best Colts are playing seniors in the QFA or QAFL or already in one of the academies. We barely put a Colts team together last year for this reason, because our best Colts had been drafted, played in the NEAFL or were in an academy and we had none left!

    I just look at the view that the QAFL clubs aren't considered representative teams for their regions as being shortsighted. If you're a gun 17 year old at Wynnum or Alex Hills, do you really want to be playing Div 3 footy for your home clubs - or do you want to be pursuing a senior spot at the nearest QAFL club (Morningside) ?

    I'm not just saying that for the Siders benefit, same goes for kids at Calamvale and Park Ridge who could go to Mt Gravatt and kids at Jindalee and Moorooka who could go to the Magpies and so on and so forth.

    In short, of course QAFL clubs are the representative teams for each of their regions. It doesn't work any other way
     
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  8. 2 Left feet

    2 Left feet Debutant

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    Whilst I agree with most of your points Doddsy, there really should be no reason for lads in the junior/youth system to be club hopping to further their football. If they are good enough they get the same opportunities through the representative system and lions academy no matter which club or division they play for on the weekends. Clubs pilfering promising youth level players on false promises of greater exposure is a bit of a blight on Brisbane footy. There are a few clubs guilty of it over the years, although not really driven by the 'club' as such, usually just the ego of individual coaches. At the end of the day, it shouldn't matter which division you play in youth footy, cream always rises to the top.

    Moving through into colts and upwards into seniors then by all means, individual players can choose to push themselves and play at the highest achievable level if this is how you want to play your footy, because there is genuine opportunity for 17 year olds to play QAFL footy at certain clubs if they are good enough. But funnelling all players towards QAFL clubs to cherry pick the best kids would create a vacuum at the bottom of the tree and some clubs would end up being relegated to Junior only clubs as they continually lose players to nearby higher div clubs as they mature.

    Not to mention that some players just don't want to go on to the high profile clubs and are happy to sit in their comfort zone having a kick their mates at their junior club. This is how a club culture is borne, that gun 17yo at Alex Hills could go on to become a 300 game stalwart of the club choosing to play for his beloved jersey over and above the highest level competition.

    Youth ambition will still see plenty coming to the QAFL clubs in the future, there is no need to legislate that it needs to happen.
     
  9. Doddsy75

    Doddsy75 Team Captain

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    completely agree. I know my own club is guilty of it at youth level and I'm not a fan of it at all.

    I'm talking purely from the ages of 17 and up, and possibly 16 if you're good enough.

    Look at Dayne Zorko for example. Played at Surfers for years, but then took a chance to play with Broadbeach in the then NEAFL/QAFL and was eventually drafted. Surfers and Broady in the same competition now, but at the time its a perfect example of an 18 year old kid leaving to a nearby club to further his footy and it paying off.

    Or then at the other end of the scale, you have Eric Hipwood from Kawana juniors via Caloundra Panthers getting drafted in the first round with our very own Ben Keays. Eric went to the Lions academy, then gave that away and played at Aspley (cooincidentally, the nearest available club to him from Caloundra) and it paid off. Had he stuck with Caloundra and played Div 1 footy - I doubt he ever would have been looked at despite his obvious talents.

    Given many 16 year olds are good enough to be playing QAFL footy, they should go as soon as they are ready - even if they are farmed out via the academy.
     
  10. Blocker Roach

    Blocker Roach All Australian

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    Doddsy, not quite sure that I said I don't want any of our kids playing higher level mate. What I did say is that sometimes they are better off playing seniors at a lower level to work on their deficiencies where they can get a kick.
     
  11. Doddsy75

    Doddsy75 Team Captain

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    Apologies Blocker, I may have misread. I also may not be 100% sure of your identity, but if you are who I think you are - then I've heard plenty of 2nd hand info (which in fairness, I should take with a grain of salt) that Park Ridge in particular are talking to good young kids (Colts age) and convincing them to come to Park Ridge on the back of some false hope of AFL scouts. I thought it was an absurd accusation, but then I heard this very thing yesterday from someone who I think played with you at Wests and has had involvement at academies and the like and isn't one to talk shit.

    Again, apologies in advance if its all scuttlebut - just what I heard.
     

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  12. smy1305

    smy1305 Premiership Player

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    B locker didn't you write that this was the case a little while ago?
     
  13. Blocker Roach

    Blocker Roach All Australian

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    I will always try and help any kid try and pursue a dream if they are good enough mate. Feel a lot of kids probably miss opportunities in QLD due to varying reasons.

    Lot of kids reach out to me and not me chasing. Not sure of you aware of drop off in kids 18+ that have come through Academy system but figures fairly alarming.

    What I do say if they want a chance to do preseason at AFL Club to make VFL list they need to play at my club so I can work with em for 12 months on their deficiencies to get them ready for the major culture shock when they hit an AFL preseason.

    Every kid that has done that with me has had that opportunity and all still currently in Melbourne playing better level of football than QAFL.

    Not sure where a kid goes now at 18 if he has been in an academy system since U12's (which I think is ridiculous) and misses out on Allies side so cannot showcase his talents at National level. His chances of being drafted very very limited.

    Not sure going back and playing QAFL is any greater benefit apart from what playing at higher level of footy. Last I knew not a lot of scouts watching that level of footy.

    So what I essentially trying to say is that if that QAFL club has good links down south then that kid will be sent down to Melbourne?

    Think most QAFL clubs since inception of NEAFL probably focus on being competitive at that level of competition. Not sure their focus is on individuals pursuing their dream.

    That's my opinion and others would disagree. But I will be interested to watch what happens with the kids in question.
     
  14. Blocker Roach

    Blocker Roach All Australian

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    Dodsey, just re-read your post. Why would you make a statement that it is false hope of me getting a scout to look at a kid at Park Ridge?

    When I got Nick Davidson to Essendon and Collingwood for 2 x preseasons. Tim Peck who incidentally played at both Sherwood and MtGravatt and they both did nothing for the kid and I got him to Footscray for preseason and then Jordy Grainger another preseason st Essendon.

    So not sure what you mean by your statement?
     
  15. Doddsy75

    Doddsy75 Team Captain

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    You're entitled to your opinion Blocker and good on you for having a crack.

    But if you really think its best for a kids footy development getting smashed by 10 goals most weeks in Div 2 at some suburban high school, then footy in QLD is in trouble. Especially when Div 2 in reality is more like Div 4 or 5 when you consider the levels above.

    Plenty of kids drafted from QAFL and NEAFL last time I looked - none from Div 2!

    Based on recent history, the best place for any kid in QLD who wants to get drafted is with Redland - and the shortest way to a spot on the Redland list is playing good footy with Morningside or the Magpies.

    Getting kids a go at pre-season is great, sounds like none of them got anywhere with it. Perhaps had they not had to spend a year going backwards in park footy, they would have had a better shot at it!
     
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  16. QAFL_Fan

    QAFL_Fan Club Legend

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    There are dozens of ex QAFL/NEAFL footballers from QLD backgrounds playing all over the country in VFL, SANFL, WAFL and even the O&M.

    The suggestion that the clubs don't do anything for these kids is laughable. Some of them are just chasing coin, others are trying to play the highest level possible to get a crack.
     
  17. Thommo 42

    Thommo 42 Norm Smith Medallist

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    Bit rough to suggest the club did nothing for Tim Peck.

    Played his juniors here, won a Div 1 u/18 flag and in that side won the b&f and players player award.

    Didn't play any senior footy that year, but that 2012 Magpie senior side won the flag pretty comprehensively and the reserves went 16-0 in the home and away season as well.

    Would have played seniors in 2013 if he hung around, but never been seen since. Can't help blokes like that - just disappeared. (Or perhaps was poached?)

    Few blokes from the same team are playing VFL, actually playing - not just doing a pre-season. He was the best player in that team, but followed a different path.
     
  18. QAFL_Fan

    QAFL_Fan Club Legend

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    Peck and Davidson both played NEAFL Footy, and both changed clubs too often.

    Peck played Juniors at Magpies, then went to Vultures to play U/16's and then back to Magpies for U/18's. He spat the dummy he didn't get a senior game for a dominant premiership side, so went back to Mt Gravatt.

    Davidson had a little more ability, but I know he spoke to multiple NEAFL (old system) and State League clubs and wanted guaranteed senior games. Ended up at the Vultures, but didn't play much senior footy.

    If you look at 2 other kids the same age who came through with both those guys - Clay Cameron and Wylie Buzza. Both boys were drafted, and cooincidentally - both boys didn't stunt their footy by going down 5 divisions to 'work on their deficiencies'.

    I'd argue that it terms of talent, from what I saw Cameron was a standout, but Davidson and Peck were better players than Buzza.
     
  19. Thommo 42

    Thommo 42 Norm Smith Medallist

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    Peck was entitled to leave the Magpies for Mt Gravatt in 2013. We were QAFL, they were NEAFL at the time.

    Our 2012 Premiership coach coached Mt Gravatt in 2013 and Peck wasn't the only bloke that went over.
     
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  20. Doddsy75

    Doddsy75 Team Captain

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    so how did Tim Peck wind up at Park Ridge?

    obviously someone got in his ear?

    I'm sure he is as close to his AFL dream as ever playing a mixture of seniors and ressies in the EDFL (which is not a higher standard than the QAFL) and now Div2 in the Northern Football League for Lalor, which is definitely no QAFL standard.

    blokes like Cam Cloke would not be regularly kicking 10+ in the QAFL
     
  21. QAFL_Fan

    QAFL_Fan Club Legend

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    Everyone is entitled to leave whenever they like from wherever they like you self absorbed toss!
     
  22. Lensen

    Lensen You've ruined the act, GOB

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    o_O
     
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  23. Blocker Roach

    Blocker Roach All Australian

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    Mate we are all entitled to our opinions mate. I will watch with interest as I said to see what options open up for these kids after their QAFL seasons.

    I am more mystified at the Academy systems and what they do for kids that have 4 or 5 years in them and probably were never hope of being drafted.

    Last time I looked not sure a teams result no matter where they play had huge implications on individuals development. Some would argue it may even be better. Had same chat with Dayne Zorko not long ago and even he confessed he may not be at same level as a player if he was at Hawthorn over recent years.

    Not going to argue as I am more than comfortable that I can do what I do with getting kids a go down south to at least know whether they were good enough than sit back and play 200 QAFL games and wonder if?

    Each to their own I suppose.
     
  24. Blocker Roach

    Blocker Roach All Australian

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    Not sure if you know full story with Timmy but he was tracking good during preseason at Bulldogs and did his shoulder during contact drills after they just started back after Xmas. Vibe was fairly positive that he probably would have snared a VFL contract until hurt.

    From there on he has had lot of personal stuff go on in his life and probably lost his passion after finishing year at EDFL after his rehab. He has since done his ACL and was just happy to play with some mates at Lalor.

    Probably didn't have best of luck but at least he had an opportunity.
     
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  25. Blocker Roach

    Blocker Roach All Australian

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    Would argue with you about QAFL being stronger then EDFL competition. Last time I looked most sides have 4-5 former AFL players in each team and heaps of good country footballers and ripping local talent.

    Sides like Aberfeldie and Keillor would toy with Labrador, Sherwood and Morningside.

    And for the record Keillor have had 10 kids drafted or rookie listed in last 3 -4 years from seniors and U18's. So you still playing in a competition where scouts continue to watch. So not to bad as a fallback option I would think.
     
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