We've gone backwards on the ladder every year since 2010 except 2018

[domin8tors]

As far as I'm aware, the ladder is king. Under Buckley we have finished lower than the previous year every year other than 2018.

No way to spin that, regardless of how hard you try.

No winning the flag is king the ladder just puts you in a position to win it. otherwise by your theory every club would sack their coach every 2 years.

 

[No SPIN]

As far as I'm aware, the ladder is king. Under Buckley we have finished lower than the previous year every year other than 2018.

No way to spin that, regardless of how hard you try.

Any sensible unbiased person would say 3 years of finals after missing the Top 8, 5 years in a row renders the pre 2017 years as irrelevant.
The only way to perpetuate an anti Buckley narrative is to dismiss the progress since 2017, by absurdly giving equal weighting to pre 2017.

And 2 Top 4 finishes in the last 3 years again further exposes the absurdity of the OP.

It’s so dumb - it’s like sacking a player despite excellent recent form, because of very poor early form. What sort of genius thinks that’s a good idea.

 

[sr36]

Any sensible unbiased person would say 3 years of finals after missing the Top 8, 5 years in a row renders the pre 2017 years as irrelevant.
The only way to perpetuate an anti Buckley narrative is to dismiss the progress since 2017, by absurdly giving equal weighting to pre 2017.

And 2 Top 4 finishes in the last 3 years again further exposes the absurdity of the OP.

It’s so dumb - it’s like sacking a player despite excellent recent form, because of very poor early form. What sort of genius thinks that’s a good idea.

The rise back up the ladder occurred without significant player changes when we saw a very different style of play after Bucks missed half of preseason and publicly took a backseat after the review. We've since seen a regression and appear to have moved back towards the pre-review, pre-back seat Bucks style of footy that was unsuccessful and painful to watch.

It's not unfair to speculate that perhaps the rise occurred due to less participation from Bucks and the subsequent decline has the hallmarks of Bucks's preferred brand of footy.

 

[No SPIN]

The rise back up the ladder occurred without significant player changes when we saw a very different style of play after Bucks missed half of preseason and publicly took a backseat after the review. We've since seen a regression and appear to have moved back towards the pre-review, pre-back seat Bucks style of footy that was unsuccessful and painful to watch.

It's not unfair to speculate that perhaps the rise occurred due to less participation from Bucks and the subsequent decline has the hallmarks of Bucks's preferred brand of footy.

Far more valid to speculate that Bucks turned the corner as a coach, and was reaping the benefits of the time he had put into, the maturing list he’d developed.

 

[Kappa]

Settle down mate - a bit of useless trivia offered by the OP deserves the derision its getting.
No NEUTRAL gives it any credence as an insightful commentary on Buckley as a Coach.

You cannot seriously be including yourself in the neutral category... Right??

 

[sr36]

Far more valid to speculate that Bucks turned the corner as a coach, and was reaping the benefits of the time he had put into, the maturing list he’d developed.

Post 2018, if we hadnt reverted to the slow ineffective brand of footy that was such a hallmark of his pre 2018 coaching, I'd agree with you.

The one year where we've looked a different more effective team is the one where Bucks missed much of pre season and took a back seat. I find that pretty hard to ignore.

 

[No SPIN]

You cannot seriously be including yourself in the neutral category... Right??

Isn’t the fact I didn’t reply in the first person a give away?

 

[Kappa]

Isn’t the fact I didn’t reply in the first person a give away?

Based on how you structured your sentence, absolutely not.

I'm glad you at least have the self awareness to recognize you are most biased poster in this board.

 

[TKiL]

Any sensible unbiased person would say 3 years of finals after missing the Top 8, 5 years in a row renders the pre 2017 years as irrelevant.
The only way to perpetuate an anti Buckley narrative is to dismiss the progress since 2017, by absurdly giving equal weighting to pre 2017.
And 2 Top 4 finishes in the last 3 years again further exposes the absurdity of the OP.
It’s so dumb - it’s like sacking a player despite excellent recent form, because of very poor early form. What sort of genius thinks that’s a good idea.

using "sensible, unbiased" in that tone is biased - omit those words - start your post with "3 years of finals....."
using language like "absurdly", "so dumb", "what sort of genius" seems like an attempt to pre-weight your posts in favour of your own position

 

[Doc1763]

No winning the flag is king the ladder just puts you in a position to win it. otherwise by your theory every club would sack their coach every 2 years.

Yes, good point. My theory is that we improved only once in 9 completed seasons.

 

[Doc1763]

Any sensible unbiased person would say 3 years of finals after missing the Top 8, 5 years in a row renders the pre 2017 years as irrelevant.
The only way to perpetuate an anti Buckley narrative is to dismiss the progress since 2017, by absurdly giving equal weighting to pre 2017.

And 2 Top 4 finishes in the last 3 years again further exposes the absurdity of the OP.

It’s so dumb - it’s like sacking a player despite excellent recent form, because of very poor early form. What sort of genius thinks that’s a good idea.

And we've gone backwards, ladder wise, each year since the outlier that was 2018.

 

[No SPIN]

Based on how you structured your sentence, absolutely not.

I'm glad you at least have the self awareness to recognize you are most biased poster in this board.

I would never accept the absurd arguments people roll out constantly about Buckley - particular as they would be embarrassed to try the same rubbish on other boards.

If choosing to ignore such tripe makes me biased - then I plead guilty as charged.

BTW - I have already said I don’t think Buckley survives if we don’t make Top 4.
And most people here see that as impossible so this time next year, I think there’ll be a lot of happy people here including you.

 

[No SPIN]

And we've gone backwards, ladder wise, each year since the outlier that was 2018.

Like I said - are you sacking a player today, who was a dud 5 years ago, despite dramatic improvement in the last 3 years?
Because thats the absurd logic you are applying to Buckley.

 

[Doc1763]

Like I said - are you sacking a player today, who was a dud 5 years ago, despite dramatic improvement in the last 3 years?
Because thats the absurd logic you are applying to Buckley.

We are not talking about a player, we are talking about our coach. The comparison is absurd.

 

[No SPIN]

using "sensible, unbiased" in that tone is biased - omit those words - start your post with "3 years of finals....."
using language like "absurdly", "so dumb", "what sort of genius" seems like an attempt to pre-weight your posts in favour of your own position

I’m actually trying to emphasize the absurdity of the contention, with strong condemnation which is what it deserves.

I would make the same argument for such biased analysis on any topic, but I’m frankly fed up with the rubbish people persist with about Buckley, hence my vehemence.

 

[No SPIN]

We are not talking about a player, we are talking about our coach. The comparison is absurd.

Makes no difference the logic is the logic. It’s all about outcomes, possessions etc for a player win rates etc for a Coach.
The logic is the logic mate.

 

[TKiL]

I’m actually trying to emphasize the absurdity of the contention, with strong condemnation which is what it deserves.

I would make the same argument for such biased analysis on any topic, but I’m frankly fed up with the rubbish people persist with about Buckley, hence my vehemence.

I'm fed up with Cwood delivering a flag once in a blue moon - last back to back flags over 80 years ago
Enough is enough Ed - less bullsh*t and more performance please -yours sincerely, one fed up supporter

 

[sr36]

Makes no difference the logic is the logic. It’s all about outcomes, possessions etc for a player win rates etc for a Coach.
The logic is the logic mate.

How does your logic deal with the idea that we've had one season that we showed significant improvement under Bucks and that one season was the one where he appears to have been least involved - missing preseason and heaps of talk of him being less involved. All the other seasons under Bucks have seen regression.

 

[No SPIN]

How does your logic deal with the idea that we've had one season that we showed significant improvement under Bucks and that one season was the one where he appears to have been least involved - missing preseason and heaps of talk of him being less involved. All the other seasons under Bucks have seen regression.

Please feel free to pick apart my logic about outcomes.

Your attempt to digress is pure speculation eg.

How do continually need to take credit away from Buckley when thing are going well, ( eg him being less involved) but lump him with all the blame, when you think things are going badly.

It’s hypocritical and illogical.
You can’t have it both ways.

 

[manicpie]

Please feel free to pick apart my logic about outcomes.

Your attempt to digress is pure speculation eg.

How do continually need to take credit away from Buckley when thing are going well, ( eg him being less involved) but lump him with all the blame, when you think things are going badly.

It’s hypocritical and illogical.
You can’t have it both ways.

The other question is who do we get to replace him. Unless there is a Clarkson or Hardwick available, I'm not sure it would make much difference. My biggest qualm about Bucks is why did he go so defensive when attacking was winning us games?. I don't care if he stays or goes but I do want a change to a more Richmond type game plan because what he dished up this year was hard to take

 

[sr36]

Please feel free to pick apart my logic about outcomes.

Your attempt to digress is pure speculation eg.

How do continually need to take credit away from Buckley when thing are going well, ( eg him being less involved) but lump him with all the blame, when you think things are going badly.

It’s hypocritical and illogical.
You can’t have it both ways.

It's neither hypocritical nor illogical. It's no secret that Bucks took a step back in 2018. With fewer coaches in 2020 its very likely that he took a step forward. In 2019, our style of play was more reminiscent of the style that we played before Bucks stepped back, so it's not illogical to say that it's likely that Bucks stepped forward in 2019. Bucks stepping forward has occurred at the same time as regression, going back to 2012. When Bucks stepped back, we had a season of massive improvement. That can't really be argued with. Perhaps it's a coincidence, but I'd certainly like to see how we'd go with Bucks stepping back again.

 

[35Daicos]

As far as I'm aware, the ladder is king. Under Buckley we have finished lower than the previous year every year other than 2018.

No way to spin that, regardless of how hard you try.

Since this (and the OP, I'd say) seems to refer only to final ladder/finishing position then this simply isn't correct. We finished 12th in 2015 and again in 2016. If people were only commenting on no. of wins/winning %/match ratio then that's a different discussion, though even then those figures have not been down for every year in the last 10 years (apart from that one year).

I know opposition supporters (and some of "ours") would have enjoyed pointing out that year after year we were dropping down the ladder under Buckley, but 2016 should have shut them up!!

 

[Doc1763]

Since this (and the OP, I'd say) seems to refer only to final ladder/finishing position then this simply isn't correct. We finished 12th in 2015 and again in 2016. If people were only commenting on no. of wins/winning %/match ratio then that's a different discussion, though even then those figures have not been down for every year in the last 10 years (apart from that one year).

I know opposition supporters (and some of "ours") would have enjoyed pointing out that year after year we were dropping down the ladder under Buckley, but 2016 should have shut them up!!

Yeah fantastic, we finished 12th again in 2016, with 1 less win than 2015. Brilliant result.

 

[35Daicos]

Yeah fantastic, we finished 12th again in 2016, with 1 less win than 2015. Brilliant result.

No, it wasn't a brilliant result, and we've had way too many disappointments over the last 10 years (and well beyond that), but when people are meant to be discussing facts (not just opinion) it's reasonable they get the facts right. If you want to make it about wins/losses that's a different story, but we have not slipped further down the ladder every year 9 years out of the last 10 (it's just 8)!

 

[Doc1763]

No, it wasn't a brilliant result, and we've had way too many disappointments over the last 10 years (and well beyond that), but when people are meant to be discussing facts (not just opinion) it's reasonable they get the facts right. If you want to make it about wins/losses that's a different story, but we have not slipped further down the ladder every year 9 years out of the last 10 (it's just 8)!

Yep, 1 year we stayed put, and one year we went up.

If mediocrity is your benchmark, Buckley's coaching career has exceeded expectations.