Review What’s Going Wrong?

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Barrybran

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Just having a look at HoneyBadger35's post from a different angle

2020: Hardwick - first term (11th season)
2019: Hardwick - first term (10th season)

2018: Simpson - first term (5th season)
2017: Hardwick - first term (8th season)
2016: Beveridge - first term (2nd season)
2015: Clarkson - first term (11th season)
2014: Clarkson- first term (10th season)
2013: Clarkson - first term (9th season)

2012: Longmire - first term (2nd season)
2011: Scott - first term (1st season)
2010: Malthouse - third term (had coached flags before) (27th season; 11th at club)
2009: Thompson - first term (10th season)
2008: Clarkson - first term (4th season)
2007: Thompson - first term (8th season)

2006: Worsfold - first term (5th season)
2005: Roos - first term (4th season)
2004: Williams - first term (6th season)
2003: Matthews - second term (had coached flags before) (15th season; 5th at club)
2002: Matthews - second term (had coached flags before) (14th season; 4th at club)
2001: Matthews - second term (had coached flags before) (13th season; 3rd at club)

2000: Sheedy - first term (20th season)
1999: Pagan - first term (7th season)
1998: Blight - second term (9th season; 2nd at club)

Brisbane played finals in the three of the preceding four seasons under John Northey. Hawthorn, Geelong and Richmond had some pretty ordinary form in the lead up to Clarkson, Thompson and Hardwick taking over at their respective clubs.

This is Simmo's 8th season.
 

Godfather32

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Just having a look at HoneyBadger35's post from a different angle

2020: Hardwick - first term (11th season)
2019: Hardwick - first term (10th season)

2018: Simpson - first term (5th season)
2017: Hardwick - first term (8th season)
2016: Beveridge - first term (2nd season)
2015: Clarkson - first term (11th season)
2014: Clarkson- first term (10th season)
2013: Clarkson - first term (9th season)

2012: Longmire - first term (2nd season)
2011: Scott - first term (1st season)
2010: Malthouse - third term (had coached flags before) (27th season; 11th at club)
2009: Thompson - first term (10th season)
2008: Clarkson - first term (4th season)
2007: Thompson - first term (8th season)

2006: Worsfold - first term (5th season)
2005: Roos - first term (4th season)
2004: Williams - first term (6th season)
2003: Matthews - second term (had coached flags before) (15th season; 5th at club)
2002: Matthews - second term (had coached flags before) (14th season; 4th at club)
2001: Matthews - second term (had coached flags before) (13th season; 3rd at club)

2000: Sheedy - first term (20th season)
1999: Pagan - first term (7th season)
1998: Blight - second term (9th season; 2nd at club)

Brisbane played finals in the three of the preceding four seasons under John Northey. Hawthorn, Geelong and Richmond had some pretty ordinary form in the lead up to Clarkson, Thompson and Hardwick taking over at their respective clubs.

This is Simmo's 8th season.
So what you're saying is we're going to win premierships in Simmo's 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 13th, 14th and 15th seasons?
 

Barrybran

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So what you're saying is we're going to win premierships in Simmo's 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 13th, 14th and 15th seasons?
Wouldn't that be nice?

It's hard to say where Simmo's development is at. I feel our style works really well for us but its far too predictable and when it is taken away from us we don't seem to have a plan B or plan C. It's really not good enough. We threw a golden opportunity away in 2019 by losing to Hawthorn and Richmond and we should have capitalised better on our run of form last season despite the hub. Yeah, 3-3 is a reasonable result so far given our injury list but I don't like how we've seemingly laid down in two of six games so far. If we can address these issues this season then perhaps all won't be wasted for a tilt in 2022-2024.
 

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JezMez

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And also basee off your logic, every single coach besides hardwick with teams who have made the top 8 the past few years should be sacked, because they have been trying and failing for more than simpson has... He is the second most recent premiership coach in the AFL system. Bit mad to say you need a fresh start from that. I guess everyone does then
I'm not sure if it's you lack of understanding of footy, or if you just have your head in the sand.

These teams have been in the flag window over the last few seasons;

Richmond
West Coast
Collingwood
GWS

Collingwood are done. Buckley and Collingwood need to part ways. Buckley is good enough to get a gig elsewhere.
GWS are done. It's possible they can do a mini rebuild. Doesn't matter so much what happens with Cameron.
Richmond are nearly done. Still in the window. But when that window closes (say two seasons of not making top 4), it's time to make a change.
West Coast are also nearly done. The difference with West Coast and Richmond is Richmonds game plan has been relevant over the last 4 seasons. West Coast's hasn't been relevant for 2 seasons now.

Port
Bulldogs
Demons
Lions

All in the flag window right now. You wouldn't dream of sacking these coaches.
 

HoneyBadger35

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I can't remember any more specifics, but we slid and at the time (maybe 2010/2011) I was asking for Woosha to be moved on. And then there was a bunch of posters like you saying, "but he's won a flag", "he's the best ever Eagle" etc etc.
Given your account started in 2020 and says you’re an Adelaide fan...how do you know this?
 

HoneyBadger35

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Richmond and Hawthorn were ramping upwards towards success during their run of flags. We have had our run at it and feels like we are declining.



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But equally that’s what everyone said after 2015-17.

There’s a great degree of knowing for sure Simpson is finished and the dream is over, whilst simultaneously going “well I can’t say how well a new coach would go because we don’t have a crystal ball, BUT....”
 

HoneyBadger35

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I'm not sure if it's you lack of understanding of footy, or if you just have your head in the sand.

Port
Bulldogs
Demons
Lions

All in the flag window right now. You wouldn't dream of sacking these coaches.
Intriguing that the Dogs are in contention and wouldn’t dream of sacking their coach, given they fail your “the coach had success but then the message stopped getting through and they declined” test.

Premiers 2016.
Missed finals 2017.
Missed finals 2018.
Made finals and lost an EF 2019.
Made finals and lost an EF 2020.

Surely this fails the “once the coach’s message stops getting through they can’t turn it around” claim which locks Simpson in as a failure from here on in? But five years on and Beveridge is untouchable again?
 

JezMez

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Intriguing that the Dogs are in contention and wouldn’t dream of sacking their coach, given they fail your “the coach had success but then the message stopped getting through and they declined” test.

Premiers 2016.
Missed finals 2017.
Missed finals 2018.
Made finals and lost an EF 2019.
Made finals and lost an EF 2020.

Surely this fails the “once the coach’s message stops getting through they can’t turn it around” claim which locks Simpson in as a failure from here on in? But five years on and Beveridge is untouchable again?
Nah. I never felt they should have got rid of him, nor Port of Hinkley, nor GWS of Cameron (yet).

Bulldogs pinched a flag from nowhere. They weren't even in the flag window until the 2016 PF final siren. Same as Hawks in 08 - they nabbed one early, before they hit their peak.

You're no comparing apples to oranges but you are licking the Adam Simpson lollipop. I bet you have it sideways flicking your tongue.
 

JezMez

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Nope....main issue is WCE leadership... its none existence ...who's can take over Shuey or Hurn are not in the side?....not much
I tend to agree. I think we have some senior players who just don't want to work hard. Sumich said it earlier this year - we failed over the last two seasons because of poor attitude. I think some players just can't get back to the absolute commitment needed to execute the gameplan. Since 2018 we haven't been able to get the whole team committed for extended periods.
 

HoneyBadger35

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Nah. I never felt they should have got rid of him, nor Port of Hinkley, nor GWS of Cameron (yet).
Well that’s convenient. You’ve created a rule that can predict a coach’s demise, but you knew exactly who the exceptions to that rule would be and have said all along that that was the case.

More amazing foresight (with no evidence) from an account started in 2020 that also knows the intricacies of our board from the Woosha era, and of course called his demise to a tee. All the while never once posting on this board during or after a win. At least be subtle about it mate.

You're no comparing apples to oranges but you are licking the Adam Simpson lollipop. I bet you have it sideways flicking your tongue.
Classy. Have a spell.
 

Godfather32

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Nah. I never felt they should have got rid of him, nor Port of Hinkley, nor GWS of Cameron (yet).

Bulldogs pinched a flag from nowhere. They weren't even in the flag window until the 2016 PF final siren. Same as Hawks in 08 - they nabbed one early, before they hit their peak.

You're no comparing apples to oranges but you are licking the Adam Simpson lollipop. I bet you have it sideways flicking your tongue.
Was he giving them out at one of his bbqs?
 

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geelong_crazy26

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I'm not sure if it's you lack of understanding of footy, or if you just have your head in the sand.

These teams have been in the flag window over the last few seasons;

Richmond
West Coast
Collingwood
GWS

Collingwood are done. Buckley and Collingwood need to part ways. Buckley is good enough to get a gig elsewhere.
GWS are done. It's possible they can do a mini rebuild. Doesn't matter so much what happens with Cameron.
Richmond are nearly done. Still in the window. But when that window closes (say two seasons of not making top 4), it's time to make a change.
West Coast are also nearly done. The difference with West Coast and Richmond is Richmonds game plan has been relevant over the last 4 seasons. West Coast's hasn't been relevant for 2 seasons now.

Port
Bulldogs
Demons
Lions

All in the flag window right now. You wouldn't dream of sacking these coaches.
No need to get verbally aggressive because im pointing out obvious flaws in what your saying. You have a very black and white simplistic view with such comments like bucketing coaches as good or no good based off being in a premiership window or not being in a premiership window based 100% off a coachs “relevant game plan” alone, and simply calling anyone who has dropped as irrelevant gameplans and those in contention as relevant gameplans.just too simplistic

Like i said previously, it is extremely hard to maintain over a period of time a side good enough to win a flag and be there abouts. West coast made a grand final in 2015, then won the flag in 2018. They have been thereabouts, but the reasons for declines are alot more complicated than “ the coach cant coach” or “ the players dont listen” anymore. Very simplistic black and white talk which ignores the complexities of AFL and lacks a detailed assessment of all factors.

HoneyBadger35 hope no issues with coming posting on here as geelong fan, just found this ideaology very odd about simpson who is a great coach froma neutral fan perspective
 

Balls In

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Premiership teams dont get flogged by 100 points nor do they sulk and sh*t the bed like we did last year in the hub. They dont consistantly lose inexplicably, cough up leads and fail to put teams to the sword the way we constantly do either. Coach has lost this team and too many head up arses.
 
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Cuzz09

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92 we lost to StK by 11 goals
dogs by 5 goals both games we kicked 3 goals.

94 we lost to Haw by 70 and Carl by 60 odd.

in 06 we lost to Port and Coll by 6 goals and Freo by 60.

In 18 we lost to Ess by a fair bit and NM ugly.

Just saying you never know in the long run and some of those losses did stink of no effort but the injuries and game plan is looking yuk.

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maverick001

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I don't think we should consider sacking Simmo yet. But man, the players really are doing a good impression of a side that's tuned him out.

He deserves at least the rest of the year, but any more floggings like that and it's fair to ask if something is fundamentally rotten with his regime. Buckley is a dead man walking, and he was just Dom Sheed away from winning a flag and the Pies have outperformed us since...
Interesting point this. Has outpeformed us the last two years, apart from this year, just doesn't have the premiership in the bank to keep the wolves at bay. But as you say, there's a bee's dick between him being a flag coach and simpson being one
 

maverick001

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Premiership teams dont get flogged by 100 points nor do they sulk and sh*t the bed like we did last year in the hub. They don't consistently lose inexplicably, cough up leads and fail to put teams to the sword the way we constantly do either. Coach has lost this team and too many head up arses.
Thoroughly agree with this - flag fancies shouldn't lose by 100 points no matter what, and shouldn't go from playing well within a game to going completely missing in that same game, so often.
Too many heads up arses, coach has lost the team. Could be one, could be the other. Could be both. I feel like game plan is more the issue than coach has lost the team. Needs re-working. I think Simmo has the runs on the board to suggest he can do it, but he needs to wake up and realise it's time to do it. Players attitude needs to improve drastically though, too often they don't want it enough. Is this entirely the players' fault, or should coaches take responsibility also? I think it does reflect on the coaching to an extent (which I guess goes to your point re the coach has lost the players). Simmo used the word 'weak' post-match this week in the presser, which I don't think we've seen before. At least he is seeing the issue, just needs to do something about it.

Anyhow, as I think we are no chance of a flag this year, I think Simmo needs to use 2021 and the offseason to refresh the gameplan (a lot) and fix the attitude we are seeing from players. If both of these don't happen during 2022 season, along with improved performance on-field, I think we look at a new coach for 2023.
 

The Passenger

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2017: Hardwick - first term (8th season)
2007: Thompson - first term (8th season)
Doesn't hurt to point out at the same point in their coaching careers Hardwick and Thompson had 0 and 2 finals wins, respectively, compared to Simmo's 7 wins, 2 grand final appearances and a flag.

Now the clubs are/were obviously at different stages in their development when all three coaches entered their eighth season.

I reckon we have this year and maybe next year with this group, before bottoming out. Things are looking a little shaky at the moment, but we'll know a lot more when we get some personnel back on the park. I am starting to firm in my belief that if we limp into the finals this year, we are better off making some hard list calls at the season's end and starting the rebuild in 2022. But let's get through the season first, and I must say I don't know straight off the top of my head the contract status of everyone and we may be put in a spot where we just have go for the final push in 2022.

As for the rebuild I think Simmo is the guy to see us through, but don't know for sure just yet. He has shown to be a good coach of a team that is up and about, but his credentials for building a team up from the ground are untested. For the final stages of our flag window, however, changing the coach just feels absolutely pointless. How often has this resulted in a flag? In recent times, we've seen Scott winning in his first season and Longmire his second, but they were hardly taking charge of clubs that were stuck in a bit of a rut. Beveridge is one you could claim, but that was a very unlikely path to a GF. None of those three started mid season either.

And it goes without saying unless things are absolutely (and they are NOT for us) you need to replace the coach with a better option. None of the names put forward feel like a better option for me.
 

ziad

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Look at our emerging Ressie's.
Shuey, Yoe, Cameron, Ryan, Venables, Hurn, McGoven, Rioli with Nic rested post back injury in the rock.
Surely we could entice a coach with that list and some emerging youth.
 

BartBart

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Interesting that we had 11 players 188cm or taller on w/e (out of 19 on our list). Not sure how that compares to other clubs but I'd hazard it is No.1 or close to it.

I remember tha Malthouse had a 6 or 7 tall player rule when at the Eagles. Yes, that was in a totally different era.

I just think the hard focus on tall players in the squad is overbalanced and reduced spots for mids and has probably reduced the quality of the mids we do have.
 

Coasters7

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Interesting that we had 11 players 188cm or taller on w/e (out of 19 on our list). Not sure how that compares to other clubs but I'd hazard it is No.1 or close to it.

I remember tha Malthouse had a 6 or 7 tall player rule when at the Eagles. Yes, that was in a totally different era.

I just think the hard focus on tall players in the squad is overbalanced and reduced spots for mids and has probably reduced the quality of the mids we do have.
That list also includes Allen, Brander, Witherden, Rotham, Redden and Waterman who’d all be more than capable on a wing, all are hard runners and relatively mobile. I don’t think listed height is the issue and a lot of those guys above have actually been in our best players. Our smalls are actually the ones letting us down, everyone below that 188 (that includes all the midfielders) are our worst players currently.

Our small forwards inability to impact the game and run through the middle at stages is a huge L. Willie and Ryan instead of Jones and Langdon and we’d look vastly different with the same overall height. We’d actually be “taller” with Yeo playing instead of O’Neill too but clearly that’d also make us better. Our talls are our best players, I don’t think dropping Waterman for Ainsworth for example is necessarily going to make any difference whatsoever. Vardy, Jones, Langdon, Waterman for a better contested player in Trew or Ah Chee would make more of an impact regardless of height
 

JezMez

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The talk of sacking the coach is doing my head in

its dumb and very much against what we do as a club - which is why we are highly successful

Few supporters of this club need to take a good hard look at themselves

JezMez ur killing me with that adelaide logo too. Are u even an eagles supporter?
No, I just watch every game and have an intimate knowledge of all the players, as well as our history. Everyone else accepts that I'm an Eagles supporter, so work it out.

As for calling my thinking dumb, I too think the "bury the head in the sand and support all eagles players and coaches no matter what" as both dumb and juvenile and I'm far from the only eagles supporter to think that.

Holding onto players, coaches and gameplan for too long has nothing to do with our success.

And just be be really really clear, I've supported the eagles from inception and watched every eagles game since the mid 90s. I turned it off at half time on Saturday. I think that's the first time I have done that. Priddis took me close to tuning out but I think I got through it.
 

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