Review What’s Going Wrong?

[Monocle]

They wanted it more than we did. Nothing more, nothing less.

And that: is it in a nutshell.

So when will our group 'want it enough' to become consistent? THAT is the crux of the issue.

That’s the concern that many of us share, because to be brutally honest we haven’t seen the consistent “WANT” since we won the 2018 Premiership.
They tease with a good performance mainly at home on a regular basis, but still have the brain farts at home like the Hawks game in 2019.

Coughing up leads against the Doggies two years in a row and performances like the one we have just witnessed against St Kilda are the sort of games that disappoint and skittles our Chances to finish in the top four.

If history has shown us anything it’s that to win the Premiership we need to finish in the top four and preferably in the top two.
The lack of consistency in our game application has caused us to miss the top four the last two seasons.
Thus far in 2021 I have seen nothing to suggest things have changed.

Sadly I am resigned to the fact that the senior players no longer have the desire or hunger to consistently do the hard yards and I am of the belief that this cohort will be only a one Premiership group.

Now I get all the narrative that Premierships are hard to win and we should be grateful for 2018.
That said it pisses me off that in the modern era both Hawthorn and Richmond have managed three Premierships each in a short span of time.
It could be argued that Hawthorn did so with a more talent group than we have, however I don’t buy that line of argument with Richmond as I believe that we have a more talented list than theirs.

So I look forward to monitoring and enjoying the young kids developing and look forward to seeing who we bring into the team over the next three years or so to lift us back into being hungry contenders.

Sad but true.

 

[Neale4brownlow]

Lack of midfield depth severely exposed for sure. But it was more than that on Saturday, the entire teams intensity dropped off regardless of where the ball was on the field. I reckon the players were stuffed. Which is a concern at round 4.

Agree. Possibly spent too many petrol tickets dominating Port at home last week. We always struggle to put up 4 quarters away from home...

Perhaps we should be playing tall at home (ie not too many changes this week) then swapout a couple talls for fresh legs for away games..

 

[The Dodger]

From what I keep seeing is ground ball gets are the issue. We play the Hawthorn highly skilled game and Clarko was never one for contested possessions (Hawthorn lost this stat in nearly every game they played in 2015) but he placed importance on ground ball gets.
If you aren't going to fight for the footy in close as hard as the opposition you need to get the footy another way. We have ways in NN taps and McGovern & Barrass intercepts. Once they stop working we don't touch the footy.
So we rely on midfield pressure to make the opposition bomb it in general play and when they stop doing that as StK did eventually we look second rate very quickly.
We really need some pace and run to change up that stat. As has been mentioned we have this fascination with going in tall. Probably as we have an embarrassment of riches in that area but desperately need field coverage to improve that stat.

 

[Hell Yeoh]

Yes we’re thin in the midfield. But Duggan belongs down back. Great leader too.

Duggan and Allen should be in leadership team to inject some youth.

 

[Hell Yeoh]

As someone that doesn’t know much about footy at all, can’t get over how teams “bully” us around the ball. We’re always seemingly surrounded, Can’t handball, can’t do groundball, can’t run and gun (except for Ryan, Shuey, Gaff, good Kelly )...

Whenever we transition to forward 50 from defensive 50, it ricochets right out. We’re great at going forward from centre bounces... but otherwise opponents’ forward 50 is impenetrable.

Lastly, the bloody kick-ins... Saw sooo many solo eagles on the opposite wing and or/centre, yet our only option was apparently to kick it to a contest on the right wing. Whyyyyy. I don’t know much about footy, so I’m probably looking out /criticising the wrong things...

- Old Cripps, where art thou?
- Duggan gets a pass because learning, but I miss him down back.
- Waterman underdone
Huge +ve: Brander coming along nicely. Confidence building.

Why isn’t XON playing? Could’ve probably offered more than Winder.

 

[TheGhostOfJohnBelushi]

Not sold on Shuey and Yeo being our saviours. Sure, we need them in as mids are our Achilles heel as it is. But even when they've been in over the last couple of seasons, we've had some shocking efforts.

It comes down to effort and not putting the win to bed. That's tactics and needs to be improved. Get out to 3-4 goal lead, it shouldn't be ripped straight back as often at it seems to occur. We need to be able to weather the storm and then steady a lot better than we have been.

 

[Ok Boomer]

Not enough running power in the midfield. Basically it was only Kelly, Gaff, Redden and a sick Sheed with some Duggan and Brander who are midfield noobs.

The first four names were simply swamped in the last third of the game, none of them had any power left. Kelly tried a couple of things and Gaff always works hard but it is nowhere near enough.

One thing I have noticed this year is that Gaff seems to have lost a little bit of pace, clearly this was never his strength as an athlete but several times this season I have seen others run away from him which I have not seen before.

 

[RookiePick]

...One thing I have noticed this year is that Gaff seems to have lost a little bit of pace, clearly this was never his strength as an athlete but several times this season I have seen others run away from him which I have not seen before.

All the extra bulk he's put on for playing inside must be slowing him down.

 

[ziad]

Yes we’re thin in the midfield. But Duggan belongs down back. Great leader too.

Duggan and Allen should be in leadership team to inject some youth.

good defenders but they dont lead us to wins.

 

[Astro7]

Yesterday’s loss was a shocker, there’s no way of putting lipstick on the pig. We had a good chance to consolidate a position near the top of the ladder and completely blew it. We had our foot on the head of an average team, didn’t finish the job and let them get up and embarrass us. They are probably chortling about one of their greatest ever wins.

This loss has serious implications for our season and makes a win this week against a Collingwood with their backs to the wall imperative. If we drop the Collingwood game then we will be 2-4, as we won’t be beating Geelong in Geelong. That will be just about the season.

We have nearly, if not the most talented list in the competition. Why aren’t we better?

My answer is that one of the main reasons goes back to an unbalanced, misguided recruiting policy. We have too many tall players which we are trying to fit into the team and too few midfielders. Recruiting Brander, Allen and Waterman in one draft was just crazy. Sure, they are all good players but how do they fit into a team that already has Kennedy and Darling?

We were slaughtered in the midfield yesterday. We don’t have our two best midfielders but the depth is lamentably thin. We are seeing Trew who has played two WAFL games as our saviour. This is poor recruiting and it’s coming home to roost.

There are other big issues of course but unbalanced recruiting is a major problem. Duggan does not seem to be a midfielder, he seems to have lost his game altogether. Sheed and Kelly were trying to carry the entire load yesterday that was too much for them.

A balanced view without all the knee-jerk reactions and dramatic calls on players and coaches!
(which is only to be expected on game day thread and Pos+negs post games.)
Remember we were going in to get much needed mids in that fateful draft not long ago, but we couldn't pass on the opportunities that arose unexpectedly when some talented potential Kpp's were overlooked and we snatched them up, further exposing our lack of midfield depth.
We threw the kitchen sink at TK, maybe expecting a quick magic fix.
The Kpp's turned out to be a good investment so far and we've since picked up more mid depth albeit young, along with some bandaid fixes front and back that are too early to tell...

Venables, Rioli, Yeo, Shuey now Hurn...is the real problem. If they were all playing together, our depth would be looking good. There would be less strain on NN, Gaff, Sheed, Redden, even TK to carry the burden or extra load outside their normal roles.

We're doing running repairs on a weekly basis, playing patch-up football, reminiscent of the late stages of last season - groundhog day - and we're only 4 games into the new season! Consequently players are getting shifted around to fill the holes and this must affect the synergy, Duggan for example! He's not only learning a new role but getting moved around from game to game as needed.

I understand the current issue is about the players intent regardless of our midfield blues, they're accused of having no heart or grit, not closing games down? But we forget the close games they fought out and snatched or the games they came back from a losing margin to win (a GF anyone -without NN, Gaff, Shep and TK!?), or games where they have annihilated the oppo. Maybe other teams have similar swings, maybe it's the comp? Maybe some perspective and patience is required? BTW all the teams who have won multiple flags in a row are based on the eastern seaboard.

It's hard to be positive at this stage, facing Pies with backs to the wall, then Cats in their sandbox, given our depleted midfield. We look pretty banged up today after training run and have a payback agenda with the Pies for that finals exit. Not confident we can do it, but if we do manage a win, it might be a morale booster, regardless of the Cats outcome, for the remaining games before the bye?
Otherwise after round 6 we could be 2-4? Can we manage until the cavalry arrive?

 

[FKASC]

From what I keep seeing is ground ball gets are the issue. We play the Hawthorn highly skilled game and Clarko was never one for contested possessions (Hawthorn lost this stat in nearly every game they played in 2015) but he placed importance on ground ball gets.
If you aren't going to fight for the footy in close as hard as the opposition you need to get the footy another way. We have ways in NN taps and McGovern & Barrass intercepts. Once they stop working we don't touch the footy.
So we rely on midfield pressure to make the opposition bomb it in general play and when they stop doing that as StK did eventually we look second rate very quickly.
We really need some pace and run to change up that stat. As has been mentioned we have this fascination with going in tall. Probably as we have an embarrassment of riches in that area but desperately need field coverage to improve that stat.

Ground ball gets are pretty much the key to winning with today’s footy, and it’s a shame they don’t show them like they do with less relevant stats like ‘clearances’.

They’re about desire to hunt the footy and clean hands. Most of our players lack the latter, which we can’t do much about, but the former is something that comes and goes based on mindset.

We supposedly got Kelly to address the this, but while it looks like he has the clean hands, the jury is out about whether he has the same desire as he did at Geelong

 

[The wily weagle]

Question: when was the last time we used a high first round pick, drafted a midfielder, and then proceeded to play them in the midfield? Was it Sheed?

If it was, that speaks volumes. We seem to have some weird obsession for drafting guys from almost every other position and trying to turn them into midfielders. Half back flankers immediately spring to mind.

We need some more quality midfield depth immediately

 

[Doashuey]

Question: when was the last time we used a high first round pick, drafted a midfielder, and then proceeded to play them in the midfield? Was it Sheed?

If it was, that speaks volumes. We seem to have some weird obsession for drafting guys from almost every other position and trying to turn them into midfielders. Half back flankers immediately spring to mind.

We need some more quality midfield depth immediately

LOL when did we last have a high 1st round pick? Speaks volumes about our ability to remain a top 8 team.
This record is broken.

 

[The wily weagle]

LOL when did we last have a high 1st round pick?

Brander, pick 13?

 

[Doashuey]

Brander, pick 13?

Sure, if 13 out of 18 is high. Its not BTW.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Contested ball is what’s wrong and it has been for a long time, yes we have our two best mids out but it takes very little skill to be strong in the contest and that is where we struggle. You don’t need to be only a star midfielder to be strong at the contest. Anyone can be good at contested ball.
So why is it that we are out muscled, bullied around the contested ball? What has the club done to rectify it when it’s been so obvious for so long? The answer is they have done nothing about it at all. Just simply gone about there business and accepted it.
Flags are very hard to win and we have won one in our window, we have been in that window for about 5 years now.
Here is what should of been done, you trade out your players that continue to let you down in contested ball and trade in players to fix that. You do this in your window to give you the ultimate chance to win flags, you ignore player popularity you just focus on what is needed.
We haven’t done this, we got Kelly who is ok but more of an elite ball mover than a contested ball beast. It’s all over the ground by the way we have this issue, not just midfield.
I really don’t know if they can overcome this issue now, might be a bit late.

 

[Rowdy P]

I don't know if I was watching a different game, but we were getting smashed at the contest for pretty much the whole game. The only reason we were up by 30 points was that Saints were completely incompetent going forward and we were remarkably efficient. Watching at home, I said at half-time that I saw us losing, or winning by a couple of points, as the Saints only had to improve slightly and they would maul us.

Similarly, the only reason the bulldogs game was close was that they couldn't kick a goal to save themselves in the first half - we should have lost by at least 5 goals.

Against Port, the first half was one of those nights where every bounce of the ball, kick off the ground, spoil fell in our arms and we couldn't do any wrong. Once the luck dried up at half-time, they outscored us.

And I wasn't that impressed with the Gold Coast win, a young side with their best player injured ran out of legs in the heat, otherwise we were staring down the barrel of a loss (they were up by 7 in the last quarter).

I actually don't think we are as good as everyone thinks, and could quite easily be 0-4. I think our style of play is too dependent on contested marks and above average forward efficiency, and is highly susceptible to weather, opposition effort and pace, a run of bad luck and Nic hit-outs, and can easily fall in a heap if everything isn't perfect.

 

[Cuzz09]

Hopefully this gets bumped in October and someone just says...

"not too much"

On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[ziad]

I don't know if I was watching a different game, but we were getting smashed at the contest for pretty much the whole game. The only reason we were up by 30 points was that Saints were completely incompetent going forward and we were remarkably efficient. Watching at home, I said at half-time that I saw us losing, or winning by a couple of points, as the Saints only had to improve slightly and they would maul us.

Similarly, the only reason the bulldogs game was close was that they couldn't kick a goal to save themselves in the first half - we should have lost by at least 5 goals.

Against Port, the first half was one of those nights where every bounce of the ball, kick off the ground, spoil fell in our arms and we couldn't do any wrong. Once the luck dried up at half-time, they outscored us.

And I wasn't that impressed with the Gold Coast win, a young side with their best player injured ran out of legs in the heat, otherwise we were staring down the barrel of a loss (they were up by 7 in the last quarter).

I actually don't think we are as good as everyone thinks, and could quite easily be 0-4. I think our style of play is too dependent on contested marks and above average forward efficiency, and is highly susceptible to weather, opposition effort and pace, a run of bad luck and Nic hit-outs, and can easily fall in a heap if everything isn't perfect.

We must have the same TV. It almost looks like we win on quality possession and disposal efficiency so players forget the have to get their hands dirty. We were lucky to win in 2018 - it all fell into place. When he arrived Simmo said our weakness is our midfield. Being up the top half of the ladder and not a destination club for trades makes it tough to build a midfield.

 

[Free Agent]

All I can say is if we are up by 40 points I'm not or ever comfortable with this Eagles side and that says something about our mental weakness.

We are always a chance for a string of goals against in quick succession if we turn off so no lead is ever sealed up when it should be.

I don't know how to fix this. How do we just completely stop in games and let sides overrun us. Happens to much.

Sent from my CPH2025 using Tapatalk

 

[greatwhiteshark]

We must have the same TV. It almost looks like we win on quality possession and disposal efficiency so players forget the have to get their hands dirty. We were lucky to win in 2018 - it all fell into place. When he arrived Simmo said our weakness is our midfield. Being up the top half of the ladder and not a destination club for trades makes it tough to build a midfield.

it depends if you are prepared to trade good players out to get better players in. Trading mid to high draft picks generally doesn't get you what you need.
Shuey, Gaff, Sheed, redden, Yeo, Kelly are our midfielders. Would you trade any of them out to get a similar player that is contested ball winner beast?
Maybe go further, would you trade out Mcgovern who simply does not play on anyone to get that contested ball winning type player? using Mcgovern as an example.
Sometimes you have to weaken an area to fix the bigger problem would you agree? Unfortunately for us and I have no idea how this happened but contested ball is a problem for us the entire length of the ground. Forward, back and Midfield. For this to be the case tells me this is how they are instructed to play because it is not possible to have that many people in a group not prepared to get their hands dirty.

 

[shooshka]

LOL when did we last have a high 1st round pick? Speaks volumes about our ability to remain a top 8 team.
This record is broken.

Last top 10 pick we took was Gaff in 2010. We had a top 10 pick in 2013 that we split into 11 (Sheed) and 28 (Yeo).

Duggan taken at 11 in 2014

Then Venables and Brander both at 13 in 2016/2017.

You are right - that history says a hell of a lot about our ability to remain in contention (in the time since our last top-10 draft pick we've made finals 8/10 seasons, made 2 grand finals, and obviously have 1 premiership). It is also interesting to contrast that with GC (as our last top-10 pick was the same year they entered the draft/comp) - they have taken 20 top 10 picks (plus 2 mini draft picks, plus a number of players at 11/12/13) and are yet to make finals...

 

[Tugga27]

I don't know if I was watching a different game, but we were getting smashed at the contest for pretty much the whole game. The only reason we were up by 30 points was that Saints were completely incompetent going forward and we were remarkably efficient. Watching at home, I said at half-time that I saw us losing, or winning by a couple of points, as the Saints only had to improve slightly and they would maul us.

Similarly, the only reason the bulldogs game was close was that they couldn't kick a goal to save themselves in the first half - we should have lost by at least 5 goals.

Against Port, the first half was one of those nights where every bounce of the ball, kick off the ground, spoil fell in our arms and we couldn't do any wrong. Once the luck dried up at half-time, they outscored us.

And I wasn't that impressed with the Gold Coast win, a young side with their best player injured ran out of legs in the heat, otherwise we were staring down the barrel of a loss (they were up by 7 in the last quarter).

I actually don't think we are as good as everyone thinks, and could quite easily be 0-4. I think our style of play is too dependent on contested marks and above average forward efficiency, and is highly susceptible to weather, opposition effort and pace, a run of bad luck and Nic hit-outs, and can easily fall in a heap if everything isn't perfect.

We "could quite easily be 0-4".
Turn it up.
We could quite easily be 4-0.

So when we win, it's because of good luck, hot weather and injuries to the other team?

Against the Bulldogs, we were 3 goals up in the last quarter when Cripps kicked into the man on the mark in the goal square. That would've probably put the game to bed.

The game against Port was over at half time and we probably took our foot of the pedal a little bit. Having said that, Port are an excellent side so they were always going to come back at some stage. It's not like they smashed us on the 2nd half.

We were 33 points up against the Saints when Liam Ryan had a shot for goal and kicked it out on the full. We had also lost out best kick in Hurn, but I guess that isn't worth mentioning either.

Sure, we capitulated after that, but at least try to give a balanced view of our year so far

To say we could be 0-4, is nothing short of ludicrous.

Looking forward to your review this week.

If we win, I guess it's because we're at home, it's too hot and the Pies have lost Taylor Adams.

And if we lose, you won't be surprised because we're crap anyway.

 

[Tugga27]

We must have the same TV. It almost looks like we win on quality possession and disposal efficiency so players forget the have to get their hands dirty. We were lucky to win in 2018 - it all fell into place. When he arrived Simmo said our weakness is our midfield. Being up the top half of the ladder and not a destination club for trades makes it tough to build a midfield.
[/QUOTE

I'm not sure you could say we were lucky to win it.

From memory that year, we played in Melbourne 4 times and were unbeaten.
We also beat the reigning premiers by 8 goals at home.

Also lost NN, Shep and Gaff along the way.
Played Collingwood on their home deck in the GF.

Sometimes I think our supporters place way too much expectations on our club.

Coming off a bad loss, I've read among other things
: Simmo is soft and has run out of ideas.
: Should never have recruited Kelly
: Gov should be traded for Patrick Cripps
: Darling should be dropped

It's unbelievable TBH.

 

[shooshka]

We "could quite easily be 0-4".
Turn it up.
We could quite easily be 4-0.

So when we win, it's because of good luck, hot weather and injuries to the other team?

Against the Bulldogs, we were 3 goals up in the last quarter when Cripps kicked into the man on the mark in the goal square. That would've probably put the game to bed.

The game against Port was over at half time and we probably took our foot of the pedal a little bit. Having said that, Port are an excellent side so they were always going to come back at some stage. It's not like they smashed us on the 2nd half.

We were 33 points up against the Saints when Liam Ryan had a shot for goal and kicked it out on the full. We had also lost out best kick in Hurn, but I guess that isn't worth mentioning either.

Sure, we capitulated after that, but at least try to give a balanced view of our year so far

To say we could be 0-4, is nothing short of ludicrous.

Looking forward to your review this week.

If we win, I guess it's because we're at home, it's too hot and the Pies have lost Taylor Adams.

And if we lose, you won't be surprised because we're crap anyway.

What was the margin when Darling dropped his sitter in the goal-square?

Both our losses at Marvel we've had big, big chances to either re-gain momentum or at least slow the opponents momentum...