Opinion What are our current areas of concern or improvement required

[GapInIkonPark]

Lack foot speed to break the lines

Lack kicking and handpass skills to break the lines.

Lack kicking and handpass skills to hit a target. Particular issue in exiting defence (panic, turnover) and kicking into F50 (forward craft non existent to leave a player free or create a mismatch, futile with poor / slow delivery).

We cannot out-contest everyone, it’s too hard to sustain for the season.

Keep Cripps out of the ruck.

Swap Kemp back to defense and JSOS forward.

 

[jd2010]

IMO if we tidy up the 4 highlighted ones, it will go a very long way to winning more games than we lose.

We've been doing it for 3 years so I don't hold out much hope for it

 

[jd2010]

• Lack of tactical and game day nous - very often beaten in the coaches box.
• Sticking with a game plan which hasn’t worked since Melbourne won the flag in 2021.

The amount of times sides have found it either easy to stop us from the get go and we can't work out how to stop it. I'm thinking Pendlebury to Cripps. Or at HT of games and taking us out of the game, Richmond and JW at half time round 1. Or how many times we get it completely wrong, Young vs Chol their only KPF. Repeated mistakes or being out smarted is the coach killer for me

The game plan thing is a huge worry. Not so much as the lack of tactical nous. I guess my major concern here is we've added no layers and have doubled down on the same style we were playing in 2022. It's like Melbourne but with elite KPF and no proper 2nd KPD, which makes even less sense of why to play this way. I get Melbournes style with their forward line. We can't absorb like Melbourne does regularly because we have 1 KPD, 3 floating 3rd falls and Lewis Young on our list. If we went for a Battle or Barrass to be our Lever to pair with our May in Weitering it might make some sense to stick with this after 4 years. The game plan and this list has never been able to be a good football team for more than 2 months at a time. Even the first half of last season, we were winning but playing at about 60%.

 

[jd2010]

Coaches and List Management get a lot of finger pointing, but another area i think we're almost unmatched for being the worst at, maybe equalled by NM and GC. The list is full of statistical "losers"

How many of our guys have played in less than 50% of their games as wins?

I feel like the group goes into their shells so quickly and doesn't back themselves is because they've lost so many times they're scarred and scared

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Coaching
My biggest complaint regarding the coaching is just the lack of spacing around the ball. In other dynamic and continuous ball sports like basketball and soccer, spacing is everything. Throughout the Voss years it's become all too common to see 2-3 guys hunting the same loose ball, or 4-5 guys converging on an opposition player who has possession. I think other clubs do a better job of occupying the space around the ball, to present as receiving options if attacking, or to restrict them if defending.

On numerous occasions Voss has stated that they want to 'outnumber at the contest', so if we take him at face value, this is precisely what he wants. Moreover, he routinely sends a spare man to stoppages, when most other coaches prefer to play the extra behind the ball. I think this actually hurts our stoppage and clearance game if anything. We have four brilliant contested ball winning on-ballers in De Koning, Cerra, Hewett and Cripps, and he should back them to win their 1 on 1s more often than not. Instead he sends the extra there as insurance, but in reality the extra often clogs running lanes, and restricts our inside mids ability to make plays.

Great post, particularly this part. It's why our ball movement and connection is so poor.
You don't need the whole team to have laser kicks if there is more space and player movement.

 

[katmanblue]

the list of what we can improve.

 

[CoachB]

Coaching 40% - I was very critical of the process we followed getting Voss, I thought Ross was a better fit with his tactical nous, but in my view the Board let non football opinions dictate their decision. Ok, so we got Voss, good guy, good leader, tactically weak, where are the gun assistants???? We ended up with a good leader of men and a few mediocre tacticians. And I should say Voss is media trained within an inch of his life, is vague in his conversation and never actually says anything that means anything. So I quess we have some insight into a lack of precision on the park. Solution: I think we will extend Voss, back him. But we must bring in some young coaches and data guys to run the show, clear out current crop of assistants, they haven't worked out. The issue that annoys me the most is the lack of transition from the midfield to the forward line. Too often we lose control of possession and we get taken to the cleaners on the rebound.

List Management 40% - I think Graham Wright will sort this out, he is the back office master (on-field). I will trust him to get it done. But for me, we have too much cap tied up in too few players, and we seem to use the same non-football opinions to make recruiting decisions, drives me nuts. For the record, I don't rate Lloyd or Austin.

I would ship out a contract to free up cap space, I strongly prefer that its not TDK, but he may be the one that has to go. We just can't have $1.0 to $1.7m tied up in a ruckman.

High Performance 10%- Think the move last season was the right one, might take a few seasons to manifest.

AFL 10% Ultimately, the AFL hasn't freed up player movement because they are concerned that the weak will get weaker. I think we need a free market and if we have to lose a few teams as a consequence so be it. As it stands today, it is very hard to get from the bottom to the top. There is just not enough talent coming through the draft each year to move the dial unless you are picking in the top 15. Trading needs to be opened up.

CB

 

[NavySteel]

Strictly on the questions:

• Coaching/Gamplan - 50%
• List Management - 15%
• HP/Rehab - 20%
• Player Commitment - 15%

I posted this in another thread but...

In honesty, my opinion (FWIW, which is not much) is a combination of:

• a fragile psyche (and fair enough when the majority of the list have been flogged on the park for most of their careers) - that falls on the football department, the coaches and the players
• illusion of "selection integrity" - falls on the coach and match day committee
• lack of a contemporary game plan, both at a macro level and tactical on gameday - we can hear it all day from the club that they're training to stem the flow of goals. The fact that it's happening over and over and over and over again points to structural problems and reluctance on gameday to switch things up when they're not working. Transition and i50 entries; we're flogged when teams transition to the forward line, and we suck at rebounding. General i50 entries are bombs or to 2/3 on 1s - has been a problem for ages. It doesn't matter that 'we had more tackles', 'more i50s', 'more clearances' - all that matters is winning. That falls on the coaches
• lack of actual team cohesion - that falls on the captain and leadership group

How is it fixed?
- get an industry leader in sports psychology to come in and work with the group. A "winning mindset" is a thing. It's not just football, but other parts of life as well - in work, aspirations, etc. "Winning" needs to be ingrained in each individual who puts on the jumper. It looks like the effort is there, but there needs to be a genuine mindset of dominating the opponent -- we had opportunities in the Tigers and Hawks game to really blaze away. Look back - there's key moments where an easy goal should have been slotted, or a key tackle made, and then we didn't and boom 12-point turnaround and the start of the in-game collapse begins. Make the goal, make the tackle, etc. lifts the team, generates momentum and then powers the steamroller. We've seen this, we know they can do it.

- gameplan - need to go back to second half of 2023 and not listen to the coach on stuff. After "camp Curnow" the players switched it on in a blink when form was not unlike the first half of 2023. That or coach needs to switch the gameplan when things aren't going our way - my concern is coach is too stubborn or he's too ignorant to see opposion coaches have made changes when the game isn't going their way. Literally one can see it in real time. Example, 10mins into the 2nd qtr in the Richmond game Yze changed tact - and it worked to the tune of 11 goals, until coach made changes second half of the last quarter and we actually wrestled back momentum.

- "selection integrity" - actually have "selection integrity" - no favourites, play on form. If players want to have a bruised ego and sook and moan -- wrong mindset, go find another club that is fine with it. Starts with coach actually having a clear mindset on how to win with the personnel who are in good form, not "yeah but they'll come good again, just wait, it'll turn around if we just do the same thing over and over"

- cohesion - love Crippa and would love for him to be a premier captain, but dragging the team along has to take a mental toll. Would love for someone to step up with a fresh look and insatiable hunger to win and instils that hunger to the group. Won't happen this season though.

This is generally the same core group as 2023. It is absolutely baffling that they can be a furious and rampant machine in 2023 but then almost scared to do anything this year WHEN things aren't going our way on gameday.

I do think it's a football department issue. Membership numbers, other critical financial figures, etc. see to be humming along.

 

[jd2010]

Our top 6 eclipses the rest.

Lazy narrative is our bottom 6 are battlers. Newsflash bottom 6 players at all clubs are

Our problem is we play about 12 of them each week. Our players from 7-17 are just okay players who can't influence games without riding the wave of the likes of Charlie or Cripps.

Compare these, imo 7-12th bests, on lists

Carlton: Cerra, Hewett, Saad, Acres, JSOS, ???
Brisbane: Rayner, Big O, Lohmann, Ah Chee, Bailey, Ashcroft
GWS: Daniels, Toby, Idun, Bedford, Buckley, Kelly

None of ours have changed the outcome of a game. They've all had nice games for us. And played well in wins when 4 or 5 of the big dogs fire. The difference in quality is stark once you go past our 6 best and these sides is HUGE

 

[BlueTongue]

Football

 

[The Defender]

Recruiting dept need to go. Austin, Agresta, Brody get rid of them.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

I think having a busting salary cap with a middling team is always a recipe for disaster --Need a real reset with list and structure of payments -- maybe if finish low enough take band one for TDK he has plays 4 of his best games in our 4 losses and was probably beaten by both Nank and Cameron --
Going for long periods without impacting scoreboard has been a problem for a very long time even when we were winning all our scoring was coming in a single term..

 

[agro]

Get rid of most of the Football Dept please.

 

[BlueTongue]

I would ship out a contract to free up cap space, I strongly prefer that its not TDK, but he may be the one that has to go. We just can't have $1.0 to $1.7m tied up in a ruckman.

Why does 'a ruckman' matter? That old school train of thought is unjustifiable in today's game.

TDK & Jackson are the prototypes of what Ruck will become - I'll bet my left * on it. They are just as busy, or busier than any other Mid and have less support.

If he is currently our best player, (at least this year) and is around the contest more than any other 'mid' why not? it's not like there's 3 or 4 rucks to rotate through.

If it was a top tier Mid would you happily give up 1.7?

 

[Inspector Closseau]

My theory on our current dilemma:

Voss played a bash and crash style which was his admiral quality.

In the recent past, this style of footy has been lauded and we have a Voss-like character whose managed to pick up a couple of Brownlow's.

However, the game has moved on and is about run and explosion, 45's inside, widening the field etc. - no better illustrated by Mitchell's Hawks. Dynamic small forwards seems to be part of the formula.

Our players were expected to bash and crash which had an injury toll which we attributed to our performance staff but instead was a result of reckless abandon.

It is now accepted within the Club that bash and crash is not a winning formula and they are trying to be more Hawthorn like in their ball movement but this has undermined Voss's authority within the group and they no longer are prepared to risk their bodies under any circumstances.

This I believe is the underlying psychology within the Team as Voss tilts his changed message.

Our draft and recruitment has been appalling.

We over-rate our list and some players.

etc. etc.

The Board are useless DEI warriors who are more concerned in their next appointment rather than the core business of a Footy Club. It's been 30 years! Soon we'll tell tales of that poor supporter who waited all his life for a Premiership so he can die happy. Like a Footscray or a St. Kilda supporter.

When I was growing up it used to be every second year.

 

[Wickzki]

Would previously post this in the ATG thread but not suitable anymore.

Just got done watching the Melbourne game.

Sense so many of the same problems compared to how we play the game.

They don't have a Curnow. We don't have a Fritsch.

However, both teams have pretty similar strengths through the backline and midfield.

Both teams built on similar tenets, I feel.

The game has passed both lists by.

 

[Gethelred]

2 things, really.

1. Connection between the rest of the team and the forward line.

If you look at the stats, we don't actually do too badly exiting rear half in comparison to the rest of the comp. We're underperforming around the ball, but it's only a problem because there is no real connection between forward 50 and the rest of the team. The ball enters - whether low or high; this is a more complex problem than just 'they bomb it in from 50m away, long high ball' stuff - and it is not to a forward's advantage, nor is it directed at a dangerous spot.

You look at a team like Hawthorn or Sydney, when entering front half from rear half - not 50; transition from the defensive half of the ground - the ball is only ever kicked to a target or a patch of grass. If it's a fast play, it'll be to a target inside 50; if it's a slow play, it'll be to the most dangerous patch of grass they can find. They also move the ball through half forward by running it, not kicking it; this means the entry when generated is deeper and possibly even just a running shot at goal from 45m rather than just straight kick to a leading target.

2. Injury management and preventative measures.

Yes, our availability has not really been an excuse this year, but the problem here isn't purely availability. Players get injured in this game, and on occasion some of those players play through that injury. What I'm referring to here is the amount of players at Carlton who are forced to play through being only 60-80% fitness; our availability might be okay, but I take leave to guess that there'd be a number of players carrying niggles, playing through hampered fitness.

Now, this is a comp wide thing, right? Probably. But if the injury/rehab departments are going to spruik their 'conservative attitude' when discussing Charlie's return, they need to have a similar attitude to Cripps and Walsh; both players have clearly not been at their best, and no it has not been a form thing. Both players play with limited movement in the waist, unable to truly bend for the ball; both are one grab players.

One of the complaints you see thrown in the team's direction is that we seem flat footed or that we struggle to get out of a jog; well, this right here's your culprit. 9/10, a player who's at 70-80% isn't winning a leg race with someone who is at 90-100%. And the response here would be to say that, "No club has 100% fit and available list!"; well, that's why Sydney towelled us up in Round 10 last year, because by that point in the season we were playing wounded and they weren't.

More caution needs to be taken, and players need to be selected only when they're ready to actually meet their physical capabilities at their peak, not 'they're better than the other options even when injured.'

 

[Yubby]

I've been thinking a bit over the last week about what's different now compared to our 2023 season where we made the prelim. It's interesting, when i look at the squad that played the 3 finals in 2023, 21 of the 26 are still on our list. The 5 that played throughout those finals who have left are Owies, Kennedy, Martin, Marchbank and Cuningham. None of those 5 played all 3 finals games either.

When i look at our current team i see that our depth isn't as strong as we also had Ed Curnow, Dow and Fish used throughout the year whereas now it's Williams, Haynes, Lord, and then going to the younger kids in terms of what's different in terms of personnel.

But if you compare us from now to then, you can clearly see that it's not really that personnel changes are the difference, it's something else. There's been a lot of talk about the game having changed from a contested game to a kicking game but do we think that explains it enough? Surely there's more to it? Most players are not playing anywhere near their 2023 levels with the exception of TDK, Hewett and Weitering.

At the start of round 14 we sat 15th on the ladder with a record of 4W, 1D, 8L... but we turned it around. What did we do that started things going again for us (outside of the curnow camp) that we have gone away from?

 

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

No up to date methodology on how to transition the ball. Watch us move from stoppage against good sides. They spread in a clever manner with purpose. We just chase or suck into the contest.

Also, our players look a yard slower than everyone else on the pitch. We have no speed and power.

Don’t get me started on d50 stoppage set ups or defending kick ins.

Not to mention our ball movement inside 50.

Honestly it’s hard to pinpoint what’s wrong because there is just too much to choose from.

 

[Yubby]

Going to reply to my own post here after finding this...

Brutal, bullying Blues: The historic stats behind Carlton's revival

Riley Beveridge dives into the factors driving Carlton's season-shaping winning streak

www.afl.com.au

Over the last seven weeks Champion Data notes Carlton is the No.1 team for points for, points against, scores from stoppage differential, clearance differential, groundball gets differential and goals per inside-50. The Blues also rank top-five for shot at goal accuracy and inside-50 differential.

 

[Doro]

Id like to find a record of the 'pressure ratings' that gets given on TV coverage. We bring it over the 200 mark first half - a bit like Foreman in the rumble in the jungle. Punch ourselves out. Opposition stay close enough with the rope a dope and we fall in a heap second half. Inefficient and unsuccessful way to approach it.

 

[Psychochook]

We don't present well enough, or consistently enough in kick-mark transition.

Static targets don't shift defensive zones.

 

[CoachB]

Why does 'a ruckman' matter? That old school train of thought is unjustifiable in today's game.

TDK & Jackson are the prototypes of what Ruck will become - I'll bet my left * on it. They are just as busy, or busier than any other Mid and have less support.

If he is currently our best player, (at least this year) and is around the contest more than any other 'mid' why not? it's not like there's 3 or 4 rucks to rotate through.

If it was a top tier Mid would you happily give up 1.7?

Our payroll appears to be top heavy already as we clearly don't have enough cash to buy a bottom six that are worth their salt. With our current set up we cant give $1.7m to anyone! (even Josh Giddey if he wanted to discount the $45m+ he will be earning next season).

 

[Arr0w]

My snapshot for now

• 15% - Coaching/Gamplan
• 50% - List Management
• 20% - HP/Rehab
• 15% - Player Commitment

Not much has changed for me, 4 games in

15% - Coaching/Gamplan

Stated a number of times, our coaches set up well for a game, but in-game they are either non-reactive or takes way too long to pull any levers

Voss, like McFly are figurehead coaches. No coach can viably assess/coach any game while standing at ground level, no coach. There difference is having stronger assistants and better resources/palyers to action even the most basic gameplan and tactics

I noticed a number of people have mentioned basics and fundamentals and if thats based on gameplan and tactics, yes thats the responsibility of the coaches. But, from junior level, players know the basics, you are either an elite kick or your not, you either have speed or you don't, etc

Every club knows what the opposition gameplan is, their strengths and weaknesses, it more about what you do with and without the pill

50% - List Management

I'm still miffed by what Austin has done over the last 5 years. I understand all the challenges with cap and capital to build a list, but the last off season was the most perplexing

We were a side in "ready-to-go" mode. Yes, finally moved on injury prone players, but to clear out readymade consistent footballers too? Then, we gave up 2 x 1sts and a 2nd for a draftee, and sold the propaganda that he was our number 1 target? If you believe that, I have prime real estate in Chernobyl i can sell you

In 5 years, how many mid/forwards, with speed, xfactor and above average footskills have we acquired?

20% - HP/Rehab

Been a slow start, and yes the numbers seem to suggest that we might be out sprinting opponents or at least more competitive in this area, but thats based on basic measures and we now have sides outworking us on overall run

Why would you try to turn Cliff Young into Usain Bolt

15% - Player Commitment

Slightly better than the first 2 weeks, but we have way too many conditional, selfish, lazy players. Unfortunately, we really don't have enough fit or ready to go players to make a statement at the selection table

So, whats the circuit breaker?

The easy thing to do is sack another coach, to appease the noise and hopefully have another short term sugar hit. If that was to happen, I dont want any of our assistants being the interim coach, I would give that gig to Power, so we have another set of eyes on players and coaches

If this club is serious about making a bold statement, I would be looking at least at one of the assistants and a number of players, right now to make a real statement

 

[jj1978]

Would just love to see consistent execution of kicks and hand passes even under zero pressure. What are the odds of a list of 44+ players pretty much majority lacking in overall consistency in application if the core skills.