What are the chances of Footy overtaking league in NSW and Queensland?

Remove this Banner Ad

BringBackTorps

Club Legend
Jan 5, 2017
2,203
1,348
AFL Club
GWS
1.
Guess you don't wanna answer.[LOL!]
Why don't you answer my questions I have put directly to YOU c. 7 times (by addressing the issues in the questions)?
See my questions to you in my above posts #210 & 212; & my questions put to you, in my posts# 1722 1789 1917 1978 1995 3176 3278- in the "Sydney 3rd Team, It's Only A Matter of Time" thread.

These questions are mainly about the recent strong growth (which you deny) of the AFL, & GR AF, in NSW, ACT, Qld.; & the decline of RL & RU (all supported by corroborative links from c. 25+ RL, RU, & soccer MSM experts, & former RL, RU & soccer Officials & ex-players).

C'mon, be honest. Look at all[lie] of BringBacktorps posts -
Stop lying about what I post. I post on a myriad of subjects, across a range of threads.

Afl clubs rely on pokies money too.
Another distorted, half fact from you.

AFL clubs, as you know, do not "rely" on pokies anywhere near to the same extent as NRL Clubs. And most AFL Clubs are phasing them out, or don't have any.

My observation is afl fans will the failure of other sports more than anybody else[lie]
Another lie from you, & you know it's a lie.
I have just noticed you are a common LU contributor- it, along with soccer social media fan sites, constantly says negative & insulting comments about the AFL, the game of AF, & AFL fans.
In contrast, the % of negative or insulting comments on BF, or other AF social media, re RL, RU & soccer, is miniscule by comparison.

To each their own - follow whatever sport you want.
Exactly. Stop lying that you are an AFL fan.
Everyone knows you are trolling AF. You are, obviously, very fearful of the significant growth of AF in NSW, ACT, & Qld.- & the significant decline of male contact RL (as per posts# 107 110; & Sydney 3rd Team thread).

But why are afl fans keen to see other sports fail & their's reign?
You are a soccer & RL fan, who uses their social media, inc. the sad LU (& equally sad WSW fan site, according to posters here).
You know there is a much higher % of RL & soccer fan social media comments & abuse who want to see the AFL "fail & their's reign".

Also, the leadership of these sports sometimes make direct attacks/promote policies that seek to inflict damage on the AFL & GR AF eg

. the FFA, F. Lowy & other soccer Officials wanted the AFL closed/severely curtailed (despite AFL having contracts to its grounds!), as par of its WC Bid. Massive $ & MSM losses for the AFL!

. at various times, Soccer, RL, & basketball officials have said they intend to displace AF as Australia's leading sport

. When GWS was announced, some soccer & NRL etc. officials made strong & continuing attacks on AFL & GWS "It will be the AFL's Vietnam etc.". Ditto, GCFC. Not as frequent now, because of GWS' success- & GR male contact RL's big decline in Sydney & Brisbane! See posts #107 110, & Sydney thread.

Many in the Sydney & Brisbane etc. northern MSM then made very negative comments re AF; or GWS, or GC- & occasionally still do.
RL & soccer fan social media sites then, & still do now, very regularly make negative & insulting comments re GWS, GCFC, the AFL &/or AF etc.

. P. V'landys, since covid-19, has made some negative comments re the AFL (as has the AFL, re the NRL, but fewer).

. historically, of course, in the 19th century, AF was denied access to enclosed grounds in Sydney- which greatly hindered the ability for it to raise funds/ promote AF effectively etc.

Until recent years, AF was banned in many schools in NSW & Qld., despite AF being Australia's major sport. AF is still not offered in Sydney's Kings School, Scots, & St Augustine's for any student competitions- & St Joseph's (Hunters Hill) only allows it for years 11-12.




2. I will put 5 further questions to you...hope again springs eternal.

a. The comments (linked post#303 above) in the SMH by R. Masters state that, due to demographic trends etc. occurring in pokie clubs, patronage & pokie revenues are declining.
This trend will have significant, negative financial effects on many NRL Clubs, & GR RL Clubs, in NSW & Qld.

Do you dispute this- if so, on what basis?

b. The introduction by the NSW LNP govt. of laws (post #286, which has achieved an Upper House majority agreement, due to Greens & One Nation support) to mandate all pokie players obtain a Pre-Commitment On Losses Card- with ID: otherwise, they cannot gamble in the cashless pokie dens.
These laws will very likely cause a significant reduction in pokie revenues & profits.

Do you dispute this- if so, on what basis?

c. This Pre-Commitment Card will cause a significant reduction in pokie revenues & profits- & will thus cause significant funding problems for NSW & QLD NRL clubs, & GR RL Clubs.
Do you dispute this- if so, on what basis?


d. The NSWRL, & the NRL, since poker machines were introduced into NSW c. 1956 (& QRL since 1992), have contributed (by their significant funding from poker machines) to massive financial misery/family breakups/domestic violence/mortgage house defaults etc.
And this misery etc. occurs most commonly to pokie addicts from lower socio-economic backgrounds- the main pokie demographic. See post# 286 above.

Do you dispute this- if so, on what basis?

e. Pokie dens have facilitated massive money laundering by criminal, & other drug, gangs (post# 286 above).

Do you dispute this- if so, on what basis?
 
Last edited:

Log in to remove this ad.

Gigantor

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2012
14,998
5,091
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Brumbies, Socceroos
It still doesnt have a real presence in the school system
Maybe.
Equally, I'd suggest the presence of Australian Football in the school system is not all that far off the presence of rugby league (in terms of number of teams, etc.)
 

Cdog71

Premium Platinum
Sep 21, 2017
3,041
7,441
AFL Club
Richmond
Yeh, but touch footy isn't rugby league.
That's exactly the point.
Sorry, I meant that junior sport in Queensland is more linked in to the school carnivals and through schools than the suburban type leagues in Vic.
When Aussie Rules gets a foothold in that system the base at grassroots will hopefully broaden
 

TWLS

Club Legend
Jul 19, 2015
1,107
380
WA
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
GWS Giants
that's right they do and good on them, its just in WA just one person owns all the pokies, that's probably even worse

just because a club has poker machines it doesn't stop clubs affiliated or even the club itself from doing all those sort of things you state and in fact i know it does happen

its not as though a club that has poker machines doesn't engage in other community minded activities to raise money
Very interesting comments. So in theory the pokie funding the clubs get is on top of everything else they do - So depending on what they get from gambling they should be quite wealthy. Of course smaller clubs less pokie funds but it also means less effort in fund raising to operate.
It would be hard to give up though if the new laws come in.
 

jatz14

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 13, 2011
7,607
8,678
WA
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Perth Glory W-League
Sorry, I meant that junior sport in Queensland is more linked in to the school carnivals and through schools than the suburban type leagues in Vic.
When Aussie Rules gets a foothold in that system the base at grassroots will hopefully broaden
AFL Queensland schools cup is huge.

Last year it was divided into 20 regions.

From AFL Queensland 2019.

AFL school competition participation grew a further 4% in 2018 to almost 50,000 participants, making the AFL school community in Queensland the third largest school participation base in the country behind only Victoria and Western Australia
 

youneverknow22

Senior List
Oct 9, 2020
207
313
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I feel like my opinion might mean something here. I'm a Queenslander who has no affiliation with Victoria. I don't have family there nor have I even traveled there. From my thoughts and experience, Queensland is far more receptive than NSW in terms of AFL. I grew up just as Brisbane started to decline, yet even then there was always a core community who followed the team while those who didn't only did so because the team became pretty embarrasing to follow. Brisbane will always follow an AFL team that is somewhat good, however, the lions were a laughing stock for far too long and people just couldn't invest themselves in a club that was going nowhere. Look at the Gold Coast suns. They're a team that has achieved no where near what GWS has achieved, but they will always draw a larger home crowd because people here actually like AFL, they just like NRL more. Whereas in NSW people seem to have some personal agenda against it. I don't think AFL will ever be more popular than NRL here, but it doesn't need to be. Being the Number 2 sport in Queensland is a huge achievement and I personally think it can become that here.
 

Gigantor

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2012
14,998
5,091
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Brumbies, Socceroos
I don't think AFL will ever be more popular than NRL here, but it doesn't need to be. Being the Number 2 sport in Queensland is a huge achievement and I personally think it can become that here.
I agree with you on this.
I was just curious, what is currently the number two sport in Queensland?
 

youneverknow22

Senior List
Oct 9, 2020
207
313
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I agree with you on this.
I was just curious, what is currently the number two sport in Queensland?
Traditionally, Rugby Union. However, Union has drizzled out lately here and I would even put it behind AFL

I would say the top 5 would be
1. NRL
2. Cricket.
3. AFL
4. Union
5. Soccer
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

BringBackTorps

Club Legend
Jan 5, 2017
2,203
1,348
AFL Club
GWS
1. RL podcast series has been made by L. Addison, originally a nthn. England RL coach, who has also coached elite RL jnrs in Aust.
On this 5.9.19 podcast, he is joined by experienced GR RL coach, M. Carbone; & experienced Qld. GR & elite coach. S. Peoples.

A. Johns, B. Fittler, P. Gallen, P. Gould, B. Slater, C. Smith, R. Masters (& P. Sterling, by implication) & other experts have stated there is insufficient depth in RL to expand to 17 teams. The skill of the average NRL player would decline to unacceptable levels, ratings will drop etc..
A. Johns said on WWOS in 2019 "Not enough kids playing League now, NRL should become a 12 team competition".



(Go to 5.9.19, then click on "Not Enough Talent, You're Kidding". Then go to 8 minutes 6 seconds- 8 mins. 55 secs;16 mins. 20 secs. - 19 mins.40 secs ; & 32 mins.40 secs- 36 mins.).)

L. Addison & M. Carbone, & S. Peoples state there is sufficient talent available for the NRL to expand to 17 teams- but recruitment strategies need to be amended by, paraphrasing:-

. start recruiting very skilful players, despite them being not overly athletic. Recruiters now only want elite athletes, who they believe they can convert to good RL players.

. recruiters generally want players at least 6 ft tall- but many shorter players are very skilful, & are not given a chance. They could become halves with proper training.

. there are many elite RU jnrs in Australia, who can be recruited to RL.

. elite players can be recruited, & trained to, eventually, become elite RL players, from NZ, Fiji, PNG, Samoa, Tonga- even elite & athletic RU players from USA, South Africa, Canada, Wales, France, & Argentina.

The podcast does not discuss why there has been a long term significant decline in GR male contact RL in Australia.

However, S. Peoples said there has been a big trend for very good junior players to transfer to another jnr RL Club, to play in a higher division. Loyalty by players is declining in jnr RL teams. "There is a ripple effect on remaining players in the team...there is a struggle to fill a team in every age group".

(I assume he means the remaining players become demoralised, their team becomes less competitive/more floggings, causing many to quit).



2. The NRL is introducing new jnr RL procedures in 2020, the biggest changes to the game in 30 years, since mini & mod were introduced.
The changes are designed to attract more kids, & their parents, to RL.

RL blogger T. Smith is not happy with all these changes, & he said

"...it will be the death of the game, especially in our strongholds areas- for example the western Sydney...Tag rugby league isn't rugby league. If parents wanted their children to play tag rugby league, they would sign them up to play Oztag".

There is no tackling now in jnr RL for U6-U7 players. U8-U9 comp. players apply the "Tackle Safe" Rule (like Auskick's bearhug ?)


I am very surprised the new procedures from 2020 have U6-U7 comps. of 10 weeks duration only (no Finals); U8-U12 only have 12 week seasons (no Finals); U13-U18 12-16 weeks (+ Finals).
IMO, having comp. seasons less then 14 weeks (not inc. Finals) will hurt the progress of jnr RL- & future elite recruitment. 10-12 weeks is much too short.
 
Last edited:

BringBackTorps

Club Legend
Jan 5, 2017
2,203
1,348
AFL Club
GWS
1.
Look at the Gold Coast suns. They're a team that has achieved no where near what GWS has achieved, but they will always draw a larger home crowd because people here actually like AFL, they just like NRL more. Whereas in NSW people seem to have some personal agenda against it.
I disagree. GWS has far more members (30,000+) than GCFC, & has been attracting many larger home crowds in recent years. Swans had 60,000+ members, average crowds c. 34,000+.

In Sydney, GR jnr AF, generally, has far more support in middle class/affluent areas- predominantly from anglo/celtic background persons. Mainly in Sydney's NS, ES, & inner WS.
GR jnr & Auskick club nos. have more than doubled since 2012 in Sydney's WS- thus GWS' has been very successful in promoting AF in Sydney's middle & outer WS, where there are c. 50% of people from non anglo-celtic backgrounds.

Two questions for you (if you have had some direct involvement with GR AF)
From your anecdotal observations, does class & ethnicity have similar correlations, re support for AF in Qld?

Until 2017, Qld. had, amazingly, more female AF comp. players than Victoria- despite being a RL state, with a smaller population. Qld. AF female comp. nos. are still very strong, but Vic. now has more.
Why do you think Qld. has such large nos. of female AF comp. (Club & school) players?








EDIT:

2. news.com

An unlikely alliance has formed between the Greens & One Nation- both suppor new LNP laws to severely curtail poker machine patronage.

"Labor has said it wants a private briefing from Mr Dominello before the Party commits to a position on the changes".


Severely reducing poker machine patronage will have significant, negative effects on the NRL, & many GR RL Clubs, in NSW & Qld.

Former Labor Premier W. Goss introduced the vile pokie machines into Qld. in 1992.
After retirement, he later stated that the pokie introduction was his "biggest regret", & described them as "a scourge".

A big majority of machines are, disgustingly, concentrated in lower income areas of cities, & regions- where pokie addicts are vastly overrepresented, cf addicts from more affluent areas. This causes much misery to themselves, & their families etc.
Over 40% of all pokie losses are attributed to problem gamblers.



3. abc.net 25.9.20

"Family members of problem gamblers could apply to have their relatives banned from gaming venues..."

"venues could be fined $27,500..".

" Australia has the highest level of per capita gambling losses in the world"

"Poker machine attendants...have seen problem gamblers urinate at poker machines...".

 
Last edited:

jatz14

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 13, 2011
7,607
8,678
WA
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Perth Glory W-League
Once in lifetime opportunity in Queensland missed with lions going down
Unless they get there next year, which would make it a twice in a lifetime opportunity.
Of course, its a young list, so every chance it becomes a thrice in a lifetime opportunity.

On the other hand, I was alive for the Lions threepeat, so that would be a sextuplet in a lifetime opportunity?
 

Holden Hillbilly

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 8, 2004
11,876
13,886
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Liverpool, St. Pauls Old Scholars
AFL SMASHES NRL:

It was a very busy weekend of sport, with Seven Network’s television coverage of the AFL smashing Nine’s NRL offering and Ten’s Supercars.
Seven’s extensive coverage of the second AFL preliminary final match on Saturday night was the most popular show on commercial free-to-air TV, taking four of the top 10 rating spots across the five capital cities around the country.

The broadcaster’s coverage of the AFL game between Brisbane and Geelong on Saturday was the most popular show on commercial free-to-air TV with 1.146m viewers across the five capital cities.

Seven’s prematch coverage of the match took fourth and 10th spots, with 748,000 and 322,000 metro viewers, respectively. Its post-match coverage was watched by 573,000 viewers, taking 6th spot on the TV ratings metro table.

Nine’s coverage of the NRL preliminary final, which saw Penrith Panthers beat South Sydney Rabbitohs, attracted a metro TV audience of 495,000 on Saturday night, taking seventh spot.

In eighth spot on the ratings table on Saturday was Ten’s coverage of the Supercars Championship in Bathurst with 419,000 metro viewers.
 

threenewpadlocks

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 10, 2012
10,900
13,861
Melbourne
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
I disagree. GWS has far more members (30,000+) than GCFC, & has been attracting many larger home crowds in recent years. Swans had 60,000+ members, average crowds c. 34,000+.
GWS has more members because they capture genuine Canberran footy fans who want to go to all the games in Canberra (may or may not be Giants fans).
Also, the divergence of results is the reason for a difference in crowds. We are talking about a Suns team that has never made finals. I think if you equalise both teams to an average level of on-field success, Suns crowds would be bigger.
 

Johnny Bananas

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 10, 2010
5,838
6,846
A sugar refinery
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Two questions for you (if you have had some direct involvement with GR AF)
From your anecdotal observations, does class & ethnicity have similar correlations, re support for AF in Qld?
Class no, ethnicity yes. I've seen rich and poor alike following Australian rules here. But I see a very large number of Islander people following league, and almost none following Australian rules.

I disagree. GWS has far more members (30,000+) than GCFC, & has been attracting many larger home crowds in recent years.
Well that's no surprise when GWS has been a perpetual contender and GC has been a perpetual basket case. But GC has a footballing heritage that GWS doesn't have to the same extent (strong second tier clubs like Southport and PBC, top prospects before AFL entry like Ashcroft and Nick Riewoldt). There's a latent support for Australian rules on the Gold Coast that will only be realised when their team isn't an embarrassment and the ground isn't an absolute pain to get to.
 
Last edited:

Johnny Bananas

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 10, 2010
5,838
6,846
A sugar refinery
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions

BringBackTorps

Club Legend
Jan 5, 2017
2,203
1,348
AFL Club
GWS
1. It is very pleasing to read in the abc link that such good AF GR growth has occurred in Qld. in 2020- & similar strong growth is expected next year.

The "13,000 juniors", referred to in the abc link above, are for the Gold Coast-Brisbane-Sunshine Coast corridor only- for kids 8 y.o-17 y.o. The 13,000 does not include the many thousands of kids 5 y.o-8 y.o in Club Auskick.
If all of Qld. was included, there would be many more Club jnrs than 13,000.




2. The Australian C. Walsh 23.10

G. McLachlan said 23.10

"...the industry loss between the Clubs & the AFL will be something under $100m. It will be significantly lower...".

(Go to Sports industry tweet 24.10- then click on The Australian. C. Walsh).

The AFL has survived season 2020 in suprisingly good financial health, after initially faring it could be far worse.
The $100m "loss" referred to by McLachlan is a loss of $100m of revenues only- not an actual net loss of $100m (as he referred earlier to fearing a "...hole of $965m..."- obviously not a net loss also).

It remains to be seen how the NRL will fare financially for 2020, & in future years.

This "relatively" good financial position of the AFL suggests it is in a good financial position to continue to promote AF heavily in Qld. & NSW in future years.

The AFL would gain confidence by outrating the NRL in Brisbane for the last 2 weeks of AFL Finals, cf Brisbane viewers watching NRL Finals. Of course, if there were Qld. teams in the NRL Finals, this AFL outperformance in Brisbane would not have occured.
 
Last edited:

BringBackTorps

Club Legend
Jan 5, 2017
2,203
1,348
AFL Club
GWS
SEN 24.10

SEN said

" Cochrane urged 'loud mouth' V'landys to look at the AFL's growth in Qld. this year".

T. Cochrane GCFC Chairman said, re Brisbane AFL ratings in 2020, cf NRL

"We've consistently beaten the NRL by 15-20% this year when we've been up against each other on TV".

 

BringBackTorps

Club Legend
Jan 5, 2017
2,203
1,348
AFL Club
GWS
1. SMH D. Bossi 26.10

Not only are A League ratings collapsing to abysmal levels, & crowds in a serious decline, some Clubs may fold due to financial problems.
The financial situation is so bad that some A League Clubs have decided to financially support other clubs, so that they can continue to be part of the A League.
(The A League has lost all its major sponsors- AFAIK, none have been replaced).


2. Newcastle, & other clubs, are in jeopardy.


The Socceroos' Golden Generation has not been replaced, & Australia has slipped to c. 40 in world ratings (from c. 21 after 2006). Matildas also declined to c. 8th.

CCM, Perth, & Adelaide have been questioned recently by some MSM soccer experts, re their financial viability. WU's long term viability has also attracted concerns.

AFAIK, no other fully privately owned, fully professional sports' league in the world has a similar financial commitment by private owners of some Clubs to save other destitute pro Clubs in their own league.


3. NSW is, by FAR, the home of soccer in Aust.- in GR club comp. nos., & fan support for the A League. Qld. also has very strong soccer GR nos.
GR soccer in NSW, ACT, & Qld. has steamrolled GR male RL & RU contact nos.- RL & RU have been unable to defend their male contact nos., they are being smashed.
In contrast, GR AF nos. are growing strongly in NSW, ACT, & Qld.

There is no proven, direct correlation between the health of the A League, & GR soccer comp. nos. One can assume, however, that a floundering A League will have a negative effect on general soccer support, & probably player nos. (particularly for 5- 12 y.o.'s- which is the biggest AF growth demographic in NSW, ACT, & Qld.).
GR AF is likely to be the biggest beneficiary of the A League's decline in NSW, ACT, & Qld., cf GR RL & RU.

It is also possible that, over the medium to long term, a floundering, increasingly unpopular A League may increase support for the AFL comp. itself in NSW, ACT, & Qld., particularly amongst young kids.
(Ditto the NRL comp. itself may benefit; not sure if many primarily soccer fans, of a non anglo-celtic background, would follow Super Rugby etc., but possibly might develop an interest in the Wallabies).
 
Last edited:

Remove this Banner Ad

Top Bottom