What are the chances of Footy overtaking league in NSW and Queensland?

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BringBackTorps

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Jan 5, 2017
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1.
Afl will never approach participation numbers of soccer [Lie] or fan interest of Rugby League or even Wallabies [Never say never! Many factors involved- & see the pro-AFL trends] in Sydney.
Another lie from you. In 2019, the AFL's Official regd. participation nos. were c. 1.716m, & the FFA's 2019 Official regd. participant nos. were c. 1.95m.
Since the FFA includes volunteers, referees, & coaches in its Official Regd. total "participant" nos., & the AFL doesn't, both sports' player participant nos. are very close.
(Of course, like all sports, both figures are rubbery- a big majority of "participants" are irrelevant one-off activities, Gala Days, brief school phys. ed soccer & AF skill-related exercise programs, community events etc. ie not real club & school comp. players).

The AFL very rarely even states its volunteer nos., let alone counts them as "participants".
The last mention, AFAIK, was in the 2008 Annual Report, when it said there were c.100,000 GR Volunteers in Aust.

Interest in AF is growing in NSW, ACT, & Qld- demonstrated by its significant growth in GR participant nos.; & improving NSW, ACT, & Qld Clubs' membership nos., crowds, & ratings. The NRL certainly has far more fans now- but the ascendancy, cf the AFL, is slowly declining.

Interest in RU is plummeting in NSW, ACT, & Qld. in all metrics (excluding GR female contact RU nos.).

General fan interest in the NRL, & its male GR contact RL nos., is almost certainly being hurt by its regular scandals. Broadcasters & sponsors would also be unhappy with the regular scandals, with negative effects for the NRL. Do you continue to dispute this?
The AFL also certainly has many scandals, but FAR less than the NRL.

You constantly deny that GR AF nos., & general popularity of AF, are growing strongly in NSW, ACT, & Qld; & that male GR contact RL & RU nos. are in a long term significant decline.
I have asked you c. 10 times to reply to the many questions & evidence I have put to you directly on these issues (as per my posts above #210 212 327; & in the "Sydney 3rd Team" thread posts #1722 1789 1917 1978 1995 3176 3278- with also a total c. 60 links supporting my above 2 claims).
You continuously have refused to do so. Why?




2. news.com L. Kinsella 8.2.19

L. Kinsella wrote there were, from 2015- 7.2.19, 66 well-publicised off-field scandals (some involving multiple players in each incident) by players who were currently in the NRL.
Most scandals related to alleged common assault (of both men & women), sexual assault, domestic violence, illicit drug use, drink driving, performance-enhancing drug use, sexual harassment of women, simulated sex with a dog (M. Pearce feeling amorous) etc.

Kinsella, agreeing with SMH's NRL writer A. Webster & many other MSM experts, said

"Certainly, the frequency of which the NRL is associated with drugs, assault, & domestic violence remains a problem for the game & its fans".

"The frequency of these scandals encourages the idea rugby league is a game played by thugs & boofheads", even though "...the overwhelming majority of players stay out of trouble".

This is Kinsella's detailed list of the 66 scandals, with a brief description of each
(From 8.2.19- 28.12.2020, there have been a further at least 10 different scandals involving NRL players, not detailed in this list below).



Daily Mail & Daily Telegraph P. Ahillon 3.5.19

Ahillon wrote

"Major broadcasters Nine & News Ltd told NRL CEO T. Greenberg the charges against De Belin had the potential to drag down the value of future TV deals".

The continuing flood of NRL player off-field scandals are causing the NRL to lose sponsorships- estimated at c. $10m+ for the scandals occuring over the 2018/2019 off-season only.



Ad News 1.6.20 C. Pash

Pash said, after the post-covid 28.5.20 Force Majeure new, much lower NRL Rights' deals

"Nine & Foxtel have made substantial savings in a new broadcast Rights deal with the NRL".

"Analysts at Credit Suisse say the savings for Nine in the 2020 calendar year amount to about $66m...Nine expects to see a benefit of $27.5m a year for the financial years 2021 & 2022....UBS...says its forecasts show Nine achieving its FTA cost-cutting target of $150m over 3 years".

In contrast to the big cuts the NRL experienced in its 28.5.20 new deals (Foxtel extends to 2027), the AFL achieved a record deal from Foxtel, Seven, & Telstra for 2023-24- $473m pa.. (This was despite many MSM experts saying all sports, all around the world, will experience cuts in their Rights, due to the recession, falling ratings, more advertisers moving to social media etc.).

This record deal for the AFL will greatly assist its promotional efforts/increase its market share in NSW, ACT, & Qld. The AFL & GR AF will, undeniably, increase its position against all other sports there.
 
Last edited:

jatz14

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All soccer needs to do is ban heading at the youth level they've already done this in the USA - afl has to ban tackling
No, it has to ban heading, full stop, banning just kids doing it is a stop gap measure.. And you dont tackle the head, so its hard to see why tackling would be banned. Blows to the head from tackles are an accident, and against the rules, or deliberate, and against the rules, and an offence. Heading is written into the rules of the sport.
 

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jatz14

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Another lie from you. In 2019, the AFL's Official regd. participation nos. were c. 1.716m, & the FFA's 2019 Official regd. participant nos. were c. 1.95m.
Since the FFA includes volunteers, referees, & coaches in its Official Regd. total "participant" nos., & the AFL doesn't, both sports' player participant nos. are very close.
(Of course all these figures are rubbery- a big majority are irrelevant one-of activities, community events etc. ie not real club & school comp. players).

The AFL very rarely even states its volunteer nos., let alone includes them as "participants".
The last mention, AFAIK, was in the 2008 Annual Report, when it said there were c.100,000 GR Volunteers in Aust.

Interest in AF is growing in NSW, ACT, & Qld- demonstrated by its significant growth in GR participant nos.; & improving NSW, ACT, & Qld Clubs' membership nos., crowds, & ratings. The NRL certainly has far more fans now- but the ascendancy, cf the AFL, is slowly declining.

Interest in RU is plummeting in NSW, ACT, & Qld. in all metrics (excluding GR female contact RU nos.).

General fan interest in the NRL, & its male GR contact RL nos., is almost certainly being hurt by its regular scandals. Broadcasters & sponsors would also be unhappy with the regular scandals, with negative effects for the NRL. Do you continue to dispute this?
The AFL also certainly has many scandals, but FAR less than the NRL.

You constantly deny that GR AF nos., & general popularity of AF, are growing strongly in NSW, ACT, & Qld; & that male GR contact RL & RU nos. are in a long term significant decline.
I have asked you c. 10 times (with c. a total 60 links supporting my above 2 claims) to reply to my many questions I have put to you on these issues- but you refuse to do so. Why?




2. news.com L. Kinsella 8.2.19

L. Kinsella wrote there were, from 2015- 7.2.19, 66 well-publicised off-field scandals (some involving multiple players in each incident) by players who were currently in the NRL.
Most scandals related to alleged common assault (of both men & women), sexual assault, domestic violence, illicit drug use, drink driving, performance-enhancing drug use, harassment of women, simulated sex (M. Pearce) with a dog etc.

Kinsella, agreeing with many other MSM experts, said

"Certainly, the frequency of which the NRL is associated with drugs, assault, & domestic violence remains a problem for the game & its fans".

"The frequency of these scandals encourages the idea rugby league is a game played by thugs & boofheads", even though "...the overwhelming majority of players stay out of trouble".

This is Kinsella's detailed list of the 66 scandals, with a brief description of each
(From 8.2.19- 24.12.2020, there have been a further at least 10 different scandals involving NRL players, not detailed in this list below).



Daily Mail & Daily Telegraph P. Ahillon 3.5.19

Ahillon wrote

"Major broadcasters Nine & News Ltd told NRL CEO T. Greenberg the charges against De Belin had the potential to drag down the value of future TV deals".

The regular NRL player of-field scandals are causing the NRL to lose sponsorships- estimated at c. $10m for the scandals occuring over the 2018/2019 off-season only.



Ad News 1.6.20 C. Pash

Pash said, after the post-covid 28.5.20 Force Majeure new, lower Rights' deal

"Nine & Foxtel have made substantial savings in a new broadcast Rights deal with the NRL".

"Analysts at Credit Suisse say the saving for Nine in the 2020 calendar year amount to about $66m...Nine expects to see a benefit of $27.5m a year for the financial years 2021 & 2022....UBS...says its forecasts show Nine achieving its FTA cost-cutting target of $150m over 3 years".

In contrast to the big cuts the NRL experienced in its 28.5.20 new deals (Foxtel extends to 2027), the AFL achieved a record deal from Foxtel, Seven, & Telstra for 2023-24- $473m pa. (This was despite many MSM experts saying all sports around the world will experience cuts in their Rights, due to the recession, falling ratings etc.).

This record deal for the AFL will assist its promotional efforts/increase its market share in NSW, ACT, & Qld. The AFL & GR AF will, undeniably, increase its position against all other sports there.
To cut to the nitty gritty, and the best and most direct comparison possible.

Grass roots, registered club players. Junior (but not pee wee, eg Auskick or miniroos), and senior, club numbers.

No volunteers, no schools, no officials, no "promotional experiences". Pay your fees, go to training, rock up at the weekend, pull on your boots, play a genuine game, in a registered official comp.



Soccer 2019: 304200
Footy 2018: 386924

Oooh, thats gunna leave a mark.

And if it seems odd that the FFA can get to its quoted participation numbers, when it has less club players than footy. Look no further than "Community Events and promotional experiences" 544700
 

Pippen94

Club Legend
Jun 12, 2019
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No, it has to ban heading, full stop, banning just kids doing it is a stop gap measure.. And you dont tackle the head, so its hard to see why tackling would be banned. Blows to the head from tackles are an accident, and against the rules, or deliberate, and against the rules, and an offence. Heading is written into the rules of the sport.
High tackles banned long ago but due to nature of afl head clashes still happen. Any sport where you can grab opponent & throw them to ground is just dangerous
 

Pippen94

Club Legend
Jun 12, 2019
1,063
275
AFL Club
Sydney
1.
Another lie from you. In 2019, the AFL's Official regd. participation nos. were c. 1.716m, & the FFA's 2019 Official regd. participant nos. were c. 1.95m.
Since the FFA includes volunteers, referees, & coaches in its Official Regd. total "participant" nos., & the AFL doesn't, both sports' player participant nos. are very close.
(Of course, like all sports, both figures are rubbery- a big majority of "participants" are irrelevant one-off activities, Gala Days, brief school phys. ed soccer & AF skill-related exercise programs, community events etc. ie not real club & school comp. players).

The AFL very rarely even states its volunteer nos., let alone counts them as "participants".
The last mention, AFAIK, was in the 2008 Annual Report, when it said there were c.100,000 GR Volunteers in Aust.

Interest in AF is growing in NSW, ACT, & Qld- demonstrated by its significant growth in GR participant nos.; & improving NSW, ACT, & Qld Clubs' membership nos., crowds, & ratings. The NRL certainly has far more fans now- but the ascendancy, cf the AFL, is slowly declining.

Interest in RU is plummeting in NSW, ACT, & Qld. in all metrics (excluding GR female contact RU nos.).

General fan interest in the NRL, & its male GR contact RL nos., is almost certainly being hurt by its regular scandals. Broadcasters & sponsors would also be unhappy with the regular scandals, with negative effects for the NRL. Do you continue to dispute this?
The AFL also certainly has many scandals, but FAR less than the NRL.

You constantly deny that GR AF nos., & general popularity of AF, are growing strongly in NSW, ACT, & Qld; & that male GR contact RL & RU nos. are in a long term significant decline.
I have asked you c. 10 times to reply to the many questions & rebuttals I have put to you directly on these issues (as per my posts above #210 212 327; & in the "Sydney 3rd Team" thread posts #1722 1789 1917 1978 1995 3176 3278- with also a total c. 60 links supporting my above 2 claims).
You continuously have refused to do so. Why?




2. news.com L. Kinsella 8.2.19

L. Kinsella wrote there were, from 2015- 7.2.19, 66 well-publicised off-field scandals (some involving multiple players in each incident) by players who were currently in the NRL.
Most scandals related to alleged common assault (of both men & women), sexual assault, domestic violence, illicit drug use, drink driving, performance-enhancing drug use, sexual harassment of women, simulated sex with a dog (M. Pearce feeling amorous) etc.

Kinsella, agreeing with many other MSM experts, said

"Certainly, the frequency of which the NRL is associated with drugs, assault, & domestic violence remains a problem for the game & its fans".

"The frequency of these scandals encourages the idea rugby league is a game played by thugs & boofheads", even though "...the overwhelming majority of players stay out of trouble".

This is Kinsella's detailed list of the 66 scandals, with a brief description of each
(From 8.2.19- 28.12.2020, there have been a further at least 10 different scandals involving NRL players, not detailed in this list below).



Daily Mail & Daily Telegraph P. Ahillon 3.5.19

Ahillon wrote

"Major broadcasters Nine & News Ltd told NRL CEO T. Greenberg the charges against De Belin had the potential to drag down the value of future TV deals".

The continuing flood of NRL player off-field scandals are causing the NRL to lose sponsorships- estimated at c. $10m+ for the scandals occuring over the 2018/2019 off-season only.



Ad News 1.6.20 C. Pash

Pash said, after the post-covid 28.5.20 Force Majeure new, much lower NRL Rights' deals

"Nine & Foxtel have made substantial savings in a new broadcast Rights deal with the NRL".

"Analysts at Credit Suisse say the savings for Nine in the 2020 calendar year amount to about $66m...Nine expects to see a benefit of $27.5m a year for the financial years 2021 & 2022....UBS...says its forecasts show Nine achieving its FTA cost-cutting target of $150m over 3 years".

In contrast to the big cuts the NRL experienced in its 28.5.20 new deals (Foxtel extends to 2027), the AFL achieved a record deal from Foxtel, Seven, & Telstra for 2023-24- $473m pa.. (This was despite many MSM experts saying all sports, all around the world, will experience cuts in their Rights, due to the recession, falling ratings etc.).

This record deal for the AFL will greatly assist its promotional efforts/increase its market share in NSW, ACT, & Qld. The AFL & GR AF will, undeniably, increase its position against all other sports there.
If you think 1.716m ppl are playing sport I have swamp land to sell you​
 

jatz14

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 13, 2011
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If you think 1.716m ppl are playing sport I have swamp land to sell you​
There is a huge discrepancy between participation numbers and club players, which is what most people think off when discussing participation.

In the case of AFL, its about a 4.5 fold difference.

But for Soccer, it is larger, its pushing 6 fold.

I understand why sports do it, it pushes a positive 'growth' spin on the sport. Kids want to play the cool sport, if they think everyone is playing your sport, maybe they jump on board. Biggest reason is it gives nice big numbers to put in blurbs to put in front of sports ministers to justify your next grant, stadium, facility request etc.

But for Soccer in particular, its come at a cost, as its pretty clear almost everybody in the sport bought it. EVERYBODY is playing Soccer, so just you wait, in a few years, the juggernaut will take over. Just a few more years now, all those kids playing soccer will grow up, and soccer will be king. Any day now. Smell the fear.

But it doesn't take much looking at the figures to figure out why this never happened. Club player numbers are good, but not a soccer tsunami that it was portrayed as. Most of the numbers come from schools programs and promotional or social events. If you ignore the inevitable double counting, what you are left with is a very large number of people that play in school, or take part in social/promotional events, that do not, and possibly never have been, involved in junior or senior soccer. So, how much a football fan are they?

AFL has the same issue, but is already better positioned, as has generational support to fall back on. The discrepancy means less.
For soccer, that seems to have built its strategy on, believed in, and relied on, a growing wave of football fans sweeping the nation as proved by participation numbers, the discrepancy is disastrous.

Rule 1 of propaganda, never forget its propaganda.
 

Gigantor

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Soccer has been the biggest participation sport in NSW for over 100 years now.
What has it meant?
Well, the national governing body is based here, it has produced more than its fair share of socceroos, it has five professional clubs (barely), but all those clubs continue to struggle for support and revenue, as they always have.
In other words, at the professional level, it has never meant anything, and continues to mean nothing.
At a guess, I'd say the two AFL clubs in NSW would earn more combined revenue than the five A-League clubs combined.
 

NoobPie

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Sep 21, 2016
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There is a huge discrepancy between participation numbers and club players, which is what most people think off when discussing participation.

In the case of AFL, its about a 4.5 fold difference.

But for Soccer, it is larger, its pushing 6 fold.

I understand why sports do it, it pushes a positive 'growth' spin on the sport. Kids want to play the cool sport, if they think everyone is playing your sport, maybe they jump on board. Biggest reason is it gives nice big numbers to put in blurbs to put in front of sports ministers to justify your next grant, stadium, facility request etc.

But for Soccer in particular, its come at a cost, as its pretty clear almost everybody in the sport bought it. EVERYBODY is playing Soccer, so just you wait, in a few years, the juggernaut will take over. Just a few more years now, all those kids playing soccer will grow up, and soccer will be king. Any day now. Smell the fear.

But it doesn't take much looking at the figures to figure out why this never happened. Club player numbers are good, but not a soccer tsunami that it was portrayed as. Most of the numbers come from schools programs and promotional or social events. If you ignore the inevitable double counting, what you are left with is a very large number of people that play in school, or take part in social/promotional events, that do not, and possibly never have been, involved in junior or senior soccer. So, how much a football fan are they?

AFL has the same issue, but is already better positioned, as has generational support to fall back on. The discrepancy means less.
For soccer, that seems to have built its strategy on, believed in, and relied on, a growing wave of football fans sweeping the nation as proved by participation numbers, the discrepancy is disastrous.

Rule 1 of propaganda, never forget its propaganda.

Too true! Sometimes these 2 million participants come with an adjective like "football mad" or something to that effect

The other side of the delusion is in the conviction that this "big wave" is being suppressed by a grand media conspiracy acting against their own commercial interests

Good for a laugh.

Speaking of good for a laugh, this one is on to its 8th lap of the sun :D

 

Pippen94

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Jun 12, 2019
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There is a huge discrepancy between participation numbers and club players, which is what most people think off when discussing participation.

In the case of AFL, its about a 4.5 fold difference.

But for Soccer, it is larger, its pushing 6 fold.

I understand why sports do it, it pushes a positive 'growth' spin on the sport. Kids want to play the cool sport, if they think everyone is playing your sport, maybe they jump on board. Biggest reason is it gives nice big numbers to put in blurbs to put in front of sports ministers to justify your next grant, stadium, facility request etc.

But for Soccer in particular, its come at a cost, as its pretty clear almost everybody in the sport bought it. EVERYBODY is playing Soccer, so just you wait, in a few years, the juggernaut will take over. Just a few more years now, all those kids playing soccer will grow up, and soccer will be king. Any day now. Smell the fear.

But it doesn't take much looking at the figures to figure out why this never happened. Club player numbers are good, but not a soccer tsunami that it was portrayed as. Most of the numbers come from schools programs and promotional or social events. If you ignore the inevitable double counting, what you are left with is a very large number of people that play in school, or take part in social/promotional events, that do not, and possibly never have been, involved in junior or senior soccer. So, how much a football fan are they?

AFL has the same issue, but is already better positioned, as has generational support to fall back on. The discrepancy means less.
For soccer, that seems to have built its strategy on, believed in, and relied on, a growing wave of football fans sweeping the nation as proved by participation numbers, the discrepancy is disastrous.

Rule 1 of propaganda, never forget its propaganda.
The thing is there's a lot more social games of soccer going on than afl. There are courts & fields around me & every day there's a regular informal game going on. Can't do that with afl - ppl don't play contact sport as casual pick up.

That's why I especially don't trust afl numbers; there's a certain age you can't play contact sports where as soccer & touch players can keep going to their 60s maybe older.

Nearly two million ppl from population of 25 playing dangerous contact sport on regular basis doesn't make sense
 

Our Game

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Soccer has been the biggest participation sport in NSW for over 100 years now.
What has it meant?
Well, the national governing body is based here, it has produced more than its fair share of socceroos, it has five professional clubs (barely), but all those clubs continue to struggle for support and revenue, as they always have.
In other words, at the professional level, it has never meant anything, and continues to mean nothing.
At a guess, I'd say the two AFL clubs in NSW would earn more combined revenue than the five A-League clubs combined.
Yep that has always been soccer's biggest problem even with the massive UK and European migration after WW2 many of whom followed or played soccer in their home countries - that the large numbers of junior players not only in NSW but all around the nation don't translate into senior players or even club supporters!
 

Our Game

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The thing is there's a lot more social games of soccer going on than afl. There are courts & fields around me & every day there's a regular informal game going on. Can't do that with afl - ppl don't play contact sport as casual pick up.

That's why I especially don't trust afl numbers; there's a certain age you can't play contact sports where as soccer & touch players can keep going to their 60s maybe older.

Nearly two million ppl from population of 25 playing dangerous contact sport on regular basis doesn't make sense
So why doesn't this translate into big crowds at A League matches and massive TV ratings?
 

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The_Wookie

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The thing is there's a lot more social games of soccer going on than afl. There are courts & fields around me & every day there's a regular informal game going on. Can't do that with afl - ppl don't play contact sport as casual pick up.

That's why I especially don't trust afl numbers; there's a certain age you can't play contact sports where as soccer & touch players can keep going to their 60s maybe older.

Nearly two million ppl from population of 25 playing dangerous contact sport on regular basis doesn't make sense
country leagues - not to mention the masters competitions - have some surprisingly old players. You dont know what you're talking about.
 

Pippen94

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country leagues - not to mention the masters competitions - have some surprisingly old players. You dont know what you're talking about.
There's nowhere near the number of social & casual games - when's the last you saw a group of guys get together & play a full contact game??
Happens with soccer or touch in every park across city
 

Pippen94

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Yep that has always been soccer's biggest problem even with the massive UK and European migration after WW2 many of whom followed or played soccer in their home countries - that the large numbers of junior players not only in NSW but all around the nation don't translate into senior players or even club supporters!
Other games have had headstart. Soccer took over top played sport only in 1990's.
 

NoobPie

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Headstart? How so? Football has been in Australia over a century as well hasn’t it?

Depends on what you are arguing about

Soccer is on exponential, unstoppable growth? Then barely anyone cared about or played soccer until very recently

Soccer does not have as deep and historic cultural resonance in Australia? Bullhsyt has been around for as long as Aussie rules and all the Anzacs were soccer players
 

Pippen94

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and before that it was Netball. And we all know just how big Netball is professionally right?

Not to mention Soccer has been around in Australia since the 1890s, had the first national competition of any football code....
NRL started in 1908 & afl in 1996 & have been dominent in respective states since. First national comp for soccer was 1977 but if you want to get technical Perth didn't join till 1990's. With exception of Canberra in first year & towards end of 90's with Breakers & Glory all team were ethnic & didn't represent broader community - that's only happened since 2005. To act like these codes have had same footing is bullshit
 

General Giant

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NRL started in 1908 & afl in 1996 & have been dominent in respective states since. First national comp for soccer was 1977 but if you want to get technical Perth didn't join till 1990's. With exception of Canberra in first year & towards end of 90's with Breakers & Glory all team were ethnic & didn't represent broader community - that's only happened since 2005. To act like these codes have had same footing is bullshit
NRL didn’t become national until the 80s (by getting Canberra) then bigger with Brisbane, Gold Coast Newcastle in 88, not 1908.
Interesting you say the NRL started in 1908 yet don’t say the AFL started back earlier than 1996.
Hell Football even brag about having the 1st national competition. So it’s weird but not surprising you disregard it as it doesn’t fit your “woe is soccer” argument
 
Last edited:

jatz14

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The thing is there's a lot more social games of soccer going on than afl. There are courts & fields around me & every day there's a regular informal game going on. Can't do that with afl - ppl don't play contact sport as casual pick up.

That's why I especially don't trust afl numbers; there's a certain age you can't play contact sports where as soccer & touch players can keep going to their 60s maybe older.

Nearly two million ppl from population of 25 playing dangerous contact sport on regular basis doesn't make sense
I still play, and I'm mid 50s, and it isn't touch. Old people playing tackle footy has been a growth area for years.

I do however agree that soccer has more social games as it's easier and safer.

But I think this means the opposite in terms of the future of the sport, than you think it does.

A guy I play old man footy with has a sports mad and competitive daughter, always at the footy club, but she played soccer (no girls footy teams). She made state junior squads etc.

When female footy started, she didn't want to play because she loved soccer. She is now captain of the premier footy team. She switched because she got tired of busting her arse playing soccer, when half the players on the field regarded it as social sport, never tried, and never cared if they won or lost.

I have a long held theory.

Soccer has high participation in this country, because it's seen as easy.

It has a much higher percentage of people play in social settings. It has a higher drop of after younger age groups, because it's one of the premier sports for people not that into sports, to play.

If little Johnny doesn't care about sports, isn't athletic or coordinated, and isn't from a "sports" family, but parents think he should mix, and get exercise, they are much more likely to take him to soccer, than footy or league.

That footy is harder to play, and harder to organise social games for, then those that do play tend to be more serious about it. Older unfit guys playing soccer seem more likely to keep playing in lower grades, as they get older, where footy players are more likely to retire totally.

And yet, there are more club players in footy.

Imop, the number of people playing footy, that take it seriously, that play to win and train to win, is MUCH higher in footy, than in soccer. And these people are much more likely to be committed fans and supporters.

My youngest son played soccer until he was 18. But he isn't really into sport. He doesn't watch or follow the A league, or any other leagues (or sports for that matter). Last world cup, he would start watching a game he said he was looking forward to, and without fail, by half time, he was on the play station.

I think soccer is full of people like him.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

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