What are the chances of Footy overtaking league in NSW and Queensland?

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Pippen94

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I still play, and I'm mid 50s, and it isn't touch. Old people playing tackle footy has been a growth area for years.

I do however agree that soccer has more social games as it's easier and safer.

But I think this means the opposite in terms of the future of the sport, than you think it does.

A guy I play old man footy with has a sports mad and competitive daughter, always at the footy club, but she played soccer (no girls footy teams). She made state junior squads etc.

When female footy started, she didn't want to play because she loved soccer. She is now captain of the premier footy team. She switched because she got tired of busting her arse playing soccer, when half the players on the field regarded it as social sport, never tried, and never cared if they won or lost.

I have a long held theory.

Soccer has high participation in this country, because it's seen as easy.

It has a much higher percentage of people play in social settings. It has a higher drop of after younger age groups, because it's one of the premier sports for people not that into sports, to play.

If little Johnny doesn't care about sports, isn't athletic or coordinated, and isn't from a "sports" family, but parents think he should mix, and get exercise, they are much more likely to take him to soccer, than footy or league.

That footy is harder to play, and harder to organise social games for, then those that do play tend to be more serious about it. Older unfit guys playing soccer seem more likely to keep playing in lower grades, as they get older, where footy players are more likely to retire totally.

And yet, there are more club players in footy.

Imop, the number of people playing footy, that take it seriously, that play to win and train to win, is MUCH higher in footy, than in soccer. And these people are much more likely to be committed fans and supporters.

My youngest son played soccer until he was 18. But he isn't really into sport. He doesn't watch or follow the A league, or any other leagues (or sports for that matter). Last world cup, he would start watching a game he said he was looking forward to, and without fail, by half time, he was on the play station.

I think soccer is full of people like him.

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Fair enough but I disagree. In the last few years we've seen changes to address head injuries in all sports. Previously when a cricket player was hit they'd bat on but now we see concussion protocols for all knocks & public debate on the sport.

Lots of experts are making similar predictions suggesting the days of contact sports may be numbered.

What it means for future of professional leagues I don't know
 

Pippen94

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NRL didn’t become national until the 80s (by getting Canberra) then bigger with Brisbane, Gold Coast Newcastle in 88, not 1908.
Interesting you say the NRL started in 1908 yet don’t say the AFL started back earlier than 1996.
Hell Football even brag about having the 1st national competition. So it’s weird but not surprising you disregard it as it doesn’t fit your “woe is soccer” argument
I knew you would spin this into a condescending response. Let me put it this way; Rugby League & afl have been the dominant sport in their respective part of the country longer than anybody on this board has been alive.
To suggest the nsl contained anything other than ethnic teams with limited appeal is wrong. Up until this century big cities such as Sydney, Adelaide, Brisbane & Melbourne didn't have any professional teams which could gain broad support. Currently Victory, Sydney FC & Wanderers are by most metrics far more successful than any nsl club & all have been established since 2005.
This is the headstart NRL & afl have over soccer.
 

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General Giant

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I knew you would spin this into a condescending response.
Wasn’t condescending at all. Factual actually.

I
Let me put it this way; Rugby League & afl have been the dominant sport in their respective part of the country longer than anybody on this board has been alive.
True

I
To suggest the nsl contained anything other than ethnic teams with limited appeal is wrong.
1st national comp in the country.

I
Up until this century big cities such as Sydney, Adelaide, Brisbane & Melbourne didn't have any professional teams which could gain broad support.
But it isn’t like the sport hadn’t tried before then.

I
Currently Victory, Sydney FC & Wanderers are by most metrics far more successful than any nsl club & all have been established since 2005.
This I can agree with but their income is still lower than the worst AFL clubs.

I
This is the headstart NRL & afl have over soccer.
Not really a “headstart” but a failure to capitalise.
 

NoobPie

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Fair enough but I disagree. In the last few years we've seen changes to address head injuries in all sports. Previously when a cricket player was hit they'd bat on but now we see concussion protocols for all knocks & public debate on the sport.

Lots of experts are making similar predictions suggesting the days of contact sports may be numbered.

What it means for future of professional leagues I don't know
Who are these "lots of experts" predicting the "days of contact sports are numbered"?
 

jatz14

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Fair enough but I disagree. In the last few years we've seen changes to address head injuries in all sports. Previously when a cricket player was hit they'd bat on but now we see concussion protocols for all knocks & public debate on the sport.

Lots of experts are making similar predictions suggesting the days of contact sports may be numbered.

What it means for future of professional leagues I don't know
You can get head injuries in a car accident to. Are the days of automobiles numbered.

MMA is still a growing sport. When the sports where the objective is to give someone concussion get banned, I may start to worry about the sports where it isn't.

I mean, it's simple. Lots of things can cause head injuries. Skateboarding, skiing, climbing a ladder, getting drunk and falling over. I know of a local girl that suffered significant head trauma after getting a ball kicked into her head from close range in a junior soccer game. One of the best players in the league to.

Elimination of risk is not possible, and if we expect zero risk, it's not just contact sport that's toast.

Motor racing, horse riding, cycling, yachting. I've heard of people dying after being hit in the head by a boom, and knocked overboard unconscious.



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Rob

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I still play, and I'm mid 50s, and it isn't touch. Old people playing tackle footy has been a growth area for years.

I do however agree that soccer has more social games as it's easier and safer.

But I think this means the opposite in terms of the future of the sport, than you think it does.

A guy I play old man footy with has a sports mad and competitive daughter, always at the footy club, but she played soccer (no girls footy teams). She made state junior squads etc.

When female footy started, she didn't want to play because she loved soccer. She is now captain of the premier footy team. She switched because she got tired of busting her arse playing soccer, when half the players on the field regarded it as social sport, never tried, and never cared if they won or lost.

I have a long held theory.

Soccer has high participation in this country, because it's seen as easy.

It has a much higher percentage of people play in social settings. It has a higher drop of after younger age groups, because it's one of the premier sports for people not that into sports, to play.

If little Johnny doesn't care about sports, isn't athletic or coordinated, and isn't from a "sports" family, but parents think he should mix, and get exercise, they are much more likely to take him to soccer, than footy or league.
That's certainly the case where I am. The kids that are generally competitive athletes play footy, the more unathletic kids play soccer (or piano). There are a few exceptions, but that's the general rule. In my son's 100m A division race, there were 9 kids. 7 play footy, 1 plays rugby. Can't remember who the other kid was.

Of course that doesn't mean that's the case across Australia. Sydney has a much, much higher participation rate in soccer than pretty much every other city, so I suspect that would include a lot more of the best athletes. Pippen94 's experience may be a lot different to ours if he's lived his whole life in Sydney - maybe he thinks the whole country is like that.
In saying that, I don't doubt that the fortunes of the national team have sunk because of their inability to get a share of the country's good athletes. Based on sheer participation the Socceroos should be a lot better than they are. Smaller European countries like Croatia, Portugal and even the Netherlands have had so much better results than us over the last 10-15 years, but the difference is that in those countries I bet most kids grow up wanting to play the game, which importantly would include a big chunk of kids that are good athletes. That makes a huge difference at the top end.
 

kaypee

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That's certainly the case where I am. The kids that are generally competitive athletes play footy, the more unathletic kids play soccer (or piano). There are a few exceptions, but that's the general rule. In my son's 100m A division race, there were 9 kids. 7 play footy, 1 plays rugby. Can't remember who the other kid was.

Of course that doesn't mean that's the case across Australia. Sydney has a much, much higher participation rate in soccer than pretty much every other city, so I suspect that would include a lot more of the best athletes. Pippen94 's experience may be a lot different to ours if he's lived his whole life in Sydney - maybe he thinks the whole country is like that.
In saying that, I don't doubt that the fortunes of the national team have sunk because of their inability to get a share of the country's good athletes. Based on sheer participation the Socceroos should be a lot better than they are. Smaller European countries like Croatia, Portugal and even the Netherlands have had so much better results than us over the last 10-15 years, but the difference is that in those countries I bet most kids grow up wanting to play the game, which importantly would include a big chunk of kids that are good athletes. That makes a huge difference at the top end.
I had the same experience when I was involved in junior footy until about two years ago (kids grew up). even the hand full of talented sports kids who didn't play junior footy in our area were hoovered up because the clubs and smarter dad's would hear they could catch a ball and lean on their parents to let them out of soccer/ tennis to play once a week etc. a few of this kids became permanent cross overs. a few played for a few years and went back to tennis (tennis parents are nuts). soccer kids tended to stay.
 

NoobPie

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That's certainly the case where I am. The kids that are generally competitive athletes play footy, the more unathletic kids play soccer (or piano). There are a few exceptions, but that's the general rule. In my son's 100m A division race, there were 9 kids. 7 play footy, 1 plays rugby. Can't remember who the other kid was.

Of course that doesn't mean that's the case across Australia. Sydney has a much, much higher participation rate in soccer than pretty much every other city, so I suspect that would include a lot more of the best athletes. Pippen94 's experience may be a lot different to ours if he's lived his whole life in Sydney - maybe he thinks the whole country is like that.
In saying that, I don't doubt that the fortunes of the national team have sunk because of their inability to get a share of the country's good athletes. Based on sheer participation the Socceroos should be a lot better than they are. Smaller European countries like Croatia, Portugal and even the Netherlands have had so much better results than us over the last 10-15 years, but the difference is that in those countries I bet most kids grow up wanting to play the game, which importantly would include a big chunk of kids that are good athletes. That makes a huge difference at the top end.

I think the other factor (in addition to soccer getting a pretty small share of the best athletes) is the appalling culture and limited resources in terms of talent pathways. So even for the occasional talented athlete that hangs around its a krapshoot
 

kaypee

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I think the other factor (in addition to soccer getting a pretty small share of the best athletes) is the appalling culture and limited resources in terms of talent pathways. So even for the occasional talented athlete that hangs around its a krapshoot
my kids played soccer for a bit when they were tiny in cairns. registration fees were prohibitive and we had no money at the time. something like $400 for 5-year-olds. my prep son got belittled by nutty parents for turning up to training in a geelong jumper. pleased my kids lost interest.
 

jatz14

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I had the same experience when I was involved in junior footy until about two years ago (kids grew up). even the hand full of talented sports kids who didn't play junior footy in our area were hoovered up because the clubs and smarter dad's would hear they could catch a ball and lean on their parents to let them out of soccer/ tennis to play once a week etc. a few of this kids became permanent cross overs. a few played for a few years and went back to tennis (tennis parents are nuts). soccer kids tended to stay.
My kids played footy and soccer. The youngest, the least interested in sport, stayed with soccer. The oldest switched to footy at about 14/15, went on to play senior footy. Has coached soccer though, so he didnt abandon the sport. He even had a Perth Glory membership at one point, because he had a mad keen fan mate. But that lasted one year, fleeting interest the year after, hasn't watched since as far as I am aware.

All through the kids sport, I knew one kid that went from footy to soccer, and I am pretty sure its because he was slow and unco, and found footy intimidating. Plenty went the other way.
 

Gigantor

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As a general rule, general athleticism is far more important in Australian Football than soccer.
In the two years Del Piero played with SFC, he could barely run 20m, but he absolutely dominated with pure skill and class at the age of 38.
Having said that, at the very elite levels of soccer, they are mostly very good athletes, for example, Ronaldo is a superb athlete (although his Brazilian namesake wasn't!)
 

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NoobPie

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As a general rule, general athleticism is far more important in Australian Football than soccer.
In the two years Del Piero played with SFC, he could barely run 20m, but he absolutely dominated with pure skill and class at the age of 38.
Having said that, at the very elite levels of soccer, they are mostly very good athletes, for example, Ronaldo is a superb athlete (although his Brazilian namesake wasn't!)

But then imagine if, say, luke hodge went and played at a top suburban of country league. Certainly far from the greatest athlete

Del Piero was dropping back to a competition without anything remotely resembling world class players.
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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As a general rule, general athleticism is far more important in Australian Football than soccer.
In the two years Del Piero played with SFC, he could barely run 20m, but he absolutely dominated with pure skill and class at the age of 38.
Having said that, at the very elite levels of soccer, they are mostly very good athletes, for example, Ronaldo is a superb athlete (although his Brazilian namesake wasn't!)
At the elite level they are all pretty amazing athletes. That’s also why you now see junior sides from England and France with huge over representations of players of African descent.
 

Rob

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As a general rule, general athleticism is far more important in Australian Football than soccer.
In the two years Del Piero played with SFC, he could barely run 20m, but he absolutely dominated with pure skill and class at the age of 38.
Having said that, at the very elite levels of soccer, they are mostly very good athletes, for example, Ronaldo is a superb athlete (although his Brazilian namesake wasn't!)
I agree with your first comment - there's a reason why we don't see many code hoppers into or out of soccer in the first place. It's because it's a sport that requires some very unique skills, that being control of the round ball with your feet and head. It takes years to get this to the required minimum level, and it's not a skill that has much use in other sports.
But athletically speaking, the players at the highest level are still going to be in the top tiny percentile of the population. The reality is that probably only the top 3-5% of kids are even capable of reaching the top in any sport, and what sport those kids choose to play as a kid has a huge impact on how many professional ready players are produced down the track.
 

BringBackTorps

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Contact sport participation is dropping throughout world [Another lie. But correct in Aust. for RL & RU only- & AF will capitalise]
World Rugby in 2020, & for many years, has stated that contact RU is growing strongly in many parts of the world- including US, many European countries, Japan & Latin America.

As you are an English immigrant & now a NRL & soccer fan living in Sydney, apart from your usual anti-AF trolling, you may be focussed/misled too much by the sad plight of the Super League/GR RL in England: you are correct there, as English GR RL & pro RL are in a significant downward spiral.

S. Drew, an English-based writer & RL fan, & Roar "Guru" on Super League, on 23.11.20 said

"...fan attendance declining, grassrooots participation is falling off a cliff, fan attendance declining, talent migrating Down Under or to RU, [Super league] clubs facing bankruptcy, & the competitions finances flirting with semi-professionalism (implying Super League may collapse- my words in brackets, & emphases)...".


You are correct, re RL & RU in Aust.

. the collapse of GR snr RL in Sydney- where, re snr GR, 8 District RL comps. have become defunct. Their small no. of remaining snr GRClubs. are now forced to play in a Combined comp., travelling over nearly all of Sydney.
(Re GR jnr & snr comps., only the Penrith District RL comps. now survives as a separate comp.- but with the no. of Clubs & Players much depleted).

. a similar situation to the above for most jnr RL clubs in Sydney.
Most, due to insufficient contact RL nos., are either unable to field any teams from U13 above; or are forced to amalgamate with a neigbouring club to have sufficient nos. to be able to field a team, & are forced to play in a Combined comp. The exception is the Penrith District RL.

. The QRL said Rugby League Brisbane Jnrs. comp., for U6-U12, in 2020 only had c. 5000 comp. players (which include c. 10%+Club Tag only players), in 498 teams, for Greater Brisbane- pop. 2.1m (excluding Ipswich, & Ipswich District JRL). This is extraordinarily low, & is almost shocking.
Nos. in U13 -U18 much worse!


The current English RL problem of "GR participation falling off a cliff", Super League clubs facing "bankruptcy" etc. will cause, eventually, a reduction in the no. of English pro RL players joining the NRL. This reduction will place further pressure on the already declining skill standards in the NRL; &negatively effect crowds/ratings/Rights' $.



afl has to ban tackling[No]
This is absurd, tackling has been part of AF for 162 years, & will be for the next 162 years+.

There are many parents, their kids, & soccer players etc. that are fearful of being tackled, experiencing pain, or an injury, thus disavow AF, RL, or RU.
There are, however, also certainly many people who relish playing AF, RL, or RU: sports where physical courage is an essential component (after proper training to learn how to minimise the chances of injury).



Afl will never approach... fan interest of Rugby League or even Wallabies in Sydney
As the average skill level in the NRL continues to deteriorate (a big problem now in the NRL, according to many MSM RL experts linked in this, & "3rd Sydney Team" Threads), it is very likely that NSW (& ACT, & Qld. etc) fan interest will continue to decline in the NRL.


I was perplexed, then amused, that this articulate & learned writer argued on 2.1.21 that the way to "...save the code [RU in Aust.] from dying (my emphasis)" was to allow only barefoot rugby for all RU comp. players up to U12 in Aust.- but then I discovered this policy exists in South Africa, & many parts of NZ!

Of more interest to me, however, was that of the 49 persons who made a comment (all appearing to be RU fans), only c. 8 directly challenged the author's view that RU was in danger of "dying" in Aust. Anecdotal & unscientific as it may be, this further suggests that your comment that the Wallabies will always generate more interest in Sydney than the AFL is unfounded.
The MSM & RU social media are both replete with a very widespread view that RU in Aust. is severely contracting.

Even now, there is a steep decline in elite RU crowds & ratings, & male GR contact RU nos. are in a long term significant decline in NSW, ACT, & Qld. On some metrics, AF is already ahead of RU in Sydney.




That's why I especially don't trust afl numbers [Troll]
The 1.716m "participants" in AF are the AFL's Official Regd. "participant" nos. for 2019- these nos., in their Annual Reports, are independently audited by Tier 1 accountancy firms. It would be a very serious breach if the AFL gave false information to Sports Australia (formerly ASC) or ASIC.

As previously explained, a big majority are delineated, & include AF-related training programs only, Gala Days, community events, short term school programs. ALL sports adopt these rubbery practices to boost their official regd. nos.

The FFA is the biggest offender in its Official Regd. "participant" nos. of c.1.95m- rubbery.
Soccer is played- inc. indoor- c. 45 wks pa, so has FAR more participants counted multiple times, cf AF. Many private schools ban their students that play school AF or RU from playing in GR Clubs- but don't similarly ban their soccer students.

Furthermore, most AFL executives either come from previous senior positions in the private sector, & intend to resume a career in the private sector after leaving the AFL. They would probably destroy their future career prospects , & be acting illegally, in providing false information to govt. agencies. They would not adopt such a dangerous policy, purely out of self interest.

As usual, you have produced no evidence to substantiate your claims...& you continue refuse to answer directly the many questions I have put to you.
 
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The_Wookie

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NRL started in 1908 & afl in 1996 & have been dominent in respective states since.
Say what now? Australian Football started in 1856, and was played in all states and territories before Rugby league was a thing in this country.

If the AFL started in 1996 - it didnt by any measure - the NRL didnt start until 1998.


First national comp for soccer was 1977 but if you want to get technical Perth didn't join till 1990's. With exception of Canberra in first year & towards end of 90's with Breakers & Glory all team were ethnic & didn't represent broader community - that's only happened since 2005. To act like these codes have had same footing is bullshit
The NRL doesnt have teams anywhere outside the east coast. the NRL doesnt have the same footing as the AFL and acting like it is bullshit.
 

Gigantor

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Say what now? Australian Football started in 1856, and was played in all states and territories before Rugby league was a thing in this country.

If the AFL started in 1996 - it didnt by any measure - the NRL didnt start until 1998.




The NRL doesnt have teams anywhere outside the east coast. the NRL doesnt have the same footing as the AFL and acting like it is bullshit.
1858
Rules first codified in 1859
 

Tasmanian saint

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Say what now? Australian Football started in 1856, and was played in all states and territories before Rugby league was a thing in this country.

If the AFL started in 1996 - it didnt by any measure - the NRL didnt start until 1998.




The NRL doesnt have teams anywhere outside the east coast. the NRL doesnt have the same footing as the AFL and acting like it is bullshit.
Question since when is using obscene language in posts bullshit ok ?
 

BringBackTorps

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Brisbane Times T. Crockford 19.10.20

After the Prelim. Final, Qld. Tourism Minister K. Jones said

"We have seen over the past 5 years a 500% increase in the number of girls playing AFL in Qld.".
(Confused K. Jones has erred- certainly a 500% increase is FAR too high: possibly a post 2017 AFLW, 500% increase in female 5 & 6 y.o. in Qld. Auskick? AFL 2019 official regd. nos. show Qld. has the highest % of female players in Aust.- c.42% of regd. players in Qld. are female).

Then G. McLachlan said

""The ratings...I'm really confident that will translate to growth at community level...we were the number one watched code by a mile, & now in Qld. as well...I'm not saying we're the number one sport [in the State], but its nice to be in the conversation".



All sports' Officials from all sports would like to be "the no. one sport"- at least saying this privately.

There has, AFAIK, only been one other AFL official to ever publicly utter similar sentiments about hoping or wanting to be "number one" in NSW, ACT, or Qld.
ie M. Fitzpatrick, after he resigned as AFL Commission Chair, said in 2018 he wanted AF to be the primary code (undefined) on the whole east coast of Australia.


Canberra Times C. Dutton 28.4.17

In 2017, McLachlan said he wanted AF to be the dominant code in the ACT.

McLachlan said

"And I'm hoping in 5 years time, its unassailably number one".


AF in 2020 has FAR more GR club & school comp. players in the ACT than RL- more than RU also, but less than soccer. NRL probably has more fans, due to the Raiders.

If the ACT (after Tas. became the 19th AFL club) became the 20th AFL Club (or at least shared- 5/6 home games-a Club with eg Campbelltown), then AF would dominate the ACT.






EDIT:

espn.com A. Wingard 21.10

Wingard said "Football's footprint in Qld. continues to grow...".

G. McLachlan said

"It does feel like we're closer than ever [to becoming Qld.'s no.1 sporting code] & the momentum is incredible...Right now, it feels like it's close to being Qld.'s game...we have incredible momentum here in Qld. People can't get enough AFL up here".

C. Scott said "Qld. footy is going to benefit from this for years to come...".

 
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TWLS

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Brisbane Times T. Crockford 19.10.20

After the Prelim. Final, Qld. Tourism Minister K. Jones said

"We have seen over the past 5 years a 500% increase in the number of girls playing AFL in Qld.".
(Confused K. Jones has erred- certainly a 500% increase is FAR too high: possibly a post 2017 AFLW, 500% increase in female 5 & 6 y.o. in Qld. Auskick? AFL 2019 official regd. nos. show Qld. has the highest % of female players in Aust.- c.42% of regd. players in Qld. are female).

Then G. McLachlan said

""The ratings...I'm really confident that will translate to growth at community level...we were the number one watched code by a mile, & now in Qld. as well...I'm not saying we're the number one sport [in the State], but its nice to be in the conversation".



All sports' Officials from all sports would like to be "the no. one sport"- at least saying this privately.

There has, AFAIK, only been one other AFL official to ever publicly utter similar sentiments about hoping or wanting to be "number one" in NSW, ACT, or Qld.
ie M. Fitzpatrick, after he resigned as AFL Commission Chair, said in 2018 he wanted AF to be the primary code (undefined) on the whole east coast of Australia.


Canberra Times C. Dutton 28.4.17

In 2017, McLachlan said he wanted AF to be the dominant code in the ACT.

McLachlan said

"And I'm hoping in 5 years time, its unassailably number one".


AF in 2020 has FAR more GR club & school comp. players in the ACT than RL- more than RU also, but less than soccer. NRL probably has more fans, due to the Raiders.

If the ACT (after Tas. became the 19th AFL club) became the 20th AFL Club (or at least shared- 5/6 home games-a Club with eg Campbelltown), then AF would dominate the ACT.






EDIT:

espn.com A. Wingard 21.10

Wingard said "Football's footprint in Qld. continues to grow...".

G. McLachlan said

"It does feel like we're closer than ever [to becoming Qld.'s no.1 sporting code] & the momentum is incredible...Right now, it feels like it's close to being Qld.'s game...we have incredible momentum here in Qld. People can't get enough AFL up here".

C. Scott said "Qld. footy is going to benefit from this for years to come...".

Well it sure looks good on the surface BUT what is the AFL going to do about the mainstream sports media in Brisbane and Sydney. They lean heavily to the NRL currently. The Australian daily print newspaper (Sydney Based) usually has articles on the NRL EVERY DAY but not our game.
When that changes we may see things change - Just asking.
 

kaypee

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Well it sure looks good on the surface BUT what is the AFL going to do about the mainstream sports media in Brisbane and Sydney. They lean heavily to the NRL currently. The Australian daily print newspaper (Sydney Based) usually has articles on the NRL EVERY DAY but not our game.
When that changes we may see things change - Just asking.
who cares? a) nobody buys the Oz for its sport coverage. b) nobody buys the Oz much anyway. c) it's a Murdoch vanity project which blows in the direction in which he farts.
 

TWLS

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who cares? a) nobody buys the Oz for its sport coverage. b) nobody buys the Oz much anyway. c) it's a Murdoch vanity project which blows in the direction in which he farts.
Agree about Murdoch and his non influence but the point is the Main Stream Media in Sydney is still NRL leaning. Yeah I know everyone uses their phones now for sports coverage which leads to the point of --- How many Mobile users of the AFL Website are based in Sydney. We will never know likely.
I think it is also a generational thing - Older population sticking to TV news and Newspapers which are NRL dominate in Sydney.
Younger population such as our 24yo Grand Daughter who uses none of the above but gets all news from her phone and friends. Her phone is never put down at any time only at work.
 

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