What are the chances of Footy overtaking league in NSW and Queensland?

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Freomaniac

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Oh for sure, I think a lot of them do indeed fear the growth of footy in QLD, I mean 40 years ago in NQ you wouldnt have even heard anything about what was happening at Waverley of a Saturday, but now there a AFL games being played in Cairns and Townsville and kids up there actually playing the sport too.
Make no mistake though, plenty of the old (and young) bogans up there truly HATE aussie rules though.
Let the Rugby league fans dislike Australian Rules footy.

Brisbane struggled for 10 years from 1987-1996. When Brisbane had their Success from 1999-2004, the Gabba was regularly sold out.
 

BringBackTorps

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This reddit thread, from June 2020, examines the success of GCFC- particularly its Academy Programs- in promoting GR AF, & the AFL, in rural & regional Qld.
It was written by a school teacher, a Qld. native originally from the Gold Coast, who transferred to teach in Central Qld.- & who had no interest in AF prior to 2011.

He said (whilst omitting the NT)

"[Gold Coast's Zone & Academies extend from]... nthn. NSW, from Evans Head, to the border, from the border to Logan [far sthn. Brisbane], from Gladstone to Cape York...

Do they [Central Qld. etc.] care about AFL? Traditionally, no....But my experience tells me that kids in a shiithole Central Quensland town do. And the Suns have their hooks in our grassroots footy... Kids at school self-identify as being AFL kids, as opposed to League kids...the same thing is happening elsewhere too. When I was a kid, AFL had a stigma. That has gone...
The GC Suns are setting up as the regional & rural Qld. team. They are our version of the NQ Cowboys".






This 11.1.21 OP is from Thom Roker, a Roar "Guru", re GCFC's activities in "Sunsland"- the GCFC's large rural & regional Zone.
Roker gives a comprehensive analysis of its strong Academy programs, which are having much success in producing AFL Draftees; & AF promotion generally.

"...with [GCFC- branded] Academy running teams from U12-U19's that play in regional competitions, & will compete in the[Vic.] NAB League U17 & U19's in 2021...

Ten years into the AFL's mission to convert talent in the most non-traditional State has been a resounding success (Words in brackets, & emphases, mine)".


These above 2 Threads provide insights into the AFL's GR strategies, & how/why regd. Official GR AF Club & school comp. nos. in Qld. & NSW are showing such strong growth.
The various Academy programs, delivered in many different locations, encourage young players to "hope" (however unrealistic), & create more widespread interest in GR AF & the AFL. The GCFC etc. branding stimulates tribalism, a sense of belonging, & part of the local GC Suns, "our team".

The AFL can be confident that the annual regd. nos. in Club & school comps. in Qld. & NSW are likely to keep rising indefinitely.
 
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BringBackTorps

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1. pythogonrl.com 9.3.20

"A 17th team in Brisbane doesn't expand the game, but it should make money. The ideal bid would add $100m to the NRL's coffers, either through a licence fee or extra dollars for the next broadcast deal, or both, because that's how much it cost to get the Storm going (He is alluding to extra Newscorp Storm top-ups of between $4m-$6m pa, from 1997 to, probably, 2017- my words)".

This website (run by Brisbane-based Liam, an engineer) provides, generally, some of the best analyses of RL, & supports its views with a vast use of statistics, & other relevant factual information.

The site has also provided, IMO, one of the best & most detailed analyses of which proposed competing parties have the superior case to become Brisbane 2.
(I am excluding the December 2018 T. Greenberg-commissioned enquiry into general NRL expansion options. This was delivered to the ARLC in December 2019. Its contents & recommendation were never made publicly available; & P. V'landys ordered, in December 2019, a new expansion investigation- yet to be delivered).

Brisbane 2, in a city of 2.4m+, is obviously a no-brainer for the NRL, with a big game every week at Suncorp- more crowds/higher ratings/more MSM NRL coverage, & Rights' $.
This big strategic advantage for the NRL, however, is likely to be thwarted in the near term- because NRL talent scouts have recently advised the NRL (according to RL journalist S. Mascord on 13.12.20) there is insufficient depth of talent in RL to successfully extend the comp. to 17 clubs.




2. This is a dissertation by B. Maher (who is a snr executive in the NSWRL), delivered to Lancashire Uni., UK, in 2019.
It is part of his thesis for a Doctorate, & its title is "Changing Grassroots Culture in Australian Rugby League", with its focus on issues & problems in GR RL, & how they are contributing to a decline in GR (male) contact RL nos.

Unfortunately, much of the statistical information relates only to the years 2014 & 2015.

There is also an attached Report from Gemba, a Sports' Consultancy company.

It is my understanding the successful non-contact League Stars program 4-6 weeks, for primary school kids after hours M-F, was created to overcome many of these GR participation concerns (One of which was that Maher stated there were many time-poor families on weekends, so they would prefer a RL program during the week).


WARNING Long Read for the holidays- 330 pages.

 
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BringBackTorps

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theconversation.com.au Dr S. Georgakis Snr Lecturer of Pedagogy & Sport Studies (Sydney Uni.) 23.10.20

Dr Georgakis wrote about the history of AF in Qld., & its future prospects, & said

Melbourne Rules was the first, in 1866, of all 4 football codes played in Qld.; & in 1876,"...& it was only a quirk of history, as well as an enduring love of the British Empire, that caused Queenslanders to switch codes...the elite sanctioned Rugby Union as the the imperial football code".

"..the expansion of the VFL/AFL, beginning in the 1980's. But (re future prospects for Qld. AF) more significantly, there has been growth at the grassroots level amongst both adults & children, men & women...".

"...if the spectator nos. are any indication (the big ratings' increase in 2020 Finals, both in Brisbane- where the AFL outrated the NRL, but no Qld. Finalists played; & Sydney AFL TV ratings), Australian Rules football is coming back to Qld.".

Georgakis quoted the October 2020 comments by G. McLachlan where McLachlan implied that the AFL had aspirations that AF would, eventually, be considered "Queensland's game"; & McLachlan also stated "... it's nice to be in the conversation" as to which code will become no.1 in Qld.

(Brisbane Ratings AFL GF 2020 383K, NRL GF 492K. Regional Qld. AFL GF 141k; Sydney Ratings AFL GF 419K, NRL GF 848K . Regional NSW AFL GF 251K.
In Brisbane 2020, the Lions AFL Prelim. outrated the NRL Prelim Final. All words & emphases in brackets, mine).

 
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Pippen94

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theconversation.com.au Dr S. Georgakis Snr Lecturer of Pedagogy & Sport Studies (Sydney Uni.) 23.10.20

Dr Georgakis wrote about the history of AF in Qld., & its future prospects, & said

Melbourne Rules was the first, in 1866, of all 4 football codes played in Qld.; & in 1876,"...& it was only a quirk of history, as well as an enduring love of the British Empire, that caused Queenslanders to switch codes...the elite sanctioned Rugby Union as the the imperial football code".

"..the expansion of the VFL/AFL, beginning in the 1980's. But (re future prospects for AF) more significantly, there has been growth at the grassroots level amongst both adults & children, men & women...".

"...if the spectator nos. are any indication (the big ratings' increase in 2020 Finals, both Brisbane- where the AFL outrated the NRL, but no Qld. Finalists played; & Sydney AFL TV ratings), Australian Rules football is coming back to Qld.".

Georgakis quoted the October 2020 comments by G. McLachlan which implied that the AFL had aspirations that AF would, eventually, be considered "Queensland's game"; & McLachlan also stated "... it's nice to be in the conversation" as to which code will become no.1 in Qld.

(Brisbane Ratings AFL GF 2020 383K, NRL GF 492K. Regional Qld. AFL GF 141k; Sydney Ratings AFL GF 419K, NRL GF 848K . Regional NSW AFL GF 251K.
In Brisbane 2020, the Lions AFL Prelim. outrated the NRL Prelim Final. All words & emphases in brackets, mine).

How did regular season TV ratings in Sydney look for 2020??
 

BringBackTorps

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1. GR snr male contact RL, in the Rugby League Brisbane (RLB) comp. that covers Greater Brisbane, is in significant trouble.

I have provided, in the RLB link below, the no. of GR snr male contact RL teams in 2020 for Greater Brisbane, population c. 2.1m.
(These nos. do not include the Ipswich district, which is technically part of Greater Brisbane. Ipswich has its own Rugby League Ipswich -RLI- comp. The population of Ipswich at the 2016 Census was 323,069).

2020
A Grade- 8 teams
Reserves - 8 "

Division1- 10 "

Div.2South-4 "
Div.3South-7 "

Div.2North-10 "
Div.3North-12 "

In 2020, in the RLB comp, there were no GR U19 or U20 male contact RL teams.

In 2020, in the RLB U18 Blair Division, there were 8 GR male contact RL teams; & in U18 Division 2, there were 6 GR male contact teams.
(Scroll from U18 onwards)

For a RL heartland of c. 2.1m, the above team nos. are extraordinarily low, & are almost shocking.

The 2020 GR RL seasons in Greater Brisbane were all shortened, due to covid. It is likely some teams decided to not play, because the season was shortened.


2. The Rugby League Ipswich comp. (also shortened) in 2020 had these nos. for GR contact snr RL, & jnr contact RL teams.

Opens - 6 teams

Nil teams in Under 18, 19, or 20.

Under 17 -5 Teams
Under 16-nil "
Under 15- 4 "
Under 14 -6 "
Under 12 - 9"
Under 8 - 9 ".
These nos. are also poor.


3. Qld. has, for a considerable time, been considered a much more passionate RL state than NSW, & has had much greater success at State Of Origin.
IIRC, for NRL broadcasts on a per capita basis, the Greater Brisbane area has c. 30% greater ratings than the Greater Sydney area.

I previously noted that the QRL, on 24.7.20, said the Rugby League Brisbane Jnr comp. for Greater Brisbane (ie not including the Ipswich District JRL comp.) had only c. 5000 regd. Club male & female players from U6-U12 inclusive, in 498 teams (& c. 10%+ of the 5000 were playing in jnr RL club affiliated non-contact tag comps.). See post#110 for QRL link & details.

AFL Queensland, however, announced in late July 2020 there was a record c. 12,700 regd. club jnrs (also in a shortened comp.) from U8-U17 for the 2020 SEQ Jnr. AF club comp.(ie 12,700 does not include club Auskick U6-U9, nor school comp. players- but does include also the Gold Coast & Sunshine Coast club comp. jnr players). See post#107 for link & details.

GR AF & the AFL are making great progress in the Gold Coast-Brisbane-Sunshine Coast corridor- in contrast to the significant, long term decline in GR male contact RL nos. in SEQ (& the rest of Qld., NSW & ACT).


AF has given an c. 100 year head start (1987) to elite RL & RU, & GR RL & RU in SEQ.
The NRL, also, still receives huge MSM coverage in all of Qld., cf the small coverage the AFL receives in SEQ- yet despite this huge MSM benefit, GR male contact RL is unable to take advantage of this (& its historical supremacy). RL's inherent weaknessess, vulnerability, & bleak prospects are fully exposed.

Both the changing & reversing historical & MSM factors, together with the current GR stats, reinforce the view that in the Gold Coast-Brisbane-Sunshine Coast corridor, GR AF club & school comp. regd. nos. have overtaken contact RL club & school comp. nos.- or will very soon overtake RL; & the AFL may also eventually challenge the NRL for popularity in SEQ (& Cairns district) in c. 20 years.

Season 2020 should, therefore, be considered a very historic year for the progress of AF in SEQ.
 
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Pippen94

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1. GR snr male contact RL, in the Rugby League Brisbane (RLB) comp. that covers Greater Brisbane, is in significant trouble.

I have provided, in the RLB link below, the no. of male GR snr contact RL teams in 2020 for Greater Brisbane, population c. 2.1m.
(These nos. do not include the Ipswich district, which is technically part of Greater Brisbane. Ipswich has its own Rugby League Ipswich -RLI- comp. The population of Ipswich at the 2016 Census was 323,069).

2020
A Grade- 8 teams
Reserves- 8 "

Division1- 10 "

Div.2South-4 "
Div.3South-7 "

Div.2North-10 "
Div.3North-12 "

In 2020, in the RLB comp, there were no GR U19 or U20 male contact RL teams.

In 2020, in the RLB U18 Blair Division, there were 8 GR male contact RL teams; & in U18 Division 2, there were 6 GR male contact teams.
(Scroll down to U18 onwards)

For a RL heartland of c. 2.1m, the above team nos. are extraordinarily low, & are almost shocking.

The 2020 GR RL seasons in Greater Brisbane were all shortened, due to covid. It is likely some teams decided to not play, because the season was shortened.


2. The Rugby League Ipswich comp. (also shortened) in 2020 had these nos. for GR contact snr RL, & jnr contact RL teams.

Opens - 6 teams

Nil teams in Under 18, 19, or 20.

Under 17 -5 Teams
Under 16-nil "
Under 15- 4 "
Under 14 -6 "
Under 12 - 9"
Under 8 - 9 ".


3. Qld. has, for a considerable time, been considered a much more passionate RL state than NSW, & has had much greater success at State Of Origin.
IIRC, for NRL broadcasts on a per capita basis, the Greater Brisbane area has c. 30% greater ratings than the Greater Sydney area.

I previously noted that the QRL, on 24.7.20, said the Rugby League Brisbane Jnr comp. for Greater Brisbane (ie not including the Ipswich District JRL comp.) had only c. 5000 regd. Club male & female players from U6-U12 inclusive, in 498 teams (See post#110 for QRL link & details).
(& c. 10%+ of the 5000 were playing in jnr RL club affiliated non-contact tag comps.).

AFL Queensland, however, announced in late July 2020 there was a record c. 12,700 regd. club jnrs (also in a shortened comp.) from U8-U17 for the 2020 SEQ Jnr. AF club comp.(ie 12,700 does not include club Auskick U6-U9, nor school comp. players- but does include also the Gold Coast & Sunshine Coast club comp. jnr players). See post#107 for link & details.

GR AF & the AFL are making great progress in the Gold Coast-Brisbane-Sunshine Coast corridor- in contrast to the significant, long term decline in GR male contact RL nos. in SEQ (& the rest of Qld., NSW & ACT).


AF has given an c. 100 year head start (1987) to elite RL & RU, & GR RL & RU in SEQ.
The NRL, also, still receives huge MSM coverage in all of Qld., cf the small coverage the AFL receives in SEQ- yet despite this huge MSM benefit, GR male contact RL is unable to take advantage of this (& its historical supremacy). RL's inherent weaknessess, vulnerability, & bleak prospects are fully exposed.

Both the changing & reversing historical & MSM factors, together with the current GR stats, reinforce the view that in the Gold Coast-Brisbane-Sunshine Coast corridor, GR AF club & school comp. regd. nos. have overtaken contact RL club & school comp. nos.- or will very soon overtake RL; & the AFL may also eventually challenge the NR for popularity in SEQ (& Cairns district) in c. 20 years.

Season 2020 should, therefore, be considered a very historic year for the progress of AF in SEQ.
Don't worry second NRL team will change all that
 

Our Game

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This reddit thread, from June 2020, examines the success of GCFC- particularly its Academy Programs- in promoting GR AF, & the AFL, in rural & regional Qld.
It was written by a school teacher, a Qld. native originally from the Gold Coast, who transferred to teach in Central Qld.- & who had no interest in AF prior to 2011.

He said (whilst omitting the NT)

"[Gold Coast's Zone & Academies extend from]... nthn. NSW, from Evans Head, to the border, from the border to Logan [far sthn. Brisbane], from Gladstone to Cape York...

Do they [Central Qld. etc.] care about AFL? Traditionally, no....But my experience tells me that kids in a shiithole Central Quensland town do. And the Suns have their hooks in our grassroots footy... Kids at school self-identify as being AFL kids, as opposed to League kids...the same thing is happening elsewhere too. When I was a kid, AFL had a stigma. That has gone...
The GC Suns are setting up as the regional & rural Qld. team. They are our version of the NQ Cowboys".






This 11.1.21 OP is from Thom Roker, a Roar "Guru", re GCFC's activities in "Sunsland"- the GCFC's large rural & regional Zone.
Roker gives a comprehensive analysis of its strong Academy programs, which are having much success in producing AFL Draftees; & AF promotion generally.

"...with [GCFC- branded] Academy running teams from U12-U19's that play in regional competitions, & will compete in the[Vic.] NAB League U17 & U19's in 2021...

Ten years into the AFL's mission to convert talent in the most non-traditional State has been a resounding success (Words in brackets, & emphases, mine)".


These above 2 Threads provide insights into the AFL's GR strategies, & how/why regd. Official GR AF Club & school comp. nos. in Qld. & NSW are showing such strong growth.
The various Academy programs, delivered in many different locations, encourage young players to "hope" (however unrealistic), & more widespread interest in GR AF & the AFL. They GCFC etc. branding stimulates tribalism, a sense of belonging, & part of the local GC Suns, "our team".

The AFL can be confident that the annual regd. nos. in Club & school comps. in Qld. & NSW are likely to keep rising indefinitely.
Thanks for those interesting insights!So its not all doom and QLD!
 

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BringBackTorps

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1.
Don't worry second NRL team will change all that
Your confidence that creating Brisbane 2 will rectify the extraordinarily low & almost shocking no. of GR male contact RL Club teams in the Greater Brisbane & Ipswich districts (See my post#459, which I note you are not challenging) is misplaced.

In Sydney, there are 8.5 NRL clubs. This big no. of NRL Clubs has not prevented 8 Sydney District RL comps. from becoming defunct, re separate GR snr contact RL comps. ie forcing clubs into Combined comps. (which often requires lengthy travel times), & sometimes teams have to join up with another Club's team team also, due to lack of nos..
Ditto, due to insufficient nos., many jnr contact RL clubs & teams, from U13 upwards are forced to join Combined Districts (& often, also, teams are forced to join another Club's team, due to lack of nos.).

Penrith District RL is the last surviving snr GR male comp.! It has also, however, experienced a long term significant reduction in the no. of Clubs, & snr & jnr male contact RL player nos.


Not if they half ass development programs.
IIRC from the NRL Annual Reports, the NRL spent c. $35m, $36m, & $38m on "Community Development" in 2017, 2018, & 2019 respectively.

The NRL, therefore, have been spending considerable sums- but to no avail/little benefit, re GR male contact RL nos.
It can be expected that, due to the NRL's covid-related financial pressures, the NRL is likely to reduce expenditure on Community Development.




2. smh.com.au M. Chammas 1.2.21

P. V'landys indicated in recent days the NRL is likely to decide about June if it will create Brisbane 2., which V'landys & nearly all MSM experts desire (but many want it to replace a Sydney Club, so NRL stays at 16: depth of talent is too poor, & NRL will suffer).

V'landys said

"There are 5 big issues on the Commission's timetable at the moment...Four is expansion in Brisbane. And five goes hand in hand with expansion and that is participation. Participation to us is everything. One of the reasons we want the team in Brisbane is because of participation. I want to expand because of participation (all my emphases)".

Re female teachers now being c. 90%+ of all primary school teachers, V'landys also said

"We need a program to train these primary school teachers into being rugby league coaches".


As per my comments to Pip above, having 8.5 NRL clubs have NOT prevented the collapse of GR male contact RL in many parts of Sydney- also the Broncos, Titans, & Raiders have not prevented the significant decline in jnr & snr male contact RL in Brisbane, Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast & ACT (& adjacent NSW).
The NRL appear to be making a big gamble if Brisbane 2 is predicated on solving their long term decline in Brisbane (& on the Gold Coast & Sunshine Coast).

It is my understanding that contact rugby league has a poor presence in the Gold Coast- Brisbane- Sunshine Coast corridor primary schools.

The NRL's plan, to solve their GR contact RL "crisis", to convert the mainly female primary school teachers to RL coaches, will probably experience much resistance- due to RL's perceived roughness/danger, & the NRL's very regular & well-publicised "cultural problems".
I suspect many female teachers, similar to a big majority of tertiary-educated females in NSW, ACT, & Qld., are not enamored with the NRL & RL.
 
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BringBackTorps

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Uni. of Qld. Contact Magazine M. Jones October 2020

Jones said

In 2020 season, "...AFL Qld. has seen an increase of 10-15% of Auskick participants across the State..."

"Kelly believes the exposure of the game to Queenslanders has come at just the right time for the AFL as it looks to truly cement itself as Australia's number one football code".
"Ass. Prof. S. Kelly believes main argument for Qld. hosting the Grand Final was about legacy- not only for the development of Aussie Rules across Qld. ...".

Ass. Prof. S. Kelly said

"Qld is a growth market for the AFL, so just by having something that is inspirational & highly visible...has been a boost for the Qld. AFL, & the game at grassroots level".

 
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BringBackTorps

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1. The Australian J. Halloran & W. Mason 4.11.20

Halloran & Mason said

"Rugby Australia has slashed $30m in costs of its books. ..sources say there are plans to slash more".

"The RA 2019 Annual Report shows the organisation...spent... last year (ie in 2019)... only $4.32m on community rugby (extraordinarily low for all Australia!- my words & emphasis in brackets).

If The Australian link above does not open due to paywall, relevant parts can be found here.



RA was facing financial pressures in 2019, before the covid recession hit from March 2020- & the economic downturn is likely to continue for some time.

RA's finances are much worse now, having lost its share of the very lucrative Rights' $ for Australian Super Rugby games played in South Africa (which attract very high Prime Time Ratings & Rights' $ from Europe- but South Africa has now withdrawn from Super Rugby permanently).

It is, therefore, very likely RA will slash its already meagre expenditure (only $4.32m in 2019 ) on Community Rugby further from 2020 indefinitely- exacerbating its GR male contact RU decline in NSW, ACT, & Qld..
This will result in the AFL & GR AF continuing to increase their market share in NSW, ACT, & Qld.

GR male contact R nos., however, have NOT been a beneficiary of RA's severe financial problems, & the meagre amounts that RA spends on Community Rugby.

As linked in my above posts #459 & 464, GR jnr & snr male contact RL has collapsed in all parts of Sydney, excluding the strong Penrith District RL (but the latter, whilst the District is still intact, has had a significant decline in male jnr & snr contact nos.).

In the Gold Coast- Greater Brisbane- Sunshine Coast corridor, there has also been a collapse in male contact jnr & snr RL nos.





2. Three RL & RU experts analyse & discuss a range of issues that are causing major problems for elite RL & RU, & GR RL &RU, in Australia (more issues than just the above-mentioned collapse of GR male contact RL & RU nos.).

(Scroll to my post#3473)
 
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BringBackTorps

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1. COLLAPSE OF GR JNR & SNR MALE CONTACT RL IN GREATER SYDNEY- MAJOR PROBLEMS FOR THE NRL.

The 2020 Greater Sydney GR jnr & snr male contact RL comp. team & player nos. are extraordinarily low, & almost shocking, for an heartland city of c. 5.35m.

This information directly below relates to all the 12 2020 Sydney RL Districts- re the no. of GR jnr & snr male contact teams in their RL comps.
After the age groups stated below, the teams in each District RL, due to their small nos., must join a (sometimes) nearby combined District.
All RL Districts in Sydney- as discrete Districts for all jnr & snr age groups remaining in their own area- are now defunct.

Sydney Roosters DRL (covers the ES)- discrete only to U8 (U8 9 teams).

Parramatta Districts Convents RL Association- discrete only to U11 (U11 4 teams).
Manly Warringah DRL- discrete only to U11 (U11 13 teams)
North Sydney DRL- discrete only to U11 (U11 6 teams)

Balmain DRL (U12 9 teams), Canterbury Bankstown DRL (U12 15 teams), Cronulla Sutherland DRL (U12 17 teams), South Sydney DRL (U12 8 teams), St George DRL (U12 6 teams), West Tigers Macarthur DRL (U12 12 teams): all discrete only to U12.

Parramatta DRL- discrete only to U18 (U18 9 teams)
(Parramatta DRL U16 12 teams, nil U17 teams).


Penrith DRL- discrete only to U19 (U19 12 teams)
(U16 15 teams, U17 18 teams, nil U18).

(Scroll down to each listed District RL above for more details)



2020 Sydney Combined Conference GR jnr & snr male contact RL team nos. from U16 (both Parramatta DRL & Penrith DRL not included).

U16
NE Silver- 6 teams, NE Gold-6 teams
SE Silver- 7, SE Gold- 6
SW Silver- 8, SW Gold- 6

U17
Combined- 7
E- 8
W- 4

U18
E Gold- 9
E Silver- 7
W Gold- 6
W Silver- 6

U20
Gold- 6
Silver- 8

U23
Combined- 6

Open (Adult)
NE Gold- 6
NE Silver- 6
S Gold- 7
S Silver- 6
SW Gold- 6
SW Silver- 6
W- 10

(Scroll to "Conference Competitions" for more details).


From GR U16- U18 inclusive in the Combined Conferences, there are a total of 86 teams (there is no under 19).
When Parramatta DRL U16 12 teams (nil U17), U18 9 teams are added, the total is 107.
When Penrith DRL U16 15 teams, U17 18 teams (nil U18) are added, the U16-U18 Greater Sydney total is 140 teams. Very Low.

The only GR U19 comp. in Sydney is Penrith DRL U19, 12 teams. Very low for all of Greater Sydney.

For all of Greater Sydney, GR U20, U23, & Open, the total no. is 67 teams.
This 67 does not include Sydney-based teams in the 2020 (Open) Sydney Shield 8 teams, (Open) President's Cup 4 teams- when added, for Greater Sydney, it is a total of 79 adult teams. Very low.

In 2020, the NSW Canterbury Cup (NRL Reserves) was in recess- I assume many played in the President's Cup & Sydney Shield instead.

GR RL & the NRL in Sydney have major problems, considering these very low RL nos., & significant long term male contact decline, in a population c. 5.35m.
(Ditto for the Gold Coast-Brisbane-Sunshine Coast corridor male contact jnr & snr player & team nos.).

The GR contact RL decline was the main reason why ARLC Chairman J. Grant , in 2017, wanted to establish a $100m emergency GR fund. It was, however, rejected by the NRL clubs, & Grant soon decided to "resign".

It is arguable that RL, in c. 10-20 years, could be in a similar situation to American Football ie very weak, or almost non-existent, in adult GR non-pro clubs & player nos. in Sydney & SEQ.





2. SMH A. Pengilly 14.2.21

P. V'landys said

"Qld. is an established market for us, & we need to consolidate it (implying SEQ, supposedly RL heartland, is not consolidated?). If we don't, it's at our peril. That's why participation in Qld. is imperative & what expansion is going to do is improve participation (how much?). You're going to get the Cameron Smiths. Billy Slaters, & Mal Meningas...otherwise, you'll be reading about them in AFL (All emphases & words in brackets, mine)".


One can clearly infer from V'landys' comments that he, & the NRL, are clearly worried about the collapse in male contact RL nos. in SEQ- for good reasons, see post#459 above on Brisbane adult nos., & post#110 above on Brisbane jnr. RL nos..

The NRL has 9 NRL clubs in Sydney- but this has not prevented the collapse in its male contact nos.
 
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BringBackTorps

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wwos.nine.com 18.2.21

Current NSW Police Commissioner, M. Fuller, wanted to join the ARL Commission, in an honorary role, after being approached by P. V'landys to join (who wanted Fuller to assist in establishing policies to help reduce NRL player- a small minority- off field misbehavior).
He was later ruled ineligible, due to a conflict of interest.

Fuller said, re NRL player behavioural problems

"They are doing incredible damage to the reputation of the game...In NRL, you have other stakeholders, like the fans & sponsors)".

The WWOS host said, re the latest many episodes of player misbehaviour in the 2020/21 off-season, "They just keep coming".



wwos.nine.com Z. Gates 21.2.21

Gates said

Recently, "...NRL had lost a potential multi million dollar sponsorship with a leading hardware chain due to misbehaving players".

"during this [2020-21] off season, P. Haas, D. Fifita,, C. Norman, T. Starling, C. Horsborough, C.Harawira, & A. Elliot have all faced allegations of being involved in off-field incidents. Four Raiders' juniors have also been sacked for slipping up, whilst M. Pearce resigned as the Newcastle Knights' captain over a texting scandal that ruined his wedding plans...".

"Out-of-line players have also strained the relationship between the NRL & police, whilst the credibility of rugby league is a priority of both parties".

M. Fuller said

"I went and saw P. V'landys a couple of weeks ago. I didn't want to have 2021 as a rocky relationship between police & the NRL. I thought he was having a joke about joining the Commission".



I suspect the poor reputation of NRL players is a contributing factor to the collapse of GR jnr & snr contact RL in Greater Sydney, & the Gold Coast- Greater Brisbane-Sunshine Coast corridor (partially excluding Penrith District RL & Ipswich District RL).

Whilst the AFL has plenty of off-field player misbehaviour scandals also, they are, generally, not of the same frequency & magnitude of the NRL.
 
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BringBackTorps

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smh.com.au A. Webster 22.2.21

Webster said that P. V'landys

"...wanted Fuller, 52, on the Commission because of an alarming link between [NRL] players & organise crime figures".

P. V'landys said

"There is a bigger problem facing the game that Mick [Fuller, NSW Police Commissioner] needs to help us with, & that is making sure the players are not associating with criminal figures, whether that be with those in the underworld or those with links to unsavoury people".



The NRL is obviously very concerned re links between NRL players & organised crime figures. I suspect this may be linked to illegal betting/fixing on NRL games, & possibly illegal drugs obtained directly from crime figures.
If either scenario is occuring, the NRL's, & GR RL's, reputation would be further severely tarnished.

Whilst the AFL has had, also, occasional links between AFL Club figures & organised crime figures, AFAIK, these links have been miniscule.
For P. V'landys, however, to express publicly his concerns, & for him to invite M. Fuller to join the ARLC to combat it, suggests that criminal links are now a real problem for the NRL (albeit it would be a very small no. of NRL players).
 
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kaypee

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smh.com.au A. Webster 22.2.21

Webster said that P. V'landys

"...wanted Fuller, 52, on the Commission because of an alarming link between [NRL] players & organise crime figures".

P. V'landys said

"There is a bigger problem facing the game that Mick [Fuller, NSW Police Commissioner] needs to help us with, & that is making sure the players are not associating with criminal figures, whether that be with those in the underworld or those with links to unsavoury people".



The NRL is obviously very concerned re links between NRL players & organised crime figures. I suspect this may be linked to illegal betting/fixing on NRL games, & possibly illegal drugs obtained directly from crime figures.
If either scenario is occuring, the NRL's, & GR RL's, reputation would be further severely tarnished.

Whilst the AFL has had, also, occasional links between AFL Club figures & organised crime figures, AFAIK, these links have been miniscule.
For P. V'landys, however, to express publicly his concerns, & for him to invite M. Fuller to join the ARLC to combat it, suggests that criminal links are now a real problem for the NRL (albeit it would be a very small no. of NRL players).
Doesn't this creat a conflict of interest for the copper? If NRL players are mixing with crooks, does he deal with it with interests in mind of the NRL or the community he is sworn to serve? St Kilda had this problem a few years back with a copper who was attached to the club if memory serves....
 

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