What are the chances of Footy overtaking league in NSW and Queensland?

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The_Wookie

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Jul 2, 2010
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He lives in Sydney & you believe fuzzy membership & auskick numbers
I repeat hes done this before. And if he believes his membership figures are wrong, then maybe Pridham can release the right ones for once.

As for fuzzy membership numbers, if you dont think all clubs at the professional level in Australia dont do the same thing the AFL clubs do, or wish they could, then you're an imbecile.

And no I dont count Auskick numbers - i believe registered club numbers to be the most accurate figure - but hey your chosen code DOES include volunteers and miniroos in its figures so....yeah.

Live crowds are misleading because afl has larger culture of attending games. Swan's chairman says himself that fans mistake this for widespread support.
Live crowds are the best measure we have. Its actual people going to actual games. Its a very tangible measure, unlike "fuzzy memberships" or participation numbers, or tv ratings surveys.

Pumping millions into expansion doesn't equal growth. Fact this continues after more than a decade says the opposite.
No, but more people participating, and more clubs opening, more teams established and actual increases in crowds and membership numbers DO indicate growth. You are just willfully ignoring the data.

NRL dominates the most viewed games in the country this year. If that's a sign of declining where does that leave afl?!
lol no they dont. its pretty even - AFL/NRL 5 of the top 10 - this doesnt include ANZAC day where the AFL game IS the actual top rating game of the year. And doesnt include current round.

ratings20212.png

Streaming figures in red are published Kayo data. Figures in blue use Fox group (Foxtel/Kayo/FoxNow/FoxGo) published averages for R1-6 of the NRL (372,000) and R1-5 of the AFL (253,000). This is likely inaccurate for this table as Thursday and Friday games tend to rate higher.

And you know where else the NRL dominate? nowhere. Crowds, gate takings, members, sponsorship, revenue (excluding pokies),

That's not true unless you exclude regionals, fox & whatever else. Report all the numbers.
YOU report all the numbers. If you did youd stop making stupid statements. 7 of the top 10 broadcast games this year are AFL ones.

Not all afl games overlap & NRL does higher fox numbers for individual games, so that's false too.
2 to 3 games a week do, and anywhere between 3-9 AFL games a week are simulcast on 7. Again, report all the numbers.

Don't know what swan's live crowd have to do with growth of NRL but afl crowds have been bigger than NRL for 25 years & yet tv viewership hasn't moved. Seems live crowds have nothing to do with growth of afl either... Just like Chairman said
And AFL crowds keep growing. As do clubs, registered players, and overall participation. increased numbers = growth in anyones book.

If you count regionals, fox etc you can't say an NRL game hasn't beaten an afl game head to head this year.
He said on a Thursday or Friday night. Learn to read.
But even then I think when streaming was included it has happened at least once.

Sunday avro NRL game is shown live on FTA yet still does bigger fox number than afl games. NRL owns fox & probably kayo, streaming etc.
Yeah its almost like the AFL is also shown on FTA where it almost always gets bigger numbers...

Swan's have always had bigger live crowds & members (whatever criteria they use to count them). As far as more local juniors playing for them than NRL teams is utter bulls...
Citation required.

Still has nothing with NRL's growth & AFL's inability to capture Sydney TV market.
Theres more to the game than just tv. And when you figure that out, get back to me. Otherwise this conversation is always going to be a waste of time.
 

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NoobPie

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If you count regionals, fox etc you can't say an NRL game hasn't beaten an afl game head to head this year.

I said thursday and friday nights and FTA and foxtel box (i.e. on the basis standard ratings are applied). Maybe they have pipped the AFL using streaming ratings (and forgetting the fact that an average of a 2 hour game is not like for like that of a 3 hour game)


Sunday avro NRL game is shown live on FTA yet still does bigger fox number than afl games.
Not even on fox last week, on a rare occasion there was not an overlapping game

NRL owns fox & probably kayo, streaming etc.
Haha, no but foxtel certainly owns the NRL 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

THe AFL is getting hundreds of millions more over the next few years from foxtel despite providing a far worse deal....and the NRL still needs to sell its parlous FTA rights!
 

Pippen94

Club Legend
Jun 12, 2019
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I repeat hes done this before. And if he believes his membership figures are wrong, then maybe Pridham can release the right ones for once.

As for fuzzy membership numbers, if you dont think all clubs at the professional level in Australia dont do the same thing the AFL clubs do, or wish they could, then you're an imbecile.

And no I dont count Auskick numbers - i believe registered club numbers to be the most accurate figure - but hey your chosen code DOES include volunteers and miniroos in its figures so....yeah.



Live crowds are the best measure we have. Its actual people going to actual games. Its a very tangible measure, unlike "fuzzy memberships" or participation numbers, or tv ratings surveys.



No, but more people participating, and more clubs opening, more teams established and actual increases in crowds and membership numbers DO indicate growth. You are just willfully ignoring the data.



lol no they dont. its pretty even - AFL/NRL 5 of the top 10 - this doesnt include ANZAC day where the AFL game IS the actual top rating game of the year. And doesnt include current round.

View attachment 1116743
Streaming figures in red are published Kayo data. Figures in blue use Fox group (Foxtel/Kayo/FoxNow/FoxGo) published averages for R1-6 of the NRL (372,000) and R1-5 of the AFL (253,000). This is likely inaccurate for this table as Thursday and Friday games tend to rate higher.

And you know where else the NRL dominate? nowhere. Crowds, gate takings, members, sponsorship, revenue (excluding pokies),



YOU report all the numbers. If you did youd stop making stupid statements. 7 of the top 10 broadcast games this year are AFL ones.



2 to 3 games a week do, and anywhere between 3-9 AFL games a week are simulcast on 7. Again, report all the numbers.



And AFL crowds keep growing. As do clubs, registered players, and overall participation. increased numbers = growth in anyones book.



He said on a Thursday or Friday night. Learn to read.
But even then I think when streaming was included it has happened at least once.



Yeah its almost like the AFL is also shown on FTA where it almost always gets bigger numbers...



Citation required.



Theres more to the game than just tv. And when you figure that out, get back to me. Otherwise this conversation is always going to be a waste of time.
You admit membership numbers are dodgy but participation figures are worse. Afl claims 1.7 million ppl are playing it's dangerous contact sport each week - no wonder country is in state that it is.

Any recent growth is distorted by emergence of women's game. Huge Penrith rugby league catchment boasted massive increase partly as result of this. Excluding this in traditional areas afl numbers actually declining.

Swan's chairman is speaking as Sydneysider & having been born & raised here I can tell you there is no culture of membership & mass attendance of games (& training sessions!!). That's an afl thing.

He's right because collectively the methods of viewing game can show nearly 500k Sydneysiders following some regular season NRL games. Afl numbers here only a fraction of that.

Excluding covid affected series last year State of Origin is biggest national football event on TV each year.
Despite attempts to dance around it NRL dominates on Fox, Kayo & streaming.
NRL has a greater regional presence with teams in Canberra, Newcastle, Townsville. NRL dominates TV ratings in regions.
NRL has greater international presence with the warriors, PNG in qld cup & shortly Fiji in NSW cup. Make up of NRL shows this with players from UK, NZ, Pacific etc.
NRL has higher percentage of Indigenous players & does better job of including ppl of different backgrounds. Koori Knockout is largest annual gathering of Indigenous ppl in the world. In 2015 opposing captains in grand final were both of Indigenous heritage, the same year Adam Goode's was booed out of afl.
In touch football NRL has a non contact version with huge participation numbers & growing. Surveys show touch players follow NRL in great numbers.

Not all about TV ratings.
 

NoobPie

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Sep 21, 2016
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You admit membership numbers are dodgy but participation figures are worse. Afl claims 1.7 million ppl are playing it's dangerous contact sport each week - no wonder country is in state that it is.

Any recent growth is distorted by emergence of women's game. Huge Penrith rugby league catchment boasted massive increase partly as result of this. Excluding this in traditional areas afl numbers actually declining.

Swan's chairman is speaking as Sydneysider & having been born & raised here I can tell you there is no culture of membership & mass attendance of games (& training sessions!!). That's an afl thing.

He's right because collectively the methods of viewing game can show nearly 500k Sydneysiders following some regular season NRL games. Afl numbers here only a fraction of that.

Excluding covid affected series last year State of Origin is biggest national football event on TV each year.
Despite attempts to dance around it NRL dominates on Fox, Kayo & streaming.
NRL has a greater regional presence with teams in Canberra, Newcastle, Townsville. NRL dominates TV ratings in regions.
NRL has greater international presence with the warriors, PNG in qld cup & shortly Fiji in NSW cup. Make up of NRL shows this with players from UK, NZ, Pacific etc.
NRL has higher percentage of Indigenous players & does better job of including ppl of different backgrounds. Koori Knockout is largest annual gathering of Indigenous ppl in the world. In 2015 opposing captains in grand final were both of Indigenous heritage, the same year Adam Goode's was booed out of afl.
In touch football NRL has a non contact version with huge participation numbers & growing. Surveys show touch players follow NRL in great numbers.

Not all about TV ratings.
🤣🤣🤣

Can anyone make any sense of this?

I'm genuinely starting to pity this guy
 

The_Wookie

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You admit membership numbers are dodgy but participation figures are worse. Afl claims 1.7 million ppl are playing it's dangerous contact sport each week - no wonder country is in state that it is.
I didnt admit membership numbers were dodgy at all. They arent what they used to be though. I said that everyone does them the same way.

Read past the headline to the details mate. People like you are why the country is the way it is. I did lol at "its dangerous contact sport".

Any recent growth is distorted by emergence of women's game. Huge Penrith rugby league catchment boasted massive increase partly as result of this. Excluding this in traditional areas afl numbers actually declining.
distorted? Growth is growth regardless of its demographics.

Swan's chairman is speaking as Sydneysider & having been born & raised here I can tell you there is no culture of membership & mass attendance of games (& training sessions!!). That's an afl thing.
Swans chairman is speaking as the Swans chairman. And I can tell you that while Sydneysiders and your friends and relatives may not have a culture of membership and mass attendance. The AFL does, and its reflected in its memberships and attendances oddly enough.

He's right because collectively the methods of viewing game can show nearly 500k Sydneysiders following some regular season NRL games. Afl numbers here only a fraction of that.
Read my lips. TV viewing is absolutely not everything.

Excluding covid affected series last year State of Origin is biggest national football event on TV each year.
Sure. We can ignore the AFL Grand Final if you want.

Despite attempts to dance around it NRL dominates on Fox, Kayo & streaming.
No one tried to dance around anything. As you put it "report all the numbers". And then you try this rubbish.

Various things no one mentioned or cares about here
In touch football NRL has a non contact version with huge participation numbers & growing. Surveys show touch players follow NRL in great numbers.
Which surveys would these be.

At least we can stop pretending your a soccer fan, league boy
 

Professor Knowall

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Another pretty much fact free post from Pip's alternative universe (though I note Pip seems to have finally joined everyone else in giving up on the A-League as a lost cause and reverted his to his NRL allegiance ) I love it!
...membership numbers are dodgy ...
I assume you're referring to NRL clubs here - because the financial returns clearly show that actual revenue from memberships for AFL clubs dwarf that of NRL clubs - even more than the given raw numbers of members would suggest. So if the AFL are somehow fudging their audited numbers, the NRL are fudging even more - it might be the one thing they're better at.
... Afl claims 1.7 million ppl are playing it's dangerous contact sport each week - no wonder country is in state that it is.
Hahaha - You might've accidentally made a good point here - Compared to most of the rest of the world, the country is in a pretty good shape right now, so maybe you're right, it's all because of our "dangerous" footy code that we're better off than the rest ... but if our code is dangerous, the English rugby codes must be downright deadly ... and heading in soccer must be immediately banned, I guess.
Any recent growth is distorted by emergence of women's game. ... Excluding this in traditional areas afl numbers actually declining
OK - So you, for whatever reason, have a problem with women and disdain including them, but so be it (perhaps it's only because AF women playing Numbers totally dwarf those playing RL) ... but even not counting them, Australian Football numbers in Melbourne are actually booming e.g. my own local inner suburban club, which 10 years had no juniors, now has multiple junior teams and have to spread games over Saturday and Sunday and this year even Friday evening/night to fit 'em all in - and numerous other clubs are experiencing the same "problem" - too many juniors, while soccer clubs are experiencing big drop-offs this year. And then there's this from the 'AF Grassroots' thread, showing the nationwide surge in club team numbers -
It appears the Auskick investment is now paying massive dividends with the surge in club partipation, with so many of those little kids growing up and joining their local club.

... Sydneysider & having been born & raised here I can tell you there is no culture of membership & mass attendance of games (& training sessions!!). That's an afl thing
Indeed, it is an AFL thing, even in Sydney (see - I'll acknowledge the few things you get right). But why is it so? Why do AFL crowds dwarf the other codes in Australia? Why do the Sydney Swans crowd average exceed all the Sydney NRL clubs while the always successful Melbourne Storm is less than all the Melbourne AFL clubs. It seems that when exposed to the game live, so many find it a much more satisfying and attractive game to watch live than any of the English codes.

So thanks again, Pip, for the opportunity of addressing just a few of your wishful fantasies. I'm tempted to come back with more.
 

NoobPie

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lol no they dont. its pretty even - AFL/NRL 5 of the top 10 - this doesnt include ANZAC day where the AFL game IS the actual top rating game of the year. And doesnt include current round.

View attachment 1116743
Streaming figures in red are published Kayo data. Figures in blue use Fox group (Foxtel/Kayo/FoxNow/FoxGo) published averages for R1-6 of the NRL (372,000) and R1-5 of the AFL (253,000). This is likely inaccurate for this table as Thursday and Friday games tend to rate higher.
Just on this, some no doubt unwanted advice

I think your stream estimates are clearly off the mark for the AFL. Most blatantly, it is risible to think that the Port Richmond game only rated 15K on streaming

The AFL might have rated an average 253K across all matches but, as is often discussed around here, these numbers are dragged down particularly by overlapping games but also more games in rating deadzones like 145 Saturday and 105 Sunday. Conversely, foxtel having prime time stand alone games on Saturday in the NRL could mean that some simulcast games on Thursday and Friday nights are perhaps unlikely to even outperform the averages.

A more plausible estimate would be to work out the average streaming share from R1-5 (and R1-6 for the NRL) and inflate on that ratio. For instance, if the AFL foxtel average was 170K between rounds 1 to 5, then the stream percentage would be around 50% of the foxtel box ratings. A more plausible estimate for the Port Richmond game would be 119K

Indeed if you look at the four games with Kayo data, the implication is that the AFL Kayo streaming was 54% compared to 41% for the league
 

The_Wookie

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Jul 2, 2010
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Just on this, some no doubt unwanted advice
Not just unwanted. It was also entirely unnessary.

The explanatory note below the figure literally says the average is likely to prove inadequate or do you simply not read what you responmd to?

Streaming figures in red are published Kayo data. Figures in blue use Fox group (Foxtel/Kayo/FoxNow/FoxGo) published averages for R1-6 of the NRL (372,000) and R1-5 of the AFL (253,000). This is likely inaccurate for this table as Thursday and Friday games tend to rate higher.
I think your stream estimates are clearly off the mark for the AFL. Most blatantly, it is risible to think that the Port Richmond game only rated 15K on streaming
Not my estimates, its a Fox Group supplied average for ALL AFL games in the first 5 rounds, and in this case used in the absence of any other meaningful data. As it literally says in the explantory notes.
 

NoobPie

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 21, 2016
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Not just unwanted. It was also entirely unnessary.

The explanatory note below the figure literally says the average is likely to prove inadequate or do you simply not read what you responmd to?
No, I read it. You've provided estimates for streaming that could be far better if you used a better method (rather than an illogical one). I obviously read the explanatory note because I clearly indicated that I understood your method you used to base your estimates on.

The implication of your "method" is you would estimate that the Adelaide Giants game would have had 201K streaming on Saturday......compared to 15K for the replay of last years prelim....

Not my estimates,
Of course they are your estimates!!!!????


its a Fox Group supplied average for ALL AFL games in the first 5 rounds, and in this case used in the absence of any other meaningful data. As it literally says in the explantory notes.
That's the data you made your estimates on. Good lord you can't not get this surely?
 

BringBackTorps

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Jan 5, 2017
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1. Daily Telegraph P. Rothfield 3.5.21

Rothfield is advocating a "revolution"- that the NRL should shrink to greatness, by reducing the NRL to 14 teams.

Also, introduce a new "Championship" of 10 teams- North Sydney, Newtown, Central Coast, & new Country team (based in Riverina, to counter AF's ascendancy- but playing also in Bathurst, Coffs Harbour etc.); & Brisbane 2, Mackay, NZ 2, & Perth.
There would be Promotion & Relegation each year- so perhaps Canterbury & West Tigers get relegated.

Joining the large list (c. 30) of MSM NRL experts lamenting the decline of skill standards in the NRL, he said

"...there are not enough quality players for to fill 16 teams, let alone 18 [if the NRL expanded]. The gap between the top & bottom teams is too great".



"NRL 2021: Buzz Rothfield’s promotion, relegation system for rugby league
The future of rugby league has been the subject of much debate around conferences, expansion and bush footy. Here’s a solution, via BUZZ ROTHFIELD.

Phil Rothfield



Bring back the North Sydney Bears and, while we’re at it, the Newtown Jets.
And do it without affecting the quality of the NRL competition.

The future of rugby league has been the subject of much debate around conferences, expansion, a lopsided competition and the survival of bush footy.
One option the NRL should consider is promotion and relegation like in UK soccer.
Relegate two clubs to have a streamlined 14-team NRL premiership and a 10-team Championship (2nd division.)

Here’s how it would work.

BETTER FOOTY
The two-conference proposal first raised seven years ago in this newspaper will not improve the standard of the product each week.
It will actually make it worse in that there are not enough quality football players to fill 16 teams, let alone 18.
The gap between the top and bottom teams is too great. We see it every week.
Reducing the number of teams will create a much stronger NRL competition[Yes] with fewer blowouts and more regular blockbusters.
Players that aren’t quite first graders can join a Championship.

THE DESPERATION
There would be as much interest in the bottom end of the ladder as the top.
Lower teams would be as desperate to avoid relegation as top clubs are to make the finals.
It would add huge interest at the back end of the season to games that are normally dead rubbers.
This will surely increase the quality of football, attendances and television ratings.
Imagine the interest if St George-Illawarra was playing the Wests Tigers and needed to win to avoid relegation in the final round. You’d need a big stadium.

DETAILS AT A GLANCE
* Initially two teams relegated from bottom of the ladder
* 1 team promoted and relegated each year
* 14 strong NRL clubs
* New 10-team Championship (2nd division)
* Not as many blowouts
* More blockbuster games
* Huge interest in bottom placed NRL teams late in season
* Huge interest in top Championship teams late in season
* Brings back the Bears and Newtown
* Puts the onus on the clubs to get their houses in order
* Massive boost for bush football
* League on the Central Coast
* Loan player arrangements for promoted clubs
* Championship match of the round on TV Wednesday nights


DEMOTED NRL CLUBS
The bottom two teams on the premiership ladder would initially drop to The Championship.
Then the bottom team each year would be relegated.
It sounds harsh and there would no doubt be met with outrage by fans of underperforming NRL clubs like the Wests Tigers, the Canterbury Bulldogs or even the Cronulla Sharks.
However tough and not always fan-friendly calls need to be made.
Uncompetitive teams on the receiving end of blowouts each week are hurting the quality of the NRL
Let them go back to The Championship, get their house in order, then try to make it back through better management.
This will force them to think smarter and run a business as well as clubs like the Roosters, Rabbitohs, Storm and the Parramatta Eels.

THE PLAYERS
So what happens to the star NRL players from the clubs that are demoted?
The players could be lent to clubs in the NRL competition. Like Melbourne Storm, the Wests Tigers and Harry Grant last year. It can be done.
The promoted Championship club each year would get first crack in a draft for these players.
NRL 14-TEAM COMP
$10 million salary cap
Teams: Panthers, Storm, Eels, Roosters, Raiders, Rabbitohs, Knights, Sharks, Titans
Warriors, Manly, Dragons, Broncos, Cowboys
* Play each other twice
* Top 5 finals series
* Bottom team drops to Championship


THE CHAMPIONSHIP
Imagine the excitement around a fairytale return for traditional old clubs like the North Sydney Bears and the Newtown Jets.
While these clubs at the moment are nowhere near in a position to be running an NRL side, this at least leaves the door ever so slightly ajar for it to happen in the future.
Both clubs still have enormous fan bases.
The Championship 10-team competition would also put rugby league back on the Central Coast.
This is a thriving rugby league area but lacks enough corporate support to have an NRL franchise. This would change if they won The Championship.
It would also be a way help new expansion clubs like a second Brisbane or New Zealand team get their introductions into a professional environment.
Teams would have a salary cap of $4 million [Inc. Football Depts., who funds all this?].
CHAMPIONSHIP 10-TEAM COMP
$4 million salary cap
Teams: Wests Tigers, 2nd Brisbane team, Bulldogs, Wellington (NZ), NSW Country, Perth, Central Coast, North Sydney Bears, Newtown, Mackay


NSW COUNTRY
This would give country football the lift and revitalisation it so desperately needs.
The side could be based out of the Riverina, (population 155,000) and once a rugby league heartland [No- AF always dominant] before the AFL steamrolled into Wagga Wagga.
It could be a satellite team playing home games in country towns like Dubbo, Bathurst, Mudgee, Tamworth, Armidale [In New England, Group19 had to fold its U19 comp. in 2021- only 1 club could field a team] and Coffs Harbour but the majority of games out of the Riverina.[Much travelling!]
It would mean high quality rugby league in the bush every weekend.[No- home games only] Youngsters in country towns would dream[?] of making the side and getting TV exposure along a pathway to the NRL.


TV COVERAGE
Having two competitions would allow the NRL to spread the coverage of the game around the TV networks, like what happens with major sport in the United States.
All Championship matches would be covered on TV as well as NRL.
The match of the round could become a regular Wednesday night game on Fox Sports.

There will be initial pain but tough decisions need to be made in big business and in sport (words in brackets, & emphases mine)".




2. The collapse of GR club & school male contact RL nos. in Greater Sydney (excluding Penrith District RL comp.), the Gold Coast- Greater Brisbane- Sunshine Coast corridor, ACT, & many parts of rural & regional NSW & Qld. is certainly resulting in an extensive range of views/solutions (inc. a NZ NRL team) as to how the NRL can extricate GR RL itself from this situation.
Ditto the decline in NRL skill standards, & too many blowouts.

How popular would this Second Division Championship be, re crowds/ratings/sponsor funding, & MSM interest?

How expensive would it be to send all its teams around Aust. & NZ, pay for accomodation etc.? And can the NRL afford such expenses?

Would plan reverse the decline in NRL skill standards, & reduce blowouts, in a 14 team comp.? Probably.

What would happen to the popularity of RL in Qld. if the Broncos got relegated!? Probably crash. Or effects on RL in Gold Coast if Titans relegated?
Ditto Parra & Souths in NSW?

Would it increase GR male contact RL nos.? Sydney has 8.5 teams, but its GR male nos. have still collapsed? Ditto SEQ, where the NRL dominates MSM.
 
Last edited:

General Giant

Hall of Famer
Apr 12, 2012
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Daily Telegraph P. Rothfield 3.5.21

Rothfield is advocating that the NRL should shrink to greatness- by reducing the NRL to 14 teams.

Also, introduce a new "Championship" of 10 teams- North Sydney, Newtown, Central Coast, & new Country team playing in Riverina, Bathurst, Coffs Harbour etc.; & Brisbane 2, Mackay, NZ 2, & Perth.
There would be promotion & Relegation each year- so perhaps Canterbury & West Tigers get relegated.

Joining the large list of MSM NRL experts lamenting the decline of skill standards in the NRL, he said

"...there are not enough quality players for to fill 16 teams, let alone 18 [if the NRL expanded]. The gap between the top & bottom teams is too great".

NRL 2021: Buzz Rothfield’s promotion, relegation system for rugby league
The future of rugby league has been the subject of much debate around conferences, expansion and bush footy. Here’s a solution, via BUZZ ROTHFIELD.

Phil RothfieldPhil Rothfield
Follow
@BuzzRothfield

NRL: A proposed conference-style system being adopted in the NRL has been met with a mixed response.



Bring back the North Sydney Bears and, while we’re at it, the Newtown Jets.
And do it without affecting the quality of the NRL competition.
The future of rugby league has been the subject of much debate around conferences, expansion, a lopsided competition and the survival of bush footy.
One option the NRL should consider is promotion and relegation like in UK soccer.
Watch The 2021 NRL Telstra Premiership Live & On-Demand with No Ad-Breaks During Play. New to Kayo? Try 14-Days Free Now >
Relegate two clubs to have a streamlined 14-team NRL premiership and a 10-team Championship (2nd division.)
Here’s how it would work.
Buzz Rothfield has proposed an NRL revolution.

Buzz Rothfield has proposed an NRL revolution.
BETTER FOOTY
The two-conference proposal first raised seven years ago in this newspaper will not improve the standard of the product each week.
It will actually make it worse in that there are not enough quality football players to fill 16 teams, let alone 18.
The gap between the top and bottom teams is too great. We see it every week.
Reducing the number of teams will create a much stronger NRL competition with fewer blowouts and more regular blockbusters.
Players that aren’t quite first graders can join a Championship team.
Melbourne Storm celebrate the 2020 premiership (Photo by Cameron Spencer/Getty Images)

Melbourne Storm celebrate the 2020 premiership (Photo by Cameron Spencer/Getty Images)
THE DESPERATION
There would be as much interest in the bottom end of the ladder as the top.
Lower teams would be as desperate to avoid relegation as top clubs are to make the finals.
It would add huge interest at the back end of the season to games that are normally dead rubbers.
This will surely increase the quality of football, attendances and television ratings.
Imagine the interest if St George-Illawarra was playing the Wests Tigers and needed to win to avoid relegation in the final round. You’d need a big stadium.
DETAILS AT A GLANCE
* Initially two teams relegated from bottom of the ladder
* 1 team promoted and relegated each year
* 14 strong NRL clubs
* New 10-team Championship (2nd division)
* Not as many blowouts
* More blockbuster games
* Huge interest in bottom placed NRL teams late in season
* Huge interest in top Championship teams late in season
* Brings back the Bears and Newtown
* Puts the onus on the clubs to get their houses in order
* Massive boost for bush football
* League on the Central Coast
* Loan player arrangements for promoted clubs
* Championship match of the round on TV Wednesday nights


DEMOTED NRL CLUBS
The bottom two teams on the premiership ladder would initially drop to The Championship.
Then the bottom team each year would be relegated.
It sounds harsh and there would no doubt be met with outrage by fans of underperforming NRL clubs like the Wests Tigers, the Canterbury Bulldogs or even the Cronulla Sharks.
However tough and not always fan-friendly calls need to be made.
Uncompetitive teams on the receiving end of blowouts each week are hurting the quality of the NRL competition.
Newtown Jets would return under this proposal.

Newtown Jets would return under this proposal.
Let them go back to The Championship, get their house in order, then try to make it back through better management.
This will force them to think smarter and run a business as well as clubs like the Roosters, Rabbitohs, Storm and the Parramatta Eels.
THE PLAYERS
So what happens to the star NRL players from the clubs that are demoted?
The players could be lent to clubs in the NRL competition. Like Melbourne Storm, the Wests Tigers and Harry Grant last year. It can be done.
The promoted Championship club each year would get first crack in a draft for these players.
NRL 14-TEAM COMP
$10 million salary cap
Teams: Panthers, Storm, Eels, Roosters, Raiders, Rabbitohs, Knights, Sharks, Titans
Warriors, Manly, Dragons, Broncos, Cowboys
* Play each other twice
* Top 5 finals series
* Bottom team drops to Championship


THE CHAMPIONSHIP
Imagine the excitement around a fairytale return for traditional old clubs like the North Sydney Bears and the Newtown Jets.
While these clubs at the moment are nowhere near in a position to be running an NRL side, this at least leaves the door ever so slightly ajar for it to happen in the future.
Both clubs still have enormous fan bases.
The Championship 10-team competition would also put rugby league back on the Central Coast.
This is a thriving rugby league area but lacks enough corporate support to have an NRL franchise. This would change if they won The Championship.
It would also be a way help new expansion clubs like a second Brisbane or New Zealand team get their introductions into a professional environment.
Teams would have a salary cap of $4 million.
CHAMPIONSHIP 10-TEAM COMP
$4 million salary cap
Teams: Wests Tigers, 2nd Brisbane team, Bulldogs, Wellington (NZ), NSW Country, Perth, Central Coast, North Sydney Bears, Newtown, Mackay


NSW COUNTRY
This would give country football the lift and revitalisation it so desperately needs.
The side could be based out of the Riverina, (population 155,000) and once a rugby league heartland before the AFL steamrolled into Wagga Wagga.
It could be a satellite team playing home games in country towns like Dubbo, Bathurst, Mudgee, Tamworth, Armidale and Coffs Harbour but the majority of games out of the Riverina.
It would mean high quality rugby league in the bush every weekend. Youngsters in country towns would dream of making the side and getting TV exposure along a pathway to the NRL.


TV COVERAGE
Having two competitions would allow the NRL to spread the coverage of the game around the TV networks, like what happens with major sport in the United States.
All Championship matches would be covered on TV as well as NRL.
The match of the round could become a regular Wednesday night game on Fox Sports.

There will be initial pain but tough decisions need to be made in big business and in sport.


Bottom 2 clubs are Brisbane and Bulldogs.
 

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Gigantor

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2012
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This idea is actually a better one than the conference idea.
I think it could work in the NRL.
Two reasons why:
1. 2nd tier rugby league gets a fair bit of interest, so it has a better chance of generating broadcast dollars than, say, a soccer 2nd division (although it still wouldn't be a lot of money)
2. squads are smallish (compared to the AFL), and what''s more, you only need to add a few key players if you were getting promoted from the 2nd division to the first to be competitive. Presumably, player contracts would be drawn up in such a way that top line players could move from relegated clubs to newly promoted clubs.
Also, all the clubs, even the 2nd division clubs would probably have the support of pokies revenue, so they'd have the capacity to fund it.
Lastly, the top tier of rugby league gets by fine with smallish crowds, so if a 2nd division was attracting, say, 2 or 3 thousand, that's probably quite acceptable.
I'm not saying it would increase current interest in the NRL by a whole lot, but just saying they could probably make this idea work, probably more so than what soccer can make it work (in this country).
Another point is that all the clubs are located on the East coast, so that makes it easier to do as well (although having multiple NZ clubs in the mix would not help).
 

Canberra Pear

Senior List
Nov 26, 2016
161
190
Canberra, ACT
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Bottom 2 clubs are Brisbane and Bulldogs.
Could you imagine the Broncos relegated and no top tier RL team in Brisbane? Would be a massive free kick to the Lions!

From the Championship point of view, I actually like the idea of a Riverina team (from an RL perspective). The Raiders have been playing an annual game in Wagga lately and it is a contested area. Another reason why I want a Canberra AFL team playing an annual game out of Wagga.

There was a representative Riverina AF team in AFL Canberra, but I believe the Riverina Lions were just to help kickstart women's footy in the region. I'd like to see a full-time Riverina Lions in div 1 of AFL Canberra men's and women's.
 

Rob

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 8, 2000
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Could you imagine the Broncos relegated and no top tier RL team in Brisbane? Would be a massive free kick to the Lions!

From the Championship point of view, I actually like the idea of a Riverina team (from an RL perspective). The Raiders have been playing an annual game in Wagga lately and it is a contested area. Another reason why I want a Canberra AFL team playing an annual game out of Wagga.

There was a representative Riverina AF team in AFL Canberra, but I believe the Riverina Lions were just to help kickstart women's footy in the region. I'd like to see a full-time Riverina Lions in div 1 of AFL Canberra men's and women's.
Wagga Tigers played in the Canberra league not all that long ago (15 years or so?) then went back to the Riverina league. Not sure why. But I reckon a genuine Riverina team in the Canberra League would probably be too strong, they'd be better off playing in the VFL.
 

General Giant

Hall of Famer
Apr 12, 2012
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Could you imagine the Broncos relegated and no top tier RL team in Brisbane? Would be a massive free kick to the Lions!

From the Championship point of view, I actually like the idea of a Riverina team (from an RL perspective). The Raiders have been playing an annual game in Wagga lately and it is a contested area. Another reason why I want a Canberra AFL team playing an annual game out of Wagga.

There was a representative Riverina AF team in AFL Canberra, but I believe the Riverina Lions were just to help kickstart women's footy in the region. I'd like to see a full-time Riverina Lions in div 1 of AFL Canberra men's and women's.
Of course but If you think a club will go willingly to relegation that isn’t bottom 2 just for “reasons” you don’t know the rugby league clubs.
 

Professor Knowall

Premiership Player
Sep 24, 2006
3,174
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Wimmera
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Collingwood
Sorry - I couldn't help myself - I admit I enjoy replying to Pippen's nonsense (when time allows) probably just a little too much -
Excluding covid affected series last year State of Origin is biggest national football event on TV each year.
... well apart from the AFL Grand Final (which was so far ahead of the NRL GF it wasn't a contest) - and when all the AFL final matches went head to head with the NRL finals how did the ratings go? hint - you were right to not mention that - it was a smashing.
...Despite attempts to dance around it NRL dominates on Fox, Kayo & streaming...
So why does Foxtel pay the AFL hundreds of millions more than the NRL for their rights? Maybe they know how many subscribe for each code and see it differently than you? Overall, including everything, AFL clearly has many more watching on TV, hence why they always secure much more in rights. Quite simple.
... NRL has a greater regional presence with teams in Canberra, Newcastle, Townsville. ...
Cool, ok - AFL dominates the big capital cities where all the money is, NRL dominate the much smaller regionals. We agree on this, then.
... NRL dominates TV ratings in regions...
Sure do - well apart from places like Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo, Albury-Wodonga, Mandurah, Mildura, Shepparton and the rest of country Bicoria etc ... not to mention the Northern Territory ... then there's the entire state of Tasmania.
... NRL has greater international presence with the warriors, PNG in qld cup & shortly Fiji in NSW cup. Make up of NRL shows this with players from UK, NZ, Pacific etc...
Sure - being an English sport that's no surprise. But if we all just supported a code based on its "international presence", we'd all be following soccer - or if we preferred a more robust sport, RU, which dwarfs NRL internationally. But, just as American football is the biggest code in the USA, Australian Football is (appropriately) Australia's most popular code - by
a big margin. Meanwhile I'm sure NRL is the biggest code ... I guess somewhere in some third world country?
... NRL has higher percentage of Indigenous players ...
I thought I'd have to concede this point, given that NSW/ACT/Qld has about 2 and a half times the indigenous population as Vic/SA/WA combined (of which half live in WA) - 494,544 v 200,544, according to the ABS -
But on a whim I checked out the numbers of indigenous players in the AFL and NRL - and guess what? - I found that Pip just told another great big whoppa! Despite the demographic advantage of 2.5 to 1, there's actually (and remarkably) many more indigenous players in the AFL (87) than NRL (a mere 58) -
Now given the very large indigenous populations in NSW and Qld, as outlined above (2.5 to 1), clearly the NRL ought to have far more indigenous players than the AFL, not far less. So why don't they? It seems there's some sort of systemic racism in the NRL preventing indigenous players from being recruited - perhapsthis needs to be looked at?
... NRL ... does better job of including ppl of different backgrounds. ...
Do they? - sure, they get players from rugby playing England and Pacific Islands - just like RU does - that's so easy.
But what about other backgrounds? Do you want to compare the numbers of African background players (even "racist" Collingwood has 1) or Asian backgrounds - How many Vietnamese background players, Filipinos (yep - the Pies have 1), Irish backgrounds (2 more at the Pies - heck we even have a Texan). Hint - I don't think you'll like the comparison much, Pip.
... In touch football NRL has a non contact version with huge participation numbers & growing. Surveys show touch players follow NRL in great numbers.
Lol - now that's about the ultimate in desperation - but thanks yet again for all the fun I get here, Pip. You provide the perfect excuse to post this sort of stuff. Are you sure you're not a double troll from AFL house?
 

RedV3x

Club Legend
Dec 14, 2015
2,683
629
AFL Club
Fremantle
Sure - being an English sport that's no surprise. But if we all just supported a code based on its "international presence", we'd all be following soccer - or if we preferred a more robust sport, RU, which dwarfs NRL internationally. But, just as American football is the biggest code in the USA, Australian Football is (appropriately) Australia's most popular code - by
a big margin. Meanwhile I'm sure NRL is the biggest code ... I guess somewhere in some third world country?
Whilst soccer is played around the world, it is not popular uniformly around the world and most places where soccer is popular it is rather subdued.
American Football is played in about 80 countries and has a lot more registered players than rugby.
Rugby Union is played in more countries but the biggest country where RU dominates is the small country of New Zealand.
Australian Football is played regularly in over 55 countries around the world with the most passionate country being Nauru.
Gaelic Football is played regularly in about 60 countries around the world.
It's hard to tell where RL is played because once you're federated you're considered to be a nation that plays RL.

Meanwhile I'm sure NRL is the biggest code ... I guess somewhere in some third world country?
Actually it's PNG, but it wasn't always the case. AR was the dominant football there until somebody beamed in the NSWRL.
That is changing and AR has become popular again with a number of PNG players playing in Australian leagues.
 

RedV3x

Club Legend
Dec 14, 2015
2,683
629
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Fremantle
NRL has ........
What are you actually trying to say, because you're talking to the wrong people ?

Why don't you ask AFL fans why they attend in such high numbers.
Why don't you ask NRL fans why they attend in such low numbers.
Why don't you ask AFL fans why they become members in such high numbers.
Why don't you ask NRL fans why they become members in such low numbers.
Why don't you ask AFL sponsors why they sponsor in such high numbers.
Why don't you ask NRL sponsors why they sponsor in such low numbers.
Why don't you ask AFL fans why they attend games in Sydney.
Why don't you ask NRL fans why they don't attend games in Sydney.

You are ranting that NRL is so much better than AFL. Why aren't the results of this not more apparent ?
Is it that Sydney-siders don't appreciate these things you state ?
Is it that Sydney-siders don't like RL but rather they are more consumed in NSW Vs Qld rivalry ?
Even AFL has decent crowds when it come s NSW vs Qld rivalry.
 

BringBackTorps

Club Legend
Jan 5, 2017
2,509
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GWS
A. Voss on 28.4.21, re NRL expansion, has "... concerns we don't have enough talent to spread around the competition that's got more teams".

He also says there must be a revival in Country Rugby League, & an increase in jnr nos. or expansion will fail. "Forget about expansion being sustained".

And Brisbane 2 "...is a lock" (certainty), & NZ is the "favourite" location for an 18th team.

 
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NoobPie

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 21, 2016
6,702
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It's hard to tell where RL is played because once you're federated you're considered to be a nation that plays RL.
From what I've seen a fair bit of rugby league activity is small 8 week competitions presumably largely of rugby union players in their off season
 

Gigantor

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2012
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In terms of the international game, League has the advantage of being closely related to Rugby, so anywhere there's a game of rugby being played, you have ready-made candidates to pretty much take up League instantaneously.
I guess that can also be a disadvantaged. If you have a country where rugby is a minor sport, you can imagine the players legitimately asking what the point is of having an alternative form of rugby?
 

RedV3x

Club Legend
Dec 14, 2015
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Fremantle
In terms of the international game, League has the advantage of being closely related to Rugby, so anywhere there's a game of rugby being played, you have ready-made candidates to pretty much take up League instantaneously.
That is logically true but not in reality. That's like saying GAA is a farm for AFL.

If you have a country where rugby is a minor sport,
That is any country bigger than N.Z.

you can imagine the players legitimately asking what the point is of having an alternative form of rugby?
It comes down to numbers a lot of time.
American Football requires well upwards of 22 players.
Rugby Union and Gaelic Football needs a bare minimum of 15 players.
Rugby League needs a bare minimum of 13 players.
Soccer needs a bare minimum of 11 players.
Australian Football used to require a bare minimum of 14 players, usually 18 players
but the popularity of 9-a-side Australian Football has seen Australian Football well positioned to grow in small units.
 

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