Footy Developments in NSW and Queensland

[NoobPie]

You can't even get that right

I thought you said you were leaving?

Listen dude, i responded to you respectfully twice. You thought I was wrong and I explained how I wasn't.

For some reason me maintaining my original point has agitated you enough to saying you were going to avoid the thread.....and now you are trolling me

I reckon you should just be a "man" of your word and run along

 

[NoobPie]

Ironic given the amount of, "AFL is going to die, football will take over". And, "cannot wait until AFL and NRL fade away", posts that infested virtually every thread of Four Four Two for years, and not just on threads relating to other codes, but virtually every sport industry related thread.

What does it say of the average soccer fans belief in the A league that they thought other codes would need to die for them to prosper.

What does it say that they saw the destruction of other codes as something to be hoped for, for its own sake, irrespective of it's affect on the A league.

Haven't seen anyone here saying they foresee, or would enjoy, the NRL or A league being destroyed.

I don't enjoy all sports, but I have never wished for a sports demise, can you say the same?


On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

Full and honest admission.

I would rather the NRL get weaker for the benefit of the AFL (and to a lessor extent to the benefit of union). Don't expect other AFL fans let-alone NRL fans to share that desire.....but I've never set up an account on league unlimited to get in their faces about it.

A significant part of me gets a buzz out of the A League's decline because of people like Pippen94 and the types you have mentioned that infest four four two. I actually really like soccer as a sport and was a fan of the A League in the early years.....

 

[Pippen94]

This thread was actually getting some really good information and analysis around Rugby League's attempts to bring in another Brisbane team, because of their concerns over the AFL's continued growth in SE QLD and lack of their own growth in the same areas. The only negativity that's come into the thread has come from you, to be perfectly honest. Just settle it down a bit and I'm sure you'll be able to contribute to the thread rather than smashing it to pieces.

That's not true - ppl talking about clubs not being viable & being eliminated. Links in this thread almost exclusively relate to negative stories on other codes. Nothing to do with growth of sport

 

[The_Wookie]

NRL is no.1 code in part of country with over 50% of population. This area is growing faster than anywhere else. Afl needs to throw money at these areas otherwise it risks being stuck being regional game in not even half of a small country. Interesting only ppl who believe game is growing are fans here. See what swans chairman says.

Actually I think you'll find that Melbourne is Australia’s fastest growing city, and Victoria is Australia’s fastest growing state, but hey whatever.

 

[The_Wookie]

That's not true - ppl talking about clubs not being viable & being eliminated. Links in this thread almost exclusively relate to negative stories on other codes. Nothing to do with growth of sport

then go somwhere where they post information you do like. I grow weary of this.

 

[NoobPie]

That's not true - ppl talking about clubs not being viable & being eliminated. Links in this thread almost exclusively relate to negative stories on other codes. Nothing to do with growth of sport

I've created a thread for your pleasure

 

[Pippen94]

Actually I think you'll find that Melbourne is Australia’s fastest growing city, and Victoria is Australia’s fastest growing state, but hey whatever.

NSW & Qld combined growing faster than rest

 

[Pippen94]

Ironic given the amount of, "AFL is going to die, football will take over". And, "cannot wait until AFL and NRL fade away", posts that infested virtually every thread of Four Four Two for years, and not just on threads relating to other codes, but virtually every sport industry related thread.

What does it say of the average soccer fans belief in the A league that they thought other codes would need to die for them to prosper.

What does it say that they saw the destruction of other codes as something to be hoped for, for its own sake, irrespective of it's affect on the A league.

Haven't seen anyone here saying they foresee, or would enjoy, the NRL or A league being destroyed.

I don't enjoy all sports, but I have never wished for a sports demise, can you say the same?


On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

NRL talk of expansion in Brisbane has nothing to do with that. Slumping Broncos show ratings suffer without 2nd biggest performing.
In fact NRL reluctant to expand to wa & sa because it can see the type of money afl spends for so little return in northern states

 

[NoobPie]

NRL talk of expansion in Brisbane has nothing to do with that. Slumping Broncos show ratings suffer without 2nd biggest performing.
In fact NRL reluctant to expand to wa & sa because it can see the type of money afl spends for so little return in northern states

...because the NRL is consolidating / holding ground while the AFL is growing / expanding

 

[BringBackTorps]

Nothing to do with growth of sport[of AF]. -[Another lie- plenty in this thread re growth of AF]

This Thread has much information & links on AF's "growth of sport" in Qld- your usual trolling of AF (a sport & Swans you pretend to be a fan of).
It is you who is regularly being misleading, & cherrypicking your preferred facts; & ignoring those facts which don't support your anti-AF narrative.

In the Industry Forum Thread "A 3rd Team in Sydney, Its Only A Matter of Time", you have regularly denied (& tried to troll) the:-
. significant growth of GR AF in Sydney/NSW/ACT since 2012.
. the significant long term decline of GR jnr & snr male contact RL & RU in NSW/ACT.

In that Thread, there are 20+ separate reports & links from expert RL, RU, & soccer MSM journalists & RL, RU & soccer ex-players/Officials recognising the significant NSW/ACT decline of GR (male) contact RL & RU; &/or strong rise of GR AF in NSW/ACT.

When I challenged your trolling in that Thread, & directly asked you - c. 7 times- to respond the aforementioned (by actually addressing my specific questions to you, in my posts to you #726 874 937 1250 1351 1372 3278), you have constantly refused.
Virtually all in that Thread know you are trolling- your soccer allegiance appears to be the motivation (& possibly your English immigrant background has also played a part). You have a palpable fear of the growth of AF in NSW & Qld.


I will ask you 5 further questions on new issues...hope springs eternal.

1 & 2.
It is well known that a sport on a secondary channel often rates 3-4 time worse than exactly the same sport, cf. if it were to appear on the Main channel at exactly the same time & day.
And given that AFL matches in Brisbane & Sydney are on secondary Channels, their ratings are respectable in a new expansion market?
Do you dispute these 2 points- if so, on what basis?

3.
NoobPie & Rob have provided detailed analysis (in the "Sydney 3rd Team" Thread & "Non-AFL Ratings etc." Thread) from MediaSpy Ratings (provider of Ratings' age demographics) that "AFL telecasts skew young in Brisbane"; & that NRL telecasts have, relatively to AFL, a much older demographic- over 55 y.o.
Do you dispute this- if so, on what basis?

4.
And given that NRL attracts, relatively to AFL, an older watching demographic, NRL viewing may be facing a demographic time bomb in the medium to long ie NRL viewing nos. are likely to experience a much larger net decline.
Do you dispute this- if so, on what basis?

5.
The QRL stated on 24.7.20 that the Rugby League Brisbane Juniors comp. only had c. 5000 RL contact player, for U6 - U12, in 498 teams, in all of Greater Brisbane (excluding Ipswich & Ipswich JRL nos.). Link in my post#110.
This statement is extraordinary, & almost shocking. Greater Brisbane is a RL-heartland city of 2.2m . The U13- U18 RLBJ comp. nos were also dismal- far worse!
Do you dispute this- if so,on what basis?

 

[jatz14]

NRL talk of expansion in Brisbane has nothing to do with that. Slumping Broncos show ratings suffer without 2nd biggest performing.
In fact NRL reluctant to expand to wa & sa because it can see the type of money afl spends for so little return in northern states

Your going the Trump route?

Just say stuff, hope people buy it.

Brave.

 

[BringBackTorps]

I said nothing Chairman of swans hasn't.

6. Another lie. Where has the Swans Chairman made all your many dozens of anti-AF claims?

You can't play rugby or soccer on those fields?? That's what they'll be used for most[Another lie]

Some more new questions for you.
7. What evidence, with links, do you have to make this claim re higher useage by other sports of the new AF ovals being built in Moreton Bay?


8. In my post#130 above, QRL Chairman B. Hatcher & Ch. 9 Director Of Sport T. Malone have both said they are opposed to the NRL increasing above 16 teams. Why?
9. Are they experts in this area? And should their opposition to the NRL increasing to more than 16 teams be given strong consideration?


10. Daily Telegraph P. Kent 7.12.18

In the (google search) article description, it says

"Tired of having to fudge the junior numbers, the NRL is finally addressing the decreasing number of young players in the game".

Kent continues on to write in the article that the NRL is fudging its official regd. "participant" nos. by adding non-contact touch/tag players, & one-off RL Gala Days, community events etc. to its total no. of participants. And then the NRL proclaims record officia regd. nos.!

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

No Cookies

www.dailytelegraph.com.au

(Behind a paywall- can anyone open, & link here please)


21.4.20
Former Penrith NRL Captain & RL legend, & current Penrith District JRL jnr coach, G. Alexander said

" Junior rugby league is struggling, but no one wants to admit it. They gets numbers, & they say its slightly increasing, but it is not slightly increasing, its decreasing...they've used touch footy numbers & other numbers- female numbers- to make the game look like its doing OK, but it's not doing OK at grassroots levels".

Next NRL CEO must address the grassroots, says Greg Alexander

Next NRL CEO must address the grassroots, says Greg Alexander

www.sportingnews.com

Do you dispute what Kent & Alexander have written- if so, on what basis?


11. Daily Telegraph 7.5.17

In the (google search) article description , it says
"$100m Plan To Stop Kids Leaving League.
One Rugby league official fears ruby league will die out in Sydney's west in a decade if (male) kids keep leaving the game at the current rate. The NRL admits whatever it has tried is not working as its desperation to hang on to players grows".

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

No Cookies

www.dailytelegraph.com.au

(Behind a paywall- can anyone open, & link here please)


Former ARLC Chairman John Grant in 2015 sought $100m to be allocated, as a high priority, to specifically fund GR RL, such was the dire fall in (male) GR contact nos. .

New NRL funding deal saves clubs

Every NRL club should be able to stand on its own two feet financially after the NRL announced they will give them over $100m per year until 2022.

www.sbs.com.au

(but Grant's policy was later overthrown by a cabal of NRL Clubs- to divert this GR money to the NRL Clubs!).

This is evidence snr RL Administrators at HQ had great concerns re the long term significant decline in GR male contact RL.

Do you dispute this- if so, on what basis?

 

[werdna78]

This Thread has much information & links on AF's "growth of sport" in Qld- your usual trolling of AF, a sport & Swans you pretend to be a fan of.
It is you who is regularly being misleading, & cherrypicking your preferred facts; & ignoring those facts which don't support your anti-AF narrative.

In the Industry Forum Thread "A 3rd Team in Sydney, Its Only A Matter of Time", you have regularly denied (& tried to troll) the:-
. significant growth of GR AF in Sydney/NSW/ACT since 2012.
. the significant long term decline of GR jnr & snr male contact RL & RU in NSW/ACT.

In that Thread, there are over 20 separate reports & links from expert RL, RU, & soccer MSM journalists & RL, RU & soccer ex-players/Officials recognising the NSW/ACT decline of GR (male) contact RL & RU; &/or rise of GR AF in NSW/ACT.

When I challenged your trolling, & directly asked you - c. 7 times- to respond (by actually addressing my specific questions to you) in that Thread (my posts to you #726 874 937 1250 1351 1372 3278), you have constantly refused.
Virtually all in that Thread know you are trolling- your soccer allegiance appears to be the motivation (& possibly your English background has also played a part).


I will ask you 5 further questions...hope springs eternal.

1 & 2.
It is well known that a sport on a secondary channel often rates 3-4 time worse than exactly the same sport, cf. if it were to appear on the Main channel at exactly the same time & day.
And given that AFL matches in Brisbane & Sydney are on secondary Channels, their ratings are respectable in a new expansion market?
Do you dispute these 2 points- if so, on what basis?

3.
NoobPie & Rob have provided detailed analysis (in the "Sydney 3rd Team" Thread & "Non-AFL Ratings etc." Thread) from Media Week Ratings (provider of Ratings' age demographics) that "AFL telecasts skew young in Brisbane"; & that NRL telecasts have, relatively to AFL, a much older demographic- over 55 y.o.
Do you dispute this- if so, on what basis?

4.
And given that NRL attracts, relatively to AFL, an older watching demographic, NRL viewing may be facing a demographic time bomb in the medium to long ie NRL viewing nos. are likely to experience a much larger net decline.
Do you dispute this- if so, on what basis?

5.
The QRL stated on 24.7.20 that the Rugby League Brisbane Juniors comp. only had c. 5000 RL contact player, for U6 - U12, in 498 teams, in all of Greater Brisbane (excluding Ipswich & Ipswich JRL nos.). Link in my post#110.
This statement is extraordinary, & almost shocking. Greater Brisbane is a RL-heartland city of 2.2m . The U13- U18 RLBJ comp. nos were also dismal- far worse!
Do you dispute this- if so,on what basis?

Hey mate, love your work.

 

[werdna78]

Did you get that from the annual reports?

The raw distributions can be misleading as they include things like AFL member distributions which are essentially the AFL giving clubs 25% of the revenue they get from premium members they steal from the clubs. Also prize money

The key thing is, even if the substantial investment this last decade exceeds the short term increase in TV and sponsorship revenues, that is money that is largely just going to paying salaries that would have just gone to a few less people in the traditional areas.

Yes - from the AFL annual financial statements. This is just the redistribution funds from AFL revenue. The clubs earn additional revenue on top.

 

[sherb]

I've been in Sydney over 35 years, having come from a "footy" state (albeit one which the AFL and many on this site think doesn't warrant its own AFL side).

Not only did I come to Sydney, I found myself in Western Sydney - RL heartland. When I first arrived, I was essentially an outcast being an AFL supporter. That has changed considerably over the years.

I'm not a great fan of the AFL (ie the organization) in many respects, but I'd have to say that they have done a pretty good job in turning around the image and acceptance of the game here.

That's not to say Aussie Rules will ever overtake league here of course, but a lot of progress has been made towards making it a welcome and even essential part of the Sydney sporting landscape.

 

[NoobPie]

Yes - from the AFL annual financial statements. This is just the redistribution funds from AFL revenue. The clubs earn additional revenue on top.

Was more making the distinction between the "base and variable" distributions and "the other" which broken down in the 2018 annual report at least. Collingwood has a particularly high "other" primarily on account of the fact that a large chunk of AFL members (as in the membership that the AFL has that provides access to an AFL members reserve at the MCG, as distinct from direct club memberships) are Collingwood supporters. The AFL gives about $150 to the nominated club of its members.

 

[werdna78]

Was more making the distinction between the "base and variable" distributions and "the other" which broken down in the 2018 annual report at least. Collingwood has a particularly high "other" primarily on account of the fact that a large chunk of AFL members (as in the membership that the AFL has that provides access to an AFL members reserve at the MCG, as distinct from direct club memberships) are Collingwood supporters. The AFL gives about $150 to the nominated club of its members.

View attachment 958471

I only used the Club Distributions, I didn't add the variable, but I can see it would make difference to some of the Melbourne clubs.

Are these distributions mainly from ticket sales and club memberships, whereas the main distributions from the broadcast deal and sponsorships?

 

[NoobPie]

I only used the Club Distributions, I didn't add the variable, but I can see it would make difference to some of the Melbourne clubs.

Are these distributions mainly from ticket sales and club memberships, whereas the main distributions from the broadcast deal and sponsorships?

No the ticket sales (apart from whatever "AFL facilitated stadium payments" are and obviously finals) and club memberships wouldn't appear on the AFL's P&L. The AFL Membership distribution is notionally from the revenue from the 60-odd thousand AFL Members. The other distributions - including AFLW, prize money, travel subsidies etc - effectively come from general AFL revenue of which the majority is broadcast deal and sponsorship's.

This is a bit dated now but provides a good breakdown of club finances and AFL contributions (using the Wookie's compilation)

How much money does your club make?

AFL finances can be a bit murky and opaque and are very important to understanding the debate around financial equalisation. Luckily thanks to public annual reports we can roughly chart the financi…

www.hpnfooty.com

 

[Rob]

Great venue can be used as training base or easily expanded.

So can any local park.

And that place would need a complete rebuild you'd think to accommodate an NRL club. There's a complete lack of corporate facilities in that main stand for instance - which obviously wouldn't be necessary for local sport but surely in the NRL you'd want lots of corporate boxes and the like that you can charge an arm and a leg for.

 

[Colonial]

I've been in Sydney over 35 years, having come from a "footy" state (albeit one which the AFL and many on this site think doesn't warrant its own AFL side).

Not only did I come to Sydney, I found myself in Western Sydney - RL heartland. When I first arrived, I was essentially an outcast being an AFL supporter. That has changed considerably over the years.

I'm not a great fan of the AFL (ie the organization) in many respects, but I'd have to say that they have done a pretty good job in turning around the image and acceptance of the game here.

That's not to say Aussie Rules will ever overtake league here of course, but a lot of progress has been made towards making it a welcome and even essential part of the Sydney sporting landscape.

I have the shits with the NRL over the Tigers (not how they are performing but the whole debacle after the SL war) but I don’t think AFL will over take it.

It doesn’t need to, we have a 5 mil population we can carve out our own niche.

How are the Rams going this year?

 

[Our Game]

This is the total distribution (in millions) of funding since 2005.

St Kilda 192.9
Western B 191.8
Brisbane 182.4
Nth Melbourne 179.9
Melbourne 172.5
Carlton 159.3
Port 157.0
Sydney 155.3
Richmond 154.8
Essendon 153.2
Collingwood 153.2
GWS 146.5
Hawthorn 146.3
Geelong 145.3
Gold Coast 142.4
Fremantle 136.5
Adelaide 135.9
West Coast 134.5

As usual the useless !St Kilda FC 27 wooden spoons 1 flag in 143 years on top NOT the expansion States !

How come the Saints could recruit high priced players this season if they owe the AFL $14 Million plus other debtors no doubt millions?
If they were a normal business they would have been wound up years ago!

 

[werdna78]

As usual the useless !St Kilda FC 27 wooden spoons 1 flag in 143 years on top NOT the expansion States !

How come the Saints could recruit high priced players this season if they owe the AFL $14 Million plus other debtors no doubt millions?
If they were a normal business they would have been wound up years ago!

!?what?! I'm okay with the AFL propping up clubs and expanding, it adds to tradition of what is one of the oldest games in the world and expands to new states at the same time.

 

[sherb]

I have the shits with the NRL over the Tigers (not how they are performing but the whole debacle after the SL war) but I don’t think AFL will over take it.

It doesn’t need to, we have a 5 mil population we can carve out our own niche.

How are the Rams going this year?

I used to follow Wests, it's never been the same for me since the merger. I only take a passing interest in RL these days as a result.

I agree, there is no need for the AFL to "take over" in Sydney. There's enough population here for the game to be in a very healthy way, at junior, local senior and of course AFL levels.

Rams are going ok. Both mens' sides in the finals this coming weekend. It's been a short season in a strange year, 9 H&A games and a 2 week finals series (1v4, 2v3 in week 1, the two winners to play off for the flag the next weekend).

No-one's complaining of course, at least we got footy. That hasn't been the case in many other parts of the country (eg one of my old Tassie leagues pulled the pin on their comp probably back in June or so).

 

[Colonial]

I used to follow Wests, it's never been the same for me since the merger. I only take a passing interest in RL these days as a result.

I agree, there is no need for the AFL to "take over" in Sydney. There's enough population here for the game to be in a very healthy way, at junior, local senior and of course AFL levels.

Rams are going ok. Both mens' sides in the finals this coming weekend. It's been a short season in a strange year, 9 H&A games and a 2 week finals series (1v4, 2v3 in week 1, the two winners to play off for the flag the next weekend).

No-one's complaining of course, at least we got footy. That hasn't been the case in many other parts of the country (eg one of my old Tassie leagues pulled the pin on their comp probably back in June or so).

Yeah it’s struggling big time in the central west.

 

[Our Game]

NRL is no.1 code in part of country with over 50% of population.

But in the other 50% of the nation it hardly exists whereas the AFL has penetrated the northern states way better and are growing their base year on year!
If RL is such a great game how come they don't have another team in Melbourne a city of over 5 Million and a team in Adelaide and Perth and play six matches in Tassie?
How many players has RL recruited from Melbourne,Adelaide,Tasmania and Perth esp Melbourne where the have had a very high profile successful team for over 20 years and one that was flogged to death by News corp when they owned the Storm?