What can we expect from the new Shorten government

[Taylor]

With no boats since 2013 why is Manus open still?

I'm not sure how I respond to this in a conversation like the one we are having where you treat the six years in detention as fact across the board, I quote the actual average which is 23% of six years so you pivot to something else.

But let me try..

How many people need to drown at sea before an anti-boat policy is considered best case?

 

[Gough]

I'm not sure how I respond to this in a conversation like the one we are having where you treat the six years in detention as fact across the board, I quote the actual average which is 23% of six years so you pivot to something else.

But let me try..

How many people need to drown at sea before an anti-boat policy is considered best case?

There seems to be this view that treating an unfortunate group of people hideously is the only way to deal with the refugee problem and any attempt to look for another way or even treat those in detention with more humanity is greeted with complete scorn. These guys are political prisoners now, pure and simple, there to prove how callous this government can be.

 

[Taylor]

There seems to be this view that treating an unfortunate group of people hideously is the only way to deal with the refugee problem and any attempt to look for another way or even treat those in detention with more humanity is greeted with complete scorn. These guys are political prisoners now, pure and simple, there to prove how callous this government can be.

It's horrendous how the Australian government went out and captured these people minding their own business and took them to detention.

 

[Father Jack]

Drowning at sea wasn't a big enough deterrent, so we had to come up with something worse

 

[Kwality]

House prices are falling but also are numbers of sales. Some economic management

So much for the new economy post the mining (construction) boom - throw in a drought on the east coast & a weakening housing sector ...... cant see some of the election promises being delivered even now.

 

[GreyCrow]

I'm not sure how I respond to this in a conversation like the one we are having where you treat the six years in detention as fact across the board, I quote the actual average which is 23% of six years so you pivot to something else.

But let me try..

How many people need to drown at sea before an anti-boat policy is considered best case?

Nice pivot

You posted an average stay. I implied that with no boats in 6 years that your statistic had holes in it

Sure detention times across the board may average that but they can be skewed by deaths in custody and short stay detention by criminals being deported

Oh and to your point about deaths at sea. I don't care. That's the risk and choice people make. People use it as an emotive point without factoring the "averages" - to use your point

 

[Taylor]

Nice pivot

You posted an average stay. I implied that with no boats in 6 years that your statistic had holes in it

Sure detention times across the board may average that but they can be skewed by deaths in custody and short stay detention by criminals being deported

Oh and to your point about deaths at sea. I don't care. That's the risk and choice people make. People use it as an emotive point without factoring the "averages" - to use your point

The deaths at sea is the reason we have offshore detention. The open borders crew though they could wedge the population into letting all these people in if they showed them children drowning, but they didn't. Instead they called their bluff and took the even higher road of actively discouraging boat arrivals by making new rules for those people.

The figure I quoted you came from the refugee council of Australia too.

Are you trying to play a semantic game about politicians saying something about no boat arrivals? I don't know about that claim at all.

How much are these people paying people smugglers to ship them here? Put them on a plane instead, far safer. When they land they can claim asylum.

 

[Heisenberg_]

The average length of detention is 511 days.

It speaks volumes to how dire the situation is that 511 days in detention is said like it’s a reasonable timeframe.

 

[Taylor]

It speaks volumes to how dire the situation is that 511 days in detention is said like it’s a reasonable timeframe.

If I turned up in any other nation and said "I'm Taylor from Australia", how long before my identity is confirmed? What if I don't know a date of birth? What if I don't come from somewhere that records all of these things?

Then how long before my criminal record is looked over? What if I come from somewhere that doesn't consider things crimes that are considered a crime where I'm going? What if the records of that are very poor?

Every single request could take eight weeks for Australia to cough up the information.

And that's people who are fully cooperating and hiding nothing.

 

[Pessimistic]

How many people (yachties) arrive by boat every day in australia? Would most of them be welcome?

 

[GoldenSky]

If I turned up in any other nation and said "I'm Taylor from Australia", how long before my identity is confirmed? What if I don't know a date of birth? What if I don't come from somewhere that records all of these things?

Then how long before my criminal record is looked over? What if I come from somewhere that doesn't consider things crimes that are considered a crime where I'm going? What if the records of that are very poor?

Every single request could take eight weeks for Australia to cough up the information.

And that's people who are fully cooperating and hiding nothing.

Exactly.

 

[Kwality]

All which are jetisoned at any point it suits us. How many of those apply to someone seeking asylum by boat?

A template for a smuggler of people?

 

[Kwality]

How many people (yachties) arrive by boat every day in australia? Would most of them be welcome?

They come with papers, wonder why?

 

[medusala]

There seems to be this view that treating an unfortunate group of people hideously is the only way to deal with the refugee problem and any attempt to look for another way or even treat those in detention with more humanity is greeted with complete scorn. These guys are political prisoners now, pure and simple, there to prove how callous this government can be.

You really do sound unhinged on this topic.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Just grabbed my copy of this. Very much looking forward to reading it.

Huntley, who has been conducting research in Australian attitudes for many years, contends that the mainstream centre of Australian politics is way more progressive than the Coalition, and a good deal more progressive than Labor.

She examines the prospects of a Shorten government enacting progressive policies far more in keeping with the wishes of the majority of Australian voters. Fingers crossed.

 

[Pessimistic]

"Safe" Coalition areas (read high value housing) voting pro republic, pro SSM and presumably they are pro climate action too.

The Vic election shows some of these areas will swing ALP if its seen "safe progressive" like Dan Andrews

 

[Kwality]

The deaths at sea is the reason we have offshore detention. The open borders crew though they could wedge the population into letting all these people in if they showed them children drowning, but they didn't. Instead they called their bluff and took the even higher road of actively discouraging boat arrivals by making new rules for those people.

The figure I quoted you came from the refugee council of Australia too.

Are you trying to play a semantic game about politicians saying something about no boat arrivals? I don't know about that claim at all.

How much are these people paying people smugglers to ship them here? Put them on a plane instead, far safer. When they land they can claim asylum.

One difference between boats & planes is papers, got them or not .... reason?

 

[Taylor]

One difference between boats & planes is papers, got them or not .... reason?

I'm not sure the destruction of papers or documents prior to an asylum claim holds water, those people would be doing that so as to avoid a swift return to their country of origin, staying longer in the safety of Australian detention would be a positive.

Although, if a third party were using them for political purposes counter to the first party doing it, by making it out that people are very unhappy to be safe, then it could run counter to my expectation of that destruction of papers being an odd choice.

There will absolutely be people who don't have this paperwork because it doesn't exist, that will also explain the massive lag in time taken to investigate who these people are.

 

[Kwality]

"Safe" Coalition areas (read high value housing) voting pro republic, pro SSM and presumably they are pro climate action too.

The Vic election shows some of these areas will swing ALP if its seen "safe progressive" like Dan Andrews

Dan got in primarily because he is doing things with infrastructure IMHO, whether or not it is his suite of policies (e.g CFA/MFB, law & order, injecting rooms) will be much clearer after the Fed election.

 

[Pessimistic]

headline is stamp duty income down Thats a good thing right? I recall property groups railing agaisnt house stamp duty s far back as we can remeber

https://www.domain.com.au/news/rent...age&utm_medium=link&utm_content=pos2&ref=pos1

 

[Pessimistic]

Dan got in primarily because he is doing things with infrastructure IMHO, whether or not it is his suite of policies (e.g CFA/MFB, law & order, injecting rooms) will be much clearer after the Fed election.

I'm just noting the same areas are far more progressive (proven) on things like the republic and SSM referendum/plebicite/survey.

Im suggesting a link, Its reasonably simple. some of these areas swung more heavily than other areas in state election

 

[Benny78]

Turnbull still beat Shorten in an election. Even after Abbott and Hockey attacked everyone. The fact Shorten didn't win in a landslide displays how ****ed and unintelligent the people that live in this country are.

I mean that nazi mk2 government who turned my nation into Americas is pretty bad but this union guys even worse because he knifey Rudd in the backy!!!I also hate Rudd as well as the fact I hate he got knifed. He's a megalomaniac but I'm still furious they knifed him. I wanted him and didn't want him

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Turnbull still beat Shorten in an election. Even after Abbott and Hockey attacked everyone. The fact Shorten didn't win in a landslide displays how ****** and unintelligent the people that live in this country are.

I mean that nazi mk2 government who turned my nation into Americas is pretty bad but this union guys even worse because he knifey Rudd in the backy!!!I also hate Rudd as well as the fact I hate he got knifed. He's a megalomaniac but I'm still furious they knifed him. I wanted him and didn't want him

Do less meth dude

 

[Father Jack]

To be fair the electorate didn't quite have time to work out just how Abbott-lite Turnbull was prepared to be to cling onto power. Once they did, he went on an unprecedented polling losing streak (well I assume it was unprecedented).

 

[Hawk Dork]

To be fair the electorate didn't quite have time to work out just how Abbott-lite Turnbull was prepared to be to cling onto power. Once they did, he went on an unprecedented polling losing streak (well I assume it was unprecedented).

Exactly the public thought they were getting the "real" Trumbull, they didnt realise he sold his soul to get the gig,but when they realised he went down in the polls