- Banned
- #76
I know! Even 2008 was on 7
Coach What coaches are available?
- Thread starter thecatattack
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Vdubs
Hall of Famer
What about VOSSY?
He deserves another chance, like Brett Ratten.
He deserves another chance, like Brett Ratten.
- Banned
- #78
Dunno about Crazy Vossy. Sam Mitchell would be No1 for me. Perfect.
- Banned
- #80
Haha yeah. I thought 2008 was gonna break the 7 curse. But Nope.
Perhaps we could look at someone who wasn't a champion footballer as they invariably don't turn out to be good coaches.
Probably has a bit to do with their inflated ego's having always been pampered too during their lifetime as players.
Those that were struggling to keep a spot in the team, were traded in their latter years, they tend to become better coaches. I'd pass on Matthew Scarlett.
Although, one former player who was a star, and held in high regard is Lenny Hayes. He never achieved the ultimate success as a player but he was a very well respected person during his entire footballing career. A midfielder's perspective may be what Geelong need going forward.
You think back to the days of Bobby Davis, Peter Pianto who played as rovers and they brought a style of play which was freedom personified.
These defensive minded coaches are trying to make a very easy sport difficult to play.
We aren't talking about academics here, these are young men who are brilliant at kicking a leather ball around. Let's get back to basics and get rid of this muppet coach and start a new era already.
Vdubs
Hall of Famer
I LOVE Lenny Hayes. He would be my number 1 or 2 choice (Sam Mitchell te other), but Hayes is already assigned, as is Mitchell.
Every post champion era side is ”oozing with talent” on paper. Go look back at the names on the essendon list in 2002 onwards and aso the brisbane list 2005- onwards.
Class players everywhere yet they performed terribly. Because they were champions in their twilights retiring in large numbers each year, and the reality is you get a very average team that generaly falls into a heap.
Mate only elite player we have gotten is dangerfield. I laughed reading you try and label henderson dalhaus aa elite A grade pick ups, henderson no where near it and dalhaus a solid B grader.
If you look at the talent scott has lost compared to what he has gained, we have lost more talent than any other side in the competition and gained the least. We have lost 13AA players, since scott took over, yet your saying we should have made another grand final??? Lol dont make me laugh.
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Sorry but Henderson was a gun defender and was a perfect replacement for Tom Lonergan just as Jared Rivers was for Matthew Scarlett at the time.
Luke Dahlhaus would have been a walk up starter into probably 15 of the 18 teams in the competition last year.
Dangerfield was arguably top 2 in the game when he signed for us and another prime replacement for Jimmy Bartel.
Zach Tuohy, again, not elite but seriously, was one of only a handful of players for Carlton (at the time) who were holding their own.
If you want to talk about absolute scrubs, Sam Blease, Aaron Black, Rhys Stanley, Zac Smith, Gary Rohan, those are the very epitome of flash in the pan types.
To suggest Scott has had nothing to work with is hysterical.
It's not the clubs fault he keeps playing guys like Stanley, Blicavs, Guthrie, Kolodjashnij out of position every week. It's not the clubs fault he kept playing inept players for years on end like Murdoch, Rohan, Menegola.
I mean even these new guys like Parsons, Z.Guthrie and Atkins, it's doesn't take a senior coach to realize these guys don't have it and yet, our coach will hang onto them and play them until the penny finally drops.
This bloke is reminiscent of Gary Ayres. Only difference, Ayres couldn't get the premiership cup in his first year as coach.
- Nov 12, 2014
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- Geelong
Caracella or Sam Mitchell were the two I first thought of.
Though I think a few clubs have sniffed out Caracella. He may just prefer being a gun career assistant.
Being in Clarkson's system, despite my nomination of Sam Mitchell, is not really a guarantee of anything. For anyone that's follows the NFL Bill Belichick is the greatest coach the games seen and his assistants have been hit or miss coming out into head coaching roles.
There are particular skills required to be the best coach. Michael Lombardi covered them in his book Gridiron Genius. Well worth a read for anyone interested in general leadership discussions set in a sporting context. The work ethic, attention to detail, ability to empower assistants and be decisive paint a picture of a very unique individual. For a rough summary just read Bill Walsh's list for success.
Scott has shown some attributes though I haven't heard enough behind the scenes to know what he's really like. If Scott can't iterate and learn from mistakes, which is the thing we most worry about here after watching our ruck situation, then he's not the guy. Striving for constant improvement is critical. If he can we've got a decent shot while he's around. Watching with interest for another season I guess.
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We have lost 13AA players since chris scott started, that is more talent easily lost than any other side in the competition, wouldnt call such a max exodus of talented players in their twilight a very good position to be a coach. Like i have already pointed out he has done a better job than clarkson at the same point with their post champion side.
You talk as if we have had some influx of star players, we only got one A grader in (dangerfield)in and a bunch of B/C graders over the years compared to losing 13AA players in the same period. Plenty of other sides done identical if not better trading/free agency than us anyway.
I would say he has had it pretty ordinary what his had to work with given how much talent his had to deal with losing.
Perfect comparison to our position in 2012 and onwards is brisbanes ”star studded” 2005 team, which had as much resources as the team scott had to work with. Just check out the stars they had, to name a few:
Voss, akermanis, black, lappin, Power, michaels, Brown, Leppisch, bradshaw, scott brothers, Coppeland, merrett...
Just to name a few.
That is a midfield alone of 3 brownlow medalists... If you dont recall.
Yet they didnt even finish in the top 8.
Point is, these post twilight era sides look fantastic on paper, but they are not great lists to inherit. Stars in the twilight of their careers either about to retire or a shadow of their former abilities is the situation year after year.
Essendon 2002 onwards exact same.
What scotf did is nothing short of brilliant to keep us a top four side.
- Banned
- #87
Clarkson and also Scott have both been very lucky. In particular Clarkson.
Both teams were on top when 2 expansion teams came in keeping them there.
While at the same time in comes the introduction of FA.
That's not an opinion against them or subjective, that's just a fact.
With us just the amazing fortune of already developed a great team then getting Hawkins and Selwood for the next gen was huge. Then Taylor, then Danger.
Scott's had an ok ride. Been always secure and 100% backed from the board, a club that's been financially secure and adding facilities. Any player that we possibly could get from another club we have.
He's been in a fortunate position.
Selwood was already a well established A grader well before scott came along, was close to AA selection his second season alone, so the idea about him coming into some prime isnt true. Taylor was a star early on also as a mature age pick up. The only one from your mentioned who actually improved was hawkins, but i give scott full credit for that one.
Besides hawkins your reference to the others is just not true about developing into some level of ability that wasnt present before.
You seem to talk like individual players walk into geelong and next minute we are a top four side and you discredit everything else as a reason. Example dangerfield or hawkins prime etc. I find that too simplistic and juvenile even to use as an explanation, and if that had any truth to it carlton with judd would have made top four in the day, carlton with patrick cripps wouldnt have been a wooden spooner, and several other bottom sides who have genuine guns just as good as dangerfield would all be propelled into the finals.
Football is much more game plan systems oriented and a hollistic approach in my opinion, i know you differ from previous discussions and label it to an individual player.
- Banned
- #89
I never said they were no good before then. Just ignore the whole post.
They were young players who would go on to play 200+ games.
Absolutely brilliant to watch the 2007 GF and see 18yo Tommy watching on and a first year Selwood playing.
We still had that to come.! & the VFL team had won the flag the week before.
Just amazing.
& we had 2 expansion teams coming in taking the best kids off everyone else.
& then FA and trades to get off the poor teams.
On your other point. They do!
Look at us pre Danger, then Danger.
What a difference! What a player!
Any other coach in the league could have kept this Geelong side in the finals for years on end.
I mean seriously mate, you act as if our forward line was reminiscent of the current day Melbourne forward line. You act as if our midfield is the equivalent of the current day Gold Coast midfield.
You keep mentioning All Australians retiring. 13 of them you say!
I just explained to you we have replaced most of them with ready made footballers still in their primes. We did not do what John Longmire is currently doing and blood nothing but youth and as a consequence, take a dip from the finals for a few seasons.
In fact, Geelong's list was the oldest and had the most experience of all teams in the competition round 1, 2020. https://www.afl.com.au/news/267078/oldest-youngest-most-experienced-where-does-your-club-rank-
This is an on-going pattern with Scott. The bloke cannot develop his own. He must continue to ask for ready-made players to ensure how home ground advantage continually banks him the 4 points.
- Banned
- #91
He makes it seem like they all retired at once. They didn't.
Or like they had nothing to offer as soon as the 1st of Jan 2012 ticked over. They still did.
That's right.
In fact, some of them played on for a couple of years too long. Bartel was as slow as a snail in his final year of footy. What's worse, Scott had him playing in the back-line by the end
Look at Harry Taylor, seriously, I hate to bag these champion players but they're time was up quite a while ago and yet, master Scott will pump a good 15 odd games into Harry this season. Why? Because Harry won't be making as many mistakes as a newbie which ultimately means goals kicked against which leads to losses.
Selwood was already a well established A grader well before scott came along, was close to AA selection his second season alone, so the idea about him coming into some prime isnt true. Taylor was a star early on also as a mature age pick up. The only one from your mentioned who actually improved was hawkins, but i give scott full credit for that one.
Besidws hawkins your reference to the others is just not true about developing into some level of ability that wasnt present before.
There are plenty of AFL sides who would have recruited dangerfield and barely moved a ladder spot. One A grader doesnt propel you into a contender from outside the 8.
I do find it slightly pick n choose and hypocritical that you also claim losing gary ablett junior who is the best midfielder of all time arguably made us a better team in 2011 and was ab insignificant loss,yet you claim gaining dangerfield pushed us from outside the 8 to top four! Slightly hypocritical and degrading to ablett. I think your just going with whatever suits your approach.
Compromised drafts have only taken effect since about 2016 onwards in the competiton, hence how mediore the grand final winners have been such as bulldogs richmond etc
You cant be serious?
Losses: Ins: dangerfield, tuohy, rivers,
Mcintosh, rohan, dalhaus, ablett (33yrs), henderson.
Outs:
Bartel
ling
Enright
ottens
Chapman
johnson
Mackie
Rooke
Corey
Scarlett
Hunt
Podsiadly
Kelly
Stokes
Wojinski
Ablett (prime)
Might have missed a few, but its not even close.
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- Banned
- #95
That's right.
In fact, some of them played on for a couple of years too long. Bartel was as slow as a snail in his final year of footy. What's worse, Scott had him playing in the back-line by the end
Look at Harry Taylor, seriously, I hate to bag these champion players but they're time was up quite a while ago and yet, master Scott will pump a good 15 odd games into Harry this season. Why? Because Harry won't be making as many mistakes as a newbie which ultimately means goals kicked against which leads to losses.
Nah, 2015 missed finals. Fair enough, natural trajectory.
2016, top4, Danger wins Brownlow.
He's pretty f**king good.
I can tell ya it wasn't Scott Selwood lol.
Scott never lost Ablett, he only gained him.
- Banned
- #96
Like to make things up much?
They didn't go all at once mate.
Once again Scott never ever lost Ablett. Only gained him.
Coached for 9 seasons.
He had Bartel for 6 seasons
Enright 6 seasons
Mackie 7 seasons
Chapman 3 seasons
Scarlett 2 seasons
Pods 3 seasons
Ottens 1
Ling 1
Johnson 5
Can't be bothered doing the rest.
While 90% of your players were playing:
Got Selwood, Hawkins, and Taylor for the whole time ( in prime).
Caddy, Stanley, Scooter, Rivers, Danger, 2E, Henderson, Ablett + anyone else we could possibly get him so he didn't have to develop. (Too much work)
Stewart from the GFL, Menegola from the WAFL
During these 9 seasons he has developed himself?????????
Blitz, Guthrie, Duncan (also Bomber) & I dunno.
Now you've posted all the players Scott got for most of his career, he's not just a bit lucky, This guy is Luckiest Muthaf**ker in AFL history !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe that's why he has to overcompensate and make moronic finals decisions.
He's just insecure and doesn't want to make it seem like he sits in his phone and plays Candy Crush all day. (Wish he would)
Just gets a free ride off other people's work.
And don't worry about the senior Coach, worry about who is around him. Thompson wasn't a genius but he had a lot of good Assistants.Perhaps that was his genius he was happy to have the. Throw in Balme and away we went- although would still argue that it was the players pulling their collective fingers out that was the real success. Then again they had been well developed and were skilled just needed their heads to in sinc.
- Banned
- #98
Well now you mention it. If you wanna see reeeaal insecurity issues you'd only have people around you who you played with or coached.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Caracella Bris
Lappin Bris
Obree Bris
Enright Gee
Scarlett Gee
& well Knights The outlier ( must be good at saying yes?)
We lost ablett end of 2010, if my memory serves me correctly the first game withour garry ablett was 2011 under scott, which means we lost him for season 2011. Dunno you might recall 2010 without ablett but i sure recall it with him.
Bartel after 2011 was a shadow of himself, ling ottens gone absolutely massive irreplaceable, chapman a shadow of his former self for a large chunk of that. Kelly a shadow of his former self a large part of that, scarlett fell off the face of the earth 2012 which left a gaping hole as one of the greats. Rooke also gone very early on who was irreplaceable, as was wojinski
You compile the initial losses of the greatest midfielder to ever play the game, bartel falling away quickly, thats two brownlow medal midfielders gone and the other drastically faded, then add in corey was a shadow of himself as well.
The losses from early on where quite huge and in no way replaceable.
You keep compacting it each year with either a veteran dropping off in ability in his twilight or retiring and the impact is huge and irreplaceable.
I could do an exact same scenario for the brisbane essendon lists, yet they fell entirely off a cliff over those phasing out years.
We just had an incredible coach who was able to manage us through such a difficult period losing so much talent
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Once again your quite hypocritical with your opinions.
Lose the greatest midfielder to ever play the game, you claim we werent affected and got better.
Gain dangerfield, you claim it took us from 9th to 2nd.
Whatever suits your story or agenda you just roll with.
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