Review What Daniel Jackson Does

[Azzleberry]

Agree with most of the posts above. Daniel Jackson is in our top 10 players and will be in the side when challenging for a Premiership. Yes, he turns it over occasionally and let's himself down with discipline from time to time but he adds grunt, a hard body and extreme work ethic..

 

[santa claws]

lol at this thread. what single features totally destroyed us against adelaide and against hawthorn in supposedly nothing practice games.
what is and has been for yrs many yrs now the single biggest killer of us as a football team. yep you guessed it turnovers. turnoveers linked directly to footskill decision making and footy smarts.

while glass half fulls like jackson are in the top 22 or god forbid our top 10 players as azzleberry says we will never ever challenge for a premiership.

its funny the same old type of player keeps on smacking supporters in the face and those same supporters keep on backing them in.

one thing you can bank on daniel jackson will not improve he will always make poor decisions and butcher the ball at times. 8 yrs in and still the exact same debate rages about this bloke.

he may well be in the top 22 and therein lies the problem.

i can see it now. people debating weather jackson edwards tuck connors white king nahas graham mcguane rance are top 22 or not.
the lot need to be replaced.they all suffer the same sort of deficiencies that crucify us on game day and one can just see the lot of em getting regular games.and there other regulars who are ordinary by foot as well foley grigg. dave gourdis will probably get games.

i have maintained for yrs now that players like tuck and jackson have got games primarily
because of a dearth of big bodies. we now have some big bodies we no longer need to play these glass half fulls.

7 yrs of jackson and if he stays for another 4 yrs in 4 yrs we will be having this very debate. make no mistake he is part of the problem.

finally how funny it is that and i can only phrase it deluded ferals are so deluded that they compare jacksons and kirks careers.
yep kirky was a poor kick as far as depth and tecniqe went. but because he had smarts he rarely made a poor decision. he was smart enough to play within his limitations and because he was a footballer he would alwys find the ball he knew instinctively where to go when to hang onto the ball and when to move it on quickly.. to top it off he could be counted on to do a job week in week out on very good players.id take brett kirk in a heart beat despite his kicking over jackson. they are not in the same league.

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Agree Ssanta....he is about to turn 25, which means he is about to have 2-3 years of his 'prime'. There is not a lot of upside left. The question at this age when rating players, must always be, not is he in OUR best 22, but would he be in a top 4 side's best 22. Answer that Jackson supporters. If we offered him up for trade with a Collingwood/Geelong/Bulldogs, would they be listening?

So yes, play him this year, but always be looking to play an 18-19 year old to hopefully replace him (also read Tuck in this), because we are a bottom 4 side for a reason!

 

[tiggywigs]

Jacko is an enforcer and Tuck is an extractor. Both are good at their roles, not great, but good. Blaming them for the present state of the team is just classic scapegoating. The value of both can only be fairly judged when Dimma's game plan has been fully implemented. I'd wait till the end of this season (at least) to make a considered call on their worth.

 

[El Tigre]

finally how funny it is that and i can only phrase it deluded ferals are so deluded that they compare jacksons and kirks careers.
yep kirky was a poor kick as far as depth and tecniqe went. but because he had smarts he rarely made a poor decision. he was smart enough to play within his limitations and because he was a footballer he would alwys find the ball he knew instinctively where to go when to hang onto the ball and when to move it on quickly.. to top it off he could be counted on to do a job week in week out on very good players.id take brett kirk in a heart beat despite his kicking over jackson. they are not in the same league.

In general I agree with what you say about Jackson. Tho if he can (or is required) change parts of his game that reduce his negative points, then there still might be a place for him. I guess that's where i have Kingy has improved in leaps and bounds, because he is learning to play within his limitations.

 

[_RT_]

i have maintained for yrs now that players like tuck and jackson have got games primarily
because of a dearth of big bodies. we now have some big bodies we no longer need to play these glass half fulls.

I asked earlier in the thread just who are these big bodied players that are going to replace Jackson and Tuck and go no reply, so now I'll ask again.


Who are these big bodied types and what have they done in their careers to prove that they are better options than Jackson and/or Tuck?

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

I asked earlier in the thread just who are these big bodied players that are going to replace Jackson and Tuck and go no reply, so now I'll ask again.


Who are these big bodied types and what have they done in their careers to prove that they are better options than Jackson and/or Tuck?

RT I did respond to the question you posed, in post #44.

" As I raised in the previous post RT , I hope we don't look to a single person to replace Jacksons attributes , rather our midfield group collectively improves in those areas with development . Realistically , this season our midfield will see Bling, Collins and most likely Nason , replaced with Foley, Houli and Grigg . I'd suggest that alone is a fairly significant step . It is shaping up as though the form of Batchelor and Conca, may well see Edwards pushed aside within those rotations also , whether that be themselves or them playing off half back allowing others into midfield rotations .
There is some significant ball winning ability already added and you'd hope and assume that those individuals are only going to
Improve ? "

 

[santa claws]

I asked earlier in the thread just who are these big bodied players that are going to replace Jackson and Tuck and go no reply, so now I'll ask again.


Who are these big bodied types and what have they done in their careers to prove that they are better options than Jackson and/or Tuck?

first let me state or in this case restate what i have said and argued, that being i think we can only play one of tuck or jackson and true to what i have said i believe tuck the one to utilise.
geez not hard to see who. grigg first up. and while i have concerns over disposal he has a bloody footy brain unlike jackson.
dustin martin how big do you want your mids.
the return of foley and yeah hes a little guy but hes physically capable of doing what he has to do.

houli again a short bloke but hes as solid as a brick shithouse. pat contin geez hes not huge but hes no stick either. conca has a frame that says 85 kg hes already shown in the wafl that he can handle men. how about the likes of macdonald hes physically bigger than most afl players of his height and hasnt played a game. or what about finally we have some talls who nare actually getting bigger.. cmon rt your playing silly buggers even you have to admit the list is finally getting players of all heights to an adequate weight ratio.
finally yes finally we can stop picking so many glass half fulls because of size issues.

oopps nearly forgot cotchin as well at last with a decent pre season behind him.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

lol at this thread. what single features totally destroyed us against adelaide and against hawthorn in supposedly nothing practice games.
what is and has been for yrs many yrs now the single biggest killer of us as a football team. yep you guessed it turnovers. turnoveers linked directly to footskill decision making and footy smarts.

while glass half fulls like jackson are in the top 22 or god forbid our top 10 players as azzleberry says we will never ever challenge for a premiership.

its funny the same old type of player keeps on smacking supporters in the face and those same supporters keep on backing them in.

one thing you can bank on daniel jackson will not improve he will always make poor decisions and butcher the ball at times. 8 yrs in and still the exact same debate rages about this bloke.

he may well be in the top 22 and therein lies the problem.

i can see it now. people debating weather jackson edwards tuck connors white king nahas graham mcguane rance are top 22 or not.
the lot need to be replaced.they all suffer the same sort of deficiencies that crucify us on game day and one can just see the lot of em getting regular games.and there other regulars who are ordinary by foot as well foley grigg. dave gourdis will probably get games.

i have maintained for yrs now that players like tuck and jackson have got games primarily
because of a dearth of big bodies. we now have some big bodies we no longer need to play these glass half fulls.

7 yrs of jackson and if he stays for another 4 yrs in 4 yrs we will be having this very debate. make no mistake he is part of the problem.

finally how funny it is that and i can only phrase it deluded ferals are so deluded that they compare jacksons and kirks careers.
yep kirky was a poor kick as far as depth and tecniqe went. but because he had smarts he rarely made a poor decision. he was smart enough to play within his limitations and because he was a footballer he would alwys find the ball he knew instinctively where to go when to hang onto the ball and when to move it on quickly.. to top it off he could be counted on to do a job week in week out on very good players.id take brett kirk in a heart beat despite his kicking over jackson. they are not in the same league.

In some regards Santa I agree with those parts that are highlighted, however in saying that these players only have to add a small dimension to their game and their value will raise hugely.
All of these players are extremely one dimensional, yet unfortunately they attempt to weave through traffic like Cotchin or Martin.
Cotchin and Martin are so good through traffic because they are so unpredictable, oppostion go to their preferred side expecting them to kick and they swing onto their opposite, or fend players off and have 3-4 metres clear and have broke through traffic.
The players mentioned just don't have that threat, if sides defend their preferred side kicking, they're under pressure.
Jackson , has an amazingly high kick to handball ratio for a clearance player, a large percentage of contested clearance footy is upon the ground, ever tried to kick whilst on the ground ?
The real positive is that if any of these players can add a trick to their bag they will be significantly improved, IMO Jacksons needs to be more handball ?

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

lol at this thread. what single features totally destroyed us against adelaide and against hawthorn in supposedly nothing practice games.
what is and has been for yrs many yrs now the single biggest killer of us as a football team. yep you guessed it turnovers. turnoveers linked directly to footskill decision making and footy smarts.

while glass half fulls like jackson are in the top 22 or god forbid our top 10 players as azzleberry says we will never ever challenge for a premiership.

its funny the same old type of player keeps on smacking supporters in the face and those same supporters keep on backing them in.

one thing you can bank on daniel jackson will not improve he will always make poor decisions and butcher the ball at times. 8 yrs in and still the exact same debate rages about this bloke.

he may well be in the top 22 and therein lies the problem.

i can see it now. people debating weather jackson edwards tuck connors white king nahas graham mcguane rance are top 22 or not.
the lot need to be replaced.they all suffer the same sort of deficiencies that crucify us on game day and one can just see the lot of em getting regular games.and there other regulars who are ordinary by foot as well foley grigg. dave gourdis will probably get games.

i have maintained for yrs now that players like tuck and jackson have got games primarily
because of a dearth of big bodies. we now have some big bodies we no longer need to play these glass half fulls.

7 yrs of jackson and if he stays for another 4 yrs in 4 yrs we will be having this very debate. make no mistake he is part of the problem.

finally how funny it is that and i can only phrase it deluded ferals are so deluded that they compare jacksons and kirks careers.
yep kirky was a poor kick as far as depth and tecniqe went. but because he had smarts he rarely made a poor decision. he was smart enough to play within his limitations and because he was a footballer he would alwys find the ball he knew instinctively where to go when to hang onto the ball and when to move it on quickly.. to top it off he could be counted on to do a job week in week out on very good players.id take brett kirk in a heart beat despite his kicking over jackson. they are not in the same league.

Lol at you...

Every side suffers from turnovers when put under pressure, you dont need to be an einstein/chicken little to realise that...

Furthermore jackson is in our best 22 until he gets replaced by a better player...its as simple as that...and your constant negative carping about jackson's place in the tiger side will not change that one iota..get used to it...

And as for your man love for kirky...kirky did not walk into the sydney side able to leap over buildings in a single bound...born with footy smarts...it took years for him to hone his skills...the one thing your not prepared to grant any richmond player who is learning the game...tv or jackson...

Jackson still has time on his side...kirk had 10 years of acquired skills over a young jackson...and he played in a better side, surrounded by great players...and in a side that played in two consecutive grannys..

Jackson is a young player in a young immature side finally getting coached by reasonable coaches...

Horses for courses...

 

[santa claws]

In some regards Santa I agree with those parts that are highlighted, however in saying that these players only have to add a small dimension to their game and their value will raise hugely.
All of these players are extremely one dimensional, yet unfortunately they attempt to weave through traffic like Cotchin or Martin.
Cotchin and Martin are so good through traffic because they are so unpredictable, oppostion go to their preferred side expecting them to kick and they swing onto their opposite, or fend players off and have 3-4 metres clear and have broke through traffic.
The players mentioned just don't have that threat, if sides defend their preferred side kicking, they're under pressure.
Jackson , has an amazingly high kick to handball ratio for a clearance player, a large percentage of contested clearance footy is upon the ground, ever tried to kick whilst on the ground ?
The real positive is that if any of these players can add a trick to their bag they will be significantly improved, IMO Jacksons needs to be more handball ?

how does one go about this.
simply put after a general amount of time and it differs for different types i dont believe players are capable of adding dimensions to their games as you say. not if they lack in basics.

those that do and yes some do manage to turn it around not many mind. they are in the main footballers ad all that implies.

in seven yrs i have not seen an improvement in jacksons footskills decision making or footy smarts.i would suggest hes probably played his best footy when given a job to do on a player and hes been lead to the ball.

 

[_RT_]

RT I did respond to thr question you posed RT in post #44.

As I raised in the previous post RT , I hope we don't look to a single person to replace Jacksons attributes , rather our midfield group collectively improves in those areas with development . Realistically , this season our midfield will see Bling, Collins and most likely Nason , replaced with Foley, Houli and Grigg . I'd suggest that alone is a fairly significant step . It is shaping up as though the form of Batchelor and Conca, may well see Edwards pushed aside within those rotations also , whether that be themselves or them playing off half back allowing others into midfield rotations .
There is some significant ball winning ability already added and you'd hope and assume that those individuals are only going to
Improve ?

Apologies PTF you did reply, but IMO replacing Jackson with 2-3 players isn't exactly moving forward, in fact I would suggest that its a step or 2 backwards.

Ideally what I would like in my preferred midfield is someone like Jackson who does all the grunt/tagging work i.e. tackling, blocking, shepherding & clearances which allows our better ball users time and space to use their skills to greater effect. Have a look at all the better sides they all have player/s that perform that sort of role. At Collingwood its Ball, Geelong have Ling, Saints have Hayes, Hawks have Mitchell & Sewell and Dogs have Boyd and Cross. Now I'm not for one minute putting Jackson in the same league as these players, but he could be just as important to our future midfield success as these guys have been to their respective clubs.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

how does one go about this.
simply put after a general amount of time and it differs for different types i dont believe players are capable of adding dimensions to their games as you say. not if they lack in basics.

those that do and yes some do manage to turn it around not many mind. they are in the main footballers ad all that implies.

in seven yrs i have not seen an improvement in jacksons footskills decision making or footy smarts.i would suggest hes probably played his best footy when given a job to do on a player and hes been lead to the ball.

Actually Santa, forcing a player to add a dimension isnt that difficult if caught earlier enough, clubs are now doing simulated drills more often than ever, aint that hard to make it common knowledge amongst all that they are fair game if they go to use their one dominant dimension. No player likes to be continually nailed.
If these players fail the coaching staff needs to take as much if not more responsibility than anyone, keep in mind these players have only had one season under Hardwick ?
I've been some these players biggest critic , however Tucks awareness to handball from congestion tended to improve last season, jackson basically had a year where he went from tagger to chasing a bit of his own footy.
I'm not sold that they can be transformed, as I believe we have so many in the same mold, hence why I question the ability to have both Tuck , Jackson with Grigg in the same side , but there is a chance.
Connors is the biggest issue, as he doesn't appear to have any inclination to defend despite playing as a defender .

 

[santa claws]

Lol at you...

Every side suffers from turnovers when put under pressure, you dont need to be an einstein/chicken little to realise that...

Furthermore jackson is in our best 22 until he gets replaced by a better player...its as simple as that...and your constant negative carping about jackson's place in the tiger side will not change that one iota..get used to it...

And as for your man love for kirky...kirky did not walk into the sydney side able to leap over buildings in a single bound...born with footy smarts...it took years for him to hone his skills...the one thing your not prepared to grant any richmond player who is learning the game...tv or jackson...

Jackson still has time on his side...kirk had 10 years of acquired skills over a young jackson...and he played in a better side, surrounded by great players...and in a side that played in two consecutive grannys..

Jackson is a young player in a young immature side finally getting coached by reasonable coaches...

Horses for courses...

sheesh how does one decipher that lot. na better to let it remain a simmering pot of nonsense than try to give any credence to it.

all i can say is delusions must effect the thought processes.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Apologies PTF you did reply, but IMO replacing Jackson with 2-3 players isn't exactly moving forward, in fact I would suggest that its a step or 2 backwards.

Ideally what I would like in my preferred midfield is someone like Jackson who does all the grunt/tagging work i.e. tackling, blocking, shepherding & clearances which allows our better ball users time and space to use their skills to greater effect. Have a look at all the better sides they all have player/s that perform that sort of role. At Collingwood its Ball, Geelong have Ling, Saints have Hayes, Hawks have Mitchell & Sewell and Dogs have Boyd and Cross. Now I'm not for one minute putting Jackson in the same league as these players, but he could be just as important to our future midfield success as these guys have been to their respective clubs.

Jackson could be every bit as good as those mentioned IMO RT, but I'd suspect those players stats are more handball influenced than Jacksons ?
IMO, if Jackson was to more frequently handball from congestion to players in space we would be a much better side and he'd be more appreciated, and it's probably the one player our midfield needs ?

 

[santa claws]

Actually Santa, forcing a player to add a dimension isnt that difficult, clubs are now doing simulated drills more often than ever, aint that hard to make it common knowledge amongst all that they are fair game if they go to use their one dominant dimension. No player likes to be continually nailed.
If these players fail the coaching staff needs to take as much if not more responsibility than anyone, keep in mind these players have only had one season under Hardwick ?
I've been some these players biggest critic , however Tucks awareness to handball from congestion tended to improve last season, jackson basically had a year where he went from tagger to chasing a bit of his own footy.
I'm not sold that they can be transformed, hence why I question the ability to have both with Grigg in the same side , but there is a chance.
Connors is the biggest issue, as he doesn't appear to have any inclination to defend despite playing as a defender .

the thing is drills or no drills in the main those that make it have the basics in place. personally jackson would have gone in 06. i had seen enough by then and nothing has changed.
like i said in an earlier post if jacko is there in 4 yrs time we will still be having this very same debate. bloody hell he enters yr 8. when is enough of mediocrity enough.

 

[_RT_]

first let me state or in this case restate what i have said and argued, that being i think we can only play one of tuck or jackson and true to what i have said i believe tuck the one to utilise.
geez not hard to see who. grigg first up. and while i have concerns over disposal he has a bloody footy brain unlike jackson.
dustin martin how big do you want your mids.
the return of foley and yeah hes a little guy but hes physically capable of doing what he has to do.

houli again a short bloke but hes as solid as a brick shithouse. pat contin geez hes not huge but hes no stick either. conca has a frame that says 85 kg hes already shown in the wafl that he can handle men. how about the likes of macdonald hes physically bigger than most afl players of his height and hasnt played a game. or what about finally we have some talls who nare actually getting bigger.. cmon rt your playing silly buggers even you have to admit the list is finally getting players of all heights to an adequate weight ratio.
finally yes finally we can stop picking so many glass half fulls because of size issues.

oopps nearly forgot cotchin as well at last with a decent pre season behind him.

At seasons end I'm hoping that our midfield group is made up of the following players:

Grigg - 23 190cm 84kg
Jackson - 24 188cm 92kg
Deledio - 24 188cm 88kg
Martin - 20 187cm 86kg
Morton - 24 186cm 86kg
Cotchin - 21 185cm 85kg
Conca - 18 185cm 78kg
Helbig - 19 185cm 77kg
Edwards - 22 182cm 79kg
Houli - 23 180cm 85kg
Foley - 26 178cm 80kg

Thats 11 players who IMO are good enough as a group, (thats the key here) to take us to the next level. So in the main I agree with what you're saying, which seems to be common in our discussions. The one main difference is that I believe that Jackson has an important role to play in that set up.

 

[santa claws]

At seasons end I'm hoping that our midfield group is made up of the following players:

Grigg - 23 190cm 84kg
Jackson - 24 188cm 92kg
Deledio - 24 188cm 88kg
Martin - 20 187cm 86kg
Morton - 24 186cm 86kg
Cotchin - 21 185cm 85kg
Conca - 18 185cm 78kg
Helbig - 19 185cm 77kg
Edwards - 22 182cm 79kg
Houli - 23 180cm 85kg
Foley - 26 178cm 80kg

Thats 11 players who IMO are good enough as a group, (thats the key here) to take us to the next level. So in the main I agree with what you're saying, which seems to be common in our discussions. The one main difference is that I believe that Jackson has an important role to play in that set up.

yep we basically agree again. of course as you say we differ on jackson. to me he has to be replaced and if its short term we are talking about id take tucky anyday.

oh by the way im not jumping on a band wagon here as i believe i stated i wanted contin at draft time but no pat contin. i bet after 7 yrs contin would be a better player than jackson. and a player with genuine footy smarts.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

the thing is drills or no drills in the main those that make it have the basics in place. personally jackson would have gone in 06. i had seen enough by then and nothing has changed.
like i said in an earlier post if jacko is there in 4 yrs time we will still be having this very same debate. bloody hell he enters yr 8. when is enough of mediocrity enough.

There is still a huge number of players making it because they excel in one trait/ dimension !
I put it to you, if Jackson was to become a ball extractor who predominately handballed to players in space, IYO is there a place in the side for him ?
Keep in mind he can get it .
I agree however, if his game style remains in the same vane I question his long term value ?

 

[_RT_]

Jackson could be every bit as good as those mentioned IMO RT, but I'd suspect those players stats are more handball influenced than Jacksons ?
IMO, if Jackson was to more frequently handball from congestion to players in space we would be a much better side and he'd be more appreciated, and it's probably the one player our midfield needs ?

You're right Jackson doesn't handball as much as those guys do but when it comes to the other stuff i.e. tackles and clearances Jackson is up there with them. As I said I don't expect him to be put in the same class as them, but he could be every bit as effective, especially if as you say he can learn to dish off more rather than just simply bang the ball on the boot at almost every opportunity.

 

[_RT_]

yep we basically agree again. of course as you say we differ on jackson. to me he has to be replaced and if its short term we are talking about id take tucky anyday.

oh by the way im not jumping on a band wagon here as i believe i stated i wanted contin at draft time but no pat contin. i bet after 7 yrs contin would be a better player than jackson. and a player with genuine footy smarts.

Given Tuck will be 30 by the end of the year I don't see him having that much value either short or long term and given Hardwick has again started to play others ahead of Tuck it could be assumed that he is of a similar opinion.

BTW well aware you're not jumping on the bandwagon.

 

[santa claws]

There is still a huge number of players making it because they excel in one trait/ dimension !
I put it to you, if Jackson was to become a ball extractor who predominately handballed to players in space, IYO is there a place in the side for him ?
Keep in mind he can get it .
I agree however, if his game style remains in the same vane I question his long term value ?

i agree wholeheartedly with the first sentence.
and if some how after 7 yrs jacko found the instincts to become a very good to elite inside ball player id say there is a place for him.

to put it in perspective though.
nathan foley. i have been often hounded because i refuse to rate this bloke higher than a cross between c/ b. that is c = core list solid afl player and b = very good afl player.
why simple his footskills. he at times butchers it and most of the time its average.
but foley makes up for this with his elite ability to get his hands on the ball in congestion. and by hand use it well with good vision.
nathan is a footballer his instincts dictate what he does and as such it just happens. jacko oin the other hand is not an instict player if you like. in fact his lack of footy smarts is appalling.
it was the risk we took when we drafted him.we knew his back ground and we knew he had heaps to learn about the game.

anyway if he can become a brett kirk id stick with him. that is do a job week in week out on damaging players and think his way thru situations with ball in hand and use well foe sure keep him but at 25 it aint gunna happen.
i will say again 8th yr unbelievable. its this that keeps us mired in mediocrity. 8 bloody yrs.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

I must say, I'll be a little disappointed if DH is as upset as has been reported, and then doesn't come out and make some big calls in selection for the early rounds.

Would not hesitate in picking Batchelor, Conca & Helbig in the 21. Preferrably at the expense of the likes of White, Edwards & Connors (whom I think have all had ordinary pre-seasons). I'd be more than happy for him to pick Grimes ahead of a McGuane and Thursfield. Would even like to see Contin promoted and selected.

If we are going to struggle, I'd rather see some more fresh faces in the process.

I want to see Jackson go back to a direct run-with role, have not seen him play that under Hardwick to this point. If he's not negating someone, I still struggle to see his positives out-weighing his negatives. I'm not a hater, it's just the way I assess him with my own eyes.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

how does one go about this.
simply put after a general amount of time and it differs for different types i dont believe players are capable of adding dimensions to their games as you say. not if they lack in basics.

those that do and yes some do manage to turn it around not many mind. they are in the main footballers ad all that implies.

in seven yrs i have not seen an improvement in jacksons footskills decision making or footy smarts.i would suggest hes probably played his best footy when given a job to do on a player and hes been lead to the ball.

Lol at you...

Are you still leading 'the negative charge' against DJackson carping on about what he cant do compared to a cotchin, a martin or a retired kirk...

I bet if you really tried you could find something negative in juddys game...go on have a go...you know you really want to......

In 'isolation' i dare say you could find deficiences in any player...even richo!...But jackson is part of a unit...the tigers midfield rotation...and he does his best work in there with them...the hard grunt work...

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

how does one go about this.
simply put after a general amount of time and it differs for different types i dont believe players are capable of adding dimensions to their games as you say. not if they lack in basics.

those that do and yes some do manage to turn it around not many mind. they are in the main footballers ad all that implies.

What on earth does that 'gobbledigook' mean...?!?!?!.......