Review What Daniel Jackson Does

[santa claws]

First 5 seasons I'd say were well below average, 2009 was quite good and last year he let himself down by getting himself suspended. Right now I have him as a solid B grader.

have to ask you say his first 5 seasons well below average and i would agree.
you say his 09 quite good and i would agree with some reservations about parts of his game.
last yr he was ordinary despite suspension.

yet despite this you have him a B grader. i really have to ask what iyo is a B grader.
for me a B grader is a very good player. A is elite.
maybe you could argue hes shown at times he can be very good but so did other duds like pettifer tivendale etc etc etc.

 

[santa claws]

Agree this, but as I've said time and again, until someone better comes along and actually takes Jacksons spot from him, I can't see him going anywhere. As I said above, I'd be quite happy to see him playing the tagger/enforcer role where his primary goal would be to make life for an opposition midfielder hell, and when given the chance use his size and strength to hurt the opponents of our other midfielders.

as stated elsewhere we have found his replacement his name is martin. and hes shown in just one season that hes far more rounded than jackson ever will be. or how about grigg or the return of foley
the need to play these deer in headlights is greatly diminished.

 

[CallMeAl]

Like everyone else here I'd agree that Newman is amongst our better ball users and decision makers and yet surprisingly his turnovers hurt us the most on the scoreboard.

RT, why is it surprising that turnovers from a player who plays mainly deep in defence (including taking the kick outs) result in more goals than those that play further up the field?

 

[_RT_]

have to ask you say his first 5 seasons well below average and i would agree.
you say his 09 quite good and i would agree with some reservations about parts of his game.
last yr he was ordinary despite suspension.

yet despite this you have him a B grader. i really have to ask what iyo is a B grader.
for me a B grader is a very good player. A is elite.
maybe you could argue hes shown at times he can be very good but so did other duds like pettifer tivendale etc etc etc.

My rankings:
D = Dud. Delist.
C = average player
B = good player
A = very good player
A+ = Elite.

as stated elsewhere we have found his replacement his name is martin. and hes shown in just one season that hes far more rounded than jackson ever will be. or how about grigg or the return of foley
the need to play these deer in headlights is greatly diminished.

Do we really want Martin or Foley playing Jacksons role i.e. dive head first into packs & lay tackles or do we want them out in the open where they can use their skills to great effect? As for Grigg he may be an option down the track, but on what I've seen so far this preseason he is a long way off doing what Jackson does.

RT, why is it surprising that turnovers from a player who plays mainly deep in defence (including taking the kick outs) result in more goals than those that play further up the field?

What was surprising is that Newman was not the player who had the most turnovers in our D50 yet the opposition had more scoring opportunities from his turnovers. Would have thought that Connors would have been the one who topped that list given he averaged the most turnovers per game.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Now i am offended......all this time i thought i was contributing interesting posts just like yourself and other posters on BF...

My first hope in returning to a thread I've started after a day away is that there'll be some good discussion specifically about the thread topic. If there has to be three pages of other stuff, then I'm quite happy for you to be amongst it JAK.

Rayzor players don't make great players or AFL standard players for that matter, by being elite in one area,

Of course they do, Sandilands is top-10 solely because of his hitouts, what else is he - or the vast majority of other rucks for that matter - elite at? There's a huge glut of players in the AFL that are average at everything except running. There are many other examples, so many they're the majority of the players in the comp by far. Newman is an elite kick and not even close to elite at anything else.

...for a guy who sets up so much from our defence I'm more than happy with that !

My point here by way of comparison is:

Newman:
Kicking 9/10
Defense 5/10

Jackson:
Kicking 5/10
Defense 9/10

Could argue the ratings 'til the cows come home, I think they're good enough for a broadly illustrative point.

We play Newman to suit his kicking strength and nobody really whinges in the games where he leaks 5-6 goals (3-4 from his direct opponents and a couple in turnovers), they talk up his kicking strength, while Jackson can lay 15 tackles, smash the entire opposition midfield, win great clearances all day, and give a masterful display of defensive football, yet get hammered by some people for a couple of turnovers and dodgy kicks.

Not really fair, is it? They have opposite strengths which are not being valued correctly.

Jacksons major flaw IMO , is for a player who is assumed to be a contested in and under ball winner , he has way to few handballs compared to kicks , and with the way he kicks it makes it even worst !

As I've pointed out several times already, you can't handball when there's nobody to receive it. Where we were at last year, Jackson was getting so many kicks because he was one of only a few who could run hard enough to support others in contests around the ground. When he got there he had no support and no option but to kick it long. I've invited you and others to come up with alternative plays he should have opted for, if you can't find any then maybe it's time to consider how many other times in the season he was placed in that opportunity.

Look at the clips, Jackson runs his guts out to support Martin, receives the handball, has no option but to kick long, does so, we end up with a goal. What you're effectively saying, is that you'd prefer Martin by himself on the wing turning the ball over because he has no support, because that's the only way Jackson's going to get less kicks - not turn up to support his teammates as often as he currently does.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

My first hope in returning to a thread I've started after a day away is that there'll be some good discussion specifically about the thread topic. If there has to be three pages of other stuff, then I'm quite happy for you to be amongst it JAK.




Of course they do, Sandilands is top-10 solely because of his hitouts, what else is he - or the vast majority of other rucks for that matter - elite at? There's a huge glut of players in the AFL that are average at everything except running. There are many other examples, so many they're the majority of the players in the comp by far. Newman is an elite kick and not even close to elite at anything else.



My point here by way of comparison is:

Newman:
Kicking 9/10
Defense 5/10

Jackson:
Kicking 5/10
Defense 9/10

Could argue the ratings 'til the cows come home, I think they're good enough for a broadly illustrative point.

We play Newman to suit his kicking strength and nobody really whinges in the games where he leaks 5-6 goals (3-4 from his direct opponents and a couple in turnovers), they talk up his kicking strength, while Jackson can lay 15 tackles, smash the entire opposition midfield, win great clearances all day, and give a masterful display of defensive football, yet get hammered by some people for a couple of turnovers and dodgy kicks.

Not really fair, is it? They have opposite strengths which are not being valued correctly.



As I've pointed out several times already, you can't handball when there's nobody to receive it. Where we were at last year, Jackson was getting so many kicks because he was one of only a few who could run hard enough to support others in contests around the ground. When he got there he had no support and no option but to kick it long. I've invited you and others to come up with alternative plays he should have opted for, if you can't find any then maybe it's time to consider how many other times in the season he was placed in that opportunity.

Look at the clips, Jackson runs his guts out to support Martin, receives the handball, has no option but to kick long, does so, we end up with a goal. What you're effectively saying, is that you'd prefer Martin by himself on the wing turning the ball over because he has no support, because that's the only way Jackson's going to get less kicks - not turn up to support his teammates as often as he currently does.

Rayzor , Rayzor , Rayzor , have you never seen Sandilands take a mark and handball or kick , 2 of which I'd suggest not only is he capable but probably more capable than Jackson at .
As for Newman, saying a player is average at all and only elite kicking is quite different to saying he only has an elite kick . Similarly to players whom you reference to as average at everything except running or words to that effect .
Average I assume you mean average by AFL standard.
Now on Jacksons handballing , why is it we have other midfielders who have a greater handball/kick ratio , and don't rate your theory of due to a lack of fitness , contested footy is more taxing on the body than running ! Also other players whom play within other sides and play a similar role far exceed Jacksons h/ball to kick ratio .
Last season a couple of Jacksons direct opponents were very influential , he has a lot of major below AFL standard facets , including , kicking execution, handball execution , decision making , over committment to tackles , and the more than exceptable level of brain fades which result in stupid 50 metro penalties and suspension. There isn't the option to move him elsewhere back or forward as he has a large turning circle and even in the midfield is regularly turned inside out , as so to speak.
IMO he either models his game on a Kirk, get the ball and handball to others or should be played at Coburg , the amount of pressure his turnovers and poor decision making puts our defenders under is unexceptable , whilst the lack of confidence our players have to lead when he has the ball is further evidence they have absolutely limited confidence in his ability with the ball
in hand . The players reaction when he receives the footy simulates that of a turn over, maybe we have a side of Nostradamus' .
The fact that you have spent time to assemble that vid clip and that's the best you can come up with , for a player who has been in the system for 7 years , clearly echo's my views !
The comparisons between Jackson and others he will never get anywhere near in turns of ability has been amusing .
Yes he can and probably does have a role , plenty of others have indentified their deficiencies/ efficiencies and been very good players by working within their capabilities, but his game shouldn't be about him getting kicks !

 

[Haggard H]

Rayzor , Rayzor , Rayzor , have you never seen Sandilands take a mark and handball or kick , 2 of which I'd suggest not only is he capable but probably more capable than Jackson at .
!

Now we're just getting silly.

 

[Rayzorwire]

IMO he either models his game on a Kirk, get the ball and handball to others or should be played at Coburg...

There's literally nothing in that post that's not flat out ridiculous ptf, and you haven't got anywhere near addressing the points I made, so let's just say you keep your opinion, you reject this opportunity to be educated as to why Hardwick finds him a vital player, and we leave the matter there?

When you're leading with the assertion that Sandilands has better disposal than him, it just screams that your bias is beyond any point where it's worth trying to communicate around it.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Rayzor , Rayzor , Rayzor , have you never seen Sandilands take a mark and handball or kick , 2 of which I'd suggest not only is he capable but probably more capable than Jackson at ....

The way i see it...

DJackson is one of the few AFL players going around that is big enough and hard enough to bring that big MF'ker goliath down with a legitimate tackle in the center square and even hurt him....

And whats even more important...without hurting himself in the tackle...

And that ladies and gentlemen is good enough for me......

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Rayzor , Rayzor , Rayzor , have you never seen Sandilands take a mark and handball or kick , 2 of which I'd suggest not only is he capable but probably more capable than Jackson at ....

The way i see it...

DJackson is one of the few AFL players going around that is big enough and hard enough to bring that big MF'ker goliath down with a legitimate tackle in the center square and even hurt him....

And whats even more important...without hurting himself in the tackle...

And that ladies and gentlemen is good enough for me......

Beauty so we play a player for the sole purpose that they defend one facet of one players game ?

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

There's literally nothing in that post that's not flat out ridiculous ptf, and you haven't got anywhere near addressing the points I made, so let's just say you keep your opinion, you reject this opportunity to be educated as to why Hardwick finds him a vital player, and we leave the matter there?

When you're leading with the assertion that Sandilands has better disposal than him, it just screams that your bias is beyond any point where it's worth trying to communicate around it.

Correct Rayzor there is little point communicating with you , you fail to see any wrong doing what so ever of those whom you support , and go around and around in circles hoping that a hole opens for you to pounce and have a little win .
Problem is Rayzor that some of the comparisons you attempt to drum up to ascert your position are just plain ridiculous .
Who in their right mind would bring Sandilands into a debate about Daniel Jackson ?
If you can't see that Jackson has a resounding deficiency in decision making and disposal , you have no hope !
As I previously stated , you've spent time to gather that clip and that's the best highlight clip you can come up !

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Beauty so we play a player for the sole purpose that they defend one facet of one players game ?

My oath we do......

Just like that big MF'ker sandilands is only good as a ruckman...

Incidentally...DJackson can also run, handball, mark, tackle and even kick the ball long...a lot quicker than that big MF'ker Sandilands...

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

My oath we do......

Just like that big MF'ker sandilands is only good as a ruckman...

Incidentally...DJackson can also run, handball, mark, tackle and even kick the ball long...a lot quicker than that big MF'ker Sandilands...

Why are you comparing Jackson with Sandilands ?

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Why are you comparing Jackson with Sandilands ?

Thats a very good point!...you tell me......

 

[Rayzorwire]

Correct Rayzor there is little point communicating with you , you fail to see any wrong doing what so ever of those whom you support

Why do you trot out these tiresome falsehoods ptf? I've conceded Jackson's flaws on countless occasions, refusing to recognise that is just your lame way of trying to pretend I'm as bad as you when it comes to bias.

Who in their right mind would bring Sandilands into a debate about Daniel Jackson ?

It starts with your patently ridiculous assertion that players can't make the AFL if they have only one elite talent, then when you're shown the folly of that statement by my using Sandilands' ruck work as a prime example to prove the point, you end up trying to dodge conceding anything by pretending Sandilands has good disposal. If you had to, you'd happily pretend he could run better, had redder hair, whatever it takes...with your predilection for the truly bizarre you could end up anywhere and no doubt would.

--------------------

I started out the thread partly to discuss how long kicking for territory of the type Jackson uses in the clips is part of our game plan and is increasingly becoming a weapon which sides use - there was an article about it yesterday in the HUN:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...ook-to-kick-long/story-e6frf9jf-1226024723140

"I think one of the ways of combating the press is to kick it over the top of it," Newman said...


"I think you'll see a lot of games now played with some longer kicking."


...


Boyd said "creative handballing" is almost impossible with increased numbers around the ball.
"A lot times players are just going to have to try to get their kick in, clear the area and get numbers to the fall of the ball," Boyd said.

You heard it here first.

We've staked a lot of our rebuild on this brand of football and you can see why Hardwick chased Martin, Grigg and Conca and why he loves Jackson/Tuck/King.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

"A lot times players are just going to have to try to get their kick in, clear the area and get numbers to the fall of the ball," Boyd said.

I often wondered why that tactic has not been utilized more...

I realize that you let yourself open to turnovers and rebounds...but the beauty of it is that it breaks open the game...

And against Collingwoods forward press it makes sense to kick long to the boundary where there are few opposition players, and have fast runners that can chase the ball down and then try to lock the ball up or kick even further..

Its almost a rugby union/league scenario of kick and chase...

With large numbers you can either press forward, collingwood style, or lock it up Swans style...

With numbers you can control the play, ball and even the umpire...

Its a physical demanding style of play...works a treat if you have a big skillfull mobile side...

No wonder the pies have such a high interchange rate...its a war of attrition..last man standing stuff...

 

[Bazzar]

In the HUNs AFL 2011 Footy lift out in the Richmond section, they had the ‘6 Pack’ that included, Jack, tall forwards focusing on Griffiths, lack of quality forward smalls focusing on Nahas, middle men focusing on Foley, the future focusing on Conca, and one called ‘Action Jackson’ and it read -

'For a savvy bloke, Daniel Jackson can find himself in dumb situations. Played just 14 games last year, missing eight through suspension and injury. Injury is excusable, suspensions are not. He is a leader and cant lead from the sidelines. Will be again be Richmond’s main run-with player’

 

[Rayzorwire]

Its almost a rugby union/league scenario of kick and chase...

Exactly JAK, I made the same point a few days ago on this thread when explaining the first clip where Jackson kicks long.

The best thing about being able to kick over or past a press is that when you do the press starts working against them - they have no targets in space and have to take higher risk options to rebound, again, like the first clip example.

Guys who can kick a genuine flat, hard long ball (which is only designed to gain territory) like Jackson can are valuable commodities the way the game is heading.

Its a physical demanding style of play...works a treat if you have a big skillfull mobile side...

And a side with five of the league's top-20 clearance winners.

'For a savvy bloke, Daniel Jackson can find himself in dumb situations. Played just 14 games last year, missing eight through suspension and injury. Injury is excusable, suspensions are not.

Yeah Baz, it's a fair call, let's hope he's learned from the Brown incident and that his body allows him to play a full season.

 

[Bazzar]

Yeah Baz, it's a fair call, let's hope he's learned from the Brown incident and that his body allows him to play a full season.

It is a fair call, but more importantly it appears the review also rates Jackson’s contributions to our structure. We are a far better unit when he is up and firing.

 

[Rayzorwire]

LOL...ah OK, I guess I took that part as common knowledge.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Why do you trot out these tiresome falsehoods ptf? I've conceded Jackson's flaws on countless occasions, refusing to recognise that is just your lame way of trying to pretend I'm as bad as you when it comes to bias.
Would you like me to trot out a little post or two from the past, again Rayzor


It starts with your patently ridiculous assertion that players can't make the AFL if they have only one elite talent, then when you're shown the folly of that statement by my using Sandilands' ruck work as a prime example to prove the point, you end up trying to dodge conceding anything by pretending Sandilands has good disposal. If you had to, you'd happily pretend he could run better, had redder hair, whatever it takes...with your predilection for the truly bizarre you could end up anywhere and no doubt would.

--------------------

I started out the thread partly to discuss how long kicking for territory of the type Jackson uses in the clips is part of our game plan and is increasingly becoming a weapon which sides use - there was an article about it yesterday in the HUN:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...ook-to-kick-long/story-e6frf9jf-1226024723140

You heard it here first.

We've staked a lot of our rebuild on this brand of football and you can see why Hardwick chased Martin, Grigg and Conca and why he loves Jackson/Tuck/King.

Rayzor if your knowledge of talent identification is that poor that you really believe players with one single elite talent can make it , good for you !
Once again why are AFL clubs increasing recruiting staff, surely it's simpler , 43 players from each of the TAC cup sides are tested each year , just sift through the results and take the one who tops in the facet we require , no need to view them or consider anything else they do within a game ?
There is also a very stark difference to increasing the length of kicking to bombing away , but hey nice try there to!
Mind you I'm glad you appear to have finally identified that Jackson does just bomb away , just ashame you couldn't identify the difference between the headline and content of the article !
I'm sure we'll see a smile on Dimmas face when Jacko bangs it onto the boot and either kicks it out on the full or directly to an opposing player sitting across half back !
Don't feel isolated Rayzor others in the past have argued and tried to turn everything possible around to argue the value of our past integral players . Like Flemming , Tivendale , Hyde and wait for it Ray Hall .

 

[Rayzorwire]

I didn't realise that being a good moderator involved trying your best to bait other posters into recurring verbal abuse fests and burying decent threads in worthless crap ptf, but I'm sure you know what you're doing, right?

 

[Bazzar]

I didn't realise that being a good moderator involved trying your best to bait other posters into recurring verbal abuse fests and burying decent threads in worthless crap ptf, but I'm sure you know what you're doing, right?

Red and Yellow cards galore when the shoe is on the other foot.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

I'm sure we'll see a smile on Dimmas face when Jacko bangs it onto the boot

DJackson has played under DHardwick for a full AFL season, he's also put in two pre-seasons under him as well...

Throw in a couple of seasons also where Dimma as assistant coach would have been well aware of Jacko's attributes as a player...

It would not be unreasonable to make the obvious assumption then that Dimma likes what Jacko brings to the club as a player...right...?!?!...

Otherwise why keep selecting him...

Jacko is obviously doing a job for Dimma that brings a...smile on Dimmas face...and he's doing it well......

 

[Haggard H]

I didn't realise that being a good moderator involved trying your best to bait other posters into recurring verbal abuse fests and burying decent threads in worthless crap ptf, but I'm sure you know what you're doing, right?

Gotta admit Rayz, that was ****ed, and from a mod is pathetic.