Think he has played a few games there in the Reserves, Dlanod would know more.
List Mgmt. What do we do in the off season re. our list?
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Think he has played a few games there in the Reserves, Dlanod would know more.
I think I agree with this sentiment moreso than Leemas. Im a massive fan of his but I don't think he'll ever be a star. His work rate, elite fitness (which I dont think gets talked about enough) and footy nous makes me think he projects more to be a Jack Redden type. A cog in hopefully a very decent midfield
It's an interesting question. Someone like Jordan Lewis is an important and effective midfielder for his side, but I'd struggle to identify his outstanding attribute.
I agree that Keays hasn't shown any standout characteristics, but I think:
- he runs hard
- as Elixuh said, he's really active around the ball
- to my eye, he has pretty clean hands off the ground
- his ball use seems pretty effective with the exception of his kicking for goal
- his tackling and contested work is good for someone his size (ie before putting on muscle)
- he clearly is good at following team instructions, as evidenced by his B&F placing.
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Elixuh
See you on the 9th green at 9
If he can become a Jack Redden type but with quality decision-making and skill execution (both of which I think he possesses) then we've got a good player.
dlanod
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I don't get out to see the seconds a heap, but they do tend to rotate most of the talls through there.
He's a good looking forward though without much physical presence at this stage. He's a terrible ruck. Basically worse than Lobb in all those points, which is why he's not been getting a game this year.
You'd really want him to play forward because that's the price you'd be paying but he probably wouldn't be ridiculously expensive if he wants out, I'd guess a 2017 second rounder might get it done because he's under contract. I'm not sure how the lack of physical presence would go down back but Tomlinson seems to be going ok and I'd have said the same about him (McStay too).
POBT
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Has he shown enough to warrant this sort of price?
From what I've seen, he's played his best footy as a 2nd/3rd tall forward. It probably isn't a genuine area of weakness for us now.
Stewart's nickname upon arrival would almost certainly have to be Alf.
chopperduck
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Useless stat for where and how he was playing anyway. Has as much relevance as rebound 50's. Pressure, tackles 1%ers would be my KPIs for where and how he was playing.
I think you're FLAMIN' right
I always thought Ben was a midfielder however people say he has played in the forward line. He looks good with ball in hand, just he could never get near it or in position to get it in the forward line.
Played a defensive forward role all year. His role wasnt to get the ball, it was to apply tackling pressure to the small defenders.
that role should be for the less talented
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I would think Stewart would attract quite a bit of attention and cost more than some are suggesting. Even Collingwood might have a second look. GWS might want a red-headed small forward.
John_Proctor
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This quote related to the comment that Keays had averaged 80m gained for the year.
I completely disagree that its a useless stat for the role he was playing. I think many stats are useless in and of themselves but it is intructive to look at how people perform on particular stats relative to other players. 80m doesn't mean much but when you compare it to many other players in the league it is unusually low amount for metres gained... I just flicked through some 'metres gained' stats (on the AFL app) and struggled to find another player below 150. Hippy was 160m, Green 200m+ Caleb Daniel and Cyril Rioli 250mish, I looked to other 'struggling' young forwards and found Ben Lennon from Richmond was ~190m and the closest comparitor I found was Long from Essendon at 135m (I think he played the last 3 games of the season)
Clearly I'm wrong based on the B&F voting but how someone who many people on this board thought was playing as a midfielder only managed to gain 80m per game is beyond me. To me it shows he offers almost nothing going in the forward direction, as I posted the other day generally the role of forwards at any half decent club is to be a link player between defence and attack - he should be getting out in the open on the wing at least a few times a game and creating forward momentum for us. Clearly he isn't spreading (sorry to use that word) enough to create those opportunities for himself which then generate 'metres gained'. (how many times have we watched average opposition players get those cheap possessions this season? I know we are the s**t team but they must be there for our players to get occasionally, Bewick seems to for example (233m gained)).
The low metres gained has also reminded me that in watching him I've noticed he handballs a lot and the stats bare that out - averages are roughly 3.5 kicks and 6.5 handballs. Often a case (to me) of get ball, handball to someone else, 'job done' in his possessions.
As I said in that earlier post I don't agree with the original post that he should be delisted or traded, I think he has shown reasonable skills and good tackling pressure to suggest he can 'make it.' I believe its an indictment on the club that he played 16 games this year and on our standards that he polled well in the B&F and that people on this board are saying having a unusually low metres gained figure is acceptable.
chopperduck
Brownlow Medallist
End of the day he is a first year player playing a more defensive forward position. I think he is playing that role half from necessity and half to develop his defensive side. He will develop more into the midfield as he improves.
He might not be getting much of the ball, or as much as others or finding ball up on the wing because his role isnt to do that. He isnt being a link player or much of a target up forward kicking at goal, which is how you would generate most of the meters gained. I would be worried if he was meant to be playing a HF link role but he isnt, so the stat shows lil to nothing on his performance.
He might not be getting much of the ball, or as much as others or finding ball up on the wing because his role isnt to do that. He isnt being a link player or much of a target up forward kicking at goal, which is how you would generate most of the meters gained. I would be worried if he was meant to be playing a HF link role but he isnt, so the stat shows lil to nothing on his performance.
dlanod
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That's a surprise to me - I thought we were watching the games and coming to the conclusion that he largely was forward of the ball, in one of the most deprived forward lines in the competition. Bewick played a lot more up the wings for example.
BTW there's plenty of guys below 150m in our team alone, not even including Lester who barely cleared that bar (151.9):
- Andrews,
- Gardiner,
- Schache,
- Merrett,
- McStay,
- Harwood,
- Hammelmann,
- Jansen (hey, someone who played a similar role in a similarly crap team),
- Robertson,
- Dawson,
- Paine,
- Freeman,
- Smith,
- West (fewer than Keays),
- Clayton,
- Close and
- Evans.
I would think a player like Hipwood only has to have a few shots on goal from outside or around 50m to drop short to rack up 160m gained.
For Keays, a lot of his disposals would have gone backwards, given the role and position he played. Many more were short passes and many of those sideways.
Wouldn't worry a bit about his metres gained.
Despite how crap we were on field, it was the only position we could really play him in. He showed a bit. He'll probably play more a roaming HFF role next year imo.
Well said.I really respect your view. Some players can go into a struggling club and thrive,while others need greater support mechanisms in place, to help them achieve the best they can be.unfortunately, Brisbane I feel cannot offer the type of support, Ben needs to advance his footy development and he may be better served,going to a stronger club with far more/ better advanced support mechanisms in place,hence my opinion.His skill set ,in my opinion is poor, compared to others ( this is not having a go at Ben) and is not what Brisbane needs right now.So the question is, has the club got the ability at this point in time, to really bring out the best in Ben and help him achieve the best he can be as a footballer. I again say no.
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Elixuh
See you on the 9th green at 9
Surprised Harwood played 13 games this season. I thought it was a lot less.
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