Roast What do we do?

[_Wang_]

I am literally depressed about the prospect of the status quo/ groundhog day happening next year.

Benny and Peggy pull the trigger and make the changes

 

[mopsy]

It amazes me how people just say yeah keep him he's ok, Na not him get rid of that one he's shit, he's a dud that one, ahhhh this ones ok keep this one...
And it's not players they are talking about its all the coaches?
How the **** would anyone know if somebody is doing a good job and another bloke not?
Example Chocco Williams always gets a tick because he won a flag 12 ******* years ago, the other Mark Williams is a dud because he is not Chocco, on and on.
For me if the coach goes they all go, and if for some reason the coach stays I reckon they all go too.

Gotta agree. Judge em all on their performance and results. If we did that with chocco he would get the axe.

To me outside of the corporate running of the club you can go thru every area and most people would not tick those two very basic boxes.

I will reiterate one of the very first things we should do is put in place review systems for everyone review systems that work whose judgement is not biased because of close proximity.

How hard would it be to put in place kpi's that have to be met and then rate those kpi's against performance.

I am not being naive here i fully expect all people to get some things wrong. What i can not stomach is us getting most things wrong which really seems to be the case when it comes to the entire F/D.
If you tolerate mediocrity you will eventually wallow in mediocrity which is exactly what has happened.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Gotta agree. Judge em all on their performance and results. If we did that with chocco he would get the axe.

To me outside of the corporate running of the club you can go thru every area and most people would not tick those two very basic boxes.

I will reiterate one of the very first things we should do is put in place review systems for everyone review systems that work whose judgement is not biased because of close proximity.

How hard would it be to put in place kpi's that have to be met and then rate those kpi's against performance.

I am not being naive here i fully expect all people to get some things wrong. What i can not stomach is us getting most things wrong which really seems to be the case when it comes to the entire F/D.
If you tolerate mediocrity you will eventually wallow in mediocrity which is exactly what has happened.

This already happens

Kpis with regular accountability and review for all staff (not just playing staff) was brought in with 3-0-75

 

[Tigerriffic]

2016 Off-Season Changes

Coaches
Hardwick - keep
Brendon Lade - replace
Ross Smith - keep
Mark Wilbur Williams - **** off why the **** did we hire Melbourne's development and midfield coach from when they were an absolute rabble. Shit coach.
Mark Choco Williams - keep
Ben Rutten - keep
Greg Mellor - Think about it
Ryan Ferguson & Andrew McQualter - why are these people our development coaches???

Football Director - get one

Recruiting team - overhaul

Trade Bait
Ty Vickery - Round 2 compensation pick (if we get lucky)
Brandon Ellis - Only if we get a top 15 pick - I think Ellis is still perceived as a good player by outsiders so if we can trade him for a good price then take it, otherwise hold on.
Bachar Houli - Only for a top 30 pick
Ben Lennon - Only for pick in the top 20
Ben Griffiths - If we can get into the top 20 ala Rhys Stanley
Jake Batchelor - Test the waters I suppose? See if a third rounder comes and take it.
Reece Conca - Anything in the top 25
Kane Lambert - again test the waters, you never know when a stupidly dumb club might make a move who knows

Retire/Delist
Maric - sorry to say it
Chaplin - cooked
McKenzie obviously
Moore
Townsend
Marcon
Butler (I think will have to go)
Hunt
Morris

 

[Tigerriffic]

Couldn't agree with this post any more, except Hardwick also has to be told to develop a playing style that incorporates fast scoring opportunities and a defensive tackling mindset when we don't have the ball, let the players play footy, if your scoring at any level you enjoy it more and lets be honest it is a confidence sport so attack more defend better.

It is not all doom and gloom, if you go through our player list I think we have a fairly good 24 players, and around six others that are role players, they are the kind like Batchelor who is not a best 24 player but a replacement for Grimes type when injured. By my calculations we have around 30 players that can fill a role but atleast six are batchelor type players that can be kept as role players only and every team needs these type. If we can upgrade some of these players with some from a GWS who can't get a game it will add to our depth.

No one has mentioned this but Injuries do have an affect on a teams performance, unfortunately we have had too many which has meant that Hardwick has had to play too many role type players at the one time which detracts significantly when some of those are poor decision makers or have a poor skill set. Most of our injuries have been in the back half and every team these days relies heavily upon scoring from the back. We have had Rance, Grimes, Houli, Yarran, Conca, Deleidio and even CEllis all out over the year for periods which gives no continuity.

I agree it is doom and gloom at the moment but is it all as bad as it seems player wise ? Add another quality midfielder even Vlaustin as a mid next year, do all you can to get a hurley which should only cost money and do a Bulldogs and chase a Peter Wright or Jon Patton type to replace Vickery and are we that bad, I think not.

 

[mopsy]

This already happens

Kpis with regular accountability and review for all staff (not just playing staff) was brought in with 3-0-75

Clearly the way they assess is not working which was rather the point.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Clearly the way they assess is not working which was rather the point.

Not necessarily, could be three things

1) the kpi is measured incorrectly (your suggestion)

2) the kpi is too low

3) the kpi doesn't have the correlation to the issue it was designed to monitor

My experience its usually (3). Just look at the talk on footy stats here. We want to measure the output of a ruck. Some use hit outs, some look at clearances (as it indicates the hit out was successful), some include possessions to show around the ground work

Also a player may be failing to hit their kpis for reasons accepted by the club (ie forced to okay out of position due to injuries in the team)

 

[Jimmy6019]

Footy Classified kicked off with the Tigers stuff tonight

Carro reckons 2 or 3 assistant coaches to be informed by August 1 that their contracts won't be renewed. But Hardwick is safe for 2017 but not necessarily 2018 . Big changes I n the recruiting department next year.

Lloyd said he'd make 13 changes to the list. Trade Conca, Lennon, Vickery, Griff. Delist - hunt, Chaplin, maric, Moore, and 5 others I can't remember .

Hutchy reckons our game plan is stuffed and outdated and not rated by good clubs.

Damian Barret reckons big mistake to re-sign Hardwick at the start of the year, not up to it.

Sadly I have no doubt they will keep Hardwick on next year and we will have to endure a whole pre-season of relentless spin and scapegoating of his assistants. Another slow death and year down the drain for Tigers fans just so Benny and Peggy can save face. Christ why did my father have to be a Richmond supporter.

 

[Gentlemen]

Sadly I have no doubt they will keep Hardwick on next year and we will have to endure a whole pre-season of relentless spin and scapegoating of his assistants. Another slow death and year down the drain for Tigers fans just so Benny and Peggy can save face. Christ why did my father have to be a Richmond supporter.

You're free to leave whenever you want, no legally binding contract keeping you here

 

[bigstyletiger]

Couldn't agree with this post any more, except Hardwick also has to be told to develop a playing style that incorporates fast scoring opportunities and a defensive tackling mindset when we don't have the ball, let the players play footy, if your scoring at any level you enjoy it more and lets be honest it is a confidence sport so attack more defend better.

It is not all doom and gloom, if you go through our player list I think we have a fairly good 24 players, and around six others that are role players, they are the kind like Batchelor who is not a best 24 player but a replacement for Grimes type when injured. By my calculations we have around 30 players that can fill a role but atleast six are batchelor type players that can be kept as role players only and every team needs these type. If we can upgrade some of these players with some from a GWS who can't get a game it will add to our depth.

No one has mentioned this but Injuries do have an affect on a teams performance, unfortunately we have had too many which has meant that Hardwick has had to play too many role type players at the one time which detracts significantly when some of those are poor decision makers or have a poor skill set. Most of our injuries have been in the back half and every team these days relies heavily upon scoring from the back. We have had Rance, Grimes, Houli, Yarran, Conca, Deleidio and even CEllis all out over the year for periods which gives no continuity.

I agree it is doom and gloom at the moment but is it all as bad as it seems player wise ? Add another quality midfielder even Vlaustin as a mid next year, do all you can to get a hurley which should only cost money and do a Bulldogs and chase a Peter Wright or Jon Patton type to replace Vickery and are we that bad, I think not.

I agree with a lot of this. Our best 24 with continuity is a decent side and has some runs on the board over the last 3/4 seasons.

We have 5 guns - Lids, Rance, Riewoldt, Cotchin and Dusty

We have a solid core of players in - Grimes, Vlastuin, Edwards, B Ellis, A Miles, S Grigg, K MacIntosh, R Conca, S Lloyd, B Houli, S Hampson (on this years form) C Yarran (would love to see him fit and healthy)

and some decent kids coming through and playing games - C Ellis, C Menadue, D Rioli, B Lennon, J Short

roll players: Astbury, Batchelor, Griffiths, Vickery, Morris

Aside from lack of continuity especially to running backs I think largely the issue is that we have too many key position players who haven't lived up to their draft position and have turned into roll players - namely Vickery and Griffiths and that our midfield is lacking an enforcer/enforcers now that Jackson is retired and Maric is cooked.

I'm hoping that the club pulls off a miracle off season and off loads Vickery/Griffiths for something inside the first 30 picks and picks up J Patton and J Steele from GWS. Injecting a fit K MacIntosh, Houli and Yarran into out backline will give it some serious ability to launch attacks. Steele will give our midfield some grunt and Patton will bring the ability to crash packs that Tyrone and Griff are unable to do.

With Houli, Yarran and McIntosh in the backline we could also push Vlastuin into a centre square roll. This will give both our midfield more grunt as well as our whole side more running power and hopefully the ability to move the ball a lot quicker and score a lot quicker and thus reduce the sideways movement. No doubt Dimma and the club are not dimwits and they know this is a problem hence the recruitment of Yarran and the trialling of McIntosh down back, B Ellis, C Ellis, Conca and Friday's move of injecting Deledio into the back half.

this season is no doubt cooked and I want to see the club give as many young players as possible a run in the ones as well as working on game plan for next season but I don't think all is lost.

 

[poppa pump]

WE WERE pretty stupid in thinking that adding z graders would fix some of our problems, instead we have added more problems with the shit we got this season, NEWSFLASH TIGERS, ADDING DOG SHIT TO HUMAN SHIT STILL STINKS.

 

[tugga]

Recruiting staff needs a major overhaul. Francis Jackson has failed massively. he's the first I want gone. Hartley did a job for the first couple of seasons. Houli, Maric, Grigg and Chaplin played their roles and got us competitive, but since then Hartley has done nothing.
A club can't onbviously make 20 changes to their list, but it's horrible reading when I went through the names and passed judgement on their value to us and other clubs.

Vlastuin - keep
Grimes - if we can get a top 30 pick, trade.
Deledio - I'd be inclined to keep. You don't just trade away career-Richmond players for the sake of it. If a club offer a top 5 pick, I'd consider it.
Martin - keep
B. Ellis - if we can get a top 25 pick, trade
Grigg - I'd trade, but I doubt we'd get anything for him. Better off keeping.
Lennon - trade
Riewoldt - keep and make captain
Cotchin - I'd trade for a top 5 pick
Edwards - trade if we can get a top 25 picks
Batchelor - delist
Astbury - delist
Yarran - keep, worthless on the open market given his problems
Houli - keep as I doubt we'd get more than a top 30 pick for him.
Moore - lol, delist
Hampson - keep out of necessity
Rioli - keep
Rance - keep
Maric - retire
Townsend - delist
Lambert - delist
Griffiths - trade for a top 30 pick
Chaplin - retire
Miles - would put up for trade, but only for a top 20 pick. Happy to keep.
Lloyd - keep, but only because we wouldn't get much for him
Hunt - delist
Vickery - trade for a 2nd rounder
Conca - trade for a top 30 picks
Markov - delist
C. Ellis - keep
McIntosh - keep
McBean - trade/delist
broad - delist
Menadue - keep
Morris - retire
Drummond - keep
Butler - delist
McKenzie - retire
Elton - delist
Short - keep
Castanga - keep to see if he can come on and develop

 

[CoggaRules]

Not necessarily, could be three things

1) the kpi is measured incorrectly (your suggestion)

2) the kpi is too low

3) the kpi doesn't have the correlation to the issue it was designed to monitor

My experience its usually (3). Just look at the talk on footy stats here. We want to measure the output of a ruck. Some use hit outs, some look at clearances (as it indicates the hit out was successful), some include possessions to show around the ground work

Also a player may be failing to hit their kpis for reasons accepted by the club (ie forced to okay out of position due to injuries in the team)

Or 4) the kpi is misinterpreted as a kfc and they all just chow down on zinger burgers.

 

[CoggaRules]

Recruiting staff needs a major overhaul. Francis Jackson has failed massively. he's the first I want gone. Hartley did a job for the first couple of seasons. Houli, Maric, Grigg and Chaplin played their roles and got us competitive, but since then Hartley has done nothing.
A club can't onbviously make 20 changes to their list, but it's horrible reading when I went through the names and passed judgement on their value to us and other clubs.

Vlastuin - keep
Grimes - if we can get a top 30 pick, trade.
Deledio - I'd be inclined to keep. You don't just trade away career-Richmond players for the sake of it. If a club offer a top 5 pick, I'd consider it.
Martin - keep
B. Ellis - if we can get a top 25 pick, trade
Grigg - I'd trade, but I doubt we'd get anything for him. Better off keeping.
Lennon - trade
Riewoldt - keep and make captain
Cotchin - I'd trade for a top 5 pick
Edwards - trade if we can get a top 25 picks
Batchelor - delist
Astbury - delist
Yarran - keep, worthless on the open market given his problems
Houli - keep as I doubt we'd get more than a top 30 pick for him.
Moore - lol, delist
Hampson - keep out of necessity
Rioli - keep
Rance - keep
Maric - retire
Townsend - delist
Lambert - delist
Griffiths - trade for a top 30 pick
Chaplin - retire
Miles - would put up for trade, but only for a top 20 pick. Happy to keep.
Lloyd - keep, but only because we wouldn't get much for him
Hunt - delist
Vickery - trade for a 2nd rounder
Conca - trade for a top 30 picks
Markov - delist
C. Ellis - keep
McIntosh - keep
McBean - trade/delist
broad - delist
Menadue - keep
Morris - retire
Drummond - keep
Butler - delist
McKenzie - retire
Elton - delist
Short - keep
Castanga - keep to see if he can come on and develop

and thats what the club is going to pay consultants to do...like spot on dude..

 

[Achilles Heel]

Replacing our Football Department with elite talent is easy, Rodney.
Just pick the "Best of Big Footy" and we'll win five in a row.




Before I forget...

probably wouldn't do any worse than the incumbents

 

[Achilles Heel]

Or 4) the kpi is misinterpreted as a kfc and they all just chow down on zinger burgers.

is Relton Coming back?

 

[This Is Anfield]

probably wouldn't do any worse than the incumbents

No doubt things (what these things are is the big question, questions really) have to be done, things most probably are being done.
I do feel that the incumbents have done a reasonably good job up to this season. In a very difficult environment that is not getting any easier.
It will be interesting indeed to see how the rest of this season, the off/pre season and the start of the next season unfold.

 

[Achilles Heel]

No doubt things (what these things are is the big question, questions really) have to be done, things most probably are being done.
I do feel that the incumbents have done a reasonably good job up to this season. In a very difficult environment that is not getting any easier.
It will be interesting indeed to see how the rest of this season, the off/pre season and the start of the next season unfold.

It will indeed, however our last three preseasons have not been anything to write home about.

A team that's not ready from the get go is poor in any sport, do it once aberration twice habit three times, its time for some to get the heave ho, not be rewarded which is what OUR club has done

 

[I Rock]

If the Club (Board) is going to really make a hard line decision on where the list is at, then all aspects of the Football Department need to be addressed. It will be all good and well to (potentially) make changes to Recruitment and the Assistance Coaches. However if they are still going to honour the two years to Hardwick and rate him on performance, then the Playing List will not be cut deep enough and it will (likely) be another year or two of patches over gapping holes because the bloke at the helm needs to get results top keep his pay check.

If Club are just going to mope around and think "well Yarran may come back and if Vickery and Griffiths can get us 60 goals a Season between them then we need a skinny flanker we can teach the Richmond way......" etc etc. Then it won't make any difference who they move on or keep as it will just be more of the same.

The Board needs to be realistic of where the Playing List is really at, then regardless of how long Hardwick has left on his contract. Calculate if he is the bloke to rebuild/rejuvenate/reset (whatever key word is the in thing these days) the Playing Group towards a realistic attempt at a Flag. If they don't think he is, then pay him out. Otherwise (and it will be a horrible reality for some of us) they need to back Hardwick in for even longer to turn the list around (again), this time doing it correctly. No stop gap measures to keep the sponsors.... sorry I mean "supporters" appeased.

 

[I Rock]

I am literally depressed about the prospect of the status quo/ groundhog day happening next year.

Benny and Peggy pull the trigger and make the changes

 

[guruisatiger]

No I don't because as you've said what happened at Melbourne doesn't interest you. Only what's happened at Hawthorn.

You are just fishing out of morbid curiosity. It's kind of creepy.

Lot of creepy things going on in here it is big footy after all.

 

[This Is Anfield]

It will indeed, however our last three preseasons have not been anything to write home about.

A team that's not ready from the get go is poor in any sport, do it once aberration twice habit three times, its time for some to get the heave ho, not be rewarded which is what OUR club has done

Agree that our starts have been extremely disappointing.
That one point loss to Collingwood could turn out to be a blessing as a two zip start wasn't deserved in hindsight.
Most people would agree, even us flower sniffers, that we have reached a point where the list has stalled.
For all of our EF failings some of our football over the past four seasons has been quite good, or better, at times. We are a long way from that this season.
At the start of the season I felt that we, along with a number of other clubs, needed everything to go right for us to challenge this season, it went the other way.
Our best players needed to be at their best - this has gone right.
We needed our second tier to step up - this has gone horribly wrong.
We needed luck on the injury front - we haven't had much.
We needed our mature recruits to have an impact - not much can be said about this.
This season is ****ed.

I do believe that "within the four walls" the club had an inkling that this might happen, hence the coaching extension.
Also, it is probably why so many are uncontracted and the football department is on notice.

Just because some of us don't rant and rave it doesn't mean that we are blind to what's going on, ST.
I hope that we are aggressive and active in recruiting and trading and we get some mongrel in our game.
We are more capable than we have shown this season but there has always been massive room for improvement.

 

[matt_y106]

Thoughts on this off season?

Trade (If nothing suitable, keep) Edwards, miles, griff, vickery, grigg, Houli, Astbury, B. Ellis
Trade (If nothing, delist) : Lambert, Hunt, Butler
Delist: Chappy, Moore
Retire: Maric, Morris, Mckenzie, Moore
That's 17 spots that we could turn over in a pre season.

Add Hurley, Prestia, Jake Spencer (As back up), Cam Ellis-Yeoman, Jack Trengove and maybe Marchbank/Steele/Tom Mitchell/Rory Lobb.

Yarran and McIntosh back from injury. Improvement from C. Ellis, Menadue, Lennon, Rioli, McBean and we are an entirely different team. But the hard calls need to be made

 

[TigerImposter]

Are we going after a big fish ? The club has gone quiet in this area. Normally they would be pumping out the spin advertising by now.

 

[tgrs]

by how lids talked lloydo up we should sack our fitness staff and just give him the keys to the weights room and a megaphone