Analysis What does Freo have to change to win a Premiership?

[tacopavlich]

There's a whole thread devoted to that with more than 800 posts. Not enough for you?

It's the quality issue not quantity.

 

[Square Peg]

It's the quality issue not quantity.

Ah, as I used to say to my girlfriend. It's not the wand it's the magic

 

[Purpellian Anchor]

Nah. We've already had Mundy tell us if you don't like things the way they are, then we are not real supporters. Stuff that. If the players want to play for the coach and not the club, that is their business, but I don't have to abide it.

lol the protagonist activist...but then I'd be a hypocrite to accuse you.

 

[Purpellian Anchor]

Malthouse - all about who has the momentum when finals arrive. But I think it is also game plans that can be carried out effectively (players/side in form). that are not stagnant and are not easily exploited come the end of the year.

 

[tacopavlich]

Ah. It's not the wand it's the magic

Analyzing cause and effect is not really as simple as you probably think it is. There are so many variables in AFL that a straight forward loss = bad coach / win = good coach doesn't work and requires a lot more nuance than that which you need to do when looking at any correlations.

We have a young immature list that has been ravaged by injury. On the weekend our players made dumb mistakes in key moments. It's not really fair to hang Ross based on that.

 

[Square Peg]

Analyzing cause and effect is not really as simple as you probably think it is. There are so many variables in AFL that a straight forward loss = bad coach / win = good coach doesn't work and requires a lot more nuance than that which you need to do when looking at any correlations.

We have a young immature list that has been ravaged by injury. On the weekend our players made dumb mistakes in key moments. It's not really fair to hang Ross based on that.

Wow really? Many variables impact on a game? When some posters said your first name was con, I didn't realise your surname was descending.

 

[Purpellian Anchor]

Ah, as I used to say to my girlfriend. It's not the wand it's the magic

Sitting duck...but I won't go there lol

 

[dont bowl there]

While I think he's done a great job this year, he's still inexperienced and learning. I'd still be keen on getting ex Freo boy Neil Balme, with Bell understudy.

I also like someone's suggestion about Mark Brayshaw for three years or so to get us back on our feet.

Has he done a great job this year? What has he actually achieved so far? Peter Bell as CEO in 2020 is one of the more ridiculous ideas I have ever heard, in what world does Peter Bell have any experience to be the CEO of the Fremantle Football Club?

How about we let him do his current job and see how that goes, I hope he will ultimately be successful however the people praising him are only doing so because of his club status.

 

[BlueE]

Has he done a great job this year? What has he actually achieved so far? Peter Bell as CEO in 2020 is one of the more ridiculous ideas I have ever heard, in what world does Peter Bell have any experience to be the CEO of the Fremantle Football Club?

How about we let him do his current job and see how that goes, I hope he will ultimately be successful however the people praising him are only doing so because of his club status.

I'm agreeing with you, I think. I wasn't a fan of getting Bell thinking it was too much of jobs for the boys, but I think he's job a very good job of footy manager, and has not the experience or ability yet to be CEO.

He's observing, learning popping up everywhere and trying to make changes but he's been overruled in a couple of big plays by Rosich. One example where I'd be backing Bell was when he was going for the new List Manager from Adelaide, but was overruled. Now he's the one in the firing line trying to meet with clubs to talk about Billy and not the L plater he wasn't allowed to replace.

I was suggesting Neil Balme for Rosich's position for a few years to get us back on track, which is what he's an expert at, then Bell can have a shot.

 

[dont bowl there]

I'm agreeing with you, I think. I wasn't a fan of getting Bell thinking it was too much of jobs for the boys, but I think he's job a very good job of footy manager, and has not the experience or ability yet to be CEO.

He's observing, learning popping up everywhere and trying to make changes but he's been overruled in a couple of big plays by Rosich. One example where I'd be backing Bell was when he was going for the new List Manager from Adelaide, but was overruled. Now he's the one in the firing line trying to meet with clubs to talk about Billy and not the L plater he wasn't allowed to replace.

I was suggesting Neil Balme for Rosich's position for a few years to get us back on track, which is what he's an expert at, then Bell can have a shot.

Sorry, my post was more aimed at the masses of fans that are fawning over what Peter Bell has done this season and talking him up for CEO in 2020. Balme would be an amazing get for the club with Bell learning everything he can for 4-5 years.

Bell has apparently been overruled twice now by Rosich, the Adelaide list manager and the Hogan trade. Troubling that both scenarios got as far as they did without Rosich and Bell being on the same page.

 

[PurpleEyes]

We need to improve on the little things.
Drill all players to know where the mark is. Man opposition marks with energy. Milk the angle when we are kicking for goal. Every metre counts.
Teach the players how to win free kicks and avoid those frees against. Learn how to block in marking contests, be aware of what the umps can see.
Energize the supporter club to make Optus oval a loud nightmare for the opposition and umpires.
On field leadership is now more important than ever with the limitations on runners. We would have won on Sunday with better on field leadership.
Team stability. We need more of those 50+ club game players. That leads to better on field leadership.

All of those things are very much controllable and improvements can be made and quantified.

 

[mr.11]

Simple answer is Depth!

We had it all those Ross Lyon early years! Need someone to able to fill anyones position if injured

 

[Kapow!!!]

While I think he's done a great job this year, he's still inexperienced and learning. I'd still be keen on getting ex Freo boy Neil Balme, with Bell understudy.

I also like someone's suggestion about Mark Brayshaw for three years or so to get us back on our feet.

I'm sorry but back on our feet? We're a profitable club rebuilding and have improved on our last couple of years with a tonne of injuries in key positions, obliterating any depth in the forward line. That line may have been throw away but Ffs we're nowhere near a basketcase so maybe our dialouge should at least reflect that.

 

[FreoMonocle]

- I know most of you give no s**ts about Freo but it would be good for Dockers to reconnect with it's roots in a new way. Connect with the success of the place. Freo is one of the great footy cities there's got to be a positive way to tap into that that the players and supporters can get around. We are so corporate feeling these days imo.

That ship sailed before our first game when the club wasn't allowed to be based off one or the other (or both) WAFL teams. We don't have a connection to all the achievements of the Freo clubs.

It's a franchise of the AFL, they heavily promote the Dockers, the Tigers etc for branding as they want you to be able to be a <club x> fan from anywhere. You don't need to be toothless and in Collingwood to support Collingwood, you support the Pies from anywhere. It's an AFL decision and has worked - there is a bigger buy in from the community and we wouldn't have much say in the matter and go it on our own with branding, for the same reason we are stuck with whatever flights are put on by whichever airline is the sponsor (of the AFL, not the Dockers) etc.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

Rosich needs to be fired as well as the pre-pubescant boy that is masqurading as our list manager. Hopefully the rumours are true and Bell is appointed and he can sort out the front-office.

 

[FreoMonocle]

Rosich needs to be fired as well as the pre-pubescant boy that is masqurading as our list manager. Hopefully the rumours are true and Bell is appointed and he can sort out the front-office.

Bell does not have the CV to run a multi million dollar business (CEO), so you can stop that train of thought right now.

For that matter, he was pretty scant on anything to be a General Manager (or in footy parlance, Head of Football). The job is not sitting around talking footy stuff. It's mostly employment contracts, industrial relations, budgets, presentations to department heads and upwards to the CEO and Board etc. Sure he has a law degree which will help on details, but not the job experience of management - in essence, as I read it he is the equivalent of a first year graduate coming in and not just as a manager, but as a manager of managers (he has several departments reporting to him). Plenty of potential upside to his appointment as head of football - but done with prayer and a sprinkle of pixie dust with the potential for it all to go horrifically wrong. (Nepotism and parachuting a green Hird into Essendon, what could go wrong?)

Happy to be corrected on his credentials. But I am of the understanding that he was an investor in business rather than running business, being a media commentator for a day job.

 

[BlueE]

I'm sorry but back on our feet? We're a profitable club rebuilding and have improved on our last couple of years with a tonne of injuries in key positions, obliterating any depth in the forward line. That line may have been throw away but Ffs we're nowhere near a basketcase so maybe our dialouge should at least reflect that.

Not talking about financial, although losing members and not being able to fill the stadium will impact in future if we don't sort out other problems.

I'd call getting back on our feet when we're making finals and a threat for Premiership. Includes getting S&C and coaching improvement. Also the situation now with Bell being over ruled and RTB getting his yes men in place (Rosich, Hale and Rock), S&C problems that may be more club policy than incompetence and losing our fairest and best players in consecutive years is the minimal that needs to be addressed.

 

[Kapow!!!]

Not talking about financial, although losing members and not being able to fill the stadium will impact in future if we don't sort out other problems.

I'd call getting back on our feet when we're making finals and a threat for Premiership. Includes getting S&C and coaching improvement. Also the situation now with Bell being over ruled and RTB getting his yes men in place (Rosich, Hale and Rock), S&C problems that may be more club policy than incompetence and losing our fairest and best players in consecutive years is the minimal that needs to be addressed.

That's a pretty tough measure for "on our feet". We're competitive in pretty much every game this season FFS. Making finals and winning flags is succeeding, recovering from being a 3-6 win season basketcase to, well, where we are now is what I'd call on our feet.

Whilst I somewhat agree with your overarching point that we need change in the coaching and departmental ranks, I truly detest the hyperbolic and alarmist discourse you and others have shown.

 

[FreoMonocle]

Also the situation now with Bell being over ruled and RTB getting his yes men in place (Rosich, Hale and Rock)

Saying it, does not make it true.

Where is the evidence that Bell has been over ruled? You wanted staff <X> gone, that does not mean that Bell did, even if he did want them gone, he could have elected to keep them as the lesser of 2 evils if a better replacement can't be found. Evidence please for his being over ruled.

In any event, Hale and Rock don't report to Bell, they aren't his choices to make, though he can elect to over rule. General managers will often sit in on the selection panel for major appointments, but I've only ever seen the actual manager of that appointment as being the person to choose (with advice from GM and HR person), Bell has plenty to do and if he were to micromanage the departments under him he would be a crap manager.


Now to Rosich, Ross is beholden to Steve for getting him the job and not the other way around. So, give us the evidence for Rosich being a yes man please. They will interact somewhat, but Ross doesn't report to him and they will be too busy doing their jobs to fraternise much.

Ultimately, if Rosich was Ross's yes man... That is on Bell's head, he should have done something about it when he was a director (when he had Rosich reporting to him).

 

[im_a_lazy_sod]

Simple answer is Depth!

We had it all those Ross Lyon early years! Need someone to able to fill anyones position if injured

Yeah. In 12-15 we had guys like C.Pearce/Mzungu/DeBoer/Suban etc. who were mid-sized, utility type players who weren't specialists in any real position but could play in the guts, half-back flank, half-forward-flank and - they key here - is they could run all day

They never filled those rules with any sort of gusto, but they gave where they played their all and were serviceable wherever they were put

Every team needs 10-12 special players - Rucks, Key position players, Taggers, Small-forwards. But the next group need to have some sort of versatility to their game otherwise there is no Plan B. If you lose a specialist player, you need at least 2-3 of those utility type blokes to be able to fill the hole, or for the next specialist to step in and the utility fills that spot

Need a balanced list and we are desperately lacking those sort of mid-sized utility enforcer type players, who could play just about anywhere if they had to and let the specialists do their bit. Need a new group of support players to replace the players we haven't replaced yet - Tucker/Hughes/Blakely are getting there but seem out of their depth when moved around too much.

 

[Freomaniac]

1st off, bring in a quality assistant coach or two. If freo are 3 and 7 by round 10 and We sack Lyon, have a half decent assistant coach to take over with a potiential chance to get it full time. Carlton and North did it. Why not us?

Replace the strength and Conditioning coach. Replace the fitness staff and medical staff. Harley Bennell was on our list for 4 years and he only played 2 dockers games. That is an injustice. I remember back many years ago, Byron Schammer had an appendix operation and was out for 10 weeks. Meanwhile Danyle Pearce at Port Adelaide had the same operation and was out for 10 days.

Get a new recruiter/scout. yeah our use of 1st round picks has been bad. But not getting Quality WA talent and letting them slip to the eastern states teams or even worse, the blue and yellow scum up the road, is inexcuseable.

Get a new list manager. David Noble was at the crows until the end of 2016. The Crows had moderate success from 2005-2016. Its hard to lure players. Its just as Hard to keep all the quality guys under the salary cap too.

Noble went to Brisbane at the end of 2016/ start of 2017. Noble as done some very good things at Brisbane in the 3 years there.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Attracting quality in the front office is the most important and also the hardest thing for us to do. Lyon is the only big name we have brought in.

We need some quality, highly rated assistants and, while it’s harsh given he hasn’t really been given a go, a respected list manager with some kind of success behind them. The fact we had to settle for a GC list dude for our list manager does not fill me with confidence in our ability to bring in elite off-field talent

 

[dont bowl there]

...While it’s harsh given he hasn’t really been given a go, a respected list manager with some kind of success behind them. The fact we had to settle for a GC list dude for our list manager does not fill me with confidence in our ability to bring in elite off-field talent

Could swap “GC” for club legend and “list manger” for head of football...so far from being convinced on Bell.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Could swap “GC” for club legend and “list manger” for head of football...so far from being convinced on Bell.

Its fair enough and I was less than sold on the initial decision to make him GM of Football. I would have preferred someone experienced in the role and from outside Freo. Almost everything Bell is reported to have done so far (hardball in trades last year, look to be gutting the assistants, focusing on WA talent and making sure the list manager is based in Perth and look to kick out the list manager for someone more qualified), i have agreed with. Its also pretty damn hard to attract highly experienced and regarded front-office personnel in the first place and given we likely couldnt bring in any big names, I think his credentials were (just) enough for the role. I cant say the same for dude who has worked at arguably the worst managed list in the AFL for the couple of years before us.

Calls for Bell to be CEO are beyond stupid as far as I'm concerned.

 

[dont bowl there]

Rightly or wrongly he hasn’t been able to achieve many of the things that have been reported.

Anyway as a club legend and a bloke that has many many media connections it’s a good PR hire if nothing else.