Prediction What happens next?

Do you reckon it will be good thing or a bad thing that will be no succession plan now?

  • Bad thing - if we could have had an orderly handover, that would have been best for the club

    Votes: 13 22.0%
  • Good thing - clean slate, new beginnings

    Votes: 46 78.0%

  • Total voters
    59

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cityslick1

All Australian
Feb 27, 2017
905
1,352
Japan
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Collingwood
Don’t think Buckley is as joined to Eddie as people think. He would’ve been as horrified as anyone with Eddies gaffes over the past however many years, and wouldn’t be surprised if he was one of his confidantes advising him to go. Plenty of clubs would kill to have Bucks as a head coach, and we’re still the only team to smash Richmond in a finals game in the past 3 years. And he’s far from being a racist. Hopefully he can relax a little now. Without the extra pressure coming from Eddies negative attention on the club. He (along with the leadership) have done a great job of keeping the playing group separate to what’s going on in front office.
Give the guy a chance.. some game strategy issues need to be sorted, but he does not deserve to be under the microscope as much as Eddie was.
 

Piestration

Club Legend
Apr 5, 2014
1,668
1,812
Perth
AFL Club
Collingwood
Settlement of what exactly? Has Lumumba lodged a law suit, seeking damages for mental health issues caused by racial vilification?

I don’t doubt that the Club has/had cultural problems and feel that Eddie should have handed over the reins years ago but Lumumba seems to just want to burn the whole place down. He won’t be satisfied until Buckley, Maxwell, Pendles, Sidebottom and any others from that era follow Eddie out the door.


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I agree he has hate towards many and will never be satisfied. I want to see the truth come out and improvement made at the club but unfortunately I see this being settled.
 

LuckyLee

All Australian
Mar 23, 2019
801
1,449
AFL Club
Collingwood
I agree he has hate towards many and will never be satisfied. I want to see the truth come out and improvement made at the club but unfortunately I see this being settled.
As in a financial payment being made from the Club to Lumumba? To what end? Would that satisfy and silence him? I doubt it. He just wants to see the club and it’s supporters burned to the ground.


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Kappa

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 7, 2014
20,829
25,702
AFL Club
Collingwood
Don’t think Buckley is as joined to Eddie as people think. He would’ve been as horrified as anyone with Eddies gaffes over the past however many years, and wouldn’t be surprised if he was one of his confidantes advising him to go. Plenty of clubs would kill to have Bucks as a head coach, and we’re still the only team to smash Richmond in a finals game in the past 3 years. And he’s far from being a racist. Hopefully he can relax a little now. Without the extra pressure coming from Eddies negative attention on the club. He (along with the leadership) have done a great job of keeping the playing group separate to what’s going on in front office.
Give the guy a chance.. some game strategy issues need to be sorted, but he does not deserve to be under the microscope as much as Eddie was.
This won't relax Bucks, Eddie is one of Buck's biggest cheerleaders... The new President likely won't be so attached.
 

sr36

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 20, 2009
21,261
29,292
Vietnam
AFL Club
Collingwood
When they selected an activist to run the investigation this result was always going to eventuate. I found very little in the report stretching over 50 years but every incident was always going to get magnified 100 times.
The report was really fair and balanced. The only thing in it that is inflammatory is the language of the loaded term 'structural racism'. It's a standard definition, so they can't be criticised for it. But the word racism triggers an image and response of rage in many, understandably considering the historical context, and some people pull out their machetes and start going the hack - rather than understanding that under current definitions, some forms of racism bare little similarity to the images that the word evoke and are simply errors devoid of prejudice or are not doing things as well as they should be done in order to ensure racial inclusion - which is all the report's findings ahve pointed out - but it sounds outrageous when the term racism is used. The report's recommendations will make the club a better place - just got to bunker down, make the changes and try to avoid too many unnecessary casualties to the machette's that are being brandished - unfortunately Eddie was a necessary unavoidable sacrifice.
 
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sideswipe

Premiership Player
Jun 10, 2014
4,550
7,271
AFL Club
Collingwood
The report was really fair and balanced. The only thing in it that is inflammatory is the language of the loaded term 'structural racism'. It's a standard definition, so they can't be criticised for it. But the word racism triggers an image and response of rage in many, understandably considering the historical context, and some people pull out their machetes and start going the hack - rather than understanding that under current definitions, some forms of racism bare little similarity to the images that the word evoke and are simply errors devoid of prejudice or are not doing things as well as they should be done in order to ensure racial inclusion - which is all the report's findings ahve pointed out - but it sounds outrageous when the term racism is used. The report's recommendations will make the club a better place - just got to bunker down, make the changes and try to avoid too many unnecessary casualties to the machette's that are being brandished - unfortunately Eddie was a necessary sacrifice.
I don't know whether I would go so far as "really fair and balanced". I support the 18 recommendations, but one piece that didn't sit well with me was that the report listed the Club's stated values - belonging, commitment, realising potential and caring - then states there is a gap between what it says it stands for and what it does. Then says this disconnect is most stark when comparing the stated values against the historical events.

Now I think its a bit harsh to say that the values that are currently in place aren't reflected in historical events - a sort of retrospective application of the "newer" values against past events?

But the recommendations are fair, so the above doesn't really matter.
 

jonmacTrag

Club Legend
May 27, 2020
1,416
1,562
AFL Club
Collingwood
Simply whisper the word 'racism' with a question mark and many will froth at the mouth and reach for the lynching rope whilst looking for a victim.

Racism is untenable but society's current dealing with 'possible' racism is nothing less than hysterical.

Too often it's lynch mob or witch hunt mentality that takes over - fanned by the media and in particular the twits - err twitters and faceless err facebook keyboard hero's looking for instant recognition and gratification.

There have already been many wrongly vilified, their lives destroyed and the families shattered by such behavior.

It's an incredibly high price to pay for freedom of attack ermm speach.
 

sr36

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 20, 2009
21,261
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I don't know whether I would go so far as "really fair and balanced". I support the 18 recommendations, but one piece that didn't sit well with me was that the report listed the Club's stated values - belonging, commitment, realising potential and caring - then states there is a gap between what it says it stands for and what it does. Then says this disconnect is most stark when comparing the stated values against the historical events.

Now I think its a bit harsh to say that the values that are currently in place aren't reflected in historical events - a sort of retrospective application of the "newer" values against past events?

But the recommendations are fair, so the above doesn't really matter.
So you're saying really fair and balanced isn't really fair and balanced. I tend to agree.

In terms of the review and the recommendations - the whole ridiculous thing about the massive drama and side taking that has occurred is that I think that everyone inside and outside the club will happily agree with the vast majority of the recommendations. The only one that will cause any disagreement is preferential hiring practices.
 

Horaceg

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 29, 2014
5,614
5,564
Sydney
AFL Club
Collingwood
It's the little things that have got me scared. The way people have twisted words and are attacking everything that is said or done. I've seen memes of us compared to the KKK and other horrible organisations. Clearly we have issues to work on, but the outrage on this seems disproportionate to me. The report itself seems beyond question. I do not think we are inherently racist, but people will just scream at me for even suggesting Collingwood isn't evil.

We commissioned the report ffs! What have other clubs learned by watching this? They'll all do their best to sweep their issues under a rug now.

I guess what is scary is that despite our efforts to improve, no one is allowed to say it do anything to support us right now. I'm actually scared to keep up our premiership poster in my office. We've been targeted for cancelling.
The problem is that people who attack are no better than what they are attacking, when they take their point out of reality and into the extreme. They don't help the issue, they are not looking to the solution but creating further divide and outrage. What we actually need is a coming together, stop the blaming and work towards the end game.

I am not skeptical of the report and have great belief that all recommendations will be instigated at the Club. I am keen to see the outcome with Heritier and hope it is not a settlement reached behind closed doors and it is open and transparent.
 

Hardas

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May 7, 2011
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jackcass

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 8, 2007
22,596
20,315
Bendigo
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They were originally left wing, counter culture, anti establishment movements

Fast forward and the left is now very much a part of the establishment. Hence these ideas are more mainstream because every uni graduate journo comes from a social science university sector that is beholden to left wing politics.

Explains in part why you never find a conservative position sprouted by any of the journos or editors of the ABC. The majority of them are left leaning because they were taught at university to see the world that way
I blame little Johnnie. His government went to great lengths to marginalise free thinking.
 

jackcass

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 8, 2007
22,596
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Bendigo
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That's not an answer to an intelligent question. Why would you do that? Surely a straight question deserves a considered response?
Freedom of speech and freedom of religion do not allow hateful and hurtful comments to be made without consequence. Falou got his right whack and people who think otherwise remain part of the problem, not the solution.

Edit: and it’s interesting that people who are uncomfortable having the mirror turned on them give posts like mine above a thumbs down.
 
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Gone Critical

Moderator
Mar 11, 2007
12,296
16,793
Abbotsford
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I will be very surprised if we see any galvanising effect. The club looks split. The playing group is lower part of 8 at best but potentially quite inexperienced.

I doubt this will be a good year to be a 1st or 2nd year player at Collingwood. Real chance a few will need to be tested before they are ready. These kids have almost all just missed a year of footy development and will need nurturing

Hard to do effectively in a fractured club where the outside world is looking for blood
 

jackcass

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 8, 2007
22,596
20,315
Bendigo
AFL Club
Collingwood
In response to the OP, I'm very nervous for what the future holds. Living through the New Magpies era left scars not easily erased. I personally think an orderly and planned transition would have alleviated much of that. Ed has previously stated that the club has initiated the search for his replacement both internally and externally. I hope the events of yesterday don't cause the process to be rushed.
 

jmac70

Premium Gold
Apr 10, 2010
39,658
41,731
Melbourne
AFL Club
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Only a handful of left wing causes
1. Racism
2. Indigenous and other black peoples
3. LGBTQI
4. Refugees
5. Women
6. Climate change
Only have to read left wing publications to see 80-90% of their articles only cover these 6 or so topics... so whilst these are all legitimate social issues, the left wing obsessions (near religious fixation) with them over anything else makes them a leftwing cause

Sometimes the left wing publications will delve more broadly into other social issues e.g suicide... but only indigenous suicide rates. Family violence... but only women’s experiences of it. Religious intolerance... but only Muslims experience of it

Plenty of social issues and disadvantaged groups out there but lefties only really focus on their set menu of disadvantaged identities and climate change. A lot of this has to do with academia, the influence of activists and the old Marxist battle lines that ran contrary to Conservative positions on family, sexuality, race, religion, nationhood, etc
Are these not right wing causes too? They sound important
 

Gone Critical

Moderator
Mar 11, 2007
12,296
16,793
Abbotsford
AFL Club
Collingwood
The report was really fair and balanced. The only thing in it that is inflammatory is the language of the loaded term 'structural racism'. It's a standard definition, so they can't be criticised for it. But the word racism triggers an image and response of rage in many, understandably considering the historical context, and some people pull out their machetes and start going the hack - rather than understanding that under current definitions, some forms of racism bare little similarity to the images that the word evoke and are simply errors devoid of prejudice or are not doing things as well as they should be done in order to ensure racial inclusion - which is all the report's findings ahve pointed out - but it sounds outrageous when the term racism is used. The report's recommendations will make the club a better place - just got to bunker down, make the changes and try to avoid too many unnecessary casualties to the machette's that are being brandished - unfortunately Eddie was a necessary unavoidable sacrifice.
Very well put
 

whiskeytown

Premiership Player
Nov 16, 2014
3,118
4,298
AFL Club
Collingwood
We tend to view the left economically as naturally aligning with social liberals and the right aligning with social conservatives, because that's the way it's panned out in the west due to our two party systems and the most powerful voice for conservatism - the churches - choosing the economic right (in no small part becasue Marx declared war on religion). But the countries that actually had socialist revolutions are the most socially conservative of all. Leftie conservatives and rightie liberals aren't a bizarre phenomenon, history is full of them - and in many ways they seem like they should be more natural when you think about the relative freedoms and control in the different economic and social beliefs. I always find it funny when conservatives talk about standing for freedom.
Fair points. Always those anomalies. These days it’s mostly at the fringes e.g. some Christian churches embracing same sex marriage or gay priests

And on the right... Libertarianism has no friends when it comes to its calls to decriminalise drugs

However for the most part in 2021 the battle lines are drawn. Right wingers believe this, left believe that. In fact many people have no idea, but just take whichever side their political position does

Hence the ‘left’ crying racism, turning on Eddie, and immediately taking Lumumbas side,... and the ‘right’ feeling Eddie has been hard done by, turning on Lumumba, lamenting the over reach of identity politics etc
 

No SPIN

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 14, 2009
5,663
4,720
Vic
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What about Religious Racism? How do you feel about Isreal Folau? He is being refused the opportunity to play NRL because of his Religious beliefs, do agree with the NRL? or are you just Selective in your anti Racism? If you believe that it's ok for a person to be villified because of his beliefs, then you are just a nuffie Selective SJW. You are not neutral, you are way left, the worst part is that you can't even see it
Spend 4 minutes watching this highly pertinent clip from a West Wing episode - it eloquently posits that the bible is inadequate justification for bigotry in the modern era..

 

Markfs

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 13, 2008
13,588
10,160
Fremantle
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Margot Robbie's Shaving Team...
A Holgate - Sizer ticket is the other I'd throw into the mix.
Holgate has already given one example where she demonstrated lack of objectivity.... whatever you think about the watches, it was stupid to not realise the perceptions of outsiders if news of it got out. That is right out of the eddie playbook. And on another level, she is an opportunist magpie supporter. I'm not looking for the bleed magpie blood types, but i'm not sure i can take someone who sees being a magpie fan as a career move.
 

sr36

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 20, 2009
21,261
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I am inclined to agree that Lumumba was most likely the catalyst for the review, perhaps on the grounds that Eddie believed the review would show the club's recent racism record in a good light and discredit Lumumba's rather threadbare claims. While Lumumba's claims haven't gained weight. the impact of the report's release has propelled him into the public eye where he has become the go to expert on racism in sport, the man who 'was called chimp for 7 years'. Lumumba will enter his course case riding the wave of popular appeal and the club's defence will be disadvantaged as a result. It's all a big mess really, one which was probably unwittingly created in the belief that the club ran a clean organisation.,
With the q hotel keeping the Andrews's govt stuff up on the front page for months and now this response, I wouldn't want to earn a living as a review writer. No more hiding behind - we've commissioned an external review.
 

whiskeytown

Premiership Player
Nov 16, 2014
3,118
4,298
AFL Club
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Are these not right wing causes too? They sound important
They’re all across the board social issues. But they are much more prevalent, agenda driven and politically charged than social issues like disability, mental health, suicide prevention, etc

But how often do we hear about those issues compared to identity politics? If you audit a weeks worth of news from say the Greens Gazette... I mean The Guardian... you’ll find they ignore regular coverage of relatively apolitical social issues like suicide or disability in favour of identity politics and climate change. In part because that’s what the uni academics and Greens party do.

When the reality is there are more suicides per year in Australia than total number of transgender people living in Australia (not having a dig at transgender people)

Right wingers focus on their set of social issues too. Migration, Multiculturalism, Radical Islam, PC censorship ... being just a few
 
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Markfs

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 13, 2008
13,588
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Fremantle
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Margot Robbie's Shaving Team...
Spend 4 minutes watching this highly pertinent clip from a West Wing episode - it eloquently posits that the bible is inadequate justification for bigotry in the modern era..

show me the reference in the bible that says logic wins over what the bible says...
 

jackcass

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 8, 2007
22,596
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Bendigo
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Holgate has already given one example where she demonstrated lack of objectivity.... whatever you think about the watches, it was stupid to not realise the perceptions of outsiders if news of it got out. That is right out of the eddie playbook. And on another level, she is an opportunist magpie supporter. I'm not looking for the bleed magpie blood types, but i'm not sure i can take someone who sees being a magpie fan as a career move.
Let the person who has never made a mistake cast the first stone. Just because hers was a very public episode doesn't make it any more than that. She has a very impressive resume, is well spoken and considered. If we're looking for the someone who is without blemish we may need to remove them from the cross prior to them taking the position.
 

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