Analysis What has happened since quarter time in Round 17?

[bradfisher14]

With all due respect, I think it is delusional to suggest that injuries alone are responsible for our demise.

The rot began well before injuries hit a breaking point.

My two main reasons are as follows:

- We got found out tactically and our coaches haven't found an answer.

- The selection committee messed with team chemistry/harmony by dropping Hewett to sub v Tigers and then dropping him entirely against GWS. It killed the synergy we had started to build as a team during our early season wins. But more importantly I think it killed the team culture that was beginning to take hold after decades of crap. The entire list witnessed one of our hardest workers and most consistent performers get dropped for Cerra who is highly paid and unreliable. Doing that was IMO completely toxic for culture as it removes the incentive for the team to work hard.

 

[The Sultan]

could it be as simple as we have not committed to what we are and how to play.. the media faps on about how you have to play hok ball (or insert team that's winning). Play the cards we have in best way possible.. we dont need to play red-line all the time, the generals on the field should be calling when to go and when to hold. Keep it simple

Also is it worth running walsh off the half back. Listening to hodge on the radio this monring and he said that clarko told him that he was going to half back, and that he needs to put team glory ahead of his own i.e. brownlows etc.

 

[Stamos]

With all due respect, I think it is delusional to suggest that injuries alone are responsible for our demise.

The rot began well before injuries hit a breaking point.

My two main reasons are as follows:

- We got found out tactically and our coaches haven't found an answer.

- The selection committee messed with team chemistry/harmony by dropping Hewett to sub v Tigers and then dropping him entirely against GWS. It killed the synergy we had started to build as a team during our early season wins. But more importantly I think it killed the team culture that was beginning to take hold after decades of crap. The entire list witnessed one of our hardest workers and most consistent performers get dropped for Cerra who is highly paid and unreliable. Doing that was IMO completely toxic for culture as it removes the incentive for the team to work hard.

I don't agree with your first reason. Clubs knew beforehand.

As to your second, yes, but I think you've missed the bigger point.
We seemed to get ahead of ourselves. Both the coaches with selection and strategy, which then filtered through to the players, who absolutely dropped their bundle against the Giants and the Dogs.

And Hewett was only one part of the selection debacle from rounds 16-19.
From the team that belted Geelong in one of our better team performances in recent memory:

R16 Tiges: Out - TDK sore, Durdin (sub previous week) dropped. In - Pitto (obviously), Cerra (off no 2s games, and a total of 2 games in nearly 3 months) then Hewett sub.
On the surface nothing really wrong here, we win by 10 goals, but it sets the context for:

R17 Giants: Out - Pitto and George dropped. In - TDK (who had just missed sore) and Cottrell (hadn't played in 2 months, no 2s games). Owies sub.
So coming up against Briggs, we drop Pitto who had killed the Giants earlier in the year to play a sore TDK 1 out, and drop Hewett so we can play both Cerra and Cottrell who had hardly played. Appalling selection that was looking ahead rather than grasping just how important that specific game and the next week were to really set up our season. This was exacerbated by the injuries to Charlie and Walsh.

R18 Dogs: Out - Gov (injured), Fantasia (dropped). In - Marchbank (obvious replacement), Pitto. Kennedy sub.
Just diabolical. 2 rucks against English, so not only do we stuff our ruck selection the week before, we double down by getting it wrong again! Plus in the space of 3 games from a brilliant win we chose to move George (completely) and Kennedy (starting) from the team, to be replaced by Cerra and Cottrell with no form.

R19 North: there's 3 forced changes through injury and illness, but we drop Kemp, and Pitto! coming up against Xerri!
We win, but get really banged up, and TDK misses the rest of the season after getting smashed by Xerri.
So across 3 games, we pick the only 1 where you really shouldn't play 2 rucks to play 2 rucks, and leave a sore TDK 1 out for the 2 games where you could play 2 rucks.

5 day break to Port. No TDK and Acres both injured, H sick. 1 of those 3 play we get over the line.

Then we bottle it against the Filth.

 

[CCurnow3picks]

With all due respect, I think it is delusional to suggest that injuries alone are responsible for our demise.

The rot began well before injuries hit a breaking point.

My two main reasons are as follows:

- We got found out tactically and our coaches haven't found an answer.

- The selection committee messed with team chemistry/harmony by dropping Hewett to sub v Tigers and then dropping him entirely against GWS. It killed the synergy we had started to build as a team during our early season wins. But more importantly I think it killed the team culture that was beginning to take hold after decades of crap. The entire list witnessed one of our hardest workers and most consistent performers get dropped for Cerra who is highly paid and unreliable. Doing that was IMO completely toxic for culture as it removes the incentive for the team to work hard.

I for one certainly didn’t say injuries were the only factor.

Ignoring it as equally as delusional .

 

[CCurnow3picks]

I don't agree with your first reason. Clubs knew beforehand.

As to your second, yes, but I think you've missed the bigger point.
We seemed to get ahead of ourselves. Both the coaches with selection and strategy, which then filtered through to the players, who absolutely dropped their bundle against the Giants and the Dogs.

And Hewett was only one part of the selection debacle from rounds 16-19.
From the team that belted Geelong in one of our better team performances in recent memory:

R16 Tiges: Out - TDK sore, Durdin (sub previous week) dropped. In - Pitto (obviously), Cerra (off no 2s games, and a total of 2 games in nearly 3 months) then Hewett sub.
On the surface nothing really wrong here, we win by 10 goals, but it sets the context for:

R17 Giants: Out - Pitto and George dropped. In - TDK (who had just missed sore) and Cottrell (hadn't played in 2 months, no 2s games). Owies sub.
So coming up against Briggs, we drop Pitto who had killed the Giants earlier in the year to play a sore TDK 1 out, and drop Hewett so we can play both Cerra and Cottrell who had hardly played. Appalling selection that was looking ahead rather than grasping just how important that specific game and the next week were to really set up our season. This was exacerbated by the injuries to Charlie and Walsh.

R18 Dogs: Out - Gov (injured), Fantasia (dropped). In - Marchbank (obvious replacement), Pitto. Kennedy sub.
Just diabolical. 2 rucks against English, so not only do we stuff our ruck selection the week before, we double down by getting it wrong again! Plus in the space of 3 games from a brilliant win we chose to move George (completely) and Kennedy (starting) from the team, to be replaced by Cerra and Cottrell with no form.

R19 North: there's 3 forced changes through injury and illness, but we drop Kemp, and Pitto! coming up against Xerri!
We win, but get really banged up, and TDK misses the rest of the season after getting smashed by Xerri.
So across 3 games, we pick the only 1 where you really shouldn't play 2 rucks to play 2 rucks, and leave a sore TDK 1 out for the 2 games where you could play 2 rucks.

5 day break to Port. No TDK and Acres both injured, H sick. 1 of those 3 play we get over the line.

Then we bottle it against the Filth.

Yeah, but please don’t mention the injuries! Lol

 

[Stamos]

Yeah, but please don’t mention the injuries! Lol

Huh?

 

[CCurnow3picks]

Huh?

See previous posts - we have all sorts of issues to fix of course.

But others seem to want to ignore that injuries were also a major factor in our performance since R15 last year.

 

[Stamos]

See previous posts - we have all sorts of issues to fix of course.

But others seem to want to ignore that injuries were also a major factor in our performance since R15 last year.

I'd say only a major factor post Round 19.

 

[CCurnow3picks]

I'd say only a major factor post Round 19.

None the less a "major" factor for the last 6 weeks (at least). It can't be ignored.

 

[Bletch]

I'd say only a major factor post Round 19.

Reckon it was Charlie's ankle injury v GWS that killed us. Should not have played through it.

 

[Stamos]

Reckon it was Charlie's ankle injury v GWS that killed us. Should not have played through it.

And whatever happened to Walsh.
Although we should still have been able to beat the Giants and the Dogs, which would have made a massive difference to how we approached the last 6 games.

 

[Bletch]

And whatever happened to Walsh.
Although we should still have been able to beat the Giants and the Dogs, which would have made a massive difference to how we approached the last 6 games.

Walsh was the battering he got from the Norf thug I think. Didn't look the same after that.

 

[Stamos]

Walsh was the battering he got from the Norf thug I think. Didn't look the same after that.

He had really poor games against both the Giants and the Dogs, after being in red hot form.
I'm assuming the injury came in that Round 17 week.

 

[bradfisher14]

I for one certainly didn’t say injuries were the only factor.

Ignoring it as equally as delusional .

You did say that you thought it was the biggest factor.

I strongly disagree with that, while also acknowledging that it reached a tipping point late in the season.

 

[GoBlues!]

Injuries played a part but all teams have injuries. Our depth replacement players not up to standard?

I think the way we played Kennedy and Owies as sub, and stuffed Hewett about as sub and VFL I think, while we accomodated/carried Cerra and Cottrell back from injuries and out of form didn’t help.

 

[ESKIE]

Leaving your stars on the bench for too long in the last quarter

 

[CCurnow3picks]

You did say that you thought it was the biggest factor.

I strongly disagree with that, while also acknowledging that it reached a tipping point late in the season.

With 23 players injured for various periods, across our last 11 games - 19 of which are arguably best 23 - yeah I’d say that was the biggest aspect of our fall from 2nd to 8th during that time.

Not sure how you could argue otherwise - unless of course there’s another agenda…

 

[bradfisher14]

With 23 players injured for various periods, across our last 11 games - 19 of which are arguably best 23 - yeah I’d say that was the biggest aspect of our fall from 2nd to 8th during that time.

I haven't got the numbers in front of me, but I seem to remember us having a lot of injuries during the run of form that culminated in the massive wins over Geelong and Richmond. Injuries weren't a problem then, so why are they a problem when we lose to the Giants a week later?

Not sure how you could argue otherwise - unless of course there’s another agenda…

My only agenda is wanting Carlton to win a premiership and trying to understand where we are going wrong in that pursuit.

What agenda do you think I have?

 

[agro]

I haven't got the numbers in front of me, but I seem to remember us having a lot of injuries during the run of form that culminated in the massive wins over Geelong and Richmond. Injuries weren't a problem then, so why are they a problem when we lose to the Giants a week later?

My only agenda is wanting Carlton to win a premiership and trying to understand where we are going wrong in that pursuit.

What agenda do you think I have?

Ego is not a dirty word.

 

[CCurnow3picks]

I haven't got the numbers in front of me, but I seem to remember us having a lot of injuries during the run of form that culminated in the massive wins over Geelong and Richmond. Injuries weren't a problem then, so why are they a problem when we lose to the Giants a week later?

My only agenda is wanting Carlton to win a premiership and trying to understand where we are going wrong in that pursuit.

What agenda do you think I have?

That’s for you to answer I suppose.

We all want the team to get better - but there are so many darts thrown blindly.

Coaches
Players
List Management
High performance
HOF
The ex-president
The board

This thread is called “what happened since qtr time in R17?”.

It’s a refreshing question, because it stops the “sack & trade everyone” rhetoric & forces a look at what really happened.

It started with a sh**load of injuries - our unavoidable truth.

 

[Kruezing]

Apart from injuries some shocking calls by the MC and coaches …

 

[Stamos]

It started with a sh**load of injuries - our unavoidable truth.

This I don’t agree with.
It started in Round 17. The injuries only started to kill us in Round 20.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

I don't agree with your first reason. Clubs knew beforehand.

As to your second, yes, but I think you've missed the bigger point.
We seemed to get ahead of ourselves. Both the coaches with selection and strategy, which then filtered through to the players, who absolutely dropped their bundle against the Giants and the Dogs.

And Hewett was only one part of the selection debacle from rounds 16-19.
From the team that belted Geelong in one of our better team performances in recent memory:

R16 Tiges: Out - TDK sore, Durdin (sub previous week) dropped. In - Pitto (obviously), Cerra (off no 2s games, and a total of 2 games in nearly 3 months) then Hewett sub.
On the surface nothing really wrong here, we win by 10 goals, but it sets the context for:

R17 Giants: Out - Pitto and George dropped. In - TDK (who had just missed sore) and Cottrell (hadn't played in 2 months, no 2s games). Owies sub.
So coming up against Briggs, we drop Pitto who had killed the Giants earlier in the year to play a sore TDK 1 out, and drop Hewett so we can play both Cerra and Cottrell who had hardly played. Appalling selection that was looking ahead rather than grasping just how important that specific game and the next week were to really set up our season. This was exacerbated by the injuries to Charlie and Walsh.

R18 Dogs: Out - Gov (injured), Fantasia (dropped). In - Marchbank (obvious replacement), Pitto. Kennedy sub.
Just diabolical. 2 rucks against English, so not only do we stuff our ruck selection the week before, we double down by getting it wrong again! Plus in the space of 3 games from a brilliant win we chose to move George (completely) and Kennedy (starting) from the team, to be replaced by Cerra and Cottrell with no form.

R19 North: there's 3 forced changes through injury and illness, but we drop Kemp, and Pitto! coming up against Xerri!
We win, but get really banged up, and TDK misses the rest of the season after getting smashed by Xerri.
So across 3 games, we pick the only 1 where you really shouldn't play 2 rucks to play 2 rucks, and leave a sore TDK 1 out for the 2 games where you could play 2 rucks.

5 day break to Port. No TDK and Acres both injured, H sick. 1 of those 3 play we get over the line.

Then we bottle it against the Filth.

Sort of implies what OP said? It's more a matter of when.

 

[GoBlues!]

Apart from injuries some shocking calls by the MC and coaches …

This I think is being overlooked or underestimated.

I was hoping the preseason break would be a chance to reset. Some calls like playing Evans, benching Hewett while Cripps rucks are questionable. Let’s hope the MC and coaches can quickly learn from the past.

 

[Magruder]

I don't agree with your first reason. Clubs knew beforehand.

As to your second, yes, but I think you've missed the bigger point.
We seemed to get ahead of ourselves. Both the coaches with selection and strategy, which then filtered through to the players, who absolutely dropped their bundle against the Giants and the Dogs.

And Hewett was only one part of the selection debacle from rounds 16-19.
From the team that belted Geelong in one of our better team performances in recent memory:

R16 Tiges: Out - TDK sore, Durdin (sub previous week) dropped. In - Pitto (obviously), Cerra (off no 2s games, and a total of 2 games in nearly 3 months) then Hewett sub.
On the surface nothing really wrong here, we win by 10 goals, but it sets the context for:

R17 Giants: Out - Pitto and George dropped. In - TDK (who had just missed sore) and Cottrell (hadn't played in 2 months, no 2s games). Owies sub.
So coming up against Briggs, we drop Pitto who had killed the Giants earlier in the year to play a sore TDK 1 out, and drop Hewett so we can play both Cerra and Cottrell who had hardly played. Appalling selection that was looking ahead rather than grasping just how important that specific game and the next week were to really set up our season. This was exacerbated by the injuries to Charlie and Walsh.

R18 Dogs: Out - Gov (injured), Fantasia (dropped). In - Marchbank (obvious replacement), Pitto. Kennedy sub.
Just diabolical. 2 rucks against English, so not only do we stuff our ruck selection the week before, we double down by getting it wrong again! Plus in the space of 3 games from a brilliant win we chose to move George (completely) and Kennedy (starting) from the team, to be replaced by Cerra and Cottrell with no form.

R19 North: there's 3 forced changes through injury and illness, but we drop Kemp, and Pitto! coming up against Xerri!
We win, but get really banged up, and TDK misses the rest of the season after getting smashed by Xerri.
So across 3 games, we pick the only 1 where you really shouldn't play 2 rucks to play 2 rucks, and leave a sore TDK 1 out for the 2 games where you could play 2 rucks.

5 day break to Port. No TDK and Acres both injured, H sick. 1 of those 3 play we get over the line.

Then we bottle it against the Filth.

The selection decisions were truly bewildering. Particularly Ruck from R 17, 18 & 19. The complete opposite of what would be expected. Didn't understand it at the time, still don't.