Are they still going ?
who are the coburg Tigers ?
PA1870
who are the coburg Tigers ?
PA1870
What has happened to Cobur-Fitzroy Lions ????
- Thread starter Port Adelaide 1870
- Start date
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Tiger_Of_Old
THE_GUN:"Why don't you use your reg acc"7/9/24
the coburg-lions were in so trouble they have merged with the tigers in the vfl to be known as the coburg tigers.the lions jumper will be used in the vfl except when playing the stand alone afl sides in the comp when they will wear the yellow and black.
cheers!
cheers!
- Thread starter
- #3
Thanks for that...
Which Tigers did they merge with ? The Richmond Tigers or another VFA club known as the Tigers.. If not Richmond ..how will they get on when playing Richmond
PA1870
Mobbs
A Large Portion, Yes
Just clarifying what tiger_of_old said, the lions jumper referred to in his post is the Coburg Lions jumper (like Essendon's, but navy instead of black), not the Fitzroy Lions jumper.
The terms of the joint venture precluded Fitzroy remaining a part of the club. Frankly, that suited a lot of Roy fans, as they are (or at least I am) not too enthusiastic about getting into bed with a club that was my team's opponent during my memory.
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Hallowed be thy Roy
The terms of the joint venture precluded Fitzroy remaining a part of the club. Frankly, that suited a lot of Roy fans, as they are (or at least I am) not too enthusiastic about getting into bed with a club that was my team's opponent during my memory.
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Hallowed be thy Roy
Mobbs
A Large Portion, Yes
Richmond's magoos.
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Hallowed be thy Roy
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Hallowed be thy Roy
- Thread starter
- #6
So what of Fitzroy now ?????
Why werent they allowed to remain a part of Coburg ?
Are they the real Fitzroy...i.e. the entity that was once in the VFL and AFL ?
if so Who are Brisbane and how did they get the Fitzroy name etc. etc.
PA1870
T
Tank Taranto
Guest
They say the villain always returns to the scene of the crime.
So to did Richmond.
Not content with delivering the death blow to the Roys the first time around they returned & demanded that the cash strapped Cobrurg remove ALL traces of Fitzroy before getting into their new City Oval bed.
The following week Clit-on Casey announces a $600,000+ trading loss!
What tools.
Heaven help Coburg.
So to did Richmond.
Not content with delivering the death blow to the Roys the first time around they returned & demanded that the cash strapped Cobrurg remove ALL traces of Fitzroy before getting into their new City Oval bed.
The following week Clit-on Casey announces a $600,000+ trading loss!
What tools.
Heaven help Coburg.
Mobbs
A Large Portion, Yes
Complicated process to explain about Fitzroy. They entered into administration, as you'd have heard.
To put it REALLY simply, Brisbane ended up with Fitzroy's name as far as a right to field an AFL club was concerned.
The Fitzroy Football Club as far as a company is concerned, were eventually out of administration, and are still a trading business, without, of course, a team.
The joined into cahoots with Coburg, basically as a naming sponsor. For a start, Fitzroy were not permitted to enter into a business merger agreement. The name could not be changed to Coburg-Fitzroy. So they won name sponsor rights. So, like the Camry Crows, we had the Fitzroy Coburg Lions. The Fitzroy name was that of a company that sponsored Coburg.
Anyhoo, the real deal eventually happened. But then Coburg basically went bust. Fitzroy (P/L or whatever) were outside this bust-going. But Coburg could not field a team in 2001 while bust, Fitzroy or no.
So They entered into agreement with Richmond to 'merge' with the tiges' magoos. Richmond were only prepared to do this with Coburg, they didn't want anything to do with Fitzroy. So Coburg, with hands basically tied, bade farewel to the Roys.
Fitzroy (P/L or whatever) continue to sponsor the Fitzroy Reds in a Vic Amo comp, and also a couple of junior teams, also named Fitzroy. There has been speculation about them hooking up with Preston (another VFL stand-alone club), and also of building an U19 or U17 team, which could be a link from the kids, to feed Fitzroy Reds.
Incidentally, Reds used to be called University Reds, they changed to Fitzroy Reds as part of the sponsorship package that Fitzroy (P/L or whatever) offered. They already wore Roys guernsey, as far as I know.
Reds play at Brunswick Street, a fabled old home ground of the original Roys.
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Hallowed be thy Roy
To put it REALLY simply, Brisbane ended up with Fitzroy's name as far as a right to field an AFL club was concerned.
The Fitzroy Football Club as far as a company is concerned, were eventually out of administration, and are still a trading business, without, of course, a team.
The joined into cahoots with Coburg, basically as a naming sponsor. For a start, Fitzroy were not permitted to enter into a business merger agreement. The name could not be changed to Coburg-Fitzroy. So they won name sponsor rights. So, like the Camry Crows, we had the Fitzroy Coburg Lions. The Fitzroy name was that of a company that sponsored Coburg.
Anyhoo, the real deal eventually happened. But then Coburg basically went bust. Fitzroy (P/L or whatever) were outside this bust-going. But Coburg could not field a team in 2001 while bust, Fitzroy or no.
So They entered into agreement with Richmond to 'merge' with the tiges' magoos. Richmond were only prepared to do this with Coburg, they didn't want anything to do with Fitzroy. So Coburg, with hands basically tied, bade farewel to the Roys.
Fitzroy (P/L or whatever) continue to sponsor the Fitzroy Reds in a Vic Amo comp, and also a couple of junior teams, also named Fitzroy. There has been speculation about them hooking up with Preston (another VFL stand-alone club), and also of building an U19 or U17 team, which could be a link from the kids, to feed Fitzroy Reds.
Incidentally, Reds used to be called University Reds, they changed to Fitzroy Reds as part of the sponsorship package that Fitzroy (P/L or whatever) offered. They already wore Roys guernsey, as far as I know.
Reds play at Brunswick Street, a fabled old home ground of the original Roys.
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Hallowed be thy Roy
Woofer
Debutant
Tank : Is that you Vinny ?
Mobbs
A Large Portion, Yes
Yeah, what Vinnie said.
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Hallowed be thy Roy
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Hallowed be thy Roy
Mobbs
A Large Portion, Yes
Bloody hell, Woofer, you beat me to it. Now everyone's gonnah think I have no idea who the Coburg legend is, and that I just plaguerised yer.
(I saw his last game (reserves) while there as a Roys supporter. Yer gottah believe me!)
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Hallowed be thy Roy
(I saw his last game (reserves) while there as a Roys supporter. Yer gottah believe me!)
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Hallowed be thy Roy
Tiger_Of_Old
THE_GUN:"Why don't you use your reg acc"7/9/24
so tank your saying richmond is the only side in the afl last time i looked their were 15 other sides.if u wanna throw accusations at a club try north they were the ones who were very keen to see fitzroy go and yes richmond was one of the sides who stopped that merge happening with good reason however having said that the afl were very adamant that the fitz-bris merge was there prefered and only option.
the only clubs who ever get into finacial trouble and is bailed out by the afl are syd and bris they need both those sides to suceed no matter what even at the expense of clubs like fitzroy.
cheers!
the only clubs who ever get into finacial trouble and is bailed out by the afl are syd and bris they need both those sides to suceed no matter what even at the expense of clubs like fitzroy.
cheers!
Why oh why can't fitzroy have a standalone team in the VFL - surely that would suit everyone ?
T
Tank Taranto
Guest
Save me the sermon Tiger Of Old, I once barracked for Richmond.
Yes, it's me Woofer.
Yes, it's me Woofer.
- Thread starter
- #15
So what is stopping this Fitzroy P/L from forming a stand alone club and team...Sorry not forming, but being the registered owners of the Fitzroy trademark? continuing the tradition of Fitzroy in the VFL/VFA...
AND getting all their memorabilia back from Brisbane ?..
I would follow Fitzroy in the VFL/VFA..even get over for a game or two..
PA1870
AND getting all their memorabilia back from Brisbane ?..
I would follow Fitzroy in the VFL/VFA..even get over for a game or two..
PA1870
- Moderator
- #17
We've been through all this before, but in a nutshell.....
The club operations (including financial operations) of the Fitzroy Football Club Ltd. and the Brisbane Bears were merged. There is no doubt about that! I have a copy of the actual Deed of Arrangement in my hands as I type this. By the terms of the Deed of Arrangement (signed and agreed to by the administrator of the Fitzroy Football Club) all Fitzroy's memorabilia held by the club in 1996 belongs to the Brisbane Lions. There is also the small matter of a debenture of approximately $800,000 held by Brisbane against the Fitzroy Football Club Ltd.. According to what I have been told the Fitzroy Football Club Ltd. have questioned the legal validity of that debenture, but have been advised that if they took it to court they would most likely lose. To my knowledge the debenture has not been settled.
What's to stop Fitzroy forming a stand-alone team in the VFL?
Possibly at least four things....
1. The AFL, who have a huge influence over the VFL. While the AFL appear not to own the FFC logo, they do own the trademark Lion logo, now worn by Brisbane and possibly the colour scheme. However in 1999 when Coburg wanted to wear the FFC jumper and use the Fitzroy name, colours etc., for some of their matches the AFL handballed the issue to Brisbane and basically said if it alright with Brisbane it was alright by the AFL. Brisbane agreed to allow Coburg to wear the old FFC jumper and use the name "Fitzroy".
2. Brisbane Lions. For two reasons.
a) the formation of Fitzroy might dilute their Victorian presence and support.
b) the debenture that Fitzroy owes them.
I would regard a) being unlikely. Brisbane allowed Coburg the right to wear the Fitzroy jumper and use the Fitzroy name in the VFL in 1999 and it would be hard to see why they should change their mind now. Having attended Coburg-Fitzroy matches and Lions matches the formation of Coburg-Fitzroy appeared to have little effect on the number of Lions supporters for Brisbane Victorian matches.
b) ? Also unlikely. Brisbane have yet to claim the debenture after six years, so why they should suddenly do so, would be a mystery, if it happened.
3. Money. Depending on whom you talk to Fitzroy Football Club has anywhere between $60,000 and $300,000 in the bank. This included the proceeds of the FFC Social Club Ltd. The next financial report should shed further light on this. I'm strongly doubt whether having $60,000 as assets is enough to establish a VFL club. Nor do Fitzroy have satisfactory facilties. Brunswick St. would be ideal, but is it up to the level required?
4. Space in the competition. The VFA do not want anymore than 16 teams and preferably 14. If further alignments between AFL sides and VFL sides occur, space may be freed up...who knows.
5. The Fitzroy administration. Their emphasis at the moment is on the Fitzroy Reds and the establishment of an U-19 team, which will cost money. There may be another VFL alignment or possibly a stand-alone team in the VFL. I hope so, but there would have to be a lot of work and a lot of fundraising before a stand-alone team could operate. The licence fee for stand-alone teams per year is about $80,000 a year (from memory..so don't quote me) Again (from memory) a licence fee for an aligned team is about $30,000-35,000 per annum. I'd also predict that the cost to run a VFL team is likely to rise sharply in the next few years as well.
OK it was a big nutshell!
By the way "tiger of old" could you explain further your comments...
"North they were the ones who were very keen to see Fitzroy go"
What?!! Where did you get this from? North made an offer to merge and the Fitzroy board who had always said that their preferred option was to merge with a Melbourne based club and North was their first choice, agreed to do so. Both clubs....not just Fitzroy...... would have gone and a new club would have been formed.
"richmond was one of the sides who stopped that merge happening for good reason"
What good reason? The only reason that Richmond (along with other clubs) voted against the 'North Fitzroy Kangaroos' was because they were afraid that the new club would become a super-club. In other words their lack of support, for a merger which was sought by both the legally elected boards of both clubs and who had spent months hammering out the terms, was mean-spirited, short-sighted, and self-serving.
The recent Richmond decision to allow no vestige of 'Fitzroy' in the Coburg team as a condition of an alignment is one of the reasons many Roys supporters loathe Richmond. This was despite the fact that all the alignment was originally meant to be was somewhere to run Richmond's surplus players. Now the VFL has the farcical situation of the having the 'Werribee Tigers' and the 'Coburg Tigers' playing in the same competition.
The club operations (including financial operations) of the Fitzroy Football Club Ltd. and the Brisbane Bears were merged. There is no doubt about that! I have a copy of the actual Deed of Arrangement in my hands as I type this. By the terms of the Deed of Arrangement (signed and agreed to by the administrator of the Fitzroy Football Club) all Fitzroy's memorabilia held by the club in 1996 belongs to the Brisbane Lions. There is also the small matter of a debenture of approximately $800,000 held by Brisbane against the Fitzroy Football Club Ltd.. According to what I have been told the Fitzroy Football Club Ltd. have questioned the legal validity of that debenture, but have been advised that if they took it to court they would most likely lose. To my knowledge the debenture has not been settled.
What's to stop Fitzroy forming a stand-alone team in the VFL?
Possibly at least four things....
1. The AFL, who have a huge influence over the VFL. While the AFL appear not to own the FFC logo, they do own the trademark Lion logo, now worn by Brisbane and possibly the colour scheme. However in 1999 when Coburg wanted to wear the FFC jumper and use the Fitzroy name, colours etc., for some of their matches the AFL handballed the issue to Brisbane and basically said if it alright with Brisbane it was alright by the AFL. Brisbane agreed to allow Coburg to wear the old FFC jumper and use the name "Fitzroy".
2. Brisbane Lions. For two reasons.
a) the formation of Fitzroy might dilute their Victorian presence and support.
b) the debenture that Fitzroy owes them.
I would regard a) being unlikely. Brisbane allowed Coburg the right to wear the Fitzroy jumper and use the Fitzroy name in the VFL in 1999 and it would be hard to see why they should change their mind now. Having attended Coburg-Fitzroy matches and Lions matches the formation of Coburg-Fitzroy appeared to have little effect on the number of Lions supporters for Brisbane Victorian matches.
b) ? Also unlikely. Brisbane have yet to claim the debenture after six years, so why they should suddenly do so, would be a mystery, if it happened.
3. Money. Depending on whom you talk to Fitzroy Football Club has anywhere between $60,000 and $300,000 in the bank. This included the proceeds of the FFC Social Club Ltd. The next financial report should shed further light on this. I'm strongly doubt whether having $60,000 as assets is enough to establish a VFL club. Nor do Fitzroy have satisfactory facilties. Brunswick St. would be ideal, but is it up to the level required?
4. Space in the competition. The VFA do not want anymore than 16 teams and preferably 14. If further alignments between AFL sides and VFL sides occur, space may be freed up...who knows.
5. The Fitzroy administration. Their emphasis at the moment is on the Fitzroy Reds and the establishment of an U-19 team, which will cost money. There may be another VFL alignment or possibly a stand-alone team in the VFL. I hope so, but there would have to be a lot of work and a lot of fundraising before a stand-alone team could operate. The licence fee for stand-alone teams per year is about $80,000 a year (from memory..so don't quote me) Again (from memory) a licence fee for an aligned team is about $30,000-35,000 per annum. I'd also predict that the cost to run a VFL team is likely to rise sharply in the next few years as well.
OK it was a big nutshell!
By the way "tiger of old" could you explain further your comments...
"North they were the ones who were very keen to see Fitzroy go"
What?!! Where did you get this from? North made an offer to merge and the Fitzroy board who had always said that their preferred option was to merge with a Melbourne based club and North was their first choice, agreed to do so. Both clubs....not just Fitzroy...... would have gone and a new club would have been formed.
"richmond was one of the sides who stopped that merge happening for good reason"
What good reason? The only reason that Richmond (along with other clubs) voted against the 'North Fitzroy Kangaroos' was because they were afraid that the new club would become a super-club. In other words their lack of support, for a merger which was sought by both the legally elected boards of both clubs and who had spent months hammering out the terms, was mean-spirited, short-sighted, and self-serving.
The recent Richmond decision to allow no vestige of 'Fitzroy' in the Coburg team as a condition of an alignment is one of the reasons many Roys supporters loathe Richmond. This was despite the fact that all the alignment was originally meant to be was somewhere to run Richmond's surplus players. Now the VFL has the farcical situation of the having the 'Werribee Tigers' and the 'Coburg Tigers' playing in the same competition.
RoyLion,
The junior Fitzroy teams ( one of which run out of Clifton Hill ) are having trouble getting the old Fitzroy jumpers because they are just not making them any more.
Beverley Hills use the Bris. Lions jumper so I'm not sure what Fitzroy is going to do about that.
I think I'm still a shareholder with FFC P/L - is this jumper issue something that they should deal with ?
The junior Fitzroy teams ( one of which run out of Clifton Hill ) are having trouble getting the old Fitzroy jumpers because they are just not making them any more.
Beverley Hills use the Bris. Lions jumper so I'm not sure what Fitzroy is going to do about that.
I think I'm still a shareholder with FFC P/L - is this jumper issue something that they should deal with ?
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