Roast WHAT I WANT TO SEE FROM A WELL COACHED PORT SIDE THAT KEN HINKLEY HAS FAILED TO SHOW US

How will Janus twist this?


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Janus

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Ooh I like this game. Geelong are strong flag favourites, sitting top at 11-1.

Let's look at the 24 players they fielded in the 2014 finals series.

Caddy
Selwood
Duncan

Mackie
Hawkins
Enright
Bartel
Varcoe
Motlop
Stokes
Guthrie
Rivers
Taylor
Brown
Horlin-Smith
Kelly
Lonergan
Blicavs
Walker
Murdoch
McCarthy
Thurlow
Johnson
McIntosh

Just to help you out, I've gone ahead and bolded the players still on Geelong's list. All 6 of them.
Are you seriously comparing our list depth in 2014 to Geelong’s? How many of those players were premiership players?

How many Brownlow medalists have they traded for since then?

This is what I mean. Complete overrating of our list. Pick another side. Fremantle is a good one...they were making finals in 2014. How have they been going?
 

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El_Scorcho

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Are you seriously comparing our list depth in 2014 to Geelong’s? How many of those players were premiership players?

How many Brownlow medalists have they traded for since then?

This is what I mean. Complete overrating of our list. Pick another side. Fremantle is a good one...they were top in 2014. How have they been going?
Totally irrelevant.

Only 6/24 players from Geelong's finals sides in 2014 are still on their list.

Only 6 of the players from Geelong's game last week were on the list on 2014.

Their list depth in 2014 isn't relevant to their success in 2019. Just like ours isn't.
 

Steve Dore

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Wow. I can’t imagine we’d even be one of the teams with highest turnover in the past five offseasons. Thats half a career, of course there’s turnover!
According to the AFLPA the average career is six years. If a coach can't handle turning over a third of their list in five years they shouldn't be coaching in the AFL.
 

theDuckFarmer

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This is exactly what I mean. This board has a subjective view of what it takes to win a flag based on...what exactly, I don’t know. It sure isn’t reality, but some romantic notion of ‘the good old days’ when Port was dominant.
Janus lecturing on subjectivity - lol.

Stop changing the subject to suit yourself.

My statement was that Hinkley has achieved f*ck all since 2014, not what it takes to win a flag.

I'm pretty sure this is a fact unless you consider one losing EF appearance to be a good return on the substantial investment made in the football department over 5 years that has given him just about everything he wants.

Of course you do.
 

Enviable Tradition

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The argument he made was that changing 15 of our best 22 was too big of a list turnover over since the 2014 prelim for us to expect success at this point, that we need time to build this list.

Someone better go tell 11-1 Geelong, because they've turned over 16 of their best 22 in the same period. I'm sure they'll be disappointed to hear that success is out of their reach this year.
Lol. He even used Geelong as his example of stability.

Very naughty of you to use actual facts El Scorcho.

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Magus

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Are you seriously comparing our list depth in 2014 to Geelong’s? How many of those players were premiership players?

How many Brownlow medalists have they traded for since then?

This is what I mean. Complete overrating of our list. Pick another side. Fremantle is a good one...they were making finals in 2014. How have they been going?
We exist to be like Freo.
 

Janus

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Totally irrelevant.

Only 6/24 players from Geelong's finals sides in 2014 are still on their list.

Only 6 of the players from Geelong's game last week were on the list on 2014.

Their list depth in 2014 isn't relevant to their success in 2019. Just like ours isn't.
I’m not talking about 2019. I’m talking about the lack of success between 2015-2018.

Geelong delisted 7 players at the end of 2014. None of them were best 22. They also traded Varcoe for Clark (bust), Christensen for Stanley (best 22 and still on their list) and did a deal with Adelaide to get Cockatoo in the draft (still on their list).

In 2015, they finished below us in 10th. McIntosh and Rivers retired and Kelly, Stokes and Johnson weren’t offered new contracts. They brought in Dangerfield (best 22), Henderson (best 22) and Smith (best 22) as trades.

At the end of 2016, they brought in Tuohy (best 22) as an FA and drafted Parfitt (best 22) and Stewart (best 22).

At the end of 2017, they traded for Ablett (best 22) and drafted Kelly (best 22), Miers (best 22), Constable and Fogarty.

And all the while they had their premiership list as their base to build off of - guys like Mackie, Lonergan etc.

8 of their best 22 this year is trades and free agents. Dangerfield, Ablett, Tuohy, Stanley, Henderson, Smith, Dahlhaus, Rohan. That’s not to mention Scott Selwood who is still running around on their list as another FA.

They have been successful because they’ve used trades and FA to replace departing players with established talent that has already played 50 games. Which you can do when you’ve established yourself as a contender every year.

That’s what every club is trying to do - be a destination club with FA/trades so they can allow their kids to develop without pressure to perform, and then move on the older players when the kids are ready to step up.
 

Janus

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Janus lecturing on subjectivity - lol.

Stop changing the subject to suit yourself.

My statement was that Hinkley has achieved f*ck all since 2014, not what it takes to win a flag.

I'm pretty sure this is a fact unless you consider one losing EF appearance to be a good return on the substantial investment made in the football department over 5 years that has given him just about everything he wants.

Of course you do.
They are related. There is no achievement unless you are winning the flag. You’re either winning it or you’re building towards winning it. That’s it. No one cares who came second.
 

Janus

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I'd love to know how many times you've replied to posters with this exact answer. Constantly shifting the goal posts is not having a solid argument.
I’m not shifting the goal posts. Making finals is not a ******* achievement. Who the **** cares if you make it if you’re never going to win the thing??
 

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Pappagallo

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I’m not shifting the goal posts. Making finals is not a ******* achievement. Who the **** cares if you make it if you’re never going to win the thing??
You need to make finals to have a chance though and once you have that anything is possible. If you think you’re not gonna win it all then you’re probably right but if you believe you can be for we are what we think wink wink.
 

theDuckFarmer

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There is no achievement unless you are winning the flag. You’re either winning it or you’re building towards winning it. That’s it. No one cares who came second.
Yeah. I can't understand why opposition supporters hang sh1t on us for 119 either.
 

Magus

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You need to make finals to have a chance though and once you have that anything is possible. If you think you’re not gonna win it all then you’re probably right but if you believe you can be for we are what we think wink wink.
Plus playing in and winning finals is invaluable experience, even if you don't make it the whole way. It definitely sets you up for years to come. Not us though, we tore the whole thing down.
 

Janus

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You need to make finals to have a chance though and once you have that anything is possible. If you think you’re not gonna win it all then you’re probably right but if you believe you can be for we are what we think wink wink.
There’s a difference between viewing finals as success and viewing them as an opportunity to achieve success.
 

theDuckFarmer

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Plus playing in and winning finals is invaluable experience, even if you don't make it the whole way. It definitely sets you up for years to come. Not us though, we tore the whole thing down.
Nah, mate. Not sure why Carlton supporters are so unhappy. They're just as good as Geelong in recent years. It's only winning a flag that counts. Seventeen coaches are looking over their shoulder.
 

Us against the rest

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Well even giving ourselves an opportunity to make finals so we have a chance of participating in a GF, seems to be a massive task under Hinkley. 11 - 4 and still miss out.
Sounds to me like Ken is safe as houses because idiots like Koch want him to be a 10 year coach, in other words you have 10 years Ken, as long as we see a top 4 fininish in that time all is good.
 
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Us against the rest

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I get what Janus is saying and he's right to a degree. To win the flag be it a one off like the Bulldogs, all your little ducks have to be lined up properly, our trouble is we have one ugly duckling and that is Hinkley.
We can't expect to win a flag, with sub standard skills that only stand up against weak opposition. Every thing has to be right and every one buying in and on the same page.
Making finals is not what Port used to be about, it was achieving the ultimate prize but you have to make finals first.
 

TeeKray

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We exist to be like Freo.
If only we were.

Freo came off a sustained period of contending for the premiership - something we haven't done since the early 2000s - and have rebuilt their team much more extensively than we have. And they've done it in three years to the point where they beat Collingwood at the 'G last time out and are on track to play finals this year.

We're tracking well behind Freo, and that will be on display this weekend.
 

Magus

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There’s a difference between viewing finals as success and viewing them as an opportunity to achieve success.
There's a difference between viewing finals as a success and seeing that making finals and winning finals regularly is a sign of consistency and giving yourself the best opportunity year after year.

If Hinkley had gotten this team playing finals more often than not and won a couple, I think you'd find that many people (myself included) would have some faith that he has what it takes to keep us moving forward. Unfortunately it's the opposite but here you are trying to argue that consistently missing out completely isn't relevant to our progress at all.

I guarantee that if Buckley's team was having another down year the way Melbourne are, the blowtorch would be back on him and that's the way it should be.
 
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I really don't want to rant about it anymore because people don't want to hear it which is fine, but our managed expectations and "mediocrity" has nothing to do with Ken or Koch, it's the expectation that has been forced on us ever since we were forced to come into the AFL second due to all the crap that happened in 1990.
Just look at Adelaide and how easily they've gotten rid of mediocre coaches, I'd bet Don Pyke would be sacked if he missed the eight this year. And all of this because their supporters have such a low tolerance threshold.
This is the biggest conflict our club faces, whilst we are treated from outsiders as a secondary club, we are NOT, and our supporter base knows this, but the AFL does not. So long as we make enough money from games the AFL and SANFL are happy campers, but our supporters will not be happy until we get the result ur club deserves.
Our early years were an exception because our AFL debut was followed by a faithful campaign to get us going, along with some of the best AFL players of the decade.

Anyway I know this is the tactical thread but since we were talking about club expectations I thought I would add something.
 

Us against the rest

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I really don't want to rant about it anymore because people don't want to hear it which is fine, but our managed expectations and "mediocrity" has nothing to do with Ken or Koch, it's the expectation that has been forced on us ever since we were forced to come into the AFL second due to all the crap that happened in 1990.
Just look at Adelaide and how easily they've gotten rid of mediocre coaches, I'd bet Don Pyke would be sacked if he missed the eight this year. And all of this because their supporters have such a low tolerance threshold.
This is the biggest conflict our club faces, whilst we are treated from outsiders as a secondary club, we are NOT, and our supporter base knows this, but the AFL does not. So long as we make enough money from games the AFL and SANFL are happy campers, but our supporters will not be happy until we get the result ur club deserves.
Our early years were an exception because our AFL debut was followed by a faithful campaign to get us going, along with some of the best AFL players of the decade.

Anyway I know this is the tactical thread but since we were talking about club expectations I thought I would add something.
hgfds.jpg
 
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I'm just saying with or without Ken our club expectations from an outside perspective or an AFL perspective will remain the same.
We have to work hard against the odds to accomplish a premiership, because we are not the AFL's priority, money is.
If we were we would've came into the AFL in 1991 like we should have, and we wouldn't of needed a Malcolm Blight to ******* gift us two premierships, we could've gotten that and more on our own.
 

Magus

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I'm just saying with or without Ken our club expectations from an outside perspective or an AFL perspective will remain the same.
We have to work hard against the odds to accomplish a premiership, because we are not the AFL's priority, money is.
If we were we would've came into the AFL in 1991 like we should have, and we wouldn't of needed a Malcolm Blight to ******* gift us two premierships, we could've gotten that and more on our own.
Irrelevant excuses. Port hasn't been anyone's priority ever.
 
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