What if history scenarios

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little graham

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Some make that choice more than others.........

You don't have to be a complete classless campaigner about it.

I never said they were never planning to in 1943, but by mounting a smaller invasion, as German archival evidence proves, the Germans believed that the landings were a feint right up to the afternoon on June 6. They believed that Calias was the main target still, delaying most of the panzer divisions in Northern France by a good day, despite Panzer Lehr Division being ready to move out against the Allies moving inland. Hitler's interference with German high command was also a main factor behind their delay. If the allies invaded Normandy in 1943, they would have had it a lot easier in terms of defences, but Rommel's appointment led to the defences in Normandy by mid 1944 being bolstered through the Todt organisation and other labour detachments.


The small scale of the landings in 1944 were to minimalise causalities to a degree, but also to tie down the large German reserves in France that could have been devoted to the Italian and Eastern Fronts. Also by 1943, the Allies hadn't fully worn down the Luftwaffe, which the Allies concentrated on from mid 1943 to 1944, which helped the 1944 landings immensely.


If the Western Allies used 270 divisions in 1943 they would have won out in the end, because the state of the defences in Normandy, but they may have suffered similiar to higher causalities to the 1944 campaign, due to increased German air and panzer reserves as well as their control of the ports.

The 1944 landings and their smaller scale weren't about simply bleeding the Russians (they did that with Berlin in 1945 however and a few other situations/battles from 1944-45), but to tie down badly needed German reserves that were needed on the Eastern and Italian Fronts, minimalising causalities and taking full advantage of their aerial and naval power, which they did to great effect.

Being a classless campaigner is a choice.
That must of hurt.
 

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JoseMourinho

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Demonstrates facts, gets called ignorant, bigfooty in a nutshell.
They're not facts if they disagree with the narrative that I am trying to build.

What if I became king of the world? Please be advised that somehow my family which hails from Britain which beat the US and then conquered Europe/The World became the royal family. :p
 

Kangaroos4eva

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They're not facts if they disagree with the narrative that I am trying to build.

What if I became king of the world? Please be advised that somehow my family which hails from Britain which beat the US and then conquered Europe/The World became the royal family. :p
Are you lost Jose?;)
 

Kangaroos4eva

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What if he'd been killed on the Western Front.

The Nazi party wasn't just Hitler though, and movements like the Freikorps sprung up post WWI anyway.
Plus the Great Depression was a massive boom to the Nazi Party, without it, they would not have got the votes to pressure Hindenburg by the start of 1933 to make Hitler chancellor.
 

Kangaroos4eva

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It's just the first time I have seen you on the history board, thought that might be just me.

As for your question, if you're king, you'll appoint yourself manager of Chelsea, Cookson as Man U manager and Teach as the Spur's manager and institute the changing of the flag to something purple and boring, is that sufficient?
 

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Hank Scorpion

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What if the French hadn't sold of Louisiana and withdrawn from North America. What would the United States look like?
(my knowledge is limited, but it's fun to speculate)

- The U.S. would have probably been a lot more aggressive at expanding into British holdings in Canada (War of 1812 may have continued longer.) France and the U.S. have always been on good terms, so there'd be no urge from the Americans to expand westward.

- The territory sold off during the Louisiana purchase probably would have been a lot worse off. French conflicts throughout the 19th century would have been funded off the riches of the new world, whereas the U.S. could invest properly in its territories. If the U.S. were to eventually claim the Louisiana territory, there probably would have been a far wider socioeconomic divide.

- It would depend how long the Louisiana territory was French-held, but the longer it was, the more likely it would form an independent nation(s), rather than join the U.S. as we know it. Differences in language, culture, religion, socioeconomic statues grow starker as time passes = less likely to join the U.S.

- Mexico would own Texas, and consequently be a lot wealthier. France probably wouldn't have attacked it and the U.S. couldn't without a land border.

- The Pacific coast would be unrecognisable. I'm not very familiar with the history of anything further West than the Rockies, but the U.S. couldn't expand into it. Mexico perhaps expand up there, or an independent nation of Spanish-speakers forms?



> Overall, the English-speaking U.S. would be a lot smaller. The continent would be a lot more divided, which would have dramatic effect on any event beyond the 19th century.
 

Kangaroos4eva

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What if Rommel was able to take Tobruk and push past the Suez in 1941 and Germany not invade the Soviet Union in June 1941 and instead pour resources into North Africa and the Middle East?
 

GreyCrow

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What if Rommel was able to take Tobruk and push past the Suez in 1941 and Germany not invade the Soviet Union in June 1941 and instead pour resources into North Africa and the Middle East?
How much of a prize was North Africa? As a conduit to the ME maybe. Would have controlled the Med as well hmm The Allies would not have gone through Italy. The Normandy Landings would have been easier to predict. Interesting
 

Happy Mastenator

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Wouldn't have helped long term. Only way Germans could have 'won' was to force England to either surrender or sue for peace. Russia was always going to roll up on them while the western front was open, and the states would only get involved while England were fighting.
 

emuboy

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In 1912, what if the lookouts/bridge crew of the Titanic had sighted the iceberg in time, and taken the correct evasive action?

In Russia during the mid 1920s, what if Leon Trotsky had emerged triumphant over Joseph Stalin in the bitter battle for leadership between the two men following the death of Lenin?

In England in 1936, what if Edward VIII had reluctantly chosen the crown over love, bade goodbye to Wallis Simpson and assumed the throne? Who would be the British monarch today?

What if Joseph Kennedy JNR (older brother of John, Robert and Edward) had survived the Second World War? Would Joe Jnr have become the president that Jack Kennedy became in 1960?

In Liverpool in 1962, what if John Lennon, Paul McCarthy, George Harrison and Brian Epstein decided that it was too great a risk to mess with the line-up of the Beatles when the band was on verge of making it big, and retained Pete Best as drummer?

What if the team from CREEP had done a better job at breaking into the Watergate Building in Washington DC in 1972, evading detection?

In the Gulf War of early 1991, what if America had continued the conflict and removed Saddam Hussein from power at this time?

In the 2000 US Presidential Election, what if the Supreme Court had ruled in favour of Al Gore, handing him the presidency over George W Bush Jnr?
 

suspect footskills

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What if Rommel was able to take Tobruk and push past the Suez in 1941 and Germany not invade the Soviet Union in June 1941 and instead pour resources into North Africa and the Middle East?
I often wonder about that one, seeing as oil shortage was a major factor in the German defeat. Can't help but think that regardless, Hitler's meddling would have screwed any chance Germany had.

I wonder what would have occurred had the western allies been allowed passage through Scandinavian territory to defend Finland from the Soviets.
 

Kangaroos4eva

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I often wonder about that one, seeing as oil shortage was a major factor in the German defeat. Can't help but think that regardless, Hitler's meddling would have screwed any chance Germany had.

I wonder what would have occurred had the western allies been allowed passage through Scandinavian territory to defend Finland from the Soviets.
In 1939/40 Winter War? Then Finland probably wouldn't have fallen into the German sphere of influence and renew their campaign in 1941 against the soviets.

Another question is whether the Germans took Leningrad, would Moscow have fallen the next year with a sweeping move from the North by Army Group North.
 

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