What if it was our club?

[Tyler from Sth Fremantle]

Hey troll!

Of course you'd reply in such a way, instead of being thankful for being directed towards a much more insightful and higher quality article, on a topic you appear to care about.

Classic ignorance.

 

[WaywardSonSon]

Of course you'd reply in such a way, instead of being thankful for being directed towards a much more insightful and higher quality article, on a topic you appear to care about.

Classic ignorance.

I've already read the article you're referring to, genius.

 

[Tyler from Sth Fremantle]

I've already read the article you're referring to, genius.

Yet prefer to discuss the junk article which only vaguely touches on a few of the issues, instead of the one that really does meaningfully discuss the alleged incidents. But then again, your response to the article you posted was comparable to the article itself. Genius.

 

[WaywardSonSon]

Yet prefer to discuss the junk article which only vaguely touches on a few of the issues, instead of the one that really does meaningfully discuss the alleged incidents. But then again, your response to the article you posted was comparable to the article itself. Genius.

Perhaps you should read the more than half-dozen responses I've posted in the thread relating to the original article, that can be easily accessed via the main board. Did I discuss the "junk" article, Tyler? Or did I simply post a link to said article within this thread? Your responses to nigh-on every post made on this board are comparable to that of twelve year old, that's elected to create a troll account in the pursuit of agitating those that wish to participate in wholesome, discerning discussion. Oh wait, that's what you're actually doing. Sorry, I forgot who I was speaking to for a moment.

 

[WaywardSonSon]

I would stop following AFL and find something else to do. I'm on the brink anyway though. Nothing to do with the club, more to do with the competition as a whole.

Me too man, me too. Once you realise that it's very much not an even playing field, and, as Snuff would say, "You're beginning at first base, whilst others commence at second" you begin to consider the very real prospect of your team never winning a premiership in your lifetime.

 

[Tyler from Sth Fremantle]

Perhaps you should read the more than half-dozen responses I've posted in the thread relating to the original article, that can be easily accessed via the main board.

Not interested in the issue enough to be honest, and certainly without the full facts to the story.

Did I discuss the "junk" article, Tyler? Or did I simply post a link to said article within this thread?

You made commentary which can only be interpreted as in reference to the article. But I actually agree it was of no importance.

Your responses to nigh-on every post made on this board are comparable to that of twelve year old, that's elected to create a troll account in the pursuit of agitating those that wish to participate in wholesome, discerning discussion.

Not sure what this has to do with the topic of this thread, but I'll indulge.

That's not the case at all, as evidenced by my initial posts in this thread, and also suggestion to consume the original ABC article. It's just that cliquey, insular snowflakes like you feel it's ok to call someone a troll because someone speaks directly and in a way that challenges your sheltered and fragile sensibilities.

If you sincerely wanted to participate in a wholesome discerning discussion, you sure as * wouldn't straight up call someone a troll when they inform you of more informative information sources, and then double down with more crap, like this particular quote.

You responded as you did because of your personal insecurities, and nothing more. You and others find it confronting thst someone speaks directly, I get it, but it's on you to get over that, not on me to change a reasonable and non abusive communication style.

Oh wait, that's what you're actually doing. Sorry, I forgot who I was speaking to for a moment.

Yeah, totally.

Thanks for your meaningful input. Now if you're done calling people trolls, and want to stick to the topic being discussed, we can do that and you can revert to calling everyone racists instead.

 

[WaywardSonSon]

Not interested in the issue enough to be honest, and certainly without the full facts to the story.



You made commentary which can only be interpreted as in reference to the article. But I actually agree it was of no importance.


Not sure what this has to do with the topic of this thread, but I'll indulge.

That's not the case at all, as evidenced by my initial posts in this thread, and also suggestion to consume the original ABC article. It's just that cliquey, insular snowflakes like you feel it's ok to call someone a troll because someone speaks directly and in a way that challenges your sheltered and fragile sensibilities.

If you sincerely wanted to participate in a wholesome discerning discussion, you sure as * wouldn't straight up call someone a troll when they inform you of more informative information sources, and then double down with more crap, like this particular quote.

You responded as you did because of your personal insecurities, and nothing more. You and others find it confronting thst someone speaks directly, I get it, but it's on you to get over that, not on me to change a reasonable and non abusive communication style.


Yeah, totally.

Thanks for your meaningful input. Now if you're done calling people trolls, and want to stick to the topic being discussed, we can do that and you can revert to calling everyone racists instead.

Ta ta Tyler, you've just been added to my ignore list along with the likes of DanWA and NumeroUno. Esteemed company indeed! Lol

 

[Tyler from Sth Fremantle]

For those interested in consuming non junk media, and who haven't read the article:

Family separations and pregnancy termination: Hawthorn racism review reveals shock allegations against former coaches

Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan are named in a Hawthorn review into how First Nations players were treated during Clarkson's time at the helm of the Hawks. Warning — this story contains details of self-harm, pregnancy loss, and intergenerational trauma for Indigenous people.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Descent]

For those interested in consuming non junk media, and who haven't read the article:

Family separations and pregnancy termination: Hawthorn racism review reveals shock allegations against former coaches

Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan are named in a Hawthorn review into how First Nations players were treated during Clarkson's time at the helm of the Hawks. Warning — this story contains details of self-harm, pregnancy loss, and intergenerational trauma for Indigenous people.

www.abc.net.au

Yes, we all read it days ago. Why are you so belligerent?

 

[Tyler from Sth Fremantle]

Yes, we all read it days ago.

Did we all?

Why are you so belligerent?

Where am I being belligerent? What could I possibly be belligerent for?

Discuss the topic, if you want to discuss me personally, take it to PM.

 

[Descent]

Did we all?

Yes.

 

[dominguez]

I've been pondering this for a while and rather than post it in the Hawks thread - for fear that it might be seen as an attempt to troll.

I have been a Penn State football fan ever since I went to college over 20 years ago. After the Joe Paterno case broke - I was living in the US and many people would ask "How can you continue to follow/support that team/organisation after the attrocities that happened there?

I wonder how Hawthorn supporters are feeling at the moment and wonder how many would question whether or not they might be ashamed or feel that they might change who the follow because of recent events (if found to be true).

I'm curious as a passionate Freo fan and as a club with a rich indigenous heritage/culture and the fact that we are a relatively new club. If it came to fruition that our club was found to have done something similar - Would you consider disowning Freo?

I personally am not sure - I guess I'd consider taking a break from the sport and club and see what actions the club did as a result of situation.

Thoughts?

IF Clarkson and Co get proven guilty, and it's a big if...most of those people, if not all, have departed the club.

If it came out that during the Shwabbolly era indigenous players were poorly treated by the club it would have no impact on my love for FFC.

 

[dominguez]

That being said, the Ross Lyon coup was pretty ugly the way it played out, and I've said many times - sport is a ruthless industry and business.

IMO that's the most positive chapter in our clubs history. Up until that point our club was irrelevant. We were playing checkers and the other clubs were playing chess.

 

[dominguez]

Would have no impact on my following the club, whatsoever.

I'm sure it will turn out that whatever has or hasn't happened at the Hawks is not a persecution of Indigenous players because they're Indigenous. It might turn out that some lines were crossed (as happens in any group at times), and it involved Indigenous players, perhaps amongst others, or not, but that is very different than racial vilification.

From memoey Cyril had some issues with Kennet relating to something with his wife and it's probably connected to that. Wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be Kennet saying some edgy Kennet things or Clarkson being the angry Smurf he is and saying something about player's getting their partners pregnant during the preseason and miasing finals. Mundane s**t like that.

Would be very surprised if it's not anything more than a storm in a teacup.

Would be surprised if it's anything more than some careless words and a few snowflakes taking it personally.

Telling an Indigenous player that a baby is an unnecessary distraction and that his partner should get an abortion is pretty severe if proven to be correct. I'm pretty sure Mundy didn't run it by RTB when Mrs Mundy was trying for a baby.

From memory the allegation was that Cyril's partner was wearing trendy ripped jeans and Kennett said here's $5, buy some proper clothes. That's not necessarily racist and it could be spun as an old guy trying to be funny. But I could see how it could also be seen as derogatory and condescending.

The world has changed a lot since Clarkson and Kennett entered the work force. In the 80's if you pinched a co-workers bum it would have been laughed off. Now it's a big deal if you get someone's pronouns wrong.

 

[Tyler from Sth Fremantle]

Yes

Congratulations on your election to the position as the sole mouthpiece and spokesperson for the board. Excuse my skepticism with regards to the legitimacy of the election. I post the link for the minorities you don't deign to aknowledge or represent.

I do note that you were unable to answer the subsequent questions, either here, or in private.

 

[Tyler from Sth Fremantle]

Telling an Indigenous player that a baby is an unnecessary distraction and that his partner should get an abortion is pretty severe if proven to be correct. I'm pretty sure Mundy didn't run it by RTB when Mrs Mundy was trying for a baby.

I agree, and arguably it crosses some sort of line, moral or ethical. Whether or not that is racist though, is another discussion entirely, as I don't doubt the conversation was had due to other influencing factors, not the players race.

Clarko's stance regarding his players/partners and childbirth during the season is well known. I believe he stood for this with both non Indigenous and Indigenous players equally, in which case, it's not a racism issue, so why is it being treated as such?

From memory the allegation was that Cyril's partner was wearing trendy ripped jeans and Kennett said here's $5, buy some proper clothes. That's not necessarily racist and it could be spun as an old guy trying to be funny. But I could see how it could also be seen as derogatory and condescending.

Again, I agree. Lame comment. But racist, I doubt. Condescending and insensitive, perhaps. Depends on the people on the receiving end, and may not have been Kennet's intention anyway.

Probably was intended as a bit of banter, but aimed at the wrong audience.

A problem I have with this is, if hypothetically he choses not to make the joke because of the person's race/sex, it's arguably sexism/racism by definition of treating someone differently because of those factors.

The world has changed a lot since Clarkson and Kennett entered the work force. In the 80's if you pinched a co-workers bum it would have been laughed off. Now it's a big deal if you get someone's pronouns wrong.

And I don't think that's a good thing. Equal and equality are losing their meaning.

We're clearly redifining what is and isn't acceptable these days in so many facets of society and currently society is overcorrecting at times. Some of that is well intentioned, some of it is disingenuous and insidious, and needs to be railed against.

There can be no compromise on Truth, no matter how many people's feelings are hurt by it. It must be fought for till the end.

Wouldn't you agree Snuffaluphagus ?

 

[Descent]

Congratulations on your election to the position as the sole mouthpiece and spokesperson for the board. Excuse my skepticism with regards to the legitimacy of the election. I post the link for the minorities you don't deign to aknowledge or represent.

I do note that you were unable to answer the subsequent questions, either here, or in private.

The Fairfax article you so loathe was posted by someone who has been active in these discussions (here and elsewhere) from the start, equipped with the facts as outlined in the ABC article. You clearly demonstrated with your first post here that you had not read the ABC article yet. You seem to be that ignorant minority, yet you insist on labeling EVERYONE else as ignorant. This is something, as David Hume shudders in his grave, that “needs to be railed against”.

Your is/ought fallacy requires a justification.

P.S. You’re asking the wrong questions. I’m not going to DM you.

 

[basashi]

Two scenarios if its us:

1) If fans, execs and board are 80- 90 % outraged and make real change to admit it and fix it, then yes I am on board.

2) If fans, execs and board behave like the Essendon community did when they were caught with the drug cheating then I am out.

 

[se17enteen]

Remember when Fagan flew over to WA and stayed with Neale during the whole of trade week to make sure Neale doesn’t change his mind. Not weird or controlling at all. Major red flags right there.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Could well be Freo's future.

I mean, what could possibly go wrong with bringing in a bunch of activists with an axe to grind to audit our club like Hawthorn did?

If you want to see evidence of racism, if your whole career revolves around conflict between Indigenous and white Australians, then you will find it, your job depends on it.

Fremantle FC is 27 years and it has had scores of aboriginal players pass through its doors. If you think that among all those players and their partners and their families that there would not be one instance of a real or imagined sleight, a clumsy joke misconstrued or even a case or two of flat out bigotry?

Lets be real here, for every Indigenous player with a bad story to tell there are dozens that owe the game their successful lives. They have achieved wealth and fame and the clubs bend over backwards to accomodate them. No demographic in the AFL is coddled like the indigenous demographic is coddled.

We are going down the American path and tearing ourselves apart over this race issue.

What unites us is far greater than what divides us.

I think you have very little understanding of what many Aboriginal people have been through.