Portfolio What if the VFL, WAFL and SANFL merged in 1983?

[Fizzler]

For jumper clashes, the away team will wear their secondary colour aka an away jumper

I never actually got to mention it, but the away team in jumper clashes would wear a white jumper like this from the original instalment of this portfolio that I never finished.

Portfolio - 1983 Alternate History

Norwood As SANFL Premiers, Norwood get a place in the first division. (Not doing full presentation because I can't make the logos) I had to make the AGC logo myself because there was none online. Does anyone know what they did or if they still exist?

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Coolangatta]

AJMLaird check this thread out, it's a "what if" merger of the WAFL/SANFL/VFL leagues + some other clubs split into three divisions. Got your Panthers in there and my Swannies (Districts).

Would have been amazing but the cost of air travel I guess would've been insane then, let alone now.

The list:

Division 1

Carlton Blues (VIC)
Central District Bulldogs (SA)
Claremont Tigers (WA)
Essendon Bombers (VIC)
Glenelg Tigers (SA)
Hawthorn Hawks (VIC)
Norwood Redlegs (SA)
Port Adelaide Magpies (SA)
Richmond Tigers (VIC)
Sturt Double Blues (SA)
Swan Districts Swans (WA)
West Perth Falcons (WA)

Division 2

East Fremantle Old Easts (WA)
East Perth Royals (WA)
Fitzroy Lions (VIC)
Geelong Cats (VIC)
Melbourne Demons (VIC)
North Adelaide Roosters (SA)
North Melbourne Kangaroos (VIC)
South Fremantle Bulldogs (WA)
Sydney Swans (NSW)
West Adelaide Bloods (SA)
Tasmania Titans (TAS)
Port Melbourne Borough (VIC)

Division 3

Collingwood Magpies (VIC)
Footscray Bulldogs (VIC)
Perth Demons (WA)
South Adelaide Panthers (SA)
St Kilda Saints (VIC)
Subiaco Lions (WA)
West Torrens Eagles (SA)
Woodville Warriors (SA)
Brisbane Rockets (QLD)
Southport Sharks (QLD)
Geelong West Roosters (VIC)
Northern Bulls (VIC)

 

[Tigerlaird]

AJMLaird check this thread out, it's a "what if" merger of the WAFL/SANFL/VFL leagues + some other clubs split into three divisions. Got your Panthers in there and my Swannies (Districts).

Would have been amazing but the cost of air travel I guess would've been insane then, let alone now.

The list:

Division 1

Carlton Blues (VIC)
Central District Bulldogs (SA)
Claremont Tigers (WA)
Essendon Bombers (VIC)
Glenelg Tigers (SA)
Hawthorn Hawks (VIC)
Norwood Redlegs (SA)
Port Adelaide Magpies (SA)
Richmond Tigers (VIC)
Sturt Double Blues (SA)
Swan Districts Swans (WA)
West Perth Falcons (WA)

Division 2

East Fremantle Old Easts (WA)
East Perth Royals (WA)
Fitzroy Lions (VIC)
Geelong Cats (VIC)
Melbourne Demons (VIC)
North Adelaide Roosters (SA)
North Melbourne Kangaroos (VIC)
South Fremantle Bulldogs (WA)
Sydney Swans (NSW)
West Adelaide Bloods (SA)
Tasmania Titans (TAS)
Port Melbourne Borough (VIC)

Division 3

Collingwood Magpies (VIC)
Footscray Bulldogs (VIC)
Perth Demons (WA)
South Adelaide Panthers (SA)
St Kilda Saints (VIC)
Subiaco Lions (WA)
West Torrens Eagles (SA)
Woodville Warriors (SA)
Brisbane Rockets (QLD)
Southport Sharks (QLD)
Geelong West Roosters (VIC)
Northern Bulls (VIC)

Yes this would have been amazing, but the cost of air travel would indeed be too much, and the system too different from the usual V/AFL system that people are used to.

Would be easier if the conferences were based in the states, with cross-conference matches being the only big air cost.

 

[Coolangatta]

Yes this would have been amazing, but the cost of air travel would indeed be too much, and the system too different from the usual V/AFL system that people are used to.

Would be easier if the conferences were based in the states, with cross-conference matches being the only big air cost.

Yeah, maybe something like having a merger/national contract but keeping the WAFL, SANFL, and VFL. At the time there was the QAFL, ACTAFL, and TANFL.

They could've set up:

1. A mega media rights deal, broadcasting all leagues, shared between pay TV, channel 7, channel 9, and channel 10, maybe ABC has the lowest costing league.

2. Salary cap and a club funding model similar to what we have now.

All leagues play 22 games so no team is fresher than the others. Everyone gets a week off after state GFs.

AFL knockout tournament, rotate the GF host. Rank in order of host/league quality, all games at hosts state to reduce air travel costs.

EF1: QAFL champ v ACTAFL champ
EF2: TSL champ v WAFL or SANFL champ (whatever team had worse record)
QF1: VFL champ (host) v WAFL/SANFL champ
SF1: Loser QF1 v Winner EF1
SF2: Winner QF1 v Winner EF2
PF: Loser SF2 v Winner SF1
GF: Winner SF2 v Winner PF

If it were 1983:

EF1: Southport v Ainslie
EF2: Glenorchy v Swan Districts
QF1: Hawthorn v West Adelaide
etc

 

[terrybull]

Yeah, maybe something like having a merger/national contract but keeping the WAFL, SANFL, and VFL. At the time there was the QAFL, ACTAFL, and TANFL.

They could've set up:

1. A mega media rights deal, broadcasting all leagues, shared between pay TV, channel 7, channel 9, and channel 10, maybe ABC has the lowest costing league.

2. Salary cap and a club funding model similar to what we have now.

All leagues play 22 games so no team is fresher than the others. Everyone gets a week off after state GFs.

AFL knockout tournament, rotate the GF host. Rank in order of host/league quality, all games at hosts state to reduce air travel costs.

EF1: QAFL champ v ACTAFL champ
EF2: TSL champ v WAFL or SANFL champ (whatever team had worse record)
QF1: VFL champ (host) v WAFL/SANFL champ
SF1: Loser QF1 v Winner EF1
SF2: Winner QF1 v Winner EF2
PF: Loser SF2 v Winner SF1
GF: Winner SF2 v Winner PF

If it were 1983:

EF1: Southport v Ainslie
EF2: Glenorchy v Swan Districts
QF1: Hawthorn v West Adelaide
etc

So winner of QF1 meet an harder opponent (probably a WAFL or SANFL team).

While the loser of the QF1 meet either a QLD or ACT team?

Tanking bonanza!

 

[Coolangatta]

So winner of QF1 meet an harder opponent (probably a WAFL or SANFL team).

While the loser of the QF1 meet either a QLD or ACT team?

Tanking bonanza!

I based it off the McIntyre six, but yes, that would be too easy for the QF1 loser.

Maybe McIntyre five with a playoff between the two weakest teams to qualify for fifth.

So hypothetically in a Melbourne hosted 83 comp.

EF: Glenorchy/Ainslie v Southport
QF: West Adelaide v Swan Districts
SF1: Hawthorn v QF winner
SF2: QF loser v EF winner
PF: SF1 loser v SF2 winner
GF: SF1 winner v PF winner

 

[terrybull]

I based it off the McIntyre six, but yes, that would be too easy for the QF1 loser.

Maybe McIntyre five with a playoff between the two weakest teams to qualify for fifth.

So hypothetically in a Melbourne hosted 83 comp.

EF: Glenorchy/Ainslie v Southport
QF: West Adelaide v Swan Districts
SF1: Hawthorn v QF winner
SF2: QF loser v EF winner
PF: SF1 loser v SF2 winner
GF: SF1 winner v PF winner

The Final 6 was nearly as bad as the old final four system of 1v3 and 2v4.

There is probably a better system that you suggested and when someone does, it’s aaaah simple, should have thought of that! Just like today’s Final 8

 

[Coolangatta]

Bump.

I think it could have worked as a conference system, NFL style, starting off with 30 teams in 1983, divided into 6 conferences of 5 teams which is what the NFL set up was when it was at 30 teams.

Conference A: 5 Victorian clubs
Conference B: 5 Victorian clubs
Conference C: 5 SANFL clubs
Conference D: 5 SANFL clubs
Conference E: 4 WAFL clubs + Brisbane Lions (as a Fitzroy relocation rather than merger)
Conference F: 4 WAFL clubs + Sydney Swans

1990: Woodville and West-Torrens merge, AFL at 29 teams. Hobart, Launceston, Canberra, Gold Coast and Peel join in the 90s, taking AFL to 34 teams.

Conference A: 4 Victorian clubs
Conference B: 4 Victorian clubs
Conference C: 2 Victorian clubs + Hobart and Launceston
Conference D: 5 SANFL clubs
Conference E: 4 SANFL clubs
Conference F: 5 WAFL clubs
Conference G: 4 WAFL clubs
Conference H: Sydney, Brisbane, Gold Coast, Canberra

NT and GWS join in 2010s, taking AFL to 36 teams.

Conference A: 4 Victorian clubs
Conference B: 4 Victorian clubs
Conference C: 2 Victorian clubs + Hobart and Launceston
Conference D: 5 SANFL clubs
Conference E: 4 SANFL clubs + NT
Conference F: 5 WAFL clubs
Conference G: 4 WAFL clubs
Conference H: Sydney, Brisbane, Gold Coast, Canberra, GWS

Edit: The Victorian and Northern conferences would've been the North-East division side of the draw, with the WA/SA side being the South-West side division side, with each division having four conferences winners and three wildcards each qualify for finals.

 

[Zoops]

I'll bump this too, purely to remind everyone how awesome this portfolio was!

 

[sdfc]

The Final 6 was nearly as bad as the old final four system of 1v3 and 2v4.

There is probably a better system that you suggested and when someone does, it’s aaaah simple, should have thought of that! Just like today’s Final 8

The old final four system is 1v2, 3v4, prelim, GF. Great system.

 

[terrybull]

The old final four system is 1v2, 3v4, prelim, GF. Great system.

Yep
Final 5 was better

But the first Final 4 was a disaster.

It was better to finish 4th then 3rd as one avoided the top team in fourth.

 

[Coolangatta]

I don't think I would've had 36 teams from the get go in 1983. Sure, have Brisbane, Southport, two Tassie teams from Hobart and Launceston (new franchises) join from the beginning, making it 34 teams, but I wouldn't feel compelled to fill it with more Victorian teams, at least not right off the bat; #VICBIAS hahaha. Alternatively, if 36 teams was wanted from the get go, I'd have probably added Brisbane, Southport, Hobart, Launceston, Canberra, and Ballarat.

But yeah, if you wanted to keep it to 36 teams, there'd had to have been some mergers and/or relocations at some point. Peel would've come in during the 90s; maybe a Woodville-West Torrens merger still happens in this timeline to keep it to 36.

I think instead of forcing more mergers/relocations though I'd have been looking at forming a NEAFL comp around 2010 when it actually started. Start off with 3 Sydney teams, 2 Brisbane teams, a Gold Coast team, and NT. Later on, add Newcastle, Sunshine Coast, Cairns, Illawarra, and finally NZ. 12 teams and eventually it becomes a division four, possibly within just a few years of its inception.

Anyway, Fizzler work is amazing in any case, just sharing my thoughts on an alternate way the comp could've gone.

 

[dino_67]

forgive my ignorance but is this basically a division relegation system akin to the EPL?

 

[Coolangatta]

forgive my ignorance but is this basically a division relegation system akin to the EPL?

That's what he said it is, yes.

Could never have happened because of the cost of air travel.

As Tigerlaird said, they would've had to have a VFL, WAFL, SANFL (and eventually NEAFL) conference with some cross-conference games thrown in there to reduce air travel costs.

Actually, could've had a NEAFL conference from day one.

VFL 11 teams
SANFL 10 teams
WAFL 8 teams
NEAFL 7 teams (Hobart, Launceston, Sydney, Brisbane, Southport, Canberra)

Might have had something like the VFL, WAFL and SANFL reducing their number of home and away games from 21/22 to somewhere between 16-18 with home and away crossover games against teams from other leagues. Maybe as the league got bigger and richer there'd be more cross conference games.

Then maybe some national finals system at the end of the league, like this.

Seed teams based on W-L record and league ranking.

Week 1

1 v 8 QF
2 v 7 QF
3 v 6 QF
4 v 5 QF
9 v 16 EF
10 v 15 EF
11 v 14 EF
12 v 13 EF

Week 2

QF losers v EF winners

Week 3

QF winners v week 2 winners

Week 4

Four week 3 winners playoff

Week 5

GF

 

[Coolangatta]

Alternatively, the VFL could've expanded with clubs from Tasmania, NT, Queensland, NSW and ACT and the WAFL and SANFL could've merged.

Each league would play their own 22 game home and away season and then the best 8 clubs from each league would qualify for a top 16 super finals format like I laid out in my previous post.

 

[Fizzler]

Pleased to see this portfolio is still getting some views even after all these years. For what it’s worth, this is a portfolio I began working on as a 13 year old and posted when I was 15, so I didn’t put too much thought into the logistics of a competition like this in 1983 and it would’ve undoubtedly been a massive favour. The best method I think would’ve been a Premier League style top division, then relegation down to a state league for the bottoms team/s, but I’ve enjoyed seeing the structures that have been brainstormed for how this comp might have worked.
Whatever the case, I stopped working on the sequel for this as it was just too hard to come up with a realistic scenario for 30 years into the future, and I’m also less familiar with which of the teams in SA and especially WA would’ve been most likely to survive, merge or fold in the years since. Then with 2023 coming and going it just made the idea of doing a “30 years on” portfolio kind of obsolete and 2033 is just too far into the future.
For those curious, some of the ideas I was planning for the sequel made it into my portfolio based on a scenario where the VFL doesn’t become the AFL. I put that out semi recently and I think it’s worth a look, you can find that here. I’ve lost the designs I made for this one’s sequel but maybe if I find some time I could remake some and share what I had planned.
Also I’ll put down what I used for that other portfolio that I was going to use on the sequel for this one in some spoiler tags in case anyone wants to see all of the designs first.

Spoiler

• North Melbourne move to Canberra (the clash jumper I used was going to be the home jumper)
• Richmond and Fitzroy merge (although I did update the designs quite a bit)
• Tasmania was a continuation of the identity I used here, but they were going to be a bit different in the present
• Melbourne Hawks would’ve happened
• Collingwood and Carlton would’ve existed in the exact same capacity
• I would’ve had Southport in the same design but named the Gold Coast Sharks
• And of course South Melbourne would’ve become Sydney

And every other club in the VFL 2024 portfolio would’ve looked at the very least somewhat different

 

[Coolangatta]

Pleased to see this portfolio is still getting some views even after all these years. For what it’s worth, this is a portfolio I began working on as a 13 year old and posted when I was 15, so I didn’t put too much thought into the logistics of a competition like this in 1983 and it would’ve undoubtedly been a massive favour. The best method I think would’ve been a Premier League style top division, then relegation down to a state league for the bottoms team/s, but I’ve enjoyed seeing the structures that have been brainstormed for how this comp might have worked.
Whatever the case, I stopped working on the sequel for this as it was just too hard to come up with a realistic scenario for 30 years into the future, and I’m also less familiar with which of the teams in SA and especially WA would’ve been most likely to survive, merge or fold in the years since. Then with 2023 coming and going it just made the idea of doing a “30 years on” portfolio kind of obsolete and 2033 is just too far into the future.
For those curious, some of the ideas I was planning for the sequel made it into my portfolio based on a scenario where the VFL doesn’t become the AFL. I put that out semi recently and I think it’s worth a look, you can find that here. I’ve lost the designs I made for this one’s sequel but maybe if I find some time I could remake some and share what I had planned.
Also I’ll put down what I used for that other portfolio that I was going to use on the sequel for this one in some spoiler tags in case anyone wants to see all of the designs first.

Spoiler

• North Melbourne move to Canberra (the clash jumper I used was going to be the home jumper)
• Richmond and Fitzroy merge (although I did update the designs quite a bit)
• Tasmania was a continuation of the identity I used here, but they were going to be a bit different in the present
• Melbourne Hawks would’ve happened
• Collingwood and Carlton would’ve existed in the exact same capacity
• I would’ve had Southport in the same design but named the Gold Coast Sharks
• And of course South Melbourne would’ve become Sydney

And every other club in the VFL 2024 portfolio would’ve looked at the very least somewhat different

I saw that. I don't think any of the big guns like Richmond would've merged with anyone. Fitzroy and Footscray almost happened and in hindsight, it could have if Footscray didn't feel like it was a Fitzroy-centric takeover. I think the name Western Lions, with a more Footscray themed jumper, and a more Fitzroy themed away jumper, might have worked. That's probably the way I would've gone in the 90s.

Roys-Dogs merger, Bears survive, Port comes in, it's still 16 teams; Roos move to Canberra instead of being pushed to play a few games in GC (this could easily have happened); Southport rebrand as GC as you have; Giants come in.

Tassie would still have come in later.

If it was gonna be a national comp from day one, then 1 team in every state + 7 in Vic would've been a good starting point, but the Saints, Roos and Dogs would've been relegated to the VFA, with the Roys moving to Brisbane and Swans to South.

So in the beginning: Pies, Blues, Bombers, Tigers, Hawks, Cats, Demons, Devils, Eagles, Crows, Swans, Lions.

Dockers and Port Pirates join in the 90s; Sharks and Giants join in the 2010s; then you'd have ACT and WA3 coming in next decade as teams 17 and 18.

I agree with your comment about the premier league being the only way it could've happened, with the state leagues being used as the next divisions, and with money going into them to keep them competitive.

Elliott spoke of a premier league type comp that would've had 12 teams to start with: 6 Vic, 2 each WA, SA, 1 each NSW and QLD.

So 1983 AFL could've looked like (based on ladders at the time):

Richmond
Hawthorn
Carlton
Essendon
North Melbourne
Fitzroy
Claremont
Swan Districts
Port Adelaide
Norwood
Sydney
Brisbane (new entity)

VFL, WAFL, SANFL next tiers.

Bottom 3 relegated, top 3 premiers promoted. Tasmania, Southport etc could've joined the VFL. Strict salary caps in all leagues to try and stop the state leagues from losing too many good players. Keeping the national comp to 12 teams would've helped with this, as there'd be a fairer draw and limited spots available in the big league.

Probably no GWS as they wouldn't survive in the second tier, Canberra I think could, doubt the NT could. Expansion would be limited as you'd already have 30 teams to start with, so maybe it'd have gone to 36 teams with the VFL being the biggest second tier comp. Peel would've still joined the WAFL.