What is acceptable?

[Ford Fairlane]

Re: The media ... *Shakes Head* pt 2

I asked Ford about these pictures privately.

I also expressed concern about them. I can understand many may view them a humourous or light hearted. But for those of us who laugh at these images, even in a fun form we must remember there are people out there who were directly and indirectly influenced and how would this make them feel.

I noticed the other day the term suicide was flipantly used. Many, many people use it light heartedly, but it's a senstitive term to those who have lost someone directly from the event. If they are still grieving how would they feel. We could argue they need to toughen up and take it on the chin, but some people struggle with loss. My mother died 3 years ago from natural causes, but I still grieve daily for her.

The trade centre, the hallocast affected many, many people. JFK affect one family directly really and scared thousands of politicians. The risk is par for the job. Go to work and having your building demolished whilst in there isn't, being a certain race isn't justifiable. Maybe society takes things too seriously now.

I'm not defending Ford as I'm new to modding but I agree completely with this decision to move. We have to think of other people and the senstivities.
It was once cool to joke about gays and depressed people. Now those jokes aren't cool. Statsically there would be users on our forum that are or have suffered.

I just use the rule of thumb, if I post this how is it affecting people.

The only people I don't think of are English teachers.

The implication you are creating there is not right Rick.

The images were not moved to address peoples' sensitivities but to discuss the appropriateness of such images in this forum.

They are still readily accessible in an open location in a thread that is just as relevant to their context, if not moreso, than than the one they were moved from.

There has been no editing or deleting of the images and no one has been instructed not to use them.

If Rory wanted to produce an image of Dom captaining the Costa Concordia and it is in the proper context of the thread it will stand. All I've done is ask people to think about what they post. If he has a think and decides no harm done I'll post this then he can.

To call this debate censorship is absurd. This is the antithesis of censorship. We have taken these images into an open thread for a full and frank discussion and left everything on the table.

 

[Portia]

If you are arguing censorship, I will point out from your definition that the images were not suppressed. They are openly viewable for discussion in an appropriate thread in a readily accessible Port forum sub-board.

The appropriate thread is the thread in which they were originally posted. The way you can tell it was appropriate, is because its where the creators of those images originally intended them to be posted, and that they flowed naturally into the narrative that thread was following.

Have any of the complaints you've received been about the pictures lack of relevance to the discussion at the time?

 

[Portia]

Re: The media ... *Shakes Head* pt 2

The images were not moved to address peoples' sensitivities but to discuss the appropriateness of such images in this forum.

Unless vbulletin has changed since I was a mod, I am pretty sure you are able to copy posts to a new thread, you are not required to remove them from the thread they were originally in.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

The appropriate thread is the thread in which they were originally posted. The way you can tell it was appropriate, is because its where the creators of those images originally intended them to be posted, and that they flowed naturally into the narrative that thread was following.

Have any of the complaints you've received been about the pictures lack of relevance to the discussion at the time?

Unless vbulletin has changed since I was a mod, I am pretty sure you are able to copy posts to a new thread, you are not required to remove them from the thread they were originally in.

The discussion created subsequent to those posts was clearly not in the context of the thread so to ensure the thread stayed relatively on topic the images were moved rather than copied.

The images are still readily available unedited for viewing and discussion and are in an entirely appropriate thread.

 

[FishingRick04]

Re: The media ... *Shakes Head* pt 2

The implication you are creating there is not right Rick.

The images were not moved to address peoples' sensitivities but to discuss the appropriateness of such images in this forum.

They are still readily accessible in an open location in a thread that is just as relevant to their context, if not moreso, than than the one they were moved from.

There has been no editing or deleting of the images and no one has been instructed not to use them.

If Rory wanted to produce an image of Dom captaining the Costa Concordia and it is in the proper context of the thread it will stand. All I've done is ask people to think about what they post. If he has a think and decides no harm done I'll post this then he can.

To call this debate censorship is absurd. This is the antithesis of censorship. We have taken these images into an open thread for a full and frank discussion and left everything on the table.

Fair point.

well my opinion is, I personally don't mind them, but I could understand these images could affect other people and therefore they probably shouldn't be.

 

[FishingRick04]

Re: The media ... *Shakes Head* pt 2

Our censorship rule of thumb should be: if you can see something like it on the ABC, its probably OK.

Don't make me start having to watch the ABC now

 

[Portia]

Ford, the exact point at which those subsequent posts ceased to be relevant to the thread was from the point that you posted to it...and your post would have been an absolutely perfect post to start this entirely different thread on if you edited in (or quoted) those pictures to your OP.

Going back and unnecessarily taking a few more posts out is where the censorship lies.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

I guess Porthos as with whether we view this as censorship or not, on that point we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[FishingRick04]

Re: The media ... *Shakes Head* pt 2

Really? By JFK's death? On the Port board? 49 years after the event?

I thought I seperated the issues enough in my post to create a distinction.

 

[tribey]

Shamozzle.

 

[FishingRick04]

Or I could ask it this way Porthos as you made no reference to it from my post. Is it acceptable to joke around or be flippant with the use of suicide or jokes about depression?

 

[Portia]

Is it acceptable to say that someone has made a suicidal attack on the ball? I've seen that plenty. I know that teams have been being `blitzed' since before I was born, and I am pretty sure that there are/were survivors of the blitz that read Australian newspapers.

I think if the jokes refer to suicide or depression, but refer to another context, yeah no worries.

"Port's hopes fell like bankers from a NYC penthouse during the GFC". Sure, no problem in my book, and thats more extreme than any of the other examples in this thread so far.

 

[FishingRick04]

Don't know if this thread is helping me with clarity

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Shamozzle.

Agreed. Now where's your pic

If someone had taken genuine offense to the picture then it should have just been removed end of story. Instead we've have chinese whispers between mods and this thread, or mess, has been created. As Porthos has been saying, this has been taken wayyyy out of context and the previous posts on the media thread are kind of needed for the picture to make sense, especially if an outsider has come in and read this thread. When I made the picture 9/11 was the first big news story that came to mind, really could of been any major story used to depict my view on how we have been treated in the media this off season.

 

[FishingRick04]

Agreed. Now where's your pic

Instead we've have chinese whispers between mods and this thread, or mess, has been created. As Porthos has been saying, this has been taken wayyyy out of context and the previous posts on the media thread are kind of needed for the picture to make sense, especially if an outsider has come in and read this thread. When I made the picture 9/11 was the first big news story that came to mind, really could of been any major story used to depict my view on how we have been treated in the media this off season.

I wouldn't say Chinese whispers, I was asking for an opinion, still am to be honest not just from mods but everyone.

"If someone had taken genuine offense to the picture then it should have just been removed end of story."

Rory that's where it gets difficult.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Not really. I'd have accepted that it was taken down for whatever reason because that's the mods job. I wouldn't have made a fuss because I respect the work the mods do on this board and I doubt many others would have even noticed as I posted the pic up at a reasonably late time.

Creating a new thread and taking what I'd posted out of it's context has now made things difficult.

 

[Portia]

Yeah, I don't know, I think removing it completely wouldn't be any better a result. In other media (and lets face it, Bigfooty is media now) it takes a significant number of complaints to effect change - and frankly it doesn't come even then. I am not confident that one or two people expressing a degree of discomfort about a joke pic is anywhere near enough.

 

[Macca19]

I think this has blown way out of proportion

 

[Eddie Dingle]

I'd like to think we can all just move on now... before I neck myself.





And before anyone gets on their high horse my brother committed suicide by hanging himself 5 years ago. I grieve for him everyday and miss him terribly, sadly on the 5th anniversary of his death this year one of our mates took himself out the same way.

If I was to let myself get upset every time I heard someone make a joke about "necking themselves" or any mention of suicide I'd be one sad sack. I understand Fords position and I agree with Porthos in the most part but **** me it wont be long and we ("society") wont be able to say anything without fear of offending someone. I'm happy to hear or see an offensive joke/image and if it offends me (highly unlikely) I'll let the individual know as I did on the soccer board when a racist joke was made. Apology was made, accepted, and we all moved on. which its probably time to do here.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Ok, here's what I will do. I will return the images to the original thread because it was not my intention to be seen to be censoring the use of the images.

Rory, as the publisher of the pic, if you are uncomfortable with it being located in this thread I will remove it from here and as a courtesy to spookism do the same for his post.

My concern about the conversation going off topic is likely now unfounded given the extent of discussion in this thread.

Just to be clear, when I was first asked about these images my response was that moderators are not the arbiters of what may be construed as poor taste and that as the images did not break any rules they should stay up.

 

[tribey]

If I was to let myself get upset every time I heard someone make a joke about "necking themselves" or any mention of suicide I'd be one sad sack.

Same digs, Top Gun MiGs.

I actually think society has become far too accustomed to getting offended on behalf of others, a la 'well I wasn't specifically offended but group-x certainly probably maybe perhaps would be.'

This reminds me of one tute too many.

 

[spookism]

This whole issue would of being sorted within 2 pages if this same thread was made before any images were moved. Rory and I (mainly Rory) have now become examples for what is a hot-button topic, essentially.

Personally, it takes a lot to offend myself, in context or not - including stuff that is personal to me - but then again, I am a rather sick individual.


But, yeah hopefully it's all sorted now and we can all move on.


wasgoingtopostapictureherebutunsureiftoosoon.jpg

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

I think this has blown way out of proportion

Agreed.

Ok, here's what I will do. I will return the images to the original thread because it was not my intention to be seen to be censoring the use of the images.

Rory, as the publisher of the pic, if you are uncomfortable with it being located in this thread I will remove it from here and as a courtesy to spookism do the same for his post.

Not at all. I would have let you known if I was. I just think there's a whole lot of kerfuffle over nothing. At no time have I been offended by anyones actions, just letting my thoughts be known.

Anyway I'm done, I think I've covered what I wanted to.

 

[Portia]

Settlement achieved!

 

[Macca19]

I love my cape/overcoat!!