what is Australia's ideal population?

[acker]

The Mississip', baby. That thing carries more water than all of Australia's rivers put together.

You could navigate an aircraft carrier up a fair bit of it.

And I know a lot of brave people who get half p!ssed and swim across rivers here. But I dont think trying to swim across that one unprepared ad-lib would be a good idea.

No matter how much "bundy" you had in ya, and how good it seemed at the time.

They tell me that after you go under you float back to the top about 35-37 hours later.

And your strides and shirt have definitely split.

 

[Perrin]

[*]Far North Queensland (Mossman to Cardwell) another 1 million
QUOTE]

I seriously doubt if 1 million could go here. This region happens to be the most flood and cyclone prone region of Australia. It may have plenty of water but the terrain is either flood prone flats or extremely steep hillsides. Hardly ideal for 1 million people.

 

[acker]

[*]Far North Queensland (Mossman to Cardwell) another 1 million


I seriously doubt if 1 million could go here. This region happens to be the most flood and cyclone prone region of Australia. It may have plenty of water but the terrain is either flood prone flats or extremely steep hillsides. Hardly ideal for 1 million people.

F4og Sh6t

How big do you think a Cyclone is ?

Why the frig did they even bother to build Cairns, Townsville and any other city North of Bundaberg anyway

 

[bit_pattern]

Can you tell us why such regions haven't already been settled yet "acker"? I mean, so far you make a good argument but I tend to think that if such a thing could have happened it would already have done so.

 

[acker]

Can you tell us why such regions haven't already been settled yet "acker"? I mean, so far you make a good argument but I tend to think that if such a thing could have happened it would already have done so.

Most of those apparently "cyclone ravished ones" have been settled "BP"

As a young Victorian in QLD, I fondly remember going to see some pretty ordinary Aussie Rules being played in North Rocky. Rockhampton is by the way about 40 km's off the coast

I got p!$$#d in Gladstone as well on the coast, but it gets a threat of the big "C" only about once every 4 yrs, maybe hit every 10....lots of yachts in the harbour.

My daughter was born in Cairns, surprisingly her grandparents (the mums side had lived their for 10 years without a big "C" hit.

But Noel my ex's father remembered vividly Cyclone Athena in the 70's in Townsville when he got caught. And appropriatly but not literally sh^t himself.

Apparently he was listening intently to the battery powered radio, and appropriately opening the windows on one side of the house, then when they said "the other way" openened the ones on the other side.

Cripes they dont continue to hit the same places, and the residents in the zone are rightfully aware of them and take the neccesary procedures as required.

 

[bit_pattern]

I see you point but that doesn't answer why the Fitzroy River and such haven't been heavily settled yet, "AKR"

 

[RUNVS]

[*]Far North Queensland (Mossman to Cardwell) another 1 million
QUOTE]

I seriously doubt if 1 million could go here. This region happens to be the most flood and cyclone prone region of Australia. It may have plenty of water but the terrain is either flood prone flats or extremely steep hillsides. Hardly ideal for 1 million people.

No but it seems ideal to knock down every home in the area and create the worlds largest dam which could supply half the country

 

[acker]

I see you point but that doesn't answer why the Fitzroy River and such haven't been heavily settled yet, "AKR"

Dawson/Fitzroy river my freind.

Rocky has actualy put a no-build on part of the Fitzroy River on southern (south east) suburban areas constantly getting flooded.

A revised levy bank will take them out of the safety zone.

I know it sounds very attractive because of the "second" word name. But the south of the "Fitzroy" suburb "Depot Hill" strikes fear with me as a buying proposition.

I just had a look on the web, but the Rocky city council has obviously sold its soul to Rock & Roll and is full of pay for suburban map's.

But if you stick to buying land around names like "Beserkar" heights or what ever on the slopes of Mount Archer (Yepoon/Mackay side) you will pretty much be OK.

A bit hard to work out exactly where the "Fitzroy river becomes a viable proposition "bit_pattern" as it is a configuration of the Dawson river (Biloela) and the McKenzie river (inland north of Malborough) I think. * I was at the McKenzie once very late at night, and had to get home to Moura on the Dawson...in a friggen truck.

Very impressed but..and it was about 1993. Great flood plain on the McKenzie I wish I was a real estate agent, but I wasn't.

 

[bit_pattern]

Dawson/Fitzroy river my freind.

Bah... Pwned.

Heh heh... TBH, I'm drunk and am struggling to understand exactly what your saying but your post did make me laugh.

I'll read it again tomorrow...

 

[acker]

Bah... Pwned.

Heh heh... TBH, I'm drunk and am struggling to understand exactly what your saying but your post did make me laugh.

I'll read it again tomorrow...

So am I

Thats why I slung off at Richo in another thread.

Limbo club time.

 

[Sydneyfan]

Another working day in Sydney, another commute to work in a sardine-tin train this morning, while the roads were gridlocked. Massively increasing Australia's population will only make this worse - Sydney's infrastructure can't cope with our current population, let alone doubling it.
Not to mention that the additional people will be bidding against us for somewhere to live, further worsening the housing crisis.

Economic rationalists may want a bigger population, but in the real world - driving down Windsor Road at 8:30am or getting on a train at Town Hall at 5:15pm - it's not going to work.

I think that's more the fault of the NSW State Government with their broken-promises, incompotency and lack of funding into critical infrastructure, and also local governments' differing regulations and zoning patterns, lack of strategic planning and NIMBYism which has created a cluttered, divided city which is increasingly hard to get across.

Why is it much larger cities such as Seoul and Tokyo have much more comprehensive, efficient and reliable public transport services, servicing more than twice the population of Sydney daily. It's because these cities, and many others through Asia and Europe, put enough funding into critical infrastructure and public transportation. After living in Asia for five years, I'm ashamed to see how shitty public transport is in Sydney and how difficult it is to get around town these days.

I believe the Sydney basin could hold 6 million residents in reasonable comfort providing a regional planning council (with power to over-ride bickering LGAs) to oversee and implement planning, zoning, green spaces, roads and public transport with set up and fully supported. Sydney is becoming a basket-case due to its crumbling infrastructure. I've been to cities of third-world countries with better public transport and road networks than Sydney. As the years go on and Asian economies continue to prosper Sydney faces the possibility of slipping further and further behind unless it acts now.

 

[Sydneyfan]

I think Australia could hold a population of 30 - 35 million, 40 million at the most. Provided there is careful planning and implementation of new regions and expansion of existing cities. New technology, such as salination plants, may definitely help in this though it's unwise to move into too many new regions which haven't supported large populations before. Urban consolidation, especially in major centres, would be necessary for this to be accomplished and I'm not entirely sure most Australians are quite willing to give up their quarter acre blocks just yet, though Sydney and other cities many already have.

With a population of 36.5 million, I think a suitable population spread would be something like this:

New South Wales - 11 million

Sydney - 6.5 million (including Central Coast 7.5 million)
Newcastle-Hunter - 1 million
Wollongong-Illawarra - 750,000

Victoria - 8 million
Melbourne- Geelong - 6 million

Queensland - 8 million
Brisbane-Gold Coast-Sunshine Coast - 5.5 million
Cairns - 500,000
Townsville - 500,000
Rockhampton - 250,000
Mackay - 250,000

Western Australia - 5 million
Perth - 3.5 million
SW WA (Bunbury, Busselton, Albany, etc.) - 1 million

South Australia - 2.5 million
Adelaide - 1,750,000
SE SA (anywhere SE of Adelaide and NW of Adelaide up to Port Augusta) - 500,000

Canberra-Queanbeyan (including all of ACT & surrounding NSW regions) - 1 million

Tasmania - 1 million
Hobart & surrounds - 500,000
Launceston & surrounds - 300,000
Devonport-Burnie - 150,000

Northern Territory - 500,000
Darwin and surrounds - 350,000
Alice Springs - 75,000

Under this scenario - secondary (mostly inland) centres capable of holding increased populations (provided enough land and/or water can be provided without diminishing quality of life too much) would need to be developed as 'new towns' providing jobs, good & services and taking the pressure off larger coastal centres. Cities I'd look at for this development would be any or all of: Albury-Wodonga, Bathurst-Orange, Wagga Wagga, Tamworth, Armidale, Lismore, Grafton, Dubbo, Shepparton, Ballarat, Bendigo, Wangaratta, Toowoomba, Rockhampton, Mackay, Gladstone, Bundaberg, Albany, Bunbury, Esperance, Karratha.

 

[JW Frogen]

I would say zero.

But then I am into Zen.

And a Collingwood supporter.

 

[Borry]

30 million, purely because of our lack of arable land to support even more.

Immigration is still important, with our ageing population if we stopped immigration we'd be forking out exorbitant amounts of tax on pensions and have a bad skills shortage.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

why is Americas population so much bigger than ours when we both have similar land sizes ? is it just simply due to soil quality ?

I believe it's essentially because much more of the US' land is/was fertile than Australia and much more fertile than the parts of Australia that are/were fertile.

From a commercial standpoint, much of Australia is a pretty barren place when it gets down to it.

 

[JW Frogen]

I say Australia becomes like Logan’s Run, we put a big dome over the place and despense with, "kill" all people over the age of 29. (Except me, I will be a useful exhibit against the ravages of age.)

And then Australia turns them into nutritious crackers. (Sorry, dangerous genetic cross pollination movie contamination with Solent Green.)

 

[Sydneyfan]

why is Americas population so much bigger than ours when we both have similar land sizes ? is it just simply due to soil quality ?

Looking at the satellite images of mainland US and Australia shows how much greener and more fertile the continental US is, on average, than Australia. The US has the huge Mississippi-Missouri river system which covers a large portion of its inferior providing valuable water. Our interior is mostly arid and our great inland river system, the Murray-Darling, is slow-moving and carries only a fraction of the water the Mississippi-Missouri carries.

United States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:USA-satellite.jpg

Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Australia_satellite_plane.jpg

The US' climate is, on average, much more temperate and conducive to farming holding a large proportion of fertile land. Where's Australia is two-thirds covered by desert or semi-arid plains, not so good for farming.


United States
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d0/Verybroadclimatemap.png

Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Australia-climate-map_MJC01.png

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Ideal population using what technology? The future will give humans greater capabilities. Australia will house a moral abligation to hold more people.

 

[Bombermania]

At present I think 20 Million is a good number, upon completion of several desalination plants I believe we can increase our population to around 60 Million, this could be done for we already produce three or four times the amount than we actually consume so we could rely less on exports and more on domestic markets which woudl enable our farmers to possibly reduce use of their land which would be a good thing for the environment.

 

[RUNVS]

Population rates soaring across country

AUSTRALIA'S population is racing ahead at rates not consistently seen since the migrant boom years of the 1950s and 60s, with growth of 1.5 per cent, or a record 315,700 extra people, during 2006-07.

Figures released yesterday by the Australian Bureau of Statistics show the growth is not being driven in any one particular geographic or demographic area, but is across all Australia except for parts of western NSW and western Queensland.

Growth is slightly stronger on the edges of capital cities, in the inner cities, and in seachange areas, particularly along the east coast.

The overall growth rate of 1.53 per cent was up from 1.48 per cent the previous year.

While there were two years of high migration in the 80s in which higher growth rates were recorded, it was back in the period 1947-72 that Australia consistently recorded more than 1.5per cent.

However, in terms of raw numbers, the extra 316,000 people who called Australia home in 2006-07 represents the biggest increase ever.

A breakdown of the growth compared with the previous year shows there were 10,000 extra births (273,000, up from 263,000) and 31,000 extra people gained through migration (178,000, up from 147,000), although there were also 1000 more deaths (135,000, up from 134,000).

"It's everything coming together at the same time," demographer Bernard Salt said.

"Generation X has finally realised they can have babies; migration is very high, mainly because of the skills shortage and the need to fill jobs to keep the mining boom going; and the baby boomers aren't dying yet."

The Gold Coast and Brisbane remained the fastest-growing areas, with an extra 17,000 and an extra 16,000 people respectively, meaning the City of Brisbane local government area's population has now exceeded a million.

After these, the big growth areas were on the edge of major cities, with Wanneroo, on the northern outskirts of Perth, and then Wyndham and Casey, on the outskirts of Melbourne, being next on the list of fastest-growing.

Another high-growth group were the seachange coasts, with the Tweed-Byron area of northern NSW and the "surf coast" area of Victoria around Torquay among the boom areas.

The competition between Sydney and Melbourne also intensified, with the population of the Melbourne statistical district growing by an extra 62,000 people, while that of the Sydney statistical district grew by only 51,000.

But while the growth in Melbourne was the same as the previous year, the growth in Sydney was well up on the 36,000 recorded previously.

"They love their rivalry, Sydney and Melbourne, and it'll be interesting to see next year if Sydney keeps growing and can get back in front," Mr Salt said.

Moree and Narrabri in NSW and Banana and Duaringa in Queensland had the biggest losses, but together they amounted to just a few hundred people.

In Tasmania, population growth of 0.7 per cent was concentrated around Hobart, with Brighton, Sorrell and Latrobe being the fastest-growing municipalities.

South Australia's total growth of 16,000 was the highest recorded in that state since 1974-75, with the inner city of Adelaide recording the fastest population growth in the state.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23464829-421,00.html

 

[skipper kelly]

I dont care as long as they are working families.

 

[Perrin]

F4og Sh6t

How big do you think a Cyclone is ?

Why the frig did they even bother to build Cairns, Townsville and any other city North of Bundaberg anyway

Good question. I lived up there for 3 years and struggled to justify why.

My OP was more about the flood that follows rather than the actual cyclone. Cyclones quickly transform into rain depressions once they hit the coast and I saw two pretty big one in my time up there.

My point was there is bugger all land for urban development in the area you flagged as much of it is either flood prone, world heritage or (in the case of the hills behind Innisfail) prime agricultural land. The NSW coast between Newcastle and Lismore has far greater potential for development (unfortunately). Plenty of land and undammed rivers.

 

[Hinesight]

what is Australia's ideal population?

95% women, 5% men

 

[goal sneak]

21,234,759

 

[medusala]

Immigration is still important, with our ageing population if we stopped immigration we'd be forking out exorbitant amounts of tax on pensions and have a bad skills shortage.

Media myth. Immigration does NOT solve the problem of an ageing population, it merely delays it.

Further one wonders how letting in large numbers of UNskilled migrants solves a skilled labour shortage