Discussion What is holding us back from becoming an MMA powerhouse?

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Nickos66

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I don't think Megan gets a shot anytime soon, she got outgrappled by Holly Holm ffs.

She would benefit massively just spending a coupe of years ironing out some of the big kinks in her defensive grappling to keep things standing where's she's best suited. It's be tough being at the elite pinnacle of the sport with everybody capitalising on your deficiencies - that never appeared to be deficiencies until you started fighting internationally regularly.
 

the_interloper

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I don't think Megan gets a shot anytime soon, she got outgrappled by Holly Holm ffs.

She would benefit massively just spending a coupe of years ironing out some of the big kinks in her defensive grappling to keep things standing where's she's best suited. It's be tough being at the elite pinnacle of the sport with everybody capitalising on your deficiencies - that never appeared to be deficiencies until you started fighting internationally regularly.
Speaking of Holly Megan should get along to Greg Jackson's gym, whatever they taught Holly before her Ronda fight worked a treat.
 

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the_interloper

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Not sure Holly won that fight as much as Ronda had a mental implosion and some of the worst coaching of all time
I thought I remembered that Holly had done a lot of work with Jon Jones for that fight. I don't understand a lot of grappling stuff but figured Holly must have learnt some decent defences to keep the fight standing for that.
 

Nickos66

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The strategy for that fight was centered around avoiding the clinch at all costs, she was more or less a matador in that fight. It's questionable how long she'd have lasted if Ronda didn't believe she was an elite boxer. Holly never actually engaged in anything that could be considered grappling in that fight.
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Topkent

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I thought I remembered that Holly had done a lot of work with Jon Jones for that fight. I don't understand a lot of grappling stuff but figured Holly must have learnt some decent defences to keep the fight standing for that.
That might be true, it's just Ronda thought she was the best striker in the world in her head and then she got it kicked off. I don't remember Holly having to use it once.
 

Guy Threepwood

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That might be true, it's just Ronda thought she was the best striker in the world in her head and then she got it kicked off. I don't remember Holly having to use it once.
Ronda did have some moments where she got Holly in the clinch. Holly's A defense was footwork, but when clinched she would put an arm across Ronda's midsection to stop her getting hip to hip which really nullified her judo.



Holly following that gameplan and being physically strong enough to implement it against Ronda paid off in spades. I don't think Ronda had ever fought someone as strong as Holly and was surprised when she couldn't toss her on her head immediately.

Ronda got absolutely destroyed in that fight but did Rock Holly with a left hook at one point. I don't think she thought she was the best striker in the world (despite the drivel that came out of Tavardyen's mouth) but believed in her power and her chin enough to think she could hang there.
 

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the_interloper

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It would appear that rugby background is good for MMA, Volkanovski, Tuivasa, there's probably more, I guess toughness and the ability to control an opponent are transferable.
 

Topkent

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It would appear that rugby background is good for MMA, Volkanovski, Tuivasa, there's probably more, I guess toughness and the ability to control an opponent are transferable.
Rugby is just miles tougher than AFL these days. Those blokes are men, AFL lists are 50% boys these days.
 

GC2015

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Interestingly, if Adesanya beats Blachowicz and Anderson beats Nunes (long shot) tomorrow then 33% of the UFC's gold will reside in our Oceanic region. That would be the highest percentage of any region:
  • Oceania 4/12 = 33% (LHW: Adesanya, MW: Adesanya, FW: Volkanovski, WFW: Anderson)
  • Americas 3/12 = 25% (HW: Miocic, FW: Figueiredo, WBW: Nunes)
  • Europe 3/12 = 25% (LW: Nurmagomedov, BW: Yan, WFW: Shevchenko)
  • Africa 1/12 = 8% (WW: Usman)
  • Asia 1/12 = 8% (WSW: Weili)
Does this mean we're just over 24 hours away from becoming the most dominant MMA region in the world? I understand some may argue Adesanya is Nigerian but he lives in NZ, trains at the famous City Kickboxing gym in Auckland and contributes more to our region than the African region when it comes to MMA IMO. Bottom line, the belt will be heading to Auckland should he come out victorious tomorrow.
 

Topkent

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Interestingly, if Adesanya beats Blachowicz and Anderson beats Nunes (long shot) tomorrow then 33% of the UFC's gold will reside in our Oceanic region. That would be the highest percentage of any region:
  • Oceania 4/12 = 33% (LHW: Adesanya, MW: Adesanya, FW: Volkanovski, WFW: Anderson)
  • Americas 3/12 = 25% (HW: Miocic, FW: Figueiredo, WBW: Nunes)
  • Europe 3/12 = 25% (LW: Nurmagomedov, BW: Yan, WFW: Shevchenko)
  • Africa 1/12 = 8% (WW: Usman)
  • Asia 1/12 = 8% (WSW: Weili)
Does this mean we're just over 24 hours away from becoming the most dominant MMA region in the world? I understand some may argue Adesanya is Nigerian but he lives in NZ, trains at the famous City Kickboxing gym in Auckland and contributes more to our region than the African region when it comes to MMA IMO. Bottom line, the belt will be heading to Auckland should he come out victorious tomorrow.
The greatest part about this sport is that very easily Volk and Style bender could lose and we have just one champion left.
I think we are just holding it till the next great wave of Brazilians come through
 

GC2015

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The greatest part about this sport is that very easily Volk and Style bender could lose and we have just one champion left.
The unpredictable nature of sport has always been the most interesting element. That's why we love (and sometimes hate) it so much

I think we are just holding it till the next great wave of Brazilians come through
I disagree. I think the Brazilian dominance in mixed martial arts is diminishing for a reason. It was only 5-10 years ago that we saw dominance from the Brazilians in almost every division with guys like Werdum/Dos Santos at heavyweight, Machida/Hua at light heavyweight, Silva at middleweight, Dos Anjos at lightweight, Aldo at featherweight and Nunes/Cyborg in the women's divisions. In 2021 they only have two champions and one of them may lose their belt to an Aussie tomorrow (again, long shot).

I believe wrestling/jiu jitsu outside of North and South America has improved so much that it is no longer the massive advantage it once was. Adesanya is a perfect example of that. If he came through 10+ years ago it would be safe to assume he would get mauled by a wrestler/jiu jitsu specialist but now his capabilities on the mat as well as his takedown defence are at a high enough level where he is able to engage more on the feet and use his superior striking to win. The same goes for Whittaker when he took on an Olympic wrestling silver medallist in Romero and won by keeping the fight standing up and out striking him.

Our biggest strength is our striking so we just have to get our fighters to an acceptable level of wrestling/jiu jitsu and the rest will take care of itself.
 

phantom13

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Its absolutely the grappling, Aussies have a long and pretty impressive boxing and kickboxing history but we have no real wrestling program and BJJ is pretty fresh. If there is a positive its that not having a dominant base (eg BJJ or Wrestling being historically entrenched) we can develop and adapt in a very modern way.

I still think wrestling is the best base (if you have to pick one) if for no other reason than its workrate and weight cutting give you more than just the combat fundamentals.

I can remember jumping into sparring for guys only 5-6 years ago because i was one of the best wrestlers in our gym, ive never formally trained in anything grappling prior to starting MMA but my footy base helped me with balance and body co-ordination etc. but if we had an ACTUAL wrestler there i have no doubt id have had my ass handed to me.
 

phantom13

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I never really thought of it then but Holly could have absolutely ripped her to the body there but this was far more embarassing for Ronda
Its a funny thing i remember everyone seeing Ronda on the bag and the speedball (which by the way really does very little for anyone who wants to ACTUALLY fight) and being completely seduced. I saw MASSIVE issues with the total lack of defence she had and thats such an amatuer move. You spend way more time when boxing trying to avoid being hit or minimizing the impact of being hit than you do throwing punches. A footy coach once told me if you have 30 touches playing footy youll maybe have the ball in your hands for 2 minutes, game goes for 120 minutes, what you do in the other 118 minutes matters alot. This is no different.

I made a good little stash on Holm by KO that day.

I also remember Robert Whittaker fighting a wrestler (Colton Smith?) and having his lead hand pinned to his hip for the whole fight to help shrug off the takedown. He and his team essentially decided Smith couldnt box with Rob so the only danger of being beaten was a takedown. It was brilliant planning and execution.
 

Topkent

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Its absolutely the grappling, Aussies have a long and pretty impressive boxing and kickboxing history but we have no real wrestling program and BJJ is pretty fresh. If there is a positive its that not having a dominant base (eg BJJ or Wrestling being historically entrenched) we can develop and adapt in a very modern way.

I still think wrestling is the best base (if you have to pick one) if for no other reason than its workrate and weight cutting give you more than just the combat fundamentals.

I can remember jumping into sparring for guys only 5-6 years ago because i was one of the best wrestlers in our gym, ive never formally trained in anything grappling prior to starting MMA but my footy base helped me with balance and body co-ordination etc. but if we had an ACTUAL wrestler there i have no doubt id have had my ass handed to me.
The f’ed thing too is all these Americans now are starting to look off the pace compared to these Sambo wrestlers. The Russians are just nuts
 

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