What is it going to take?

Only Forwards

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Thread starter #1
For much of last year we were a team that could start but not finish.

Now we appear to be a team that can finish but not start.

People can talk about individual players efforts. People can talk about coaching deficiencies. Its on all of them, bickering about where to point blame is pointless. They can all wear it because its just not good enough from any of them.

The time to drive a stake in the ground and say enough is enough is right now. Is this team, this coaching group serious about playing finals football? They sure as shit are not showing the week in week out desire to do it at the moment.

Saying we do not have the cattle is a cop out. In 2007 we played our way to finals with substandard facilities and a rag tag team, we did so running on the desire to not die as a football club. I refuse to believe that that desire that underpinned the club has complete gone from its halls.

Come Sunday we will see a North Melbourne side that is committed to every contest? That is going to do the hard work that is required to win the game from the outset?

I love them, I have loved them from as far back as I can remember. I really want to be able to say yeah my team will show up to play. My team is going to give it a crack from the get go. I cannot say this with any conviction and the moment and it makes me feel sick.

Show me, show me the North Melbourne that comes to play with more desire than the opposition. Its gotta be in there somewhere right?
 

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DJ Dupree

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#2
I guess the issue for me now is I don't particularly get convinced if they do, and kind of don't care if they don't show up to play.

The Gold Coast game did my head in, I think for this year. Full stop. To put up that sort of effort, after the amazing interstate wins against Sydney and Fremantle. And beating Port. It just made me realise, this side turns up when it wants to. Being beaten by the Gold Coast is not the disgrace it used to be, because they're obviously a good team now and many sides are finding this out the hard way. I just thought our intensity and will to win was missing from the outset. Add this to the disgraceful showings against Collingwood, Essendon and the 'win' against the Dogs, I'm just over this particular group of players finding new ways to screw their season up. It's been twelve solid years of mid-table, neither nor there, almost but not quite.. I guess the difference now is the talent is there, but the desire is not - which is worse than when we had a group of average footy players lacking talent but willing themselves to make a contest. That I could stomach. This, I cannot. It is un-Shinboner like, and they should hang their heads in shame.

They could show me anything in the next few weeks. I won't be convinced unless we finish at least fifth and win a final from here on in. Anything less and they have failed. I don't care what rousing victories they produce, unless they back it up again and again.
 

archereleven

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#4
Its going to take hurt which none of the playing group outside of a select few seem to feel after rubbish performances.

I would rather watch a bunch of hacks that have a crack than a talented bunch with no heart...
 

TennisPlayerAndy

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#5
There aren't enough who WANT to bring the required effort every week.

There aren't enough who WANT to hurt for the team.

There aren't enough who WANT to play for the jumper.
 

Only Forwards

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There aren't enough who WANT to bring the required effort every week.

There aren't enough who WANT to hurt for the team.

There aren't enough who WANT to play for the jumper.
Then where does this come from?

What has to happen to change it?

Dropping 1-2 players isn't the answer, sacking the coach with years to run isn't going to happen.

It has to come from somewhere.

Or we mire in the middle again and go no where.

Record membership, 2014 disappointing more North Supporters than ever before.
 

shinboner spiggs

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#7
So we cant start games of footy, no matter how big a result or outcome it is for the footy club. its a shame, you'd think we'd be chomping at the bit to get out on that ground and "unleash hell". but we need our pants to be pulled down for us to realise that we need to kick it up a gear. what a farce.

As an avid cricket watcher, nothing excites me more than a wild fast bowler sending down a brutal bouncer to a batsmen yet to face a ball. the exact thing needs to happen come sunday in a footy sense. nothing stupid, nothing over the top, it might be an absolute ferocious attack on the ball from ziebell or even swallow and boomer to go get physical with messers selwood and shuey, sledging them about their bitching and squibbing. something that makes the team motivated, and some serious c*** into them.

You'd think that this game defines whether we'll make up the numbers, have a good shot at some september, or not even feature at all. You'd think that last year's implosion and subsequent heart break will motivate them to ensure it doesnt happen again. You'd think that.

Let's see it.
 

TennisPlayerAndy

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#8
Then where does this come from?

What has to happen to change it?

Dropping 1-2 players isn't the answer, sacking the coach with years to run isn't going to happen.

It has to come from somewhere.

Or we mire in the middle again and go no where.

Record membership, 2014 disappointing more North Supporters than ever before.
My fear is it won't come from anywhere.

We have Ian Baker-Finch'd.
 
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Many posters have pointed out the absurdity of players not looked switched in AFL games and I'm starting to join them re querying the players for that. The coaches motivating them long term is a separate issue.

These are blokes who have dedicated all their efforts to becoming professional athletes. But to watch some of them in games you'd think they're disinterested children being forced to play Auskick.

Even if they thought the coach was a twat and wanted a trade next year (not suggesting either of these scenarios are occuring) you'd think for their own pride and professionalism they'd run hard and do the things that typify an AFL footballer. Yet in a first quarter kickout it's often like watching those idiotic statue buskers in the city.

Maybe it's the perspective of a new day and again the long term issues with Brad have been discussed elsewhere but I'm 'joining the chorus' of supporters starting to wonder why people lucky and talented enough to get the sort of money and opportunities that can set them up for life are not always putting in equivalent effort to their opponents during games.

You watch lower paid sports like the surf ironman and these men and women are killing themselves for often little money and usually balancing training and competition with fulltime jobs. Why are relatively well paid AFL players looking like they're not always pushing themselves to a similar capacity?
 

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#12
You watch lower paid sports like the surf ironman and these men and women are killing themselves for often little money and usually balancing training and competition with fulltime jobs. Why are relatively well paid AFL players looking like they're not always pushing themselves to a similar capacity?
I have it on good reports that a certain number 3 is frequently *and highly concerned about the post game festivities and outings that occur..seven days before the game has even played.
 
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I have it on good reports that a certain number 3 is frequently *and highly concerned about the post game festivities and outings that occur..seven days before the game has even played.
And why not? He can turn up, put in whatever effort he feels like and is guaranteed a spot the next week.
 
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#14
And why not? He can turn up, put in whatever effort he feels like and is guaranteed a spot the next week.
Exactly, the output they feel like is adequate.
Hopefully they will realize that the current effort from the 50-100 gamer's isn't enough.
If they think that is the way to give players like Harvey, Petrie, Wells and Dal santo the Premiership ending that they desire, I feel bad for them.

Up the ****in.g ante.
 

roos_fanatic08

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#15
Then where does this come from?

What has to happen to change it?

Dropping 1-2 players isn't the answer, sacking the coach with years to run isn't going to happen.

It has to come from somewhere.

Or we mire in the middle again and go no where.

Record membership, 2014 disappointing more North Supporters than ever before.
Its come from Scott dropping the Shinboner spirit. We don't play with spirit.

In the high performance culture, and all that junk we've lost the heart, the soul and the fabric of playing in the royal blue and white.

7 years ago, when we played finals under laidley, we didn't have half as talented side as what we do now. The difference was, that when those old school players put the roos top on they were willing to put everything on the line and get the best out of themselves week in week out because they knew that they were doing it for their teammates. I don't see that in this crop, they may be all mates, but they don't have that instinct and that drive to get the best out of themselves. I don't what it is, but somewhere along the way that spirit has diminished.
 

Passmore

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#17
Maybe the group just are that good. They remind me of the sides in the mid-late 80's. Could beat anyone on their day, could lose to anyone the next day.

A large chunk of the playing group seem childish and immature to me. They are all mates, young blokes enjoying the fruits of being an AFL footballer.

If they are going to improve, it needs to come from the 22-25 y/o group. Some of these guys need to make a stand. Put a stop to the practical jokes, the pirates, all this bullshit. Someone needs to drive this group.

Jack Zeibell it is your time. I'm sure Luke McDonald will come along with you.
 

Kimbo

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#18
Its come from Scott dropping the Shinboner spirit. We don't play with spirit.

In the high performance culture, and all that junk we've lost the heart, the soul and the fabric of playing in the royal blue and white.

7 years ago, when we played finals under laidley, we didn't have half as talented side as what we do now. The difference was, that when those old school players put the roos top on they were willing to put everything on the line and get the best out of themselves week in week out because they knew that they were doing it for their teammates. I don't see that in this crop, they may be all mates, but they don't have that instinct and that drive to get the best out of themselves. I don't what it is, but somewhere along the way that spirit has diminished.
Yeah, nah. The difference is a coach that believed in extrinsic motivation (from outside) vs a coach that believes in intrinsic motivation (it can't actually come from outside). I'm in the latter camp, and ultimately it comes down to whether or not the guys have the actual desire, or know what it takes.

There's a reason we're focused on player motivation right now, and not their skill nor even predominantly the coaching staff and that's because we've seen the best this team can offer, both offensively and defensively and we know more is possible. When things are inconsistent, it may be a question of maturity and waiting till the penny drops, or it may be that the individuals and group just don't have it within themselves to bring the required effort every week.

So, in the meantime, we wait and wonder and not without some disappointment at 'what might be'.
 

Kimbo

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#19
Then where does this come from?

What has to happen to change it?

Dropping 1-2 players isn't the answer, sacking the coach with years to run isn't going to happen.

It has to come from somewhere.

Or we mire in the middle again and go no where.

Record membership, 2014 disappointing more North Supporters than ever before.
IF we're to move ahead, the penny has to drop with the players.

It's unlikely to magically happen through an aggregation of separate individual reflections. It's got to be a conversation or series of conversations in which the group itself (ie player-lead) decide they want more and commit to giving more.
 

Kimbo

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#21
Uncompromising attitude off the track should translate to an uncompromising attitude on.........not sure if we are there yet.
Both (training track/game day) are what I refer to as "outer work". Both stem from the "inner work"... the attitude. Not a week-to-week attitude, but a resolve that never leaves them until they achieve the ultimate, or at least retire knowing they gave it their best shot.
 

Only Forwards

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IF we're to move ahead, the penny has to drop with the players.

It's unlikely to magically happen through an aggregation of separate individual reflections. It's got to be a conversation or series of conversations in which the group itself (ie player-lead) decide they want more and commit to giving more.
I read this and think that it would be worthwhile them going out and getting on the sauce.
 

Kimbo

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#23
I read this and think that it would be worthwhile them going out and getting on the sauce.
If releasing the inhibitions via alcohol is what it takes, by all means I say. "Boomer, Wellsy, Boof... I love yous all."

But seriously, it may take courage - dutch or otherwise - for one or more of them to break the mould and take it to a whole new level. A deeper level of honesty and a higher level of commitment to excellence and to ongoing honesty.
 

Passmore

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#24
If releasing the inhibitions via alcohol is what it takes, by all means I say. "Boomer, Wellsy, Boof... I love yous all."

But seriously, it may take courage - dutch or otherwise - for one or more of them to break the mould and take it to a whole new level. A deeper level of honesty and a higher level of commitment to excellence and to ongoing honesty.
I'm sure the good sides, Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney have no trouble with honesty. I'm also sure that the blokes handing it out have no issues hurting a few feelings along the way. Someone at these clubs broke their own mould of mediocrity.

At the moment this group is dishonest with their efforts. Maybe this team is just not good enough to go all the way. If that is the case, so be it. All I ask as a supporter is that they give themselves every opportunity to succeed.
 

DJ Dupree

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#25
Another possibility is maybe they don't play with any confidence or commitment because they've had a new (or at the very least modified) game plan every year. The coach hasn't had any confidence or conviction in his message from year to year, and seems to fly by the seat of his pants and then parrot all the right answers when it comes unstuck.

I've seen, and I've been in situations in the workplace where the role has changed, you're asked to do something you've traditionally not done, or ever been good at. Sometimes the changes have been arbitrary, and you ask yourself not only why the change, but why not give the previous idea half a chance before throwing it out with the bathwater?

In this situation, you rock up to work in about 3 different minds, worrying less about the overall ultimate goal and using your strengths to get there, and more about ticking off minor 'tick and flicks' to keep yourself in the right column, to at the very least be seen to be doing the right thing by the right people. Even if you don't feel as though you're 'smashing it', you can go home knowing that someone who sees a report that is the barometer of whether or not you are doing your job will not put the heat on you.

That's what I see with this group.

Most of them are absolutely bereft of confidence, and it's possible that it's because they are not being played to their strengths, and are getting instruction from a nice person who seems to become more reactive, and less confident in his own plans, with each year he is in the job.
 
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