Autopsy What just happened? A draw???

jackcass

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I don't think a lot of David King, however, I think he was spot on this week. The Pies need to get the best available defensive assistant coach in the game. Adelaide aren't the first club to easily score against us with forwards finding plenty of space. Our defenders are very slow to react and get into position when the opposition runs it out.

Are our defenders just too aggressive moving forward? Are they just too slow in getting back into position?

This is a real issue and until this is sorted out other teams will continue to kick multiple goals in succession.

David King always looks for something simple and tries to complicate it throwing a heap of stats around. Our defence was no better or worse than Adelaide's. Can make the same observation about every team in some game this year. Our issue is conversion of opportunities. Adelaide average 62% goals from scoring shots, we average 54%. And that doesn't even factor in the OOF's or the R50's.
 

westozpie

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David King always looks for something simple and tries to complicate it throwing a heap of stats around. Our defence was no better or worse than Adelaide's. Can make the same observation about every team in some game this year. Our issue is conversion of opportunities. Adelaide average 62% goals from scoring shots, we average 54%. And that doesn't even factor in the OOF's or the R50's.
100% correct
 
Aug 29, 2005
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Well this is boring....how many pages did the draw analysis after the 2010 GF Draw take up?
We drew with the number 1 team on the ladder....move on?

Im sure if the team blew a 50 point lead in a GF and drew, with so many mistakes in the dying minute while 6 points up you would of seen a huge amount of analysis on it.
Blair taking on half a team htb, then Langdon kickout into the Blair/Degoey non contest.
 
Jun 4, 2005
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This re telling of history to the benefit of Bucks is just astounding. The list Shaw had was absolutely putrid, and injury riddled. We've never had a worst list than the 99 list.

The club was a ******* basket case in the late 90's. Bucks got hand gifted a god damn Ferrari with all the support he needed. A club with money, members and support staff coming out its ears and he completely ****** it.
Not going to bother with your bile.

But you raise a couple of interesting points re the list...although injury riddled surely refers to Buckley's tenure!!

In 99 we had the Rocca Bros as established KPFs, now we have Moore and J.White. In 99 we also had a couple of handy young kids up forward in Tarrant and N.Davis.

Down back we had Presti, Mal Michael and Schauble good strong KPs. Burns and Lockyer were used across HB and were solid. We now have Reid who doesn't even play back anymore, and guys like Goldsack and Dunne as our KPDs.

Give me the 99 forwards and backs everyday of the week!!

In 99 we had Buckley, P.Williams as our gun mids but then it trailed away with guys like Burns still across HB or aging premiership heroes like G.Brown, Crosisca...our mids are much better today. Which is partly a reflection of the change in game styles.

99 list wasn't horrific, especially not bad enough to be 1-10 at half way mark. The club was just a shambles. No coach stays when you have a club 1-10 at half way in your 4th season.

The other point being people continue to massively overplay what he took over. It was a group that had been up for a long time, plenty of key players coming to the end.

And since that time the club hasn't supported the coach. We no longer spend the most on our football department, we have cut back the resources we spend to fit under the cap. We have rubbish continuity in the football department, six managers in six years...we again are a poorly run football club.

If Buckley stays or goes, we need to actually support our coach better. Pay over the cap, who cares if we get taxed heavily. Get a consistent football manager in to provide a clear vision. Make the senior men's team the focus of the club again...instead of trying to build the brand and expanding into Netball, Women's and all the other auxiliary pursuits.
 
Aug 29, 2005
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Ploise explain....

Our recent form includes a good half a quarter against WCE and a good half against the Crows....I'm trying to find all these other good performances we've had.

We really haven't put together a full 4 quarter effort all year, maybe the Sydney game was as close as we got from memory, when Sydney were in the middle of a poor period - even the Brisbane we were terrible for large periods.

We've been horribly inconsistent, not only for the year, but for games, even halves and quarters of games.

I agree we've been in most games, built around manic pressure rather than skill, but we've played some really horrible footy at times.

Vs the Swans we only won the 1st quarter lost every quarter there after.

It seems when teams adjust there game plan to counter our high press we get opened up far too easily.
Clubs put an extra behind the ball then get a player or two to hang back in their fwd half waiting for a quick transition and easy goals. Buckley struggles to counter this with the way he wants us to play.
Teams have increased accuracy vs us because we give them increased easy shots on goal.
 
In 99 we had the Rocca Bros as established KPFs, now we have Moore and J.White. In 99 we also had a couple of handy young kids up forward in Tarrant and N.Davis.

Down back we had Presti, Mal Michael and Schauble good strong KPs. Burns and Lockyer were used across HB and were solid. We now have Reid who doesn't even play back anymore, and guys like Goldsack and Dunne as our KPDs.

Give me the 99 forwards and backs everyday of the week!!

Sav's knee at that point was so bad he was half the player he used to be. Anthony played as a utility that year.

Presti 99 version wasn't that great. We had some monster scores kicked against us by forwards. By the end of the year we were playing Michael as a forward. Schauble was serviceable but only managed 13 games.

The problem was the ruck in 1999.
 

Countrypie

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Sav's knee at that point was so bad he was half the player he used to be. Anthony played as a utility that year.

Presti 99 version wasn't that great. We had some monster scores kicked against us by forwards. By the end of the year we were playing Michael as a forward. Schauble was serviceable but only managed 13 games.

The problem was the ruck in 1999.
And yet he went and gave 4 years great service at North
 

Axl the great

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Happy for you to cite the posts where I've band aided over our form of the last few years. Also happy for you to show me the team that hasn't suffered momentum swings just to highlight how we go to water any more or less than any other side. Our issue is an inability to make the most of the opportunities we generate, not a failure to generate them. That we can generate them says that we do anything but "go to water" any more than Adelaide do or did in the 1st half.

Did not mean or imply you at all, I just think the problems with the way the team is prepared and coached is at a level where it is unacceptable yet the hope and ray of light appears every now and then on the back of good performance only for our issues to be exposed shortly after.
We do go to water when real pressure is applied and we are the hunted during a game, we become a laughable mess and bordering on unwatchable, it is a complete breakdown as opposed to managing to fight through it.
I judge it this way because I rate the list and the team as top 8 quality and have done for a few years and in my opinion we under achieve severely compared to some who think we perform about par for where we are at.
 

mike123

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Clearly reactionary posts to a disappointing end result. I know it's the Collingwood board thanks but the comparison was to illustrate the nitpicking nature of an 'error' that gets made all the time and isn't worth the furore it's created.


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It wouldn't have created any furore if posters just accepted he made an error and moved on.


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mike123

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Rather than rely on a few freeze frames, go and watch that whole play again. Moore actually runs from about 40m directly in front through the place Langdon kicked to, out to about 60-65m. He ran to where a kick from the top of the square would land, not a kick from the goal line. His positioning was poor. Langdon's kick was fine, perfectly split the defensive zone the Crows had set up. People expecting 60-65m pinpoint passes are just being unrealistic in their expectations.

All Langdon had to do was kick it 5 to 10 metres to the left. Nothing unrealistic in our expectations. No said he had to pin point a pass just put to Moore's advantage so he can make a contest, stop comming up with straw man to defend Langdon's mistake.


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Countrypie

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I just watched the 3rd quarter again.
We actually stopped the run and had a solid 5 minute period jsutbefore 3/4 time. Several shots on goal would have basically sealed thegame during that time. Darcy on the run from 30 and missing was crtical. Well's hail mary snap hit the post and we looked OK. We were still 29 up with uder 2 minutes left in the quarter.
Then with 90 seconds left Wells made his only mistake for the day he looked twice over his left shoulder and didn't take a shot then tried to pass 35m backwards to Shaz and didn't hit him. The ball bobbles around for a while then Adelaide win the clearence run it down and kick a goal after some horrendous clangers from backmen who should know better (Howe in particular). Seconds after the restart Walker drills a pass to Lynch who cuts the lead to 17. Those 2 minutes were critical. Everything went right for Adelaide in those two minutes - ball bounces, half fumbles that came back to them, Wells' missing the pass - everything.
It's a wonder we escaped with a draw
 
Aug 29, 2005
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I just watched the 3rd quarter again.
We actually stopped the run and had a solid 5 minute period jsutbefore 3/4 time. Several shots on goal would have basically sealed thegame during that time. Darcy on the run from 30 and missing was crtical. Well's hail mary snap hit the post and we looked OK. We were still 29 up with uder 2 minutes left in the quarter.
Then with 90 seconds left Wells made his only mistake for the day he looked twice over his left shoulder and didn't take a shot then tried to pass 35m backwards to Shaz and didn't hit him. The ball bobbles around for a while then Adelaide win the clearence run it down and kick a goal after some horrendous clangers from backmen who should know better (Howe in particular). Seconds after the restart Walker drills a pass to Lynch who cuts the lead to 17. Those 2 minutes were critical. Everything went right for Adelaide in those two minutes - ball bounces, half fumbles that came back to them, Wells' missing the pass - everything.
It's a wonder we escaped with a draw

In the 3rd quarter is where the bulk of our lead was eroded, too much lairising and players playing "selfish footy". Degoey and Treloar 2 players who come to mind who ignored team mates in better positions only to then miss the shot on the run. Could of held or increased our lead.
 

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the biggest choke in 125 years
Beg your pardon?

Please, as painful as it still is, the 1970 Grand Final.

Regardless of people's Buckley fetishes, this game wasn't a loss even, reagrdless NOTHING but NOTHING compares to that day in 1970.

As Apu would say in the Simpsons "please, come again"
 

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I never felt we had the Game Won even when we where 8 Goals Up
But you're a bit of a footy pessimist.

But it's great you don't think the game is over, it should always be like that. Don't give them a crumb.
 

Countrypie

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In the 3rd quarter is where the bulk of our lead was eroded, too much lairising and players playing "selfish footy". Degoey and Treloar 2 players who come to mind who ignored team mates in better positions only to then miss the shot on the run. Could of held or increased our lead.
Yeh - I thought on the day it was more like they were trying to deliver the knock out punch and just got caught out for some coolness under pressure. De Goey was the other one that really should have nailed the door shut. Just little errors by themselves hardly noticeable against a team with a sniff deadly
 

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Its all right for Hawthorn to be 45 plus up and lose earlier in the year, or Richmond to lose the unlosable (twice) and ditto the Saints last week, probably others I have forgotten about. But when we draw we should sack half the team and all the coaches.
 
Aug 29, 2005
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Yeh - I thought on the day it was more like they were trying to deliver the knock out punch and just got caught out for some coolness under pressure. De Goey was the other one that really should have nailed the door shut. Just little errors by themselves hardly noticeable against a team with a sniff deadly

Degoey ignored Treloar feigned a handball to him and baulked the crow then missed the running goal.

Was within minutes and this time the roles reversed Trelaor looked at Degoey alone inside the f50 and ignored him baulked a crow and missed the goal.
 
Aug 29, 2005
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Its all right for Hawthorn to be 45 plus up and lose earlier in the year, or Richmond to lose the unlosable (twice) and ditto the Saints last week, probably others I have forgotten about. But when we draw we should sack half the team and all the coaches.

Dunno about the rest of the magpie brethren but the other teams can do as they plz if they want to blow a lead or lose an unlosable, all power to them...o_O
 

Robroy22

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Im sure if the team blew a 50 point lead in a GF and drew, with so many mistakes in the dying minute while 6 points up you would of seen a huge amount of analysis on it.
Blair taking on half a team htb, then Langdon kickout into the Blair/Degoey non contest.




Actually Loks I was there in 1970 when we lost from 44 points up at half time. Analysis still lingers on that one! But as trite as it might sound, all the analysis in the world can't ever change the result. I'm sure the people who count will try to ensure that our players learn from their mistakes, but supporters going over it and over it....only serves to depress and to denigrate.

Being there in '58 when we won the un-winnable flag probably showed me that any team can win in the big game. Congratulate the winners, accept the decisions and move on. Its a great sport.
 
Aug 29, 2005
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Actually Loks I was there in 1970 when we lost from 44 points up at half time. Analysis still lingers on that one! But as trite as it might sound, all the analysis in the world can't ever change the result. I'm sure the people who count will try to ensure that our players learn from their mistakes, but supporters going over it and over it....only serves to depress and to denigrate.

Being there in '58 when we won the un-winnable flag probably showed me that any team can win in the big game. Congratulate the winners, accept the decisions and move on. Its a great sport.

It is but if we took your advice this place would be pretty boring and likely non existent. Not to sound trite but on discussion forums we discuss things, the good and the bad.

Nothing makes the good times sweeter then living through the bad.
 

Robroy22

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It is but if we took your advice this place would be pretty boring and likely non existent. Not to sound trite but on discussion forums we discuss things, the good and the bad.

Nothing makes the good times sweeter then living through the bad.


I totally agree with your last line!
And if going round in circles "discussing" dead results is what brings you joy...each to their own I say.
I hope you enjoy discussing the good stuff just as much...you DO seem to strike me as a glass half full kinda guy.
 

jackcass

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All Langdon had to do was kick it 5 to 10 metres to the left. Nothing unrealistic in our expectations. No said he had to pin point a pass just put to Moore's advantage so he can make a contest, stop comming up with straw man to defend Langdon's mistake.


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Happy for you to hold that view. No straw man involved, the kick was fine. Very few players in the league could pinpoint the sort of 55-60m pass you're advocating with any degree of certainty from the goal line with a man on the mark a couple of meters ahead of them. More often than not those types of kicks are made to look better than they are because the target reads the flight of the ball and moves to it, or they skew of the side of the boot and sail OOF. Langdon kicked to the right spot, Moore even ran right through there. At this stage it's a moot point, I'm moving on happy in my opinion.
 
Sep 11, 2006
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I respect your position, but respectfully disagree.

We actually haven't been that competitive in a lot of games.

We were never in really close to winning against:-

- Dogs
- Richmond
- St. Kilda
- Essendon x 2
- Carlton
- Port
- Hawks (2nd game)

We were pretty ordinary in some of our wins (Brisbane, Hawks (1st), WCE)

There were also really poor periods against Melbourne and the Crows obviously.

Our best overall efforts were against GWS, Cats and Swans...who ironically are three of the better teams.

It obviously hasn't all been bad, but we've been bad more than we have been good.

If this was a school report card, we'd really be a C-, which is enough hardly running home to mum and dad bragging.

To me, not having another available experienced coach, should not be a reason to keep a bad coach.


Wrong. We should have beaten both Richmond and Western Bulldogs.
 
Sep 11, 2006
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This re telling of history to the benefit of Bucks is just astounding. The list Shaw had was absolutely putrid, and injury riddled. We've never had a worst list than the 99 list.

Bucks has consistently led the team down the ladder. A team with a top 8 calibre list. Some seasons it was at least a top 6 list.

We just blew a 50 point lead, the biggest choke in 125 years and your gonna stick the knife into Shaw?

The club was a ******* basket case in the late 90's. Bucks got hand gifted a god damn Ferrari with all the support he needed. A club with money, members and support staff coming out its ears and he completely ****** it.

Bucks is pure an simple like the spoilt first born child of rich parents that gets every thing he asks for, gets a lambagini for his 18th and writes it off 2 weeks later and gives zero shits.

He never earned the right to be the coach. He was never qualified to be coach. He never should have been coach.

He shat all over the legacy of the 2010 playing list with his BS about selfish players this selfish players that. Well you got what ya ask for Bucks, a team with zero personality, no heart and no character... and how'd that work out for us???

And now he wants another extension??? GTFOH. This guy is not a Collingwood man. He is his own man, and all about what's best for himself and his deluded ego and his ever fading legacy

Thanks Clokey.
 
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